The Pyes in England

and Wales

Earl and Elizabeth, May 2000

The map, to the left, of England, Scotland and Wales, is shown to help orient you to the locations of areas that we visited. We flew into Manchester and drove to the area knows as The Marches where we stayed about ten days. We ended our trip with a one- week stay near Lancaster. We then returned to Manchester for our flight home to California.

The Marches is a term that refers to the border areas England and Wales. It also is used to refer to the counties (or shires) along that border, e.g., Shropshire, Herefordshire, Glouchestershire, south and Cheshire, north. We visited three counties in The Marches, Shropshire and Herefordshire, in England, and Powys, in Wales.

It is in these areas that the cultures of Wales and England intermingle. It is here that you find lush mountains and fertile valleys where rivers, such as the Severn, the Corve, the Teme, the Dore and the Wye flow. These rivers flow roughly east and west meandering across the Welsh border, a border which itself once meandered with the ebb and flow of battle.

It is here, in The Marches, that you find the Severn Valley, known as the “Vale of Powys” in Wales. It is here that you may hear a strange tongue for in Wales you will find two languages taught in schools and used in practice: English and Welsh.

It is here that you will find old and beautiful cathedrals and churches where the clergy fought, and still fight, for men’s souls. And it is here that you will find castles, many now in ruins, where the English fought the raiding Welsh, sometimes the Scots and, indeed, even among themselves.

MANCHESTER and ONWARD:

We flew into Manchester. We had reservations at several Bed and Breakfasts (B&B) that we had made over the Internet before we left. We wanted to stay at some older places, more or less out in the rural areas. We had reserved a car before leaving. We rented that car in Manchester upon our arrival. That was our first mistake.

Driving on the left side was not the problem. That seemed to come sort of naturally. Driving on the Motorway was fine...just like our Interstates. However, driving on the lesser roads, particularly the rural roads, was not OK. It was “white knuckles” all the way. There virtually are no signs. The roads seemed to be very narrow. Had they asked, we would have designated them as "one-way". People park illegally in your "lane" and you are suppose to be able to drive and not hit oncoming cars. The beautiful hedgerows, become tunnels and you can't see who’s coming around the corner. There are generally no shoulders, although there may be curbs (kerbs in England) to prevent you from even thinking about using any of the grass as shoulders. There are very few signs and you have no idea where you are, what road you are on, etc. It was raining or overcast and we could not even tell what direction that we were going. It took us all day (from 8:00 AM until dusk) to go approximately 60 miles from Manchester to Shrewsbury, where we had reservations. We were lost most of the time.

Shropshire Area: Elizabeth’s maternal surname is Smith, her fraternal surname is Roberts. Shropshire is where many of the Roberts family lived over previous centuries. Some close relatives still live there.

Hours, it seemed, were spent circling on the “roundabouts”. Roundabouts are clever devices, with no stop signs or signal lights, which permit British drivers to enter (what would be a four-way stop intersection to us) and generally not have to stop. They are ingenious, making it very easy to make U-turns, etc. However, to most Americans, the roundabouts are simply devilish devices designed to make your head swim.

But we made it to our B&B, however just before they turned out the lights!

SHREWSBURY , The county seat of Shropshire and Roberts’ country:

We stayed our first three nights at an old chapel that had been converted to a B&B. This was about 10 or so miles outside of Shrewsbury. While there we visited with Liz's relatives. Her paternal grandfather, Joshua Roberts, was a minister and missionary migrating to Canada, Michigan and Virginia. He was born in Minsterley a few miles southwest of Shrewsbury.

Members of the Roberts family lived in the hamlets of Wilmington and Rorrington for many centuries. During the 1700 and 1800’s, they spread to the villages of Chirbury and Minsterley and on to the town of Shrewsbury, all of which are in the county of Shropshire, adjacent to the Welsh border. Shrewsbury is the picturesque, medieval town, which is the home of Brother Cadfael (Ellis Peter’s chronicles of the twelfth century detective-monk) and the location of the 1984 filming of Dicken’s “A Christmas Carol”.

Liz’s second cousin, and her son rescued and chauffeured us around the area and pointed out various family sites of interest. They took us across the Welsh border to visit the world famous terraced gardens at Powys Castle. Among the family places of interest which we saw were:

1. St. Michael the Archangel’s Church in Chirbury. The church dates from the twelfth century. In the front of the inside of the Church, there is a memorial tablet to George Roberts (1747- 1836) and other family members.

2. (2.) At the Minsterley Church (Holy Trinity Parish Church), we found the gravesite of Liz’s great, grandfather Thomas Roberts. Members of the family buried there go back to great, great, great Grandfather Thomas (b. 1752).

3. Across the street from the Minsterley Church, about half of the main city block contains buildings which were Roberts’ residences and business establishments and where Liz’s cousin was born.

We spent the following day visiting with cousins from Shrewsbury. Liz’s cousin provided us with a chauffeured, narrative-tour of Shrewsbury. He pointed out Shrewsbury Abbey, Shrewsbury Castle, St. Chad’s, an Anglo-Saxon Church founded at the end of the eighth century and rebuilt in the eighteenth century; Shrewsbury School, high on the hill overlooking the River Severn, and the lovely garden at the Quarry and Dingle (a dingle is what we call a valley) across from St. Chad’s.

St. Chads is shown in the photo.

LUDLOW:

From Shrewsbury we moved on to Ludlow (in the southern part of Shropshire County) where we stayed for three days and explored Ludlow Castle, medieval Ludlow village, and its history. Although the castle is a ruin (roofs are gone for example), much of it is still standing. The picture at the left shows (look in the left part of photo) the entrance to the Great Hall (60 X 30 feet and rises two stories) which was used for formal festive occasions.

The round building to the right in the photo is The Chapel of St. Mary Magdalene. You can see its circular nave. It had a rectangular chancel (you can see Earl’s back as he stands in the entrance from the nave to the chancel). The chapel was probably built in the middle of the twelfth century as an imitation of the church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, which was erected (supposedly on the site of Christ’s tomb) in the mid-eleventh century. Only a few round churches have survived. Recall that St. Chad’s in Shrewsbury, (see the photo, above), has a round nave.

There is a great deal of history associated with the castle. The first wife of Henry VIII, Catherine

of Aragon, visited here with her first husband, Henry’s older brother, Prince Arthur. Arthur and Catherine had been married for only a few months when they were at Ludlow. Arthur was to be king but he got sick and died while at Ludlow. His brother Henry subsequently became King. Across the street from the Castle entrance is an old medieval house, Castle Lodge. It is still occupied. The ghost of Catherine of Aragon is said to still haunt Castle Lodge. We visited Castle Lodge but didn’t encounter Catherine’s Ghost. We did talk to the present owner (and resident) of Castle Lodge and discussed the unique wall paneling there. We negotiated with him about having him make us some replicas of the panels. They would be expensive. We are still talking.

The town of Ludlow hasn’t changed much over the many years. There used to be (and still is) a market area located across the street from the Castle gate and also in front of Castle Lodge. At one time it extended maybe 1000 feet from the castle. It is now a somewhat smaller area. Open markets were operating the three days that we were there. At the lower end of the medieval market area was a location called “The Bull Ring”. This is where cattle were sold. Although no cattle are sold there now and some of the open market area has been replaced with buildings, it is much the same and the location still has a street and area named “Bull Ring”.

There is an original, small two-story medieval building there that was built on the “Bull Ring”.

It once, during medieval times, housed a courtroom, where magistrates settled disputes. That building is shown, as it exists today, in the photo at the right.

Today, part of the building is occupied by a boutique, named PYE POWDER. This was an interesting name, we thought, since they had no powder for sale. We went in and inquired about the name. The name is a play on some French words, which were used in past, medieval days when this court had the reputation of handling cases so quickly that “justice” was done before the “powder (dust?) on your shoes could settle”.

HEREFORD – The County seat of Herefordshire and Pye country :

In the UK Hereford is pronounced “Hair-afford”, for cities and cattle, while in the US it is generally pronounced “Her-ford”, at least for cattle.

At this point we cancelled the remainder of our reservations at rural B&Bs. We were having entirely too many problems and too much frustration driving on the rural roads. We made a three-day reservation at a B&B in Hereford where we were within walking distance of the Cathedral, the office of County Records, Library etc. We did use the car to drive out to Much Dewchurch and Kilpeck, old "Pye-related" medieval villages.

Hereford Cathedral: This is a beautiful church! It is old with a lot of history. You would enjoy visiting it. They are refurbishing the exterior of the Lady Chapel (the main chapel) and it was fascinating seeing the stonework that they are doing. They are matching the stone and workmanship of the original. Although Pyes have been involved with the history of Hereford for hundreds of years, we found no records of Pyes buried there. Essentially, we did not have time to look. We did not inquire of the Cathedral records.

Records Office: The County maintains a records office where Earl spent a substantial part of two days. He looked at baptism, death,marriage, will and related records. He got some information that might prove to be useful later, but nothing immediately earthshaking.

Kilpeck: Kilpeck is an old medieval village about 8 miles or so from Hereford. There you find the ruins of Kilpeck Castle (once owned by Pyes) and Kilpeck Church. The photo below shows the ruins of the castle wall with a portion of a fireplace remaining. Another wall had the remains of an oven.

Kilpeck Castle sat upon an earthwork (manmade hill) about 70 feet above the surrounding plain. There are remains of two moats, the inner one surrounding the castle and dry. The other, located outside the outer, courtyard bailey, and now about twenty feet from the church. It had water standing in it and a large oak tree growing in it.

Kilpeck Church: Although frequently referred to as “The Kilpeck Church”, its official name is “The Parish Church of St. Mary and St. David”. The church was probably set inside of the castle grounds at one time. It is world famous, having been described as “one of the most perfect Norman village churches in England”. The pictures below were taken on a Friday. There was a steady stream of visitors. It is one of the very few existing churches in the world with well-maintained Norman architecture. It has a Romanesque three-cell plan that forms the basis of many churches that were to be built later. There are Pyes buried in the churchyard. The photo below #2, shows the south-door entrance that is almost under the bell tower (which cannot be seen for the trees). The photo below #1 is the other side of the church. Behind the church (viewing the bell tower as being at the front of the church) there is an open field now used as a horse pasture. This was the location of the old medieval village, and at one time an open market operated by the Pyes. Recent surveys suggest that old Roman ruins are underground in this field. No excavation has been done nor is one currently planned.

#1

#2

The picture above, is taken from the site of the castle-ruins looking across the inner moat, across a cemetery and across the outer moat to the church. The bell tower is barely visible through the trees.

The picture above, right is taken inside, from a small balcony under the bell tower and looks through the nave, the chancel and into the apse and alter.

Much Dewchurch: Much Dewchurch is another medieval village located about 5-6 miles south of Hereford and about 2 miles or so from Kilpeck. Here we find another parish church, named “St. David”, that saw many Pyes at church services for hundreds of years. The village name, Much Dewchurch, is derived from a Welsh name, e.g., “Dewi” is Welsh for “David”. It is a larger village than Kilpeck. Kilpeck's population is of the order of 100, while that of Much Dewchurch is about 570. St. David’s Church is somewhat larger than the church at Kilpeck. It is at St. David, in the village of Much Dewchurch, that you find the monument of Sir Walter Pye as well as the tomb of his son, Robert, both inside of the Church. There are other traces of Pye activity in and around the church

We were fortunate to arrive at the church when the sexton and his wife were preparing the church for Easter services. They were very helpful, full of information and stories. We could have stayed for days and enjoyed it. There is a lot more at the church at Much Dewchurch than the church at Kilpeck. However it is not as famous as Kilpeck, therefore does not attract the visitors that Kilpeck does.

The church at Much Dewchurch is old and of Norman architecture. However, its architecture has been changed, some would say "contaminated", by the addition of a large aisle with columns on one side. This provided enlargement, the type that you see in many churches built since then. It certainly expanded the church. However, it makes it less that a "pure Norman Church" which is important to students of architecture.

The tower is immense but with only a hint of a steeple. Catholic priests used to hide in it for days at a time during the years after the civil war (about 1640) when the Catholics were sorely hassled. Protestants harassed them even to the point that priests who said mass were killed. It is said that the priests even had a stove in the tower at one point. They apparently would stay there for days at a time.

The photo, above, left is the interior of St. David’s. The boldness of the arch leading into the chancel from the nave is characteristic of the Norman architecture. This tells us that the church is Norman and quite old. To the right of the arch is the memorial monument to Sir Walter and Lady Joanne Pye.

A larger, close-up photo is shown above, right.

We have visited many cathedrals in England. Most of them have monuments and memorials with burial-tombs inside the church. The monument for Sir Walter is unique and one of the grandest that we have seen. It is well worth a visit. It is now about 350 years old. It shows Sir Walter and his wife facing each other in prayer. They are about life size. Models of their children, each about 12 inches in height, are kneeling in prayer below the parents with the male children in a row on one side (left facing) and the female children in another row on the other side.

(Sons: John, James, Robert, Roger and Walter; Daughters: Mary, Frances, Elizabeth, Bridget, Joyce, Margaret and Ann) The children, too, are kneeling in prayer. The material of the monument appears to be marble and alabaster. To the right of the monument, against the inside wall of the church and out of sight, are the effigies of Sir Walter and his wife over their tomb. The photo at the lower left (courtesy of Willette Pye Wood) is of a painting of Sir Walter.

A curious question arises about the monument. The praying hands of all of the children, as well as the hands of the effigies of Sir Walter and his wife have been defaced; the hands no longer there. The answer, given to me by the wife of Sexton Priest, is that the forces of the Parliamentarians, sometimes called “the roundheads” ran amok (some say they were permitted, even encouraged, to run amok) in the churches, defacing monuments, etc.

It was the custom and hope to be buried in the churchyard or, indeed, inside the church if possible. If you had enough money, you generally could get a place inside the church. Sir Walter was one of the more affluent and influential people in Herefordshire area and indeed in England. He was wealthy. One historical note indicated that at one time he was the wealthiest man in England. It is not surprising that he has such a memorial in the church.

His position was “Attorney General”, appointed by the king. His job was to represent the King, collect taxes, etc., simply the King's man. He was paid well for his service, at one time some 25,000 Pounds Sterling per year. This was a tremendous amount of money in the mid-1600’s.

His funeral helmet still hangs over the memorial, never touched or even dusted since the funeral some 350 years ago.

The Mynde: Near Much Dewchurch, maybe a mile or so away, is the old Pye Manor house, called the Mynde (pronunciation rhymes with Wind; like “the wind blowing”). The word is a derivation of a Welsh word meaning mountain. The photo below is one taken a few years ago and was given to us by Willette Pye Wood. It is currently being renovated, we were told by a docent at Hereford Cathedral, with millions of dollars being spent. We were unable to go over and see it because of time constraints and because of heavy rain showers.

Also, the Sexton at Kilpeck church told us that The Mynde was all shrouded in plastic cover so that they could work on the exterior without rain damage. He implied that there wasn't too much to see at this time and we were unlikely to get a tour from the contractors. All in all, we didn't make it over there. It was good news to know that someone is renovating the Mynde. It had fallen into a sad state. It had been used to store grain in recent years. . Since we returned, we have been in touch with Flo Apy who visited The Mynde in early May. She indicates that there was no one home the day of her visit and that a plastic material covered some new construction.

We will tell you about our stay at Thurnham Hall, an old manor house that has been converted to time-share apartments. We have often thought about the potential that The Mynde has in this connection. Thurnham Hall was dilapidated and, like The Mynde, pretty much scheduled for destruction. This conversion of Thurnham Hall seems to have been quite successful. Could the Mynde lend itself to this concept? Although we are not the ones to take on such a project, we are the ones to offer encouragement, ideas, enthusiastic support, etc

THurnham Hall and Lancaster:

Our last week was spent in Lancaster at Thurnham Hall. Thurnham Hall is a converted manor house and is now time-share apartments. We traded one week of one of our California time-shares for a week there. Thurnham Hall has a lot of history, mostly related to the Daltons. The Daltons were wealthy, owned a lot of land in the area and had substantial income from the leasing of that land. John Dalton was once mayor of Lancaster. His portrait, those of his wife, Mary and of several daughters, now hang in the Lancaster City Museum. The photo to the below, left shows Thurnham Hall as it is today with the small chapel that was added in the mid-nineteenth century.

The picture to above, right shows Earl standing near the fireplace in the Great Hall. The fireplace is huge. Earl could have easily stood inside.

The manor house was started around 1150 on hundreds of acres of rolling farmland that the owners leased to tenants. The fortified manor house (note the arrow slits in the towers) served as an early warning station to warn Lancaster Castle, which is about 7-8 miles way, of pending invasions or other problems. Reception areas, restaurants, as well as some apartments are now in the main house. Several new buildings have been added that house apartments and utilities such as swimming pool, gymnasium, etc. More building is underway with much more planned.

In contrast to The Mynde, at Much Dewchurch, Thurnham Hall is well developed and appears to be a success. This leaves the impression that The Mynde might be ideal as a time-share. Time-shares do not seem as popular in the UK as they are in the US. However, they seem to be catching on in the UK.

If you go to Thurnham Hall, be sure to ask about the ghost that haunted one of the dining rooms. It took all of the tableware from the tables that had been set for the following day and placed them on the floor, leaving the table empty. We did not encounter the ghost. This is a second-hand story. Go there. See for yourself.

We enjoyed staying at Thurnham Hall and spent a lot of time looking at Lancaster history, architecture, etc. We drove to Lancaster from Hereford on the Motorway and had no problem there. We had been given excellent instructions on how to get to Thurnham Hall from the Motorway. However, as soon as we tried to go elsewhere, such as into Lancaster from Thurnham Hall, we immediately got lost. We could have taken a taxi into Lancaster. Thurnham Hall has mini-busses that would take us in. We returned the car and started using the trains and taxis. This is the way to go. You get around better and I am sure that you save a lot of money.

Return Home: Elizabeth & Earl back home

at Quail Runne, Oak Hills CA

We thoroughly enjoyed our trip. We admired the blue, rolling hills of Shropshire, as did Housman (Shropshire Lad). We marveled at the beauty of Hereford Cathedral and the character of Kilpeck Church. We treasure our memories of those who took us “off the street”, so to speak, and showed us sights that we would never have found alone.

We appreciated the gentle rain that was so persistent day after day, for we see far too little rain at home. We were stunned with the realization that we missed so much and feel a need to return.

Despite all the enjoyment that we had, we were glad to be home at Quail Runne. We marveled anew when we saw the first light of sunrise touch the tip of snow-covered Mt. San Antonio as the light spilled across the San Gabriel Mountains. We were delighted with the twinkling lights of cities on the desert floor as night settled. Even the normally aloof cats seemed happy to see us. Yes, we were glad to be home.

Write to us at: pepper@enchantedchile.com Web site: www.enchantedchile.com