A QUESTION OF LEADERSHIP

 

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These are posts from a thread at Voted Off that I started.  You will see that the very nature of this thread required feedback in order for me to demonstrate my point, so I kept the posts made by other but deleted their names (protect the innocent and all that).  Those posts are in italics.

 

This thread ran when there were seven players left in Survivor Amazon and it pointed to the winner.  This is not a coincidence as a similar analysis done in each Survivor (I’m writing this after Survivor Pearl Islands) would have pointed to the eventual winner six out of seven times (the exception was Vecepia), though admittedly it can be tough to make the connections through the heavily edited show. 

 

The point is that the players in the game should be able to identify who the favourite is to win and the last couple of seasons have shown that they are not very good at doing this.

 

04/15/03 09:54 AM

 

It's interesting how often similar patterns come up in this game. By this stage we always end up with a dominant alliance that is made up of either three or four players intending on taking each other into the final four. This alliance has always had one and only one leader, which is interesting as the game structure itself allows two people to enter the final stages of the game.

Leadership is a slippery concept in this game as often hiding behind the visible leaders are the invisible leaders, which is actually a very solid strategy for them (edited to add: so I will try and define what I mean by leadership). Leadership is not about deciding where the shelter should be built or how the food should be prepared or even about dictating voting strategy (oddly enough). It's about support. Who is the person that the others want to take into the final two? That is the person who is in the driver's seat. That is the person who, through whatever means, has earned the loyalty of their team mates. Let's look at previous dominant alliances.

Richard/Rudy/Kelly/Sue (though the inclusion of Kelly is a little dubious as she may not have even been in the final four except for immunity wins, but we'll leave her there). Who is the person the others wanted with them in the final two? Undoubtedly Richard.

Colby/Tina/Keith: Keith would have taken Tina. Colby took Tina. Tina was the leader.

Ethan/Lex/Tom/Kim: Oh, I know this one will start arguments but here it goes. Kim took Ethan. Tom showed his preference in his swan song vote when he wrote Lex. Whether he was with Lex at one point or not is now irrelevant. He would have taken Ethan in the end and I believe Lex himself would have taken Ethan. Ethan was the leader.

Neleh/Kathy/Paschel: Kathy tipped her hand when she voted Neleh at four. She would have taken Paschel and so would Neleh. Paschel was the leader.

Brian/Clay/Helen/Jan: Brian, beyond a doubt.

Now it appears (at least currently) that the dominant alliance is Jenna/Heidi/Alex/Rob, though personally I think Rob is not in the others' final four plans so he likely should be taken out, but we'll leave him in for now. Okay, if each were given the choice as to who they would take into the final two of the folks in their alliance, who would they take? Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the strategically best decision (we all know Colby didn't make the strategically best decision - that's why Tina was the leader), just who would they take? That will point to our current leader.

Thoughts?

H.C.

"You've got to play this game with fear and arrogance."

-Crash Davis in Bull Durham

Edited by HCIsland (04/15/03 01:17 PM)

04/15/03 09:58 AM

 

Heidi would take Jenna.

After seeing Alex and Jenna's date, I think he too would take Jenna.

I am not sure whether Jenna would take heidi or Alex, but that seems to be a moot point, as Jenna would be the leader.

04/15/03 10:17 AM

 

I agree with erika... Heidi & Alex would both pick Jenna.

I would think Rob would take Heidi with him... I don't see him picking Jenna... but that wouldn't matter... as he's odd man out.

04/15/03 10:34 AM

 

In reply to:



Leadership is not about deciding where the shelter should be built or how the food should be prepared or even about dictating voting strategy (oddly enough). It's about support. Who is the person that the others want to take into the final two. That is the person who is in the driver's seat.



what is the reasoning behind this? no serious player wants to take anyone but the person who is most beatable into the final two with them. obvious examples: Richard taking KellyW instead of Rudy (by throwing the final challenge, of course), and Brian taking Clay, easily the least likable of Chuay Gahn's five players.

by your definition, KellyW and Clay were then the leaders of S1 and S5!

your definition of "leadership" not being about dictating voting strategy is -factually- incorrect, if you accept the dictionary definitions of "leader":
- a person who has commanding authority or influence
- a first or principal performer of a group

that's obviously not KellyW or Clay, it's Richard and Brian. and from S2, all evidence (in-show, post-show) says clearly that Tina and Colby made the boot decisions (not the -only- way of exerting influence, showing authority, or being "prinicipal", but by far the most important in Survivor) together and were thus the leaders. from S3, all evidence clearly shows that Lex and Tom jointly made the boot decisions, with Ethan coming in only for a 3rd opinion.

S4 didn't have a leader, period. no single person satisfies either of the dictionary definitions of "leader" given above.

in S6, the leaders have so far been Rob, Deena, and Jenna. there will most likely be no single leader in S6; it's a situation similar to S4.

when "leadership" is discussed, and "leader" has a dictionary definition that connects directly to Survivor, and when there is plenty of factual evidence to show who the leaders of each season were, there's no way to arrive at any conclusion other than the above. unless, of course, i missed some factual evidence.

04/15/03 10:42 AM

 

Alex would take Jenna.
Heidi would take Jenna.
Rob would take Heidi or Jenna.
Jenna would take Heidi.

Jenna is the leader with Heidi as second in command.

04/15/03 11:53 AM

 

I'm not convinced the A/R/J/H alliance is solid. And, its not about support for the final two, its who you think you can beat. In that case, I think anyone would want Matthew since they've all expressed what a fruitcake they think he is.

Jenna would pick Heidi and vice versa for the wrong reasons: they're buddies. Same with Alex choosing either Heidi or Jenna: attraction. For these reasons, I think the speculation that Rob will jump ship is correct -- he's not going farther than final 4 with the group he's in, and I think he can manage to at least final 3 if he jumps ship.

04/15/03 12:14 PM

 

In reply to:



And, its not about support for the final two, its who you think you can beat.



As I've mentioned, I'm not asking what you think they should do, or how you think this will play out. Just who will support who. The history of this show seems to indicate that who people support and what is in their best interest are completely different animals.

I tend to agree with most folks here though. I think the support is tending towards Jenna.

H.C.

"You've got to play this game with fear and arrogance."

-Crash Davis in Bull Durham

04/15/03 05:31 PM

 

Matt is the leader. He's made them all think he's nuts and totally beatable. They'll all want to be with him in the final two. Surprise, Matt wins.

*said half tongue in cheek and half seriously.*

04/15/03 07:24 PM

 

It's certainly not beyond the realm or reason.

I'm really not trying to put together who is the most likely to win or anything, just trying on a slightly different way of looking at things partially inspired by this article. I've always felt that you can't really talk about what an individual player should or should not do until you've defined their position in the game.

For me, at the top of the Survivor food chain was always two people whom I called the dominant pair, but recently I've been leaning more to the feeling that these pairs are never equal and at the very top is always one player. I used the word leader above, but that might have been an ill chosen word. Using the chain anology that Rob gave last week, it's who's at the front of the chain whether they consciously put themselves there or not.

With your help, the way I see it right now is like this.

#1: Jenna
#2: Heidi (maybe Alex)
#3: Alex (or Heidi)
#4: Rob (though I doubt the top three have plans for Rob to occupy this position for long. Likely they see Butch eventually occupying this spot.

And then there's the rest: Christy, Matt and Butch. I don't really see the sense of putting these in any order but rather think of them as a separate group of equals. This doesn't necessarily mean their allied. Of course, it doesn't mean their not either.

Does this mean Jenna has the best shot at winning? Maybe. Certainly if this game progresses along more or less standard lines like 1, 2, 3, and 5 did than yes, Jeanna likely wins, but every indication this season is that things are more like Marquesas, so things are certainly still very much up in the air. Perhaps next time this list will be turned completely upside down, but right now this seems to be the hierarchy.

H.C.

"You've got to play this game with fear and arrogance."

-Crash Davis in Bull Durham

05/13/03 11:11 AM

 

A completely self serving bump.

It is interesting though.

H.C.

"You've got to play this game with fear and arrogance."

-Crash Davis in Bull Durham

05/13/03 12:57 PM

 

But why did you put Jenna first in that alliance?

05/13/03 01:15 PM

 

I didn't (though I would have). The folks in this thread did.

I asked the question who supported who in the dominant alliance and the arrows pointed to Jenna. Now this was pretty much luck this time because obviously if Jenna didn't win the last two challenges she would have been gone, though I do think that if Rob had not turned on Alex, Heidi and Jenna, Jenna may have been our leading candidate to win anyway.

Maybe it was fate.

H.C.

"You've got to play this game with fear and arrogance."

-Crash Davis in Bull Durham

 

Now I’ll be the first to admit that defining support as the person that you would take into the final two is not quite correct, though often it is.  I just wanted to simplify it for purposes of this thread.  It is true, though, that players tend to drift towards one player to draw support from and to support in turn more than the others and it is really who that person is that I’m talking about.

 

A good place to do this for the first time is when there are nine players left.  This is the point in the game that I like to call the beginning of the middle-game and players will naturally find themselves in one of three groups: dominant alliance, weaker alliance and weaker tribe.  Support, of course, is liable to change and the dynamics of the game with it.  I think a better way is to draw a diagram, connecting players with arrows, while at the same time splitting them into the three groups.  I’ve taken the liberty of doing this for each season.  I’ll apologize in advance for anyone having bad Venn Diagram flashbacks from school.

 

 

Borneo:

 

Although Sean was voting alphabetically, he never did vote for his own tribe, showing he did have loyalty to the Tagi alliance, and the later stages of the game as well as his final jury vote showed that this loyalty tended towards Richard, putting Richard on top of the heap.  This hardly left Kelly and Sue defenseless though, as they could have easily gotten support from the weaker tribe to remove Richard at a later stage, but they never did.  In the end, the mutual support between Kelly and Sue broke down, leaving Richard, without argument, in the cat-bird seat.

 

Austraila:

 

Keith’s support of Tina was the difference here.  What was especially done well was how Tina and company dismantled the opposing pairs, especially when it came to removing players, like Nick, Amber and Roger, that may have been more drawn to Colby than to Tina.

Africa:

 

Kelly’s support over Kim Johnson, and in turn Ethan, gives Ethan a slight advantage over Lex here, but of course Kelly was the next to go, so it never factored in.  What definitely did factor in however was Lex’s increasing paranoia that eventually even led him to question Tom’s loyalty.  By the final four, Tom was no longer supporting Lex, he was supporting Ethan putting Ethan in the definite driver’s seat.

Marquesas:

 

I always considered Zoe’s support to this four person alliance just one of convenience and, I think, rather weak.  Before the swap, she seemed closer to the trio in the weaker alliance and I always thought they could have made better use of her, especially Kathy.

 

The key thing to notice here is that Paschel has almost as much support as John, the current leader.  All he had to do was realize it, and realize it he did as they pulled in Sean and Vecepia and systematically disposed of the former dominant four.  All through the rest of this game, Paschel was the definite front runner until Vecepia won immunity at four and forced a tie vote.  In a new tie breaking format, Paschel went even though he had no votes on him what-so-ever.  No one ever said there were any guarantees in this game.

Thailand:

 

Through whatever methods, Brian and Penny were elected the unquestioned god and goddess of their respective tribes.  Despite the obvious foolishness of the situation, the loyalty lines never faltered and Brian slept-walked his way into the final two.

Amazon

 

Definitely the most complicated situation as the combination of all male and all female tribes with a pre-merge swap, collapsed many of the tribal loyalties.  Jenna has the edge here because of the strong mutual support between her and Heidi (unusually, the only such pairing in this game) and the chain of support coming from Alex.  What is really interesting is the support that is going to Rob, but that he is not reciprocating.  I believe he thought he had that support from Alex, but it should have been fairly obvious to him that this was not the case.  Eventually Alex let Rob know exactly where he stood in the dominant alliance, but by then Deena was already gone.  Rob did turn the table on Alex and then Heidi, but Matt (perhaps taking his cue from Rob himself) no longer was loyal to Rob and began playing solo.  Ironically enough, the game went to Jenna, the person originally in the cat-bird seat.  I guess this should be a lesson that you shouldn’t expect loyalty if you are not prepared to give it.

Pearl Islands:

 

Ah, the symmetry.  Christa and Burton in equal positions with Darah and Tijuana forced to make the call between them.  After Ryan went, they chose Burton and Jon, and Rupert was gone, followed by Tijuana herself and then Christa.  You would think that Burton would have had this game wrapped up but no.  He and Jon figured Lillian would be a good next target and when she began to sense the distance growing between her and Burton, her support understandably shifted over to Sandra, putting Sandra into the driver’s seat and the eventual win.

Quite reminiscent of of Thailand, but The origins of this is a bit different. The original alliance appeared to be Rob, Amber and Tom, but when Jenna and Rupert came over when their own tribe was dissolved, Rob used the opportunity to make a final four deal with them. A rather strange thing to do in normal circumstances, but with these folks being friends before hand, this was a rather strange game. The apparent spark for this decision was a rumored pre-game pact between Lex and Tom that threw doubt into Rob's mind as to where Tom stood. The Alicia link began when Amber was the only player to go to the other tribe in a swap. Figuring she was gone, Alicia used the opportunity to nose into Rob's alliance. Perhaps not a bad idea, but when Amber came back I really cannot understand how Alicia could possibly believe her alliance with Rob was going to hold true. Personally, I don't think she did and was likely just planning on playing the hurt diva roll.

This really brings up a tough question. Having so many support lines coming your way seems a great thing at first, but eventually most of those lines have to be severed. People seem to accept third and fourth rolls, but often get pretty angry when they suddenly find out they are fifth or sixth. Brian also almost lost this game to Clay, a completely lazy and antagonistic person around the camp. The thing is, rebuffing these players fawning for affection is hardly a more attractive alternative. Can you imagine someone coming up to you for a final two deal and you saying, "naw, I see you more going at six." I can't imagine how you wouldn't have just dropped your life expectancy. It's a tough problem and I really don't have an answer.