As told to the Awizard list by Mark "Moogy" Klingman...
Part 7
8/27/99
[How did you come up with that names Lance and Lisa Brentwood? ]
When I was growing up, a friend of my mother's used to make jokes about plastic Hollywood people and he'd call them, "Lance and Lisa Brentwood"... I always thought was the perfect Hollywood name.
Moogy
8/29/99
We Utopians, used to stand backstage while TR would sing this number solo, and have a big laff goofing on the lyric, "the red polygon's only desire is to get to the blue triangle." We thought it was pretty funny.
Moogy
9/1/99
[Hey Moogy: to what degree did/do you believe in the historical social manifestation of "the IKON"?]
Okay - I give up!! What is the historical social manifestation of the Ikon?? Do you know? I don't. To the old band (outside of Todd), it was just an eye on an album cover. And we were just musicians - and TR was just a singing snake oil salesman, inventing some kind of mumbo jumbo that seemed to be much ado about nothing.
Was there an over-riding philosophy to what TR was writing and singing and acting out at the time of the first Utopia album? If there was, he never successfully communicated it to us. He just wanted to be the biggest star and have the biggest band of the seventies. And, if he sweetened the deal with a little enlightenment hocus pocus, so be it.
Just remember the three stages of stardom! It's a show business law of gravity that goes like this:
1. Get me Todd Rundgren!
2. Get me the next Todd Rundgren!
3. Who's Todd Rundgren??
Beware of profits disguised as prophets!
Moogy
9/2/99
[After a TR's Utopia concert in this era, we all stood backstage to wait and get a chance to meet Todd. Some of the stage crew came outside. One of my more politically convinced utopian idealist pyramid power friends approached these crewmembers and nervously asked questions about TR's mystical religious practices. Their response was great laughter and comments like "Since when is blotter and blow jobs a religion?" My friend was crushed, however he never did give up on the mystic thing. It fucked him up as an adult to be quite honest. We got jobs - he stayed at his moms and tended to his pyramids and dream catchers. Such is life.]
"Do you wanna be a vegetable, living all your life at home with mom, tending
to your pyramid??? No, I didn't think you did!! So, better not listen to the
Ikon!! All those unfulfilled enlightenment promises will fuck you up!!!!!"
Jesse Helms on the floor of the senate -- 1975
When Helms said that in 75, I thought that he was kidding. Now I see, from the post above, he wasn't kidding. I'm shocked and dismayed. If I could take it all back I would! Grown men, hanging around the house with mom, thinking about the red triangle getting to the blue ...was it, pyramid??
Moogy
9/2/99
Yes - I wrote lyrics for the first Utopia album (Is that what you're referring to?) - unfortunately TR rejected them. He wrote all the lyrics to that album and the rest of all contented ourselves with writing music.
Moogy
9/3/99
[Moogy---why bother playing the Utopia Theme---write some new stuff. After posting your feelings on The Ikon, you sound like a hypocrite by adding the Utopia Theme to your set list. Don't do it if you don't mean it. You're starting to sound like a bunch of Kroc. Stick with "Dust In The Wind"---it fits you better. ]
Sorry to get the dander of the yucky-mucky going (weren't you the guy I had to defend TR from, over false rumors that TR was stoned on downers while making something/anything?)
When talking about Todd's lyrics as spiritual pablum to sell records, I was only referring to the Utopia album... and those words. And this was only in response to a question about the historical and spiritual significance of the "Ikon." The fact is, you might find keys here to the break-up of the original Utopia. If you want to know what the band was thinking and how we were reacting to TR's "spiritual journey" into Utopia, then from time to time, I might respond a little. I am an eyewitness to history, and if that history isn't always pleasant, then you must be prepared for the answers or stop asking the questions.
When I am constantly asked as to why the original Utopia broke up and what happened, I have kept relatively quiet. But, by the release of the second Utopia album, the whole original band had quit. There must have been a reason. And if my responses drop little hints as to what those reasons were, then try to deal with my answers without the nasty personal attack.... or there will be no answers at all.
Mucky, you have as much right to tell me not to play the Utopia theme, as I have to tell you - you should wipe your ass with sandpaper instead of toilet paper.... Hey, not a bad idea after all !
In a "careful what you wish for" mode,
Moogy
9/4/99
We, in Utopia were as surprised as you with Helm's remarks. To answer your question as to the context... He said the statement in around 74 or 75, during the senate Utopiagate hearings. Those hearings (an investigation of the first Utopia's album's effect on the American people) were largely overshadowed by the Watergate hearings, which took place in approximately the same timeframe.
Perhaps, you saw the Woodward/Bernstein book, "All Utopia's Men"?
Moogy
9/7/99
Tom Dolby was a guest on my cable TV show, Manhattan Alley, back in 1980.. He wasn't a solo artist at the time, but was touring as keyboard man for Bruce Wolley, who had the hit "Video killed the Radio Star".... Dolby was a fanatic Todd/Utopia fan and he used to hang around my studio, on off days from the tour, to press me for info about the good ole daze. Nice kid, but I never knew how talented he was, till he starting putting out solo albums, a few years later. Boy, was I surprised!
Moogy
9/13/99
No TR S/A Sept. 14th release, but the Meatloaf book on himself instead. Should be interesting to see how and if, he mentions me. As the guy who found the Meat and brought him to TR, and was the original co-producer of the album ("Bat Out of Hell" with TR), until I was ousted, early on... should be interesting to see what the Meat sez about all this.
Moogy
9/14/99
The artist I was band leader for, was Lou Reed, who, at that time had his only top ten single "Walk on the Wild Side", produced by David Bowie. Touring with Moogy and the Rhythm Kings - then a few months later a tour with Lou Reed followed by forming and touring with TR's Utopia...wow! A study in contrasts. Lou Reed had more people nodding out on downs, in his audiences than I have ever seen, before or since. The final song of his set was "Heroin" a 20-minute number where he pretended to shoot up!!!!!!!... I guess his message was "nod out". Where TR's 30-minute number was "the Ikon"... elevating the masses to a new spiritual level thru some of the most intense rock music ever played.
The Utopian was Ralph Schuckett, who was my best friend at the time. Only one keyboardist was needed - so Ralph filled in on second guitar. And he wore a silver jacket like Elvis. Pretty funny... one of America's greatest rock keyboardists playing rhythm guitar for a whole tour behind the "Heroin" songster.
On lead guitar and harmony vocals, I selected Tom Cosgrove, who played in TR's band with me, Stu Woods, and N.D. Smart. I think it was called Runt, but maybe something else. Any historians here?
Cosgrove, who had a slight drinking problem, bonded with Lou and his drinking problem, and sometimes they were sooooo drunk when we hit the stage... My fault. I didn't know either of them had a drinking problem before the tour, or I woulda left Tommy at home.
Reed had fired his whole band one-week before the tour and I had four days to find the guys - rehearse them and hit the road. Buffalo Bill Gelber was along for the ride on the bass. And a completely wild black guy named only "Chocolate" was on drums. The crowds were nuts... but Reed was a failure as a rock and roll front man, at least on that tour...he couldn't sing, and some of the time, at least, he could hardly stand up (drinking and maybe pills or something...) fans were more often than not, very disappointed. Just imagine, the difference... playing with TR. He was the supreme front man, singer, performer and "visionary".
So, I'm still in shock, that Lou Reed still has a major label deal and a lot of respect. Where TR has no label deal, and is mostly a forgotten man (outside of his extremely loyal fan base)...Irony of Ironies.
Moogy
9/14/99
A few comments about TR's engineering and production style. He moved quick. Everything was always done quickly. Recording the trax... overdubs, vocals... and mixing... He moved a mile a minute and if you didn't wanna keep up with him. Too bad! TR liked to finish any album he worked on in about two weeks. He sometimes mixed whole albums in a day. (I think the first Utopia album was done that way)... If you wanted to spend whole sessions trying to get a good or better vocal... he just didn't wanna tolerate that. His style was to move fast and capture the moment. He did all his vocals that way. Moving faster than a speeding bullet. He'd come into secret sound (my loft) and go to the control room and in a couple of hours all the lead and background vocals for a song would be done...
He moved fast and he expected others to do the same. That's why most artists didn't want to do a second album with him. They wanted to do things slowly, meticulously, and perfectly. Mix a song in a day and not a whole album. Record one song vocal in a day... punching in and doing track after track. Not TR... He moved fast as hell and onto the next thing. You didn't like the Vocal? too bad..... the train was leaving the station and onto the next thing.
Even his trashy sounds and mixes were some kind of artistic statement. Remember - he built secret sound out of home audio equipment and crazy wiring... and no engineer in the control room when we did trax. But the sounds - like the songs themselves - made their own statements.
Moogy