hey ya'll --

Gosh - we have liver stuff come up every month or so it seems! Poor kitties :( I make this 'public' in case anyone else is in the same
boat!!

<<Dakota will be 6 yrs old this yr. and way too young to be dying of  liver disease.  What could have caused this?  What might his chances  be?  Is this genetic?  Is it treatable, and if so, what quality of  life will he have?>>

Judy, been there, with a six year old cat, no causes that could be readily identified and blood values that were so high that no-one though he'd make it. Sam fought hard, and made it. Aggressive treatment saved his life, and a raw diet took over once he was home.

There were two things that I thought *might* have been the cause, but I never had anything done to verify:
1- we used advantage on him the night before I noticed he was ill
2- he eats skinks

My limited knowledge says it ain't genetic if it's a reactive thing - meaning if there's a cause, it's likely genetics has nothing to do with it. Keep in mind, I'm just a layperson momcat, tho :)

I had Sam hospitalized on IV fluids 24 hours a day for 5 days, then he was allowed to come home at night and spent the day in the hospital for another 3-4 days. Finally, I got to bring him home, but I worked for the vet who treated him, so I could give injections and fluids at home, and knew how to force-feed. sam went a total of 12 days without any food, and miraculously avoided getting fatty liver. The end diagnosis was pancreatitis, and suspected gall bladder stoppage/sluggishness. Sam
spent a month on 2 different antibiotics, and 2 months on actigal to "desludge" his gall bladder. Like I said, aggressive care :)

If ya wanna chat privately about blood work results and how I handled sam, please let me know. I also have a myriad of liver related posts I can forward ya if you want.

Hugs and vibes to Dakota from me, and some well-meaning growls from Sam (the other-cat hater :) I saw Dakota's photo on your page -- he's very handsome :)

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel
mailto:vick@

RhodeoGal@wrote:
<<Today's visit to vet went well, except the vet now says he is feeling  what he feels is a small tumor on the liver.  HELP !!!!  He is scheduling a  needle biopsy for next Friday ( 2/19).  Could anyone give me more info on dandelion, and how much to give.  Also,
am I giving him enough Milk Thistle?  He now weighs 9lbs.  I also heard that Aloe Vera is good for the liver.  Any input on that would be >>

Hi Carolyn,

Oh boy, you guys have been through a lot, eh:(  I don't know about aloe vera being good for the liver tho I doubt it's bad in any way.  The MLT u are giving is good.  Is that 3 drops diluted or mixed in w/ his food in tincture form directly from the bottle?  I think one can give as much as 1 dropperful of a 1:1 tinc. to water dilution.

If u wanna give dandelion (which is fantastic) look for the root which is used for liver ailments.  Another option is to find a formula that contains both root and leaf (good for the kidneys).  U can give 1 capsule a day.  I used to give Booey dandelion brewed as a tea so am unsure of dosages.  He got 1 small baby syringe 2X.

ALso what u can do is rotate herbs like say Burdock Root one week and Dandelion Root another while giving MLT say 5 days on, 2 days off.  A herbalist like Mary could give you more exact dosages.  I'm just guessing here.

What other supplements are u giving him?  Perhaps lecithin might help as well.  For the tumor, I would look into mushrooms like we were talking about yesterday on the list.  They are reputed to help w/ tumors and have anti-cancer properties.

Good luck to your kitty boy.  What a fighter.  Bet he'll lick this easily as well:)

Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats

Hey everyone --

<<Today's visit to vet went well, except the vet now says he is feeling  what he feels is a small tumor on the liver.  HELP !!!!  He is
> scheduling a needle biopsy for next Friday ( 2/19). <<snip>>  Could anyone give me more info on dandelion, and how much to give.   Also, am I giving him enough Milk Thistle?  >>

Carolyn -- so sorry to hear your baby hasta get a biopsy (I'm having one done today, too).

Here's a post I have saved re: hepatic lipidosis from when Kristy Taylor posted it here awhile back. Herb and vitamin doses are listed for people, tho... Sandy don't you figure something like 1/10th the human dose for cats??

Merck Manual says:

Feline Idopathic Hepatic Lipidosis is a disease of undetermined etiology that is associated with a period of anorexia (few days to several weeks), especially in obese cats.  Factors that may trigger anorexia include a change of diet to initiate weight loss or other stressful events (eg, moving, boarding, death or other pets or owners).  Secondary hepatic lipidosis is associated with either a primary metabolic (eg, diabetes mellitus) or GI disease (eg, inflammatory bowel disease,  gastric foreign bodies, pancreatitis, or cholangiohepatitis) that can cause anorexia. Regardless of the inciting cause, the end result is excessive accumulation of triglycerides (fat) within the liver, which leads to severe intrahepatic cholestasis and hepatic failure.

Clinical findings:
Clinical signs are variable but can include dramatic weight loss (30-40% experimentally) due to anorexia, vomiting, lethargy, and diarrhea.  Signs of hepatic encephalopathy are unusual, as are bleeding tendencies, but can be noted in advanced disease.  Icterus or pale mucous membranes, ptyalism, hepatomegaly, and decreased body condition with retention of abdominal fat are commonly seen.  ......

Treatment [allo]-
Treatment is primarily supportive, unless an underlying cause can be found.  Fluid therapy, with a polyionic, isotonic solution supplemented with potassium and thiamine, is recommended to correct dehydration.  Administration of dextrose fluids can exacerbate [worsen] signs of hepatic encephalopathy by stimulating hepatic fat synthesis and should be avoided unless the cat is hypoglycemic.  Feeding as soon as possible is essential.  Occasionally, appetite stimulants (eg, diazepam or cyproheptidine) may be helpful.  However, long term use of diazepam can have a negative effect on the liver.  Usually, placement of a nasoesophageal, pharnygostomy, esophagostomy, or gastrotomy tube is necessary.  A high protein, calorie-dense, balanced diet is recommended unless the cat shows signs of hepatic encephalopathy, in which case a low-protein diet should be used.  Initially, feedings are small and given frequently.  On the first day, 1/3 to 1/3 of the cat's ideal
caloric intake is fed; the amount fed is gradually increased over the next 3-4 days until the total ideal caloric requirement is fed in 3-4 feedings........Prognosis is good if diagnosis is made early, treatment is begun, and the underlying disease, if any, can be treated.
*****
Some info on "hepatitis", which is different than "hepatic lipidosis", yet similar in remedy support from the book Prescription for Nutritional Healing (for People) by the Drs Balch.  This is a people book with human dosages.  For cats, divide the cats weight by 150 to get the approx. percentage of the human dose to give.  Always consult a holisitic vet when possible.

(PEOPLE dosages)

• Milk thistle extract (herb) - 2 capsules 3 x daily
• CoEnzyme Q10 - 60 mg daily
• DMG - as directed by label
• Germanium - 200 mg daily
• Lecithin - as directed taken before meals
• superoxide dismutase (SOD) - as directed on label
• Vitamin B complex - 100 mg daily
• Vitamin B12 / choline / inositol - as directed on label
• niacin (B3) - 50 mg  twice daily (avoid higher amounts until healed.)
• Betaine HCI and multienzymes - as directed on label
• calcium and magnesium - 1500 mg daily (calcium) and 1000 mg daily (magnes.)
• L-Methionine & L-cystine - 500 mg twice daily on empty stomach with small amount of B6 and C.
• Protein (free form amino acids) - as directed on label
• Unsaturated fatty acids (primrose oil, etc)- as directed on label
• Raw pancreas - as directed on label
• Vitamin A - 25000 IU daily  (Be careful of the "pill" form of Vit A.  The liver has to convert betacarotene to vit A, which puts a strain on the liver.  Emulsion form by-passes the liver)
• Vitamin C plus bioflavinoids - 3000-5000 mg daily.

Use black radish, dandelion, goldenseal, and red clover for hepatitis.  Silymarin (*milk thistle) may help repair the liver.

RECOMMENDATIONS:  (for people with hepatitis, but can be transferred to cats / dogs):

• Eat a raw veggie / fruit diet for two - four weeks.  Drink "green juices", carrot juice, and beet juice.  Start this diet with a cleansing fast (if healthy enough)
• Avoid all fats, alcohol, sugar, and highly processed foods.  Also, avoid drugs that have not been prescribed by your doctor.
• Drink only steam-distilled water.  Avoid all raw fish and shellfish and eat no animal protein [people recommendations.  I don't know about dogs / cats and avoiding animal protein]
• Use chlorophyll enemas three times a week.  [people recommendation]
• Place warm castor oil packs over the liver area.

• Alfalfa (leaves and flowers)
• Caraway (seeds) - liquid / tincture - contains B-complex vits and is high in calcium and potassium (which is needed if dehydrated)
• Chamomile (flower) - liquid / tea - high in calcium and magnesium with potassium, iron, magnese, and zinc.
• Gentian (root) - One of the best stomach tonics , is rich in natural sugar [*may be a problem if diabetic; double check to make sure], it is useful for strengthening the pancreas and spleen, as well as the kidneys. Used as an appetite stimulant in convalescing and weak patients.
• Hops (flower) - has a relaxing influence on the liver and gall duct and is also a laxative to the bowels.  It's main uses are to alleviate nervouse tension and promote restful sleep.  It is rich in B-vitamins, magnesium, and other minerals.
• Horseradish (root) - It has been used as a stimulant for digestion, metabolism, and kidney function.  Rich in vits. C, B1, sulphur, and potassium.  Also used for it's antibiotic action in respiratory and urinary infections.

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel
mailto:vick@

professr@ writes:
<<  I also pilled him today with 1 dandelion capsule.  I'm not sure what  else I can give him by mouth to either help his liver function nor to  stimulate his appetite.  There is a good source of herbs here (health  food store), and I have quite a supply on hand, like yellow dock, garlic, marshmallow, dandelion, echinacea, psyllium, alfalfa, golden seal, valerian, slippery elm, activated charcoal, lobelia.  I do not have a local source for homeopathics.  >>

The alfalfa should stimulate appetite.  You say that you do not have a source for homeopathics, but lycopodium in 30C potency is for anorexia and liver problems, giving one dose daily for 7 days.

Milk thistle protects and guards the liver.

Elaine Crews, N.D.

Hi all

Susan already quoted a whole bunch of wonderful stuff, but I thought I'd add some more just in case it's useful. Caroline and Judy, I hope some of this can help!! We're sending healing purrs your way.

The following is from Macleod's "Cats: Homeopathic Remedies".
Begin quote

Hepatitis

• Phosphorous: A most useful remedy. Stools clay coloured. Vomiting of water etc. May be accompanied by signs of bleeding gums. Suggested potency 30C, giving one dose twice daily for six days.
• Chelidonium: Jaundice usually accompanies. Mucous membranes yellow. Stools golden-yellow. 30C, one dose twice daily for 7 days.
• Lycopodium: More chronic cases showing indigestion and flatulence. Old subjects generally, aggravation of symptoms in late afternoon. Suggested potency 12C, giving one dose twice daily for 7 days: 1M giving one dose weekly for four weeks.
• Berberis: If there is an accompanying loin weakness. Smell in urine. Biley colic. 30C, one dose daily for 10 days.
• Chionanthus: Liver usually palpable. Jaundice: putty-like stools. 6C, one dose three times daily for 10 days.

Cirrhosis:

• Carduus Mar: This is one of the main remedies to consider as it has a proven record in alleviating the condition. Constitutionally the animal will be much more alert and take more interest in its surroundings and in food. 30C, one dose twice daily for 14 days.
• Phosphorous: If food and water are rejected shortly after ingestion this remedy should be considered. It has a profound action on the liver function. 200C, one dose twice weekly for four weeks.
• Lycopodium: Another valuable liver remedy for the older animal and one which shows a worsening of symptoms in the late afternoon and early evening. Stools are usually dry and shiny. 200C, one dose three times weekly for 3 weeks.
• Berberis: This remedy may help in providing stimulation of the portal circulation leading to reduction of abdominal fluid. Its action on the kidneys will further help in this connection. 30C, one dose daily for 10 days.
• Ptelea: A less well known remedy which has a beneficial action on the liver by acting as what is known as a drainage remedy, ie it helps cleanse the system in those cases where the liver (the main cleansing organ) is not functioning normally. 30C, one dose twice daily for 14 days.

From Richard Allport's "Heal Your Cat the Natural Way"

Homeopathically he suggests Carduus, Chelidonium, lycopodium, nux vomica and phosphorous. Herbals: Blue flag, centaury, southernwood, dandelion, or yellow dock (how or why he missed milk thistle I don't know). Tissue salts: Nat sulph. Chinese medicine: One plum should be dices and given on alternate days. Also, 1/2 tsp each of chopped chicory and kohl rabi daily.

Diane Stein's "The Natural Remedy Book for Dogs and Cats":
begin quote

The diet needs to be totally free of chemicals, high in lean meat, raw vegetables and cooked whole grains, and very low in fats. The homemade diet with supplements is best, feeding 3 or 4 small meals per day rather than one or two large ones. Cottage cheese and eggs are positive, but if giving other milk products, only soured ones like yogurt and kefir are allowed. When using Dr. Pitcairn's Dog/Cat powders and Oils, eliminate the oils until the pet is healed, then return them gradually, but give vitamin E.

If using Anitra Frazier's Vita-Mineral Mix, use the following altered recipe for cats, giving a teaspoon per meal plus 1/4 tsp of cod liver oil:

• 1 1/2 C yeast
• 1/2 C kelp or trace mineral powder
• 2C lecithin
• 2C bonemeal, calcium lactate or calcium gluconate [?? Don't know why these amounts aren't modified for different ingredients.]
• 1 1/2C bran

Naturopathy: This is a toxicity dis-ease, and the healing begins with a fast of a few days, particularly if the pet has a fever [My note: fasting cats is a real judgement call, and I wouldn't want a cat to not eat for any more than a day, two at the very most. JMHO. She's also got info here about enemas which I can post if anyone is brave enough.] Start the cat or dog on daily aloe vera juice with liquid chlorophyll -- constipation is to be avoided in this dis-ease. Give grated raw organic beets or beet juice in the diet, starting slowly and increasing gradually to a tsp for cats [My note: if this is for fiber, pumpkin may be more easily accepted. Ah, no, Pitcairn says that beets are a liver stimulant.] Also give grated carrots. Dr.  Richard Pitcairn suggests using this daily, but work up to it very slowly to prevent too intensive a detox too fast. Fresh parsley is also recommended by Dr. Pitcairn, one to two tablespoons daily. Digestive enzymes are important with the meals, and Anitra Frazier adds 1/4 tsp of liquid  acidophilus daily, lactose free. Garlic is positive, as are kelp and cider vinegar. If using honey or bee products, feed half the usual amount for easier digestion.

Vitamins and Minerals: Feed the daily supplements of the optimal diet, altered as given above. Vitamin C with bioflavonoids is important for detoxifying and regenerating the liver; give 500-2000 mg per day or go to bowel tolerance. Give a low-potency yeast-free B complex tablet, with additional lecithin, and a liquid liver extract from a health food store. Combination amino acids, or a liver-designated amino acid mix with cysteine, glutathionine and methionine, protect the liver and aid detoxification; several of these liver combinations are available. Increase the amounts of vitamins A and E [My note: be very very very careful with the amounts of A here. She says that Anitra Frazier suggests 10,000 IU of A 3 times a week for 3 weeks, giving 400 IU of vitamin D once a week. My personal feeling is that that's way high.] CoQ10 oxygenates and is a liver protector. Pat Lazarus recommends vitamin B15 (pangamic acid).

Herbs: A number of herbs are liver cleansers. The most gentle and reliable is dandelion, but milk thistle also repairs the liver; use the two together. Other liver herbs include celandine, rosemary, burdock, black radish, Oregon grape root, horsetail grass, chamomile, clover, echinacea, goldenseal or yellow dock. Juliette de Bairacli Levi recommends bitters: gentian root, wormwood, southernwood, centaury, blue pimpernel, St. John's Wort or rhubarb. Swedish bitters is a liver tonic available in health food stores; these must be mixed with honey for a pet to accept them. Raspberry or strawberry leaf clears liver congestion, and agrimony helps jaundice. Remember, dandelion and milk thistle are the primary herbs.

Homeopathy: For jaundice when the animal also has alternating diarrhea and constipation, and vomiting, try Nux vomica every four hours for a few days. Chelidonium majus (celandine) is the most recommended liver and jaundice remedy, again given every 4 hours until the jaundice disappears, or by the observation method [which she doesn't explain here]. Give phosphorous when there are clay-coloured stools, gum hemorrhages and vomiting soon after eating or drinking; the cat's abdomen is too tender to touch. When the animal can eat only a little at a time, and the symptoms are worse in the late afternoon and early evening, the remedy is Lycopodium. This is usually a thin, older pet, prematurely grey. Berberis is used when the cat vomits early in the morning, has poor appetite and pain over the back with weak legs. Give Chionanthus when other remedies fail and there is jaundice and putty-like stools. Liver dis-ease is serious; consult an experienced veterinary homeopath.

Acupuncture/Acupressure: Cat acupressure points have no specific liver coordinates; try #15 on the Ottaviano Cat Acupressure Chart for blood cleansing, #22 for lack of appetite and as a general tonic. [My note: I don't know where these points are offhand, but can look them up if anyone's interested.]
end quote

Another thought is to try glandulars. These unfortunately take quite some time to work and may not be appropriate in these acute situations, but I've had good success with them for Kashmir's hyperthyroid. Something to consider, anyway.
Take care all
Kathy and the cats
kashmir@

Hi Jim and Dena,

I saved a cat with hepatic lipidodsis a few years ago...I still have her and she is doing great...the main thing that saves a cat from this is getting food into them...I spent over a month force feeding Toby 5-6 times per day and if one of you is home to do that I would choose to do the feedings yourself over having a peg tube surgically implanted (the last thing a sick cat needs is to deal with the stress of surgery and the effects of anesthetics as the liver has to process that too)...I did not use any conventional meds to fix this cat....valium is toxic to the liver but is often prescribed by vets to stimulate appetite but if you
are waiting for the valium and not force feeding more damage is being done in addition to the toxicity of the valium itself ...I was also given prednisone and antibiotics none of which I gave her ( I called the vet and asked if she had an infection warranting the antibiotics and they said no, it was "just in case" and the pred was for inflammation, which again was for "just in case....I am not one to dump in chemicals "just in case").

I treated her with herbs and good food force fed, homeopathics and treatment from my holistic vet.....and lots of love and attention...it took her 5 weeks to eat on her own so you have to be VERY aggressive with treating this problem and I can not stress enough that you need to be constantly getting food into her in small amounts....if you think of anything you want more info on feel free to ask...hope she gets better soon.

Links on Hepatic Lipidosis for you to read and it would be best to make your own feed to force feed as you can get much better quality that what you can get comercially....I can give you the mix that I force fed Toby if you like.
 

• http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cehepatlip.html
• http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/ceps/petcolumns/lipid.htm
• http://www.bergenrecord.com/home/qa111319971111o5.htm

Tammy