Following are selected posts to the Holisticat (TM) Mailing List on the subject of kidney stones. There's a lot of information here, and the posts are arranged in ascending chronological order. If there is a particular word you're looking for, it's probably best to utilize the "Find in Page" function in your edit menu!

Happy hunting :)

<from Sandy 8/11/98 re: FUS>
Hi guys,

Does anyone have the latest issue of CATS magazine?  I just read a really good article on FUS in there by Ed Kane, PhD.

Very thought-provoking indeed.  He sez cats in ancient Egypt had crystals too, and that crystals have been documented in the literature in the early 1800s.  But now w/ the "acidifying" diets out there, vets are finding more of the oxalate stones.  Sheesh!  I know several people whose cats developed CRF after being on Hills C/D:((

Also, he talks about the free feeding thing, and mentions that there is indeed an alkaline tide right after eating which makes a cat's urine more alkaline but he sez this would happen regardless of how many times u feed a kitty cat, and that the alkaline rush doesn't last long enough to really cause the urine to remain alkaline.

On reading his article, I felt even better about feeding a natural diet to my carnivores.  It's really an interesting article cuz he also talks about how cat food manufacturers realized it wasn't ash that was the culprit, but magnesium.  Only problem is they used Mag Oxide as the source of mag, whereas studies showed that Mag Chloride was not detrimental.

Anyway, since Marsha mentioned her kitty had been blocked, and I know others have had to deal w/ this (like poor Brandy kitty), I figured I'd give u a heads up to try and get a hold of this article if u can.  It's on newstands right now.

FWIW, I have no commercial interest in this magazine.

Sandy and the mountain cats

Hi Trish and everyone,

Besides being wayyyy behind in messages, my Netscape seems to be mal-functioning.

The reason I think your vet is going with a kidney disease diet for kidney stones is that stones can lead to diseased kidneys, so your vet is being precautious.  Charlie is 7 1/2 years old so if you go with a lowered protein food, IMO that shouldn't cause probs, till the stones are dissolved (just incase).  For crf I am in favor of a lowered protein food.  Sammy (crf) for a year ate homemade (Fraziers) lowered protien food.  I read all this quality vs. quantity stuff and decided to raise his protein %.  Let me say now, that Sammys kidney #'s were the *exact* same (not too high--fairly good) for 5 blood tests prior to me raising his protein.  I raised his protein and it sent his #'s soaring which then required sub-q fluids.  Leah's, Giddy has good results with a maintenance protein % and crf, but she supplements with glandulars which I think is the reason for her good results.

If you do decide to stay with a commercial kidney disease diet, *I* think that perhaps you should look into the Purina NF formula.  Both the dry and canned versions have much better ingredients than the k/d.

If you go with a homemade lowered protein diet, I can share with you what supplements I use with my boyz, but I'm not sure your really want to treat stones at this point as kidney disease.

Well wishes to Charlie, and special purrz to Timmy :(

Magnesium is found in most foods, especially dairy products, fish, meat, and seafood.  Other rich food sources include apples, apricots, avocados, bananas, blackstrap molasses, brewer's yeast, brown rice, figs, garlic, kelp, lima beans, millet, nuts, peaches, black eyed peas, salmon, sesame seeds, tofu, tourla, green leafy veggies, wheat, and whole grains.

Magnesium combined with vitamin B6 may prevent calcium oxalate kidney stones.

Large amounts of fats, cod liver oil, calcium, vitamin D, and protein decrease magnesium absorption.  Foods high in oxalic acid, such as almonds, chard, cocoa, rhubarb, spinach, and tea, also inhibit magnesium absorption.

(*Source: Prescription for  Nutritional Healing by the Drs Balch)

Release........

Kristy
*Remembering Babbie May 1983- November 1997*
Taylors Muddy Paw Dog Training (member APDT)
Sacramento CA
muddypaw@

Hi Cindy,

I've had several cats with similar problems and it turns out they had calcium oxalate kidney stones.  There are several types of stones, but unless you have them tested, you don't know what they are.  Some can be dissolved with supplements, but others-calcium oxalate- won't dissolve.  The vet I was using at the time picked them up on x-rays, but had a really hard time diagnosing the source of the recurring problem.  I got a referral to the vet school where there were able to do a pyleogram (Dye test) to determine each kidney's functioning ability and determine where the stones were and the best course of action.  My understanding is that because the stones are porous, they form a perfect hiding spot for bacteria.  Even though you treat with AB, it's difficult to completely get the little buggers.  One of my kitties, Heidi,  ended up having surgery to remove the stones- one was blocking her ureter.  A second kitty, Holly, was diagnosed 1 year later-both bladder and kidney stones and had lithotropsy to break up the stones so she could pass them.  Both are senior citizens- Heidi was 14 when she had  the surgery; Holly was 15.  Both came through with flying colors.  They were both under the care of Dr. Larry Adams at Purdue.  I know Purdue does phone consultations and they were extremely reasonable from a price standpoint.  Phone is 765-494-1107.

Hi Noreen,
One of my vets who is a feline kidney transplant surgeon at Angell Memorial Hospital in Boston tells me that:

1.      Science diet food is recommended so frequently by vets not because of the nutritional content, but because it's the only food that vets are familiar with that is "balanced" and won't cause crystals.

2.  She also supports the fact that some cats will get crystals regardless of diet.  She recently operated on and removed 20 kidney stones from a kitty that had been kept on Science diet  for the past eight years because of an earlier bout with crystals.

3.      Two of my vets (one holistic and one allopathic) concur that if foods like Science diet are used, the kitties should be evaluated every few months.  Both agree that they question the value of keeping a cat on something like Science Diet forever..

Sharon
(who spends too much time checking litter boxes and kitties elimination habits) LOL
Boston

Hi Noreen,
I'm so sorry for poor Cletus and you.  he must have been in a lot of pain :(.  The Vit. E and aloe were just for helping any scars in the
urethra and bladder heal.  I didn't even consider that Cletus still had crystals.  I've been reading about this in the Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care as both Mickey and Pete have recently had urinary tract problems. Anyhow on pp 446-448, Puotinen makes several nutritional recommendations.  First is, you guessed it, a well-balanced raw food diet fed only twice a day w/ once a week fasting.  She says this in itself will "cure" many urinary problems.  She also recommends the following:

• give plenty of water, add extra water to wet food, maybe even place a few grains of unrefined sea salt on pet's tongue to encourage him/her to drink.  [I have found that a water fountain helps in this dept.; also many others have suggested using distilled water to help clear up FUS]
• "Willard Water extract [added] to pet's water for improved nutrient assimilation and to boost resistance to infection."
• 250 mg vit. C 2x daily per 10 lbs body weight.  Puotinen write,"Vitamin C improves the acid/alkaline balance and, according to Wendell Belfield and other authorities, prevents and dissolves kidney stones despite the widespread belief that it causes these problems."  Again, she recommends a natural vit. C or calcium ascorbate. [edited rest of post--didn't pertain to stones]

I looked back in some of my files from last fall and found a post on removing stones.  This comes from Debra Moore, D.N., I am posting with her permission.

"This remedy works within 10 days on any unnecessary stones/calculi within the system -renal stones, bone spurs, you name it.  Tastes good too.  Here's the recipe: (ingredients can be cut in half to make a smaller batch)  This is nontoxic.

Dr. Shook's remedy:

• 3oz hydrangea root (Hydrangea aborescens) -cut & sift.  Please note this is not the pink or blue poofy flowers you grow in the garden.  That's why I give the botanical name as well.  It's other common name is Seven Barks.  If you cannot find it locally, contact Great American Natural Products in St. Petersburg, FL at 727-521-4372.  They ship anywhere
• 3 heaped teaspoonfuls of crushed Natrum Phosphate 6X (homeopathic biochemic tissue salt) available in just about every health food store.  Sold as Nat Phos 6X
• 3 pints distilled water
• 100% pure vegetable glycerine

Process:  In a glass or stainless steel pot, dissolve the nat phos in the water, stir in the hydrangea root and let stand for no less than 6 hours at room temperature- stir occasionally.  After 6 hours, bring to a boil and boil for 15 minutes.  Strain, cool and add 25% of glycerine.  Example:  If you're left with 1 cup of liquid, add 1/4 cup glycerine.  Bottle and refrigerate.  Will keep for 10 days to 2 weeks.  Shake well before dosing.

Dosage:  for an 8lb cat 1 teaspoon 2 times a day.  If no improvement within 10 days bump it up to 3 times a day.

If the formula instructions are followed to a 'T', and you take is as directed it will work.  Some cases may be tougher than others but the formula is safe and every effective."

I hope this might be of help to you.  It's at least an option.   I hope Puffin continues to do well.  What a sweet name your kitty has.

Candy

Melody,

I have had two cats with calcium oxalate stones that I had treated at Purdue by Dr. Larry Adams.  Both cats had chronic infections that just would not clear up .  Holly and Heidi are littermates that I've had since birth. Heidi's stone was lodged in one of the ureters, but Holly's were in the renal pelvis.   Heidi ended up having surgery to remove the stone when she was almost 14 yrs old, Holly had lithotripsy the following year when she was 15.  Both are on SQs at home now- they will be 18 on Aug 4.  I don't know how widely available these procedures are at vet schools-both were pretty expensive.  Lithotripsy is the same procedure that's used on people to breakup stones.  General anesthesia is used, then the cat (or person) is partially submerged in a water bath.  Precisely targeted sound waves are then aimed at the stones to cause them to cavitate and break into smaller particles which can be passed. Because the stones are porous and have many tiny openings, they provide a haven for bacteria to grow, so ABs are used prior and after the procedure to keep them in check.  These were the only options I was aware of at the time-I was lucky they worked well for my babies.   Good luck with your baby.

Linda Moore and Fuzzy Family

-----Original Message-----
From: Melody Baker <MBaker@

Hi Trish,
Yes, good memory, it was me!
My Puffin has CRF and an oxalate kidney stone.  I have searched and searchedwith no success to find a way to treat the stone.  I am told the oxalate typestone can not be reduced or dissolved through medication or diet.  If you have any info that would help improve or manage that condition, I would be very appreciative.Puffin had a check up yesterday.  The stone has not moved or grown, but her CREA has climbed from 2.6 to 3.3.  So we are doing a bit more agressive treatment with her for a month and then recheck to see where we are.  She seems to be feeling great, better than in many, many months - so I'm struggling with "treat the cat, no the numbers".  Easier said than done. Thank you again, I appreciate your efforts.
Melody
email: MBaker@