Session Start: Tue Feb 10 17:36:04 1998
*** Now talking in #webdesign

<Zonie> /r ok for the one outside your site you will need the entire URL <A HREF="BOOKS.html">Reading tips</A>
<z-ro> Oh!  I went over to PSP User Group that Anna1 recommended and joined.  I am going to a meeting on Thursday.
<z-Granny-Wicked> what user group ro?
<Ghatten> Any questions?
<Zonie> >> z << did you get that above ?
<z-ro> There is a Paint Shop Pro <PSP> User Group in the Internet.  They are open to membership.  They meet once a week and do tutorials and stuff.  
<z-ro> Do you want me to get the address?
<z> thanks I am a dunce have you all marked the mid term
<Zonie> z use to be penny : ), did you get the info above about the outside URL ?
<z> yes Zonie thanks die you mark everything already
<z-Nan> lol Who
<WindSong> ghatten....Is there a trick to choosing colors?  I use the color charts to select text colors, etc.  But when they get on my page over the background they do not come out true.
<Zonie> >> z << your tables look good but I think I would align=left the descriptions, but is up to you : )
<Ghatten> The colors charts off the web or a chart in a book?
*  Ghatten the ones in the book NEVER look the same
<WindSong> Ghatten...the color charts off the web.
<Ghatten> ANY book
<WindSong> I think they get distorted by my background color....
<Ghatten> That's odd..if you are using the same codes they used to set them up they should look the same 
<z> if you align left it just flows right after the image . I know this is not perfect. I will try the 2cells concept for the image.
<Ghatten> The interaction might be the cause
<WindSong> I guess it is a matter of trial and error.
<Ghatten> There are several sites that offer the opportunity to check the colors together
<Ghatten> That's  the best way
<flamingo> Also, colors look different on different monitors
<Zonie> >> z-penny << you could add a blank cell <TD>&nbsp;</TD> between them
<WindSong> Yes, I have seen some of those sites....but they do not work on graphic backgrounds.....
<WindSong> flamingo...yes, and I have discovered they look different with different versions of browsers...
<Zonie> >> z-penny << and add as many &nbsp; as you like to get the distance you want like &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<Ghatten> Some actually do have the ability that I have seen
<z-penny> if and when I figure that out Zonie . You are ever so kind.
<WindSong> Ghatten, thanks!
<Ghatten> I am pretty sure at least one of the references does let me check on it BRB
<Who> What G says is true...
<z-penny> you will give up on me before I give up
<Who> i've used that site...but don't remember which one it was
* ** Ghatten is now known as Ghatten_afk
<Who> afk?
<Who> away from keyboard?
<z-WindSong> Thank you Ghatten!
<Ghatten> op me quick LOL
<Ghatten> This is the URL where you can plug in a back ground image to test
<Ghatten> http://www.sci.kun.nl/cgi-bin-thalia/color/compose
<z-WindSong> Ghatten....I will check it out!...*s*
<Ghatten> Did ya'll get that URL???????
<Granny-Wicked> yes, ghatten
<Ghatten> Also I have made little blocks of color in PSP and placed text on top in various colors to experiment
<Ghatten> Could do the same with a copy of the background image
<ro> How does one copy a URL from the editing screen here simply?
<Ghatten> Ro what IRC Program are you using?
<ro> mIRC
<z-WindSong> Ghatten...I just took a look at that page....seems interesting!
<ro> I really wish I would have taken the IRC class
<Ghatten> In mIRC I just copy from the page where the URL is and right mouse click in the box where I type messages---then I get a menu on which one of the options is to "paste"
<z-WindSong> I might be able to do that with PSP....haven't experimented with it enough yet.
<Zonie> In mIRC 5.^^ . . to copy in mIRC just hold down your left mouse button and drag it across the text you want to copy, the text will NOT stay highlighted, you DO NOT have to choose copy it is automatic in mIRC, then go to where you what to paste right click and choose paste, in win3.x use Ctlr+v
<Ghatten> and then hit enter just liking sending a message
<Zonie> oops wrong way : )
<Zonie> that for from here to there : )
<Ghatten> Ah I was giving backwards instructions LOL..I thought she wanted to paste and URL from elsewhere INTO mIRC!~
*  Ghatten says sorry must be the headache
<ro> Ghatten.  But when I highlight it with the left mouse button and then go to edit it the highlight disappears.
<Granny-Wicked> how can you set up your colors to look good on the worst monitor and super on the best with psp? I hate going somewhere else and seeing my backgrounds looking so grainy. is there a specific paper to use to keep this from happening?
<Ghatten> If you are copying from mIRC that is right..it will highlight and disappear
<Ghatten> But will copy!
<Zonie> if you are copying from mIRC to somewhere else or back to mIRC
<flamingo> Granny: I don't think that there is much you can do about that ... a bad monitor is a BAD monitor:-(
<Who> Granny...buy 2 computers
<Who> or 2 monitors
<Granny-Wicked> I know but when I go to my friends house I see grainy looking screens is it because I use higher resolutions in colors and they don't?
<Ghatten> The only way to avoid it totally is to use the FEW colors that look the same on every monitor
<Ghatten> The next best thing
<Ghatten> is to select from the 256 Netscape colors
<Ghatten> Also, I tend to avoid "gradient fills"
<Granny-Wicked> but that makes the graphics very limited doesn't it?
<Ghatten> Yes it  CAN be limiting.....
<Ghatten> and it is a consideration that is difficult to deal with
<Granny-Wicked> aw, my one problem, can gradient be used on regular paper?
<Granny-Wicked> most of my first backgrounds were gradient, lol
<Granny-Wicked> no wonder the problem
<Ghatten> Do you limit yourself or do you take chances?  Best suggestion? Strike a happy medium.
<Ghatten> can gradient be used on regular paper?  <--- do you mean will it print>?
<Granny-Wicked> no, when you design, can you just use regular paper, not construction or cloud or what ever?
<Who> A page with lots of links to color pages is Web Color Chart http://felix.scvnet.com/%7Eweber/
<Ghatten> Oh yes, the gradient fills in PSP
<Granny-Wicked> see I was using gradient with construction, I thought that might be the problem, with the graininess
<Granny-Wicked> construction paper that is
<Ghatten> The gradient fill is a separate function from the textures..so I do not know what the interaction might be...could be interesting!
<Ghatten> I also have found Granny that if you do a gradient it saves better as a JPG instead of a gif
<Ghatten> Because there are so many color changes in it
<z-Granny-WIcked> yes that is true too ghatten, I noticed that too
<Ghatten> Also, blurring the gradient some can help...still get the gradient look but not as "defined"
<z-Granny-WIcked> I am doing a lot of experimenting ghatten
<Ghatten> Experimenting is the way to figure out the best ways---I wish I had MORE time to do it
<Ghatten> Nyn do you have a question tonight??
<nyn> thanks- is it okay to put a link to the VU on my page and if so is there a preferred 
<nyn> graphic or phrase I should use?
<Ghatten> It's fine to link to VU, as far as I know they do not have a special graphic
<Ghatten> But it is an idea to suggest to them !
<nyn> certainly is, but I won't go stealing one then! LOL
<Ghatten> Also best to link to the main VU pages since the others change from time to time
<Ghatten> http://www.vu.org
<nyn> oh, yes I have noticed that
<nyn> thank you, that's all
<Ghatten> Maybe someone creative will make a graphic that we can send them heheh and suggest they use?
<Blossom^> hmmmmmmmmmm........lol
<Who> extra credit?
<Zonie> I like the old one I got long time ago : )
<Ghatten> Where did you get it Z?
<Zonie> from old site, before big disaster
<Ghatten> LOL...no credit but it would be cool to say you did it!
<Zonie> hmmmmmmm
<z-Nan> oh no!!! is irc messing up again???
<Who> wow
<Sherry-AFK> i think we just got dumped
<Zonie> server split
<Sherry-AFK> yeppers
<Zonie> I had to come back on wiregrass
<Blossom^> me too Zonie
<z-Nan> this happened the last time i was here...
<Sherry-AFK> here they all come back
* ** ircleuser (newbie@
<Who> where is the cat?
<Blossom^> on her way back
<z-WindSong> Wow...what happened?
<ro> What happened?
<z-Granny-Wicked> server split?
<Zonie> server split
<flamingo> I was disconnected
<Ghatten> what happened???
<Zonie> server split
<abc> Im back
<Who> believe abc had a question?
<abc> When I look at my page on the net and I scroll before it is finished coming up
<Ghatten> Okay we all survived
<abc> it looks like many layers of type run together, why
<Ghatten> Never seen that effect...can I have the URL?
<Who> your scrolling too fast?
<Zonie> browser overload : )
<abc> I will o get it, I am Trendar, you saw it in mid term
<Who> does it eventually straighten itself out?
<Otter> HD overload!!
<Blossom^> empty your cache
<abc> only if I hit reload
<abc>  but not everyone will know that who looks at it
<abc> I empty cache and history Often
<Who> it probably isn't happening to everybody
<Zonie> what is URL?
<Who> what is your URL?
<abc> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/1299/
<abc> No, it only happens when I scroll before it is finished the second half the page
<abc> the first half never runs
<Ghatten> Yes, I remember and it did not happen here...let me look again
<Who> came up fine for me and looks great
<Blossom^> is not having a problem like that here.....
<abc> did you scroll down before it loaded?
<Blossom^> sure did
<Zonie> checked in NS4.04, NS3.04, and IE4.0 and no problems at all, even scrolling before load was complete
<abc> someone in my study group had the problem too, last week
<Who> That is a mighty large background gif
<Who> could be slow load on some machines
<Ghatten> I scrolled all over
<abc> Yes, and it moves around, the face is not always aligned correctly
<Otter> no problem here either!
<Who> abc...what is your browser?
<abc> Netscape
<z-Nan> That happens to my computer but only when the page has large Java applets on it...I don't have a whole lot of ram and i always blamed it on that... I could be wrong though...
<Who> MSIE has an interesting tag that allows you to simulate a watermark background
<Ghatten> I remember that you said the background had a cat and I still don't see a cat
<abc> I do not know Java
<Who> where the page scrolls but the background is STATIC
<abc> Can anyone else see the cat face in the BG
<Zonie> any NS build before .04 in NS has a Java problem, NS recommends you upgrade, that is for both NS 4 and NS 3
<Who> yes
<Who> full page
<abc> It is aligned to be in areas of no type
<Who> You can't guarantee that
<Blossom^> yes........but i get white lines also......
<Who> you don't know the size of the viewers monitor nor what resolution they are using
<abc> zonie, I do not understand NS3 and 4
<Blossom^> between the tiles
<z-nyn> I knda see a cats nose bit the bg is distorted and framed off center
<Zonie> Netscape 3.03, 3.02, 3.01, 3.0 and Netscape 4.03, 4.02, 4.01, 4.0 all have a Java problem you need up upgrade
<abc> I was playing for BG and did not know anything
<abc> OH I have NS 4.o
<Zonie> should update to 4.04
<Who> I just resized my screen and the cat has a "and" on his nose.
<abc> Ok zonie, where and how
<Who> or is it...an "and"?
<Ghatten> I looked at the background image by itself and NOW i see the cat.....I had thought that it was just a textured background--which is why I suggested you cut a piece of it out and use a smaller one
<Zonie> http://www.netscape.com/
<Blossom^> i got rid of the white lines........maximized my browser
<Ghatten> And it loaded fine, even with scrolling all around in while it loaded....
<Ghatten> Anyone have a problem??
<Ghatten> Besides poor Trendar?
<z-WindSong> abc....I see what you are talking about...it just now happened on the bottom part of the page...
<Otter> loaded fine for me but very slow!!!
<z-nyn> I'm looking w/ IE4.01 and the cat is distorted even full screen
<abc> Maybe it is just smaller or slower monitors
<Zonie> none here
<z-WindSong> Yes...I have a problem...but it is on the bottom part of the page....all text over text..and colors smeared.
<abc> I made the cat faded and a little distorted
<z-WindSong> My browser is Netscape 4.04
<Ghatten> Maybe it is a memory problem?
<Ghatten> I think the cat is supposed to be distorted...
<Zonie> Microsoft also has an update/upgrade for IE4 now too
<z-nyn> oh okay 
<z-WindSong> zonie...it is more than distorted....it is smeared.
<Ghatten> Zonie? You were the one who knew all the Netscape bugs..is this one that you have read about?
<Zonie> build 4.72
<Ghatten> I am still trying to recreate the problem?
<Zonie> I didn't have any problems at al with any of my 3 browsers
<z-WindSong> Ghatten...the top half of the page looks fine....it is at the bottom that everything is smeared together on my browser...
<abc> YES, only the bottom
<Ghatten> Okay...looking again
<abc> and reload fixes it
<abc> Is it because my BG is so large and slow to load
<Who> once again though...it is a bit of a drag on slower users to use a full page picture for a background
<Zonie> I still get good load on all 3
<Ghatten> It might be a memory issue...I am not having any problem loading it here
<abc> When I redo the page I will change the BG
<z-Granny-Wicked> maybe she needs to change her browser capability zonie? up the amount it will do? I forget what it is called
<Zonie> cache size
<Blossom^> changing her resolution?
<Zonie> Granny
<abc> change browse capabilities
<z-Granny-Wicked> yes zonie
<z-Granny-Wicked> cache size I think 
<Zonie> if has the hd for it, it couldn't hurt
<Blossom^> i have mine at 1% and get a good load on that page......
<abc> How do I change my cache size
<Zonie> yes but you got big hd : )
<abc> Maybe I should have Grannies Ralph do that
<z-Granny-Wicked> lolrof okay Trendar, will do!!
<abc> thanks no more questions
<Ghatten> Sorry we couldn't solve the mystery!
<abc> It is probably my BG
<Ghatten> Ro, do you have any questions
<ro> On my Valentine's page http://home.earthlink.net/~rfruchtman/valentine/ I would like to do something with the table where I have the midi selections.  I plan to remove the vocalists name and center the titles of the songs but it still looks blank. 
<ro> looks bland...
<Ghatten> Will take a look
<ro> I would like to know how to shade the cell borders.  Can this be done?
<ro> Another option would be to colorize the insides of the cells.  Any comments on this?
<Zonie> in IE you can but not in NS
<Otter> still loading-- hang on!!
<z-Sherry> i was lucky last term when working on page for gen. class, partner had 14.4, he always checked me :)
<Zonie> Member of the Free Help Banner Exchange
<ro> They seem to have lots of problems with their banner loading but I have a lot of credits to get rid of before I leave them.<g>
<Zonie> ha ; )
<ro> Paramount is a good banner exchange...
<ro> So, we really don't have any extraordinary<sp> ideas here?  I created the table the other day
*  Ghatten thinks that everyone should secretly give Roz's Valentines URL to their sweeties....
<ro> because the list of midis was getting yards long.  I will have the same thing on my St. Pattys page.  
*  ro says Ghatten, is that to torture them if they have slow systems or because you really like it?<GBG>
<flamingo> ro: your "You've Got a Friend" link doesn't work
<Ghatten> No, I love it I just emailed it to my hubby!
<ro> Thanks flamingo I will check that out...
<Ghatten> You might want to decrease the border size and the cellspacing
<Ghatten> That would at least decrease the "edges"
<ro> I'll try that Ghatten.  I am not happy with the way it looks now.
<ro> I am going to also remove the vocalists names because it looks inconsistent as far as the cell sizes.
<Ghatten> :(
<Ghatten> Any one else have a question before we wrap it up?
<ro> You like the vocalists' names?
<Zonie> use <BR> after song name and that will put artist name on line by itself, would look good :)
<Ghatten> I think it looks okay
<Ghatten> but the <BR> might be a good ide
<Ghatten> idea
<ro> I agree...  I don't like things breaking like that.  I left that in the middle on Sunday before computer crash.
<ro> I'll make the text bold, use break and center and see how it looks.  As I get vocalists names I will add and it will become more even.
<ro> If anyone knows the vocalists names I would be happy to add.  
<ro> For class project I am doing St. Patty's Day page.  Will be up soon.  Lots of Irish music
<flamingo> Cool ro!  :-)
<Zonie> you can also set your cell width to x pixels
<z-Granny-Wicked> awesome ro
<Zonie> for more even size
<ro> thanks...  You are great for my moral Flamingo!
<Who> using a <BR> on all buttons even if no artist would make all buttons the same size....but that might be boring
<flamingo> Let us know what the URL is ro... I spent three weeks in Ireland a little over a year ago  :-)
<ro> I would love to go there...  
<ro> Zonie, what do you mean about setting cell width to x?
<Zonie> <TD WIDTH="XX">
<Zonie> XX being some number of pixels
<ro> Didn't I do that?<hmm!>
<Who> ro...can you find "May I have this Dance?"
<ro> I'll look Who.  I made a friend on the Internet that has a nice site.  His URL is on the bottom of my page.  Victor... do you see it?
<Ghatten> I have to go ya'll!
<ro> Thanks everyone for your comments on my page.
<Ghatten> nite
* ** Ghatten has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
<ro> Who I'll try and get that song for you...
<ro> Granny... they have them on Saturday and Sunday and it seems that they have the same program both nights
<Granny-Wicked> who is in charge and what is the address ro? please?
<Granny-Wicked> does it cost?
<ro> in charge of what granny?
<ro> You mean the PSP group?
<Granny-Wicked> yes ro
<Granny-Wicked> that is what you were talking about on saturday and sunday isn't it?
<ro> Wait.... let me get the address.  No charges at all..  They even have their own web ring that they encourage you to join....
<ro> Wait here I'll get the address...
<Granny-Wicked> will do ro
<ro> Learn Web Page Designing, Make Graphics! (O__)  
<ro> |http://www.adwebdesign.com 
<ro> Granny did you get it
<Blossom^> granny did you get that BG
<Granny-Wicked> no blossom didn't get the url yet
<Granny-Wicked> thanks ro, will check it out.
<Granny-Wicked> sorry blossom, you can give it to me later if you want
<Blossom^> hang on.....it's  http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/4879
<ro> WAIT... this is NOT right....  wait a minute.
<Granny-Wicked> thanks blossom will check it out too
<Blossom^> k
<Granny-Wicked> okay ro
<Granny-Wicked> thanks blossom
<Blossom^> you're welcome......
<Blossom^> you're welcome granny......let me know what you think of it....please?
<Granny-Wicked> okay will do blossom
<Granny-Wicked> thanks
<ro> Ok... here it is...
<ro> http://www.adwebdesign.com/psp/
<Granny-Wicked> okay thanks ro
<ro> You can go to this page and read about the group, join and get all the info.  You fill out a short form and then they send you a letter of acceptance with all the info about
<Granny-Wicked> thanks ro
<ro> the meeting and the icon you get to put on your site and all.
<Granny-Wicked> I will do that
<ro> It sounds very nice.  
<ro> Thursday is the meeting and I am going to go.  I believe that it is 8pm
<Granny-Wicked> did the class just start?
<Granny-Wicked> hey blossom? are you still here?
<Blossom^> yes granny.........lol
<Granny-Wicked> 8 pm what zone ro?
<Granny-Wicked> blossom, question, do you remember when we did the banner gif? in psp?
<ro> Gee... let me see... 
<Granny-Wicked> I lost my original and can't seem to figure out how to do it again (thank goodness it is on the net) but I need to make it again in case I loose it, do you still have the lesson on it?
<Granny-Wicked> I can't find that either blossom
<Blossom^> oh goodness...i'll have to look in my logs granny........
<Granny-Wicked> I thought I saved all of willy's lesson plans, but alas, to many new hd's and to many crashes have caused problems
<Granny-Wicked> thanks blossom would sure appreciate it, any time, no rush really
<ro> Granny...
<Granny-Wicked> yes ro?
<ro> 8PM EST... This week would be a good one to start with as its mainly a discussion
<ro> meeting and will feature a discussion of fonts and tricks to do text. 
<ro> There will be a tutorial since there was a very nice one scheduled for
<ro> last week and we ran out of time.  See you there; don't worry, the group
<ro> will wait til you catch up if we are doing a tutorial.

Session Close: Tue Feb 10 19:04:35 1998