From: SandyC7606@
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:05:32 EDT

Puff is hyperthyroid.   She was given nat. mur 100x in August and her values have continued to rise from 1.9 and 2.1 (when she was on Tapazole) to 6.1 from her last blood test three weeks ago.  We decided to try 200x Monday nite.  We discussed the possibility of two other remedies if this one doesn't get any results this time.  Nat. mur, I guess is kind of a standard catch all tissue
salt.  The other two, I can't remember the names, would be if she has a greasy coat or the other one for cats that have had alot of multiple vaccinations. We also discussed the possibility of going back on Tapazole.

The vet said 6.1 isn't terribly high.  I think 4.0 is the high normal.  He's seen cats with a T-4 reading of 15.  He has cured his own cat of hyperthyroidism but he has said that it might take a year or longer to cure Puff and I believe it.

With the first dose of 100x this summer I saw an eye discharge that Puff never had but that was the only result.  I think she is starting to display the classic hyperthyoid syptoms, ferocious appetitie and abit agressive, although aggressiveness was always Puff's personality.  Aggresiveness is probably not the right description but she was never a lap cat.

I had mentioned to the vet a greasy coat but I think it's strictly related to when she eats more organ meat.  So I'm not sure if that remedy is the right one for her.  I guess I'm not sold on nat. mur being the right one for her either.  The one that I think fits is the one for cats whose immune systems  have been suppressed by cortisone and vaccines.  Puff used to get her vaccinations every years, multiple ones and at the same time (in the fall) she would have problems with skin irrations.  The skin irrations would usually come first, that how we ended up with the vaccinations in the fall schedule. She would be given cortisone injections and I think antibotics to take.  This would happen only once a year but it was consistent for the last 6 years, since I've lived where I'm living now.

So anyway, I've noticed a definite increase in her appetitie and crying more for food.  So I'm not sure how long we will wait if the nat. mur doesn't show results.  I[m almost thinking she should go back on the Tapazole for awhile.

If the other two remedies ring a bell with anyone and your've used them for hyperthryoid disease with your cat, I'd be interested in hearing the results. Also I'm concerned about 200x, it seems like a strong dosage.  I know it's too late now to do anything about it but...........

Sandy

Dr. Wil Winter said kelp normalized thyroid function. This means both hyper and hypo.

Yumi
mailto:yumig@

One of the homeopathic books suggested that using Nat Mur (chronic dosage) for hyperthyroidism will curtail further loss of weight or increased weakness.

--Jean, Saski Basket & Amber Sweet T'ing
  wordlady@i

hi All

don't  know if any of you have read Dr Strombeck's book yet, "Home Prepared Dog and Cat Diets", but he says that hyperthyroid in cats is attributed to feeding canned foods. He says that it is unknown why this happens. There is no reference to that particular comment, but he mentions a citation from the Waltham symposium(page 299 and 305)...

I think that, overall, this book is good, and would like to be able to afford to buy it for our allopathic vets! ......he goes into great detail about food allergies, and is very much adamant about owner prepared diets, altho, the recipes are cooked, at least he is saying that commercial foods are really poor "nutrition" for our companions. IMO, the book is worth the $34.
--
Mary Wulff-Tilford, DiHom;Professional  Herbalist,AHG
ANIMALS' APAWTHECARY

Hi all

<<I guess here I first need to clear on a definition of "herb". I'm trying to wrap my mind around kelp being a herb, and am failing miserably, as I tend to think of it as a combination of minerals. ??>>

Actually, that was me asking the question, not Leah. She did give me an answer, though :) And thanks for clarifying this further, Nancy!

<<And I couldn't find any info on how it works if your thyroid is over-active  already like we see in our kitties frequently. Maybe it can cause an imbalance or worsening of the case if used without taking precise amounts? I sure don't know, but after seeing all this, I'd have to go with those of you expressing concern and caution.>>

I don't know either, Nancy, but I'm also not comfortable for that very reason -- too many unknowns.

<<Diane Stein gives a lot of interesting info on kelp in her Natural Remedy Book. One of things she mentions is, "D.C.Jarvis uses kelp to balance hypertension and relieve angina and heart pain, to aid bone healing after fractures, and to heal and prevent mineral deficiencies of all sorts." Now, this is just the opposite of what Kathy's research on kelp and high bp revealed. Arrggh! What's a kitty Mom to do?>>

Actually, Nancy, you may be confusing this with Bugleweed, which is what the high blood pressure cautions refer to. I've not read about concerns with kelp and high blood pressure unless it relates to a raised iodine intake and hbp. That's not based on any research I've done for cats, though.

I looked at this info that you've just posted from the Stein book, and again, while I think that kelp can do some wonderful things, I'm more reassured than ever about using a straight trace mineral supplement. She notes on p. 38: "Kelp supplies minerals to the body, minerals that are important in every aspect of dog and cat health and healing. Alfred Plechner's dietary research found the following benefits of feeding pets a *trace mineral powder, which kelp is* [my emphasis], over a six month period...." and she goes on to list several things, including better fur health and better general health.

So it seems to me that we can have these same benefits without the iodine, which is a direct concern for me. Although I do know that iodine is basic to thyroid function, I still haven't seen any evidence to show what the specific actions are on various thyroid conditions.

Again, Nancy, thanks for posting all of this. The more info I can gather, the better for taking care of Kashmir's thyroid. :)

Take care
Kathy and the cats
kashmir@

Hi everybody,

Missy, I hope Ted is okay.... I looked up hypothyroidism in The Cornell Book of Cats.  The authors say if a kitty does have this s/he will have  to have a thyroid hormone supplement, so I'm thinking thyroid glandulars maybe?

Here's what Puotinen says about thyroid imbalances (both hyper & hypo)in _The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care_, pp 440-41:

begin quote:
If your pet has an under- or overactive thyroid, work with a holistic veterinarian as these conditions require careful monitoring.  The following suggestions apply to healthy pets.

To Prevent Thyroid Problems

• Feed a well-balanced natural, raw diet and occasional raw glandular supplements...
• Give your animal exposure to natural light, for malillumination is a contributing cause of all glandular problems.
• The mineral iodine is essential to thyroid health and one of its richest sources is seaweed.  Supplement your pet's food with small quantities of kelp and unrefined sea salt to prevent deficiencies.
• The adaptogen herbs astragalus, ashwagandha, ginseng, fo-ti, Siberian ginseng and schisandra help balance hormone production throughout the body.  Any of these herbs can be given in small amounts as a general tonic; blends containing these herbs and kelp, raw glandular extracts and the amino acid tyrosine are popular supplements for improved thyroid health.
• Essiac tea...has been used as a support therapy in the treatment of thyroid disorders in people.  Many pet owners give their dogs and cats Essiac tea from time to time as a blood cleansing tonic to help maintain hormone balance."

"Natural heart worm prevention," Puotinen writes, "consists of two parts: (1) protecting your d*g with nutrition and vermifuge herbs on the  inside so the heartworms that enter her bloodstream can't thrive, and (2) repelling mosquitoes on the outside so she isn't infected in the first place."  We know what's good for the d*g, isn't necessarily good for the cat.  I'm not going to list the herbs because some of these are probably toxic to kitties.  I'm betting others will know which vermifuge herbs are okay to use w/ kits.

Now you all know what I do when I get insomnia :)))! Missy, I'm wishing the best for Ted.  Please keep the list updated.

Susan
mailto:katseven@

Missy, I went back and re-read your post and realized you want more info on the disease itself. There's a brief description of hypothyroidism & its symptoms in cats at the Cornell Vet consultant. Vick posted the URL for me back in January.  Thanks, Vick!  Here's the site's URL: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/consultant/consult.asp

You can just type in hypothyroidism, choose the feline species :), and hit diagnoses.  It's pretty handy although if you're not familiar w/ medical terminology you'd better keep a dictionary handy:)

In Prescrip, the Balchs note some people symptoms for hypothyroidism: "fatigue, loss of appetite, inability to tolerate cold, a slow heart  rate, weight gain, ...muscle weakness, muscle cramps, dry and scaly skin, a yellow-orange coloration in the skin, yellow bumps on the eyelids, hair loss, recurrent infections, constipation, depression, difficulty concentrating, slow speech, goiter, and drooping, swollen eyes.  The most common symptoms are fatigue and intolerance to cold." (334)

Susan
mailto:katseven@
 

HYPOTHYROIDISM IN CATS (from Consultant site)

Description:
Absence of the thyroid gland or atrophy of the gland due to prolonged dietary iodine deficiency can cause signs of hypothyroidism in cats. In addition to other signs the head may be broad due to edema. Congenital defects such open eyes and cleft palate can be seen if fetuses can be carried to term, and parturion may be difficult. Dx by dietary analysis and thyroid
hormone assay. Primary hypothyroidism has been reported (Rand et al.); radioiodine therapy or surgery can cause inatrogenic hypothyroidism. Hair loss appears to be limited to the lateral and medial distal halves of both pinnae and is not always present. Diagnosis and treatment were discussed by Mooney.

Signs:
Alopecia, Anestrus, Anorexia, Bradycardia, Decreased amount of stools, absent feces, constipation, Dryness of skin or hair , Dullness, Dystocia , Female infertility, Hyperkeratosis, Hypothermia, Lack of growth or weight gain, Matted or dirty hair , Overweight, Rough hair coat, Skin edema , Skin scales

References:
[Web Reference] PubMed
MOONEY C. unusual endocrine disorders in the cat. in practice 1998;20:345-349
MERCHANT SR, TABOADA J. endocrinopathies, thyroid and adrenal disorders. vet clin n a: small anim pract 1997;27:1285-1303

Hi Missy and List:

My kitty Mr. Mao was diagnosed with hypothyroidism a couple of years ago. I took him to a holistic vet and he was given two types of medications. One was called Tri-40 and it is "iodine with thyroid, thymus and spleen concentrates."  The other was called Endocrine Master which is a dietary supplement.  He was to stay on them for a year.  I just had his blood checked this past October and his thyroid levels were back to normal and he is doing well.

Mr. Mao's fur got really greasy and unkempt looking.  He was really crabby and isolated himself from the other cats.  I should note that he didn't gain weight, it was the quality of his fur and his bad disposition that were the most apparent.  Mr. Mao is normally a real mush cat, lots of personality and while he doesn't really groom or cuddle with the other cats he isn't unsociable either.  He's basically a daddy's boy.

My vet said to be glad it wasn't hyperthyroidism because that is a lot more difficult to control as I'm sure Kathy and Kashmir can attest to.   The one frustrating thing was that it definitely took at least two to three months before he really started getting back to himself.   There was no quick fix, but he is back to himself now - thankfully.

Hope that helps a little.  Incidentally, my vet was surprised by his test results because it is quite uncommon in cats.  Thankfully, it's treatable.

PS  I've heard nasty nasty stuff about Program but in true "Candy" fashion, didn't save any of the articles.

Candy
cjh@

Welcome, Cecelia, Furball, and Twig!

I have no personal experience w/ hyperthyroidism in cats, but I looked up a couple of references regarding this condition.  The first book I checked was _Four Paws Five Directions_ by Cheryl Schwartz, DVM.  She describes the condition as so serious and delicate that it requires professional vet. care.  Since you have already seen an allo. vet, perhaps you might consider consulting a vet. knowledgeable in alternative healing modalities.

Schwartz gives some dietary recommendations, but does not even attempt to give herbal recommendations (this is the first time I've noticed this w/ Dr. Schwartz's book, and I use it quite often).  Her dietary rec.s include neutral foods such as beef, cod, eggs, chicken gizzards, brown rice, polenta, string beans, aduki beans, lentils, kidney beans, [cooked] potatoes, or yams.  If the cat is irritable, the following foods may help: barley, millet, whole wheat bread, clams, celery and spinach.  (These food rec.s are based on TCM [traditional Chinese medicine] food therapies; some others might question the usage of, say, spinach which when cooked contains oxalic acid, I believe, for a cat whose kidneys are already being stressed.)

Schwartz goes on to say that high fat diets are very hard for the cat w/ hyperthyroid to break down, so kitty should be given foods which are easily digested. Schwartz recommends pancreatic/digestive enzymes to aid digestion.  She recommends a diet which is 40% animal  protein, 50% grain, and 10% vegetables.  (I would definitely check w/ a holistic vet w/ exp. w/ hyperthyroid kitties before starting something like this--these proportions are so  contrary to all I've been learning about feline nutrition on this list, tho I *know* kidney kitties are special cases.) I hope others w/ hyperthyroid kits can give you some first-hand exp. w/
diet, etc.

Richard Allport, DVM, in _Heal Your Cat The Natural Way_ notes that the herbs bugleweed and motherwort may be given as infusions for a hyperthyroid cat. Here's some information on how to dose w/ herbs  from the _Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care_, p. 136:

"SUGGESTED DOSE FOR THE FIRST-TIME USE OF ANY HERB
 

ANIMAL'S WEIGHT	TINCTURE	SIZE00 CAPSULE	TEA
5-10 lbs	2 drops	1/2 cap	1 tsp
10-20 lbs	4 drops	1 cap	2 tsp

All preparations should be given 3 times daily. "

I hope this helps!

Susan
mailto:katseven@

Hi all

Welcome Cecilia, Twig and Furball!

I, too, have had nothing but problems with tapazole. Kashmir simply will not eat when she's on it. Since forcefeeding isn't an option when she's feeling ok (boy, can she fight!) we had to take her off the tapazole.

Couple of things that worked for us. I say worked in the past tense, because they were working till she got sick in Feb. and now we're back at the beginning. First, my vet told me to feed her as often as she wants to eat. That's easy for me b/c for the moment I'm at home most days. She wants to eat a lot, but never more than a bite or two at a time. I've compromised
and feed her 3 meals a day.

Glandulars, or to be more specific, PMGs, from a company called Standard Process. You can only get the products from a "practitioner of the healing arts" (that line cracks me up :) In other words, a naturopath, holistic vet, homeopath, etc. I got mine from a naturopath in town and he gave me a bit of grief about why I wanted it for my cat, and tried to sell me a bunch  of other stuff, but I ended up with what I needed. The products are Thytrophin and Cardiotrophin (Kashmir also has an enlarged heart).

After about a month I saw gradual improvement. But it took a few months before I felt convinced that it was under control. I also feed her raw food, lots of extra vitamin C, a little extra vitamin E, and whatever other supplements I feel like adding to the batch of food. Kashmir doesn't get anything that won't go in her food.

So the PMGs worked well. But she got *really* sick in Feb with vomiting and diarrhea, and we've been back at square one since then. I think our best hope is homeopathy, and as soon as I find some time I can get Kashmir's remedy pinpointed.

Bugleweed (aka lycopus) is supposed to be the hyperthyroid herb. I was all excited when I heard about it but quickly decided against it for a bunch of reasons. I tried the homeopathic lycopus but it wasn't the right remedy. I just wanted to mention that in case someone tells you that bugleweed would be a good thing to try. I'm not at all convinced that it's a good idea for
people, let alone cats.

Vits C and E are important. I don't have dosages for the E handy (can look them up later) but C to bowel tolerance. Kashmir gets about 1000 mg of calcium ascorbate a day, and I'm sure she could take more. She also gets 2-4 drops of trace minerals a day. I've read some info that discusses the relationship between hyperthyroid and nutrition (people info) and it seems that trace minerals are a good way to ensure she's getting what she needs. Every few days she also gets a multivitamin. Here in Prince George (BC) the only kind I can get are Felobits, but she likes them and they look good.

I'm quickly running out of time here so I have to cut it short for now. I know there are others on the list who have hyperthyroid cats too, and I hope they can provide you with more info. I'll write later too.

Take care
Kathy and the cats
kashmir@

On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, josephdevney wrote:

<<I can tell you the reason I haven't tried homeopathic thyroid on Face. It's easy.  I can't find it at the health food store.  I've been to 3,  and the GNC in my neighborhood, and haven' found the homeopathic thyroid.>>

Debbie, Kathy, and all - Natra-Bio brand makes something called "Thyroid Support".  This has "Active Thyroidinum 8X"; the rest is alcohol as a preservative.  This is a sarcode and u can find info on it at the site I posted a month or so ago: http://www.homeoint.org Look for Allen's MM/Readings, and there, u should be able to find a remedy profile for Thyroidinum to determine a match.

FWIW, GNCs usually carry Natra-Bio stuff.

Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats