ABC AUSTRALIA,Wednesday, 12 October , 2005 12:21:00
US official pushes for JI ban
The World Today - Wednesday, 12 October , 2005 12:21:00
Reporter: Nick McKenzie
ELEANOR HALL: Memorial services are being held across Australia and in Bali today
to mark the third anniversary of the first Bali bombings.
But as the Foreign Minister attended a service in Kuta, a senior US anti-terrorism
official was making comments at odds with Australia's position on the banning of
Jemaah Islamiah by Indonesia.
While the Federal Government argues banning JI would be a largely symbolic move,
the Under Secretary of Terrorism and Financial Crimes in the United States Treasury
Department has told The World Today that a ban would have a significant effect and
should be put in place immediately.
From Canberra Nick McKenzie reports.
NICK MCKENZIE: Stuart Levey is the Under Secretary of Terrorism and Financial
Crimes at the Department of Treasury in the United States, one of the agencies
behind the US's listing of groups as terrorist organisations, a move which effectively
outlaws them.
STUART LEVEY: When organisations are banned, those individuals have the… are no
longer able to travel, they're no longer able to conduct financial transactions. It can be
a debilitating sanctions regime.
NICK MCKENZIE: The Federal Government says a decision by Indonesia to outlaw JI
- whose members were behind the 2002 Bali bombings and are also believed to be
behind the latest attacks, would be more of a symbolic move, and John Howard says
it would not make an enormous difference.
What do you say to people who say banning or proscribing Jemaah Islamiah actually
Indonesia, by the Indonesian Government, won't make an enormous difference?
STUART LEVEY: Well I think that banning Jemaah Islamiah by the Indonesian
Government would make a significant difference. First of all, it's anomalous that they
haven't done so.
Indonesia was one of the co-sponsors of the designation of Jemaah Islamiah in the
United Nations, adding it to the list of organisations that is affiliated with al-Qaeda,
Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.
NICK MCKENZIE: That's the US Treasury's Terrorism and Financial Crimes Under
Secretary, Mr Levey, who says Indonesia should take immediate steps to outlaw JI.
STUART LEVEY: The number of lethal bombings that have already occurred is
enough reminder that this has to happen right away. There's no question about that.
NICK MCKENZIE: With the help of Australia, Indonesia has managed to arrest scores
of JI operatives, and a number of those directly involved with the first Bali bombings
have been given death sentences.
But Abu Bakar Bashir, the suspected spiritual head of JI, was given only 30 months
imprisonment for his connection to the 2002 attacks.
The Federal Government says what's more important than pushing Indonesia to
outlaw JI is strengthening the country's ability to identify those involved in terrorism,
and gather the evidence to successfully prosecute them.
But Stuart Levey says it's important Indonesia outlaws JI because criminal
prosecutions are often failing to deliver adequate results.
STUART LEVEY: It's particularly important to do the kinds of sanctioning that a ban
would represent, because the criminal sentences against the individuals who've been
associated with Jemaah Islamiah, who've committed very significant attacks, those
criminal sentences have not been particularly onerous and so the other types of
sanctions are even more important.
NICK MCKENZIE: Australia, the United States and the United Nations have all listed
JI as a banned organisation. When a country proscribes a group as a terrorist
organisation, it makes it illegal to be a member of it, to do business with it, or support
it.
The Federal Government says existing anti-terror laws in Indonesia ensure that
anyone actually involved in such activities can already be dealt with.
The World Today asked Stuart Levey if listing JI as a terror organisation would provide
a further moral and legal framework to deal with the group.
STUART LEVEY: That's absolutely the case. It's anomalous right now as I indicated
that the Indonesian Government was one of the governments that co-sponsored the
designation of Jemaah Islamiah in the United Nations. But as it stands right now, it's
not a crime to be a member of Jemaah Islamiah in Indonesia. And that would be a
significant difference and that would be an excellent step forward if that were to occur.
NICK MCKENZIE: There is a view that the Indonesians banning Jemaah Islamiah is
difficult because the word itself broadly means Islamic community. Do you see that
as being a problem?
STUART LEVEY: I have heard that point made. On the other hand I think the
organisation is already designated by the United Nations, with the support of the
Indonesians under this name, Jemaah Islamiah. So it seems to me that there is a
way around this problem and that people can understand that whatever name this
group has taken for itself, it is a terrorist organisation.
If there are challenges that the Indonesians have to work through in order to get that
done, I certainly understand that, but this is a real threat and every appropriate action
has to be taken.
ELEANOR HALL: Stuart Levey is the Under Secretary of Terrorism and Financial
Crimes at the Department of Treasury in the United States. He was speaking there to
Nick McKenzie.
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