Following are selected posts to the Holisticat (TM) Mailing List on the subject of arthritis. There's a lot of information here, and the posts are arranged in ascending chronological order. If there is a particular word you're looking for, it's probably best to utilize the "Find in Page" function in your edit menu!

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<10/7/98 From Elaine C. Re: Arthritis>
In a message dated 10/6/98 5:03:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
GoForaSail@ writes:

<< article which explains this and she said not to waste your money on the Chondroiton.  >>

Sorry, but I must disagree. Glucosamine and chondroitin do separate things. So you may not  need both.  Glucosamine is great for arthritis.  Chondroitin brings fluid to the joints.  When this happens, the fluid contains nutrients, and it cushions the area.  I have my mother on it, and she's incredibly improved.  She tried both and didn't like the glucosamine, but her problem called for the chondroitin.  So it depends on whether the area needs strengthening or cushioning.

Elaine Crews, N.D.
Up With Herbs
1-800-

Judy Lerner <jlerner@>writes:
<<My friend Carol has a 14yo cat, Katie, with arthritis, spondylosis in  the lower spine, and 2 collapsed disks in her neck. Carol says it's very painful for Katie to get around (they moved to Arizona a year ago, so >>

Poor Katie!:((  Judy, tell your friend to look into the following herbs and supplements: Yucca, Devil's Claw, Boswellia Serrata, and Glucosamine Sulfate.  All 4 of them can be used together so she might be able to find a combo at the health food store u know something along the lines of "joint support" or "arthritis" or something, and that way can just give 1 pill a day.

It takes some time (at least 6 weeks) to see improvement from Boswellia.  I have been giving it to Booey since June, and feel it has helped him a lot.  I also give him Gluc Sulf one pill every 2 weeks or so. WOuld give more but the poor guy already gets so much stuff.

Good luck, and hope this stuff helps Katie.  You know what else - if her mom has access to a holistic vet who does chiropractic adjustments, that might help immensely.  Nancy mentioned a book sometimes ago called "The Well Adjusted Cat"..help me Nancy, who is the author I can't remember.  Was just thinking if Katie can't get to a chiro, then her mom can try something from that book in addition to the herbs.

Sandy

Sandy,

<<Yumi, does it say to take this combo for short-term only?>>

It said can be used daily, then take a break. In general, they recommend 6 days on and 1 day off, take a week or two break from the formula every two to three months.

<<One other thing - Oregon Grape Root is very hi in berberine but it can  kill off the good bacteria so OGR should only be taken on a short-term  basis.>>

I guess that might depend on how much OGR in this formula? If this happens even with little amount, then it doesn't make sense to take acidiphilus or combination probiotics because what you take would get killed by OGR. But, if  you take hight dose of friendly bacteria, and OGR is not strong enough to kill all , it does make sense to supplement whenever you are using OGR for
precaution.

Yumi

hi sandy, martha, list-

<<heart disease.  Every 3 days is probably not too bad; it does take a  long time to be metabolized by kitties.  Can't remember it's  half-life..anyone?>>

here's a repost from a holistic vet on another list-- if i remember, she gave nan or i permission to post it here, too:
 

Well, sure!  Cats have very low levels of the liver enzymes needed to break down and eliminate aspirin, so you have to give low doses and very far apart.  A reasonably safe dose in an average 10# cat would be one BABY aspirin (81 mg) or 1/4 of an adult aspirin (1/4 of 325 mg which, happens to also be about 81 mg), every 3 days.  The half-life of aspirin in cats is something like 56 hours, that's why you have to dose so far apart.  I use it cautiously but actually rather often (which, for me, is maybe once or twice a month), and usually for fevers of over 106.

BTW, since we have a lot of new listers, maybe now is a good time to remind everyone to NEVER NEVER NEVER give Tylenol, Ibuprofen or any other painkilling drugs other than aspirin to pet animals, they are deadly.  Tylenol trashes the liver and the red blood cells, and Ibuprofen nails the kidneys.  A big dog might tolerate a tablet of one or the other with few effects, but in small dogs and cats even one is potentially fatal.

If you're giving your dog aspirin for arthritis, it's best to use a buffered aspirin and follow your vet's instructions on dosage and timing.  Aspirin can cause stomach ulcers in dogs just like it can in people.

Cheers, Dr Jean

Folks,

I don't know about dietary changes, but I swear by Rhus Toxicodendron.  I  have the 30C, and I take it myself, and give it to Belle and Face, the  two bothered by arthritis.

A naturopath told me to eliminate acid from my diet, and salt.  Well, I  don't eat salt, but eliminating acid for a cat sounds a little weird.   They don't often eat tomato sauce, or drink coffee.  Those are the only  dietary suggestions I have.  The Rhus Tox really works for the 3 of us.

Debbie

To Sandy and everybody:

I'm usually a lurker, and haven't even been online for awhile, since I had a busy 1997 and already 1998 what with buying and selling a condo, having to get a new car, dealing with my health problems, my cat's health problems, and my mom's, too.  The new year can only get better (I hope).

My cat is Aldonza and she has kidney disease, liver disease, chronic urinary infections, and arthritis.  I'm now working with both a holistic vet and an allopathic vet who has an interest in holistic medicine.  This combo was not easy to find, but is working very well.

Anyway, everything is fairly well under control right now except, I fear, her arthritis pain.  She has it in her front legs from the paws up to the first joint and is walking with a limp.  Unfortunately, the day after I moved she was behind me when I didn't know it and I took a step backward right on to her left paw.  She is slowly coming back from this.  My holistic vet has prescribed Dispel, which is a Chinese herbal formula containing Corydalis, Poria, Ge Gen, Dipsacus, and Chen Pi put out by VeTherapy.  She is doing fairly well on this; however, my realtor was telling me recently about a product she just started using on her dog with great success for hip dysplasia (sp?) called Bio Vet.  Has anyone tried this or any other product for the kind of front leg feline arthritis that I described above with good success?

Aldonza is also on Cranberry Comfort by NaturVet to promote a healthly urinary tract and has not had a urinary infection since being on it.

Does anyone know of a veterinary catalog that sells holistic products, including the ones that I mentioned above.  I'd like to save money by ordering these products direct, if possible.

I will probably be bringing Aldonza in for bloodwork early next week, nearly a month late because I was without a car.  Keep your fingers crossed that her numbers haven't increased.  If anybody is interested in the regimen I am using for her kidney and liver disease here it is:

• Cytozyme KV - 4 daily
• Cytozyme LV - 1/2 tab daily
• Renal Plus - 4 daily
• 500 mcg sublingual B12  - 1 daily
• 150cc lactated ringers daily with 3cc of injectable B12 (l,100 mcg)
• 6 drops of Dandelion Root Extract in her food twice a day
• 6 drops of Milk Thistle Extract in her food twice a day

One thing that bothers me:  Aldonza spends the majority of her time on the bed.  Is this unusual for a cat her age (16 this year) or might it be due to illness? She even wants her food to be served in bed, which I really don't like to do.  Any ideas on how to encourage her to come out of the bedroom?

Please feel free to e-mail me for or with any helpful information you might have to offer.

Thanks.

Betty

Hi Jim and Dena,

You have the rescue operation w/ 45 cats, right?  I admire what you're doing for these little guys.  It is so neat that you have taken Scooty to the chiro...sounds like it really helped.  Can you continue to bring her in for adjustments?

I didn't know what to look under; the closest condition I could come up with relating to joints is arthritis & hip dysplasia, so these
supplements are for those conditions, but it sounds like they might do Scooty some good.  This advice (in mostly my words) comes from _The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care_ by CJ Puotinen pp 354-56.

First, add digestive enzymes to Scooty's wet food if you don't feed raw. Puotinen recommends ProZyme.  I get this myself (for my cats).  My vet orders it for me.  Here's the company info of the bottle: PROZYME PRODUCTS LTD., PO Box 597133, Chicago, IL 60659-7133, 1-800-522-5537.  Digestive enzymes will help Scooty utilize her food better, which is esp. important for animals having joint trouble.

Vitamin C and raw bones are supposed to be very helpful. (chicken wings, legs, necks etc.)  I use sodium ascorbate--maybe 250-500 mgs per day when a cat of mine is ill. It's a buffered powder w/out the tart taste of ascorbic acid, and you can stir it into the food. Here's info off the bottle I use: Now Sodium Ascorbate (100% pure Vitamin C powder)--distributed by NOW FOODS, GLENDALE HEIGHTS, IL 60139

There are also some other supplements recommended: chondroitin sulfate (derived from cartilage), glucosamine sulfate, cetyl myristoleate, superoxide dismutase (SOD), fish oils and anitoxidant vitamins and enzymes.  (I wish Puotinen had been more specific here...)

What you do is take the human dosage and give Scooty 1/10th of that.

I would also consider getting a book on massage for Scooty.  The Tellington TTouch is supposed to be one of the best. (I plan to buy a copy soon.)

I don't know if any of this will help your little Scooty, but I hope so! :) Headbutts and Hugs to Scooty and your crew!

Take Care, Susan

Betty, I'm not sure what you know about the condition, but the vet probably told you to cut way back or  stop vit. A supplementation (in whatever form, I.e. liver, as oversupplementation of vit. A causes the condition and sometimes spondylosis can be reversed if supplementation is stopped).  The Cornell Book of Cats  recommends this as well as anti-inflammatory agents.  (I have to got to work, but I'll look for natural anti-inflammatories in my books this evening.)  The Cornell Book says it is a good idea to raise the water and food bowls a few inches off the ground for cats suffering from spondylosis.

I'm glad Aldonza's kidney disease is under control.  It seems like some of the stuff you're doing for her arthritis should help with the
spondylosis.

Betty, I found this passage in _Four Paws, Five Directions_, p. 345:

"If your animal friend has been diagnosed with arthritis of the spine with spondylosis, this is a chronic condition for which western medicine has little to offer except anti-inflammatory medications.  In addition to the recommendations of your veterinarian, acupressure can be helpful.  General massage in small circular motions or gentle back and forth motion can be used along the muscles on either side of the spine.  If the animal's condition is worse in cold weather, moxa can be used to warm the muscles.  After you've lit the moxa, place your free hand on the animal's spine and move it concurrently with the other hand.  slowly guide the moxa over the back muscle, holding it just off the fingertips to monitor temperature and make sure you don't singe your friend's fur. Moxa will reduce muscle spasms and general back pain that become worse in cold weather.  Daily massage is helpful in stimulating circulation."

"Moxa.  Moxibustion is the technique of burning an herb called mugwort, or artemis vulgaris, near muscles, joints, or specific acupoints.  It is package either dried or loose, or rolled into long, cigar-like rolls. The roll usually has two paper coverings on it.  The outer layer is peeled away about one inch from the top of the stick, exposing the underlayer.  Light an end, like a cigar, and blow until it glows.  Once lighted, practice on yourself by holding the moxa roll close to, but not touching, the skin on your free hand.  Feel the intensity of the heat. This heat stick, held near an acupoint, treats the point with warmth. To extinguish the moxa roll, bury the lighted tip in soil, or use aluminum foil at the end of the roll.  Moxa helps to warm and activate the circulation and relieve pain.

"The technique I use on animals is to hold the lit roll in one hand.  Then I place my other hand on the animal's area to be treated.  I move the stick above the animal's fur *and* the tips of my fingers.  This way, I can keep track of how hot the area becomes and so prevent singeing the animal's fur.  I usually treat the point by warming it with moxa for 10-15 seconds.  Animals who are cold usually like this treatment.  Some don't and because each animal is an individual, discontinue treatment if your animal friend seems afraid or uncomfortable.  And, fo course, be careful not to burn the skin or singe the fur.

"Moxa is especially good for stiffness that is worse in the cold.  Treatment can be done along both sides of the spine, on the
Bladder meridian, or on the Conception Vessel meridian to warm the abdomen.

"The following points respond well to moxa treatment: Stomach 36, Spleen 6, and Governing Vessel 4, along with the Bladder and Conception Vessel meridians."

I have no personal (human or feline) experience treating arthritis or kidney disease (except very recently since Pete is showing signs of kidney problems), so almost everything I give you here is just from reading in my books. To tell you the truth I hesitated to mention the cause of spondylosis because I thought you would already know that. Please run anything by your holistic vet as we don't want treatment for one problem to exacerbate or cause another.  Cod liver oil is high in vitamin A, so be careful with that.  Betty, when I mentioned liver, I didn't mean to suggest that you give Aldonza liver, but the opposite.  Liver is high in vitamin A--the Cornell book noted that giving cats too much liver is one of the ways (in fact the most common way according to Cornell) to oversupplement with vitamin A and cause spondylosis in cats.  However, cats need vitamin A and can't it from beta carotene; they lack the enzyme to turn BC to retinol--the active form of vitamin A, so cats need preformed vitamin A such as that contained in liver. The key is balance.  I guess we're back to the "mouse" diet :)

All the other supps in Renal Plus sound okay to me (again that doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot since I have little exp.) except I thought Magnesium should be kept to a minimum for cats w/ kidney problems.  This must be a human supplement... I don't know what I'd do about the Cytozyme, but I'd be really careful.  8 caps sounds like a lot unless you know what you're doing.  I'm glad you're open to the moxa treatment.  It sounded really interesting to me.  I am also doing the massage thing for my kits--just got my copy of the Tellington TTouch, so that's my weekend reading :)

Actually, this is too long.  I'll start a new message with the Pet. Encycl.'s info. right after I send this.

This is from George Macleod's book Cats: Homeopathic Remedies, p. 138:

"The feeding of too much liver has been shown in the cat to result in bony enlargements of certain joints, especially carpus and neck region. In several cases complete absence of joint movement may occur.  Loss of movement results in wasting of muscles involved.  Any treatment to be successful must depend on discontinuing liver as a source of food and substituting it with protein of a different nature, e.g., kidney.  If the condition is not advanced too far, ACID SAL (30C), CAULOPHYLLUM (30C) and ACTAEA RAC (30C) are all worthy of consideration.  Mild cases may resolve spontaneously if the liver diet is discontinued."  just my opinion, but I'd strongly consider homeopathy....

Okay, now I'm going to give you paraphrases and excerpts from the Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care.  This was the one of the best of my natural care pet books as far as giving specific recommendations which I could easily find in the book. WHY don't other authors realize that a good index should be right up there in priorities!!!!  From now on, before I buy a cat/pet care book, I am going to make sure the index makes the book's info accessible--Yarnall's and Stein's books have been very difficult for me to use because of indexing problems.

Anyhow, all this is under the general category of arthritis (spondylosis is considered a form of arth.).  Betty, I have even more info in Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch & Balch (an excellent book with a beautiful index:), but this is for humans, so you'd have to adjust dosage and check everything with  your vet. Let me know if you want that.

From The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care by CJ Puotinen:

Those cats with kidney ailments or arthritis should NOT use Essiac tea because of the oxalic acid in two of its ingredients,
although it has sometimes helped dogs and cats with this  disorder.  p.301

"The orthodox treatment for arth. is the use of cortisone and anti-inflammatory drugs, neither of which addresses the problem's cause.  These treatments may suppress symptoms but don't interrupt joint deterioration.  When the drugs stop working or are discontinued, symptoms are usually worse than before because the disease itself is worse."

Nutritional Therapy:  ...If raw food is impossible to provide on a daily basis, digestive enzymes will help prevent arthritis.  [Puotinen
suggests ProZyme, but that's not my fav. for kits.  I like PHD's Unleash because it's got animal-based enzymes (not just plant as in ProZyme) and I don't have to use as much, so there's less chance of the kits rejecting food.] Enzymes increase the absorption of essential nutrients and fatty acids from cooked food.  ProZyme has been used with success for d*gs w/ hip dysplaysia.

Shark cartilage has conflicting reports as to efficacy but might be worth a try.  Puotinen says the best way to give cartilage is through raw bones.  She also cites Dr. Wendell Belfield in recommending Vitamin C (to bowel tolerance then decreasing) along with the raw bones, but I'd be careful with prolonged mega doses of vitamin C because that has been connected to kidney stones in cats (evidence is just anecdotal--no studies).

Dried, powdered sea cucumber has also been helpful for d*gs and cats with arthritis.  Most sea cucumber products have a pronounced fishy odor that appeals to ...cats.

Other supplements said to help human, canine, feline, and equine arthritis patients include chondroitin sulfate (derived from cartilage), glucosamine sulfate, cetyl myristoleate, superoxide dismutase (SOD), fish oils and antioxidant vitamins and enzymes.

Food sensitivities often manifest as arthritis, so in addition to upgrading your pet's diet, test for his/her reaction to individual food. Pasteurized milk is a common culprit.

Herbal Therapies: [overlaps w/ Sandy's suggestions] the herbs boswellia, feverfew, devil's claw root and yucca root are only a few of the herbs considered specifics for joint pain.  The external application of arnica tincture is another.  Bupleurum, burdock root, dandelion, horsetail and nettle are important support herbs.  Wheat grass  and other green grasses are recommended as well.  Celery seed extract (tincture or powder, added to food)may also help.

Cayenne pepper increases circulation and relieves pain when taken internally. Puotinen notes that although human arthritis sufferers have noted problems w/ plants in the nightshade family (including cayenne), this response is not commonly reported in d*gs, cats, horses and other animals, although certainly possible.  Give cayenne caps w/ dinner. p. 355-56

Here's Puotinen's herbal dosage chart:

• For 5-10 lbs body weight:  Tincture: 2 drops; Size 00 capsule: 1/2 cap; Tea: 1 tsp.
• For 10-20 lbs body weight: Tincture: 4 drops; Size 00 capsule: 1 cap; Tea: 2 tsps.

I believe the digestive enzymes are specifically for commercial food, but sometimes people also use enzymes on the raw food.  (I have been lately since Pete has been having tummy problems.)  You can order Unleash from this website or perhaps find a distributor near you: http://phdproducts.net

How long has Aldonza been on 3,500 IUs of vit. A daily?  The Cornell Book of Cats notes that while deficiencies of vit A can happen, it is much more common to see vitamin A toxicity in cats.  I know this will be something I watch from now on, thanks to looking this up for Aldonza. I hope that just cutting back on the other sources of vitamin A will enable you to still give the Renal Plus since it's helping Aldonza's kidney function.

My understanding is that the supplements Puotinen recommends are intended to interrupt joint deterioration and help with pain, but the acupressure/puncture your vet is giving should really help Aldonza with the pain, too.