<from Jill 3/8/99 re: URI>
Brinet opaula wrote:
>
> Hi List
>
> Welcome to the new babies,they're so cute!  Reading the posts make me wish get another baby ( mine already has 1year
> and a month), but unfortunately I had the three elders infected by this baby with Feline Herpes Virus, so it's not wise to put a
> new one.
>
> I have a question I always read someone talking about URI. What is it, it's the same that Herpes or is a milder decease?
> Cheers
>               Odila and the brazilien kitties

Feline herpes is the rhino virus.  Try giving L-Lysine daily in the  food.  Lysine is an amino acid and will divert the herpes from becoming full blown.  As long as you see no signs of the virus, the cat is probably not contagious at that time.  Your cat may never show the signs again, but it is a virus and therefore will remain in the system.  I have one cat that is now one year old.  I got him at 6-1/2 monts and he had the virus.  I was able to get it under control with the Lysine and GSE in his water bowl.  I have four other cats that have not gotten the virus and most likely will not as they have most likely developed an immunity to it.  As long as you get the symptoms under contol, do not be afraid to bring another cat into the house.  Keep the new cat separated from the one with the symptoms until the symtoms go away.

Jill

When I first got my cat, he had severe sinus and runny eye problems.  My vets said herpes and I started him on Lysine every day.  Also, nebulizing with saline, putting saline up his nose, GSE mixed with water down his throat and Ambrotose.  He was sneezing every day, a lot and big green chunks.  After doing all this to him, it all stopped.  Just a little runny eye (clear) and no sneezing.  I don't know which of these remedies did the trick.  I still put Lysine in his food every day.

He is a show cat and stress is what brings on the symptoms.  We have been going to shows almost every week end, but he is still fine, no sign of the virus.  Hopefully it is buried forever.

Jill

Hi Candy,

I think with the herpes virus it can be just eyes or nose at first, but if left unattended both become infected pretty quickly.  Herpesvirus affects nose, eyes, and upper respiratory tract.  Calici virus can cause mouth ulcers with less involvement of the eyes and nose and sometimes causes pneumonia in weakened kitties (young ones esp.).

Susan

HO>Does anyone know whether herpes in cats is displayed as both eyes and nose runny or can it be just a runny nose or just HO>runny eyes.  Thanks.

Noreen,

I'm guessing Nugget is infected with the calici virus because it doesn't sound like herpes/rhinotracheitis or chlamydia (the common bacterial one).  If your vet does dx herpes or chlamydia let me know and i'll send you that stuff, too.  The following rec's are from Macleod's book, specifically for the calici virus resp. infections (pp149-50):

1. Merc. Sol.  This remedy is indicated when salivation is excessive. It will have a beneficial action throughout the mouth generally although seldom indicated when ulceration is present.  There is a general dirty look to the mouth and the patient is worse from sunset to sunrise. Suggested in the 30c potency, giving one dose daily for 14 days.

2.  Borax.  This is a useful remedy to consider when involvement of oral mucous membranes is accompanied by ulceration.  Nervous sysmptoms develop, the patient showing fear under certain conditions.  There is a strong aversion to ascending stairs or jumping from chairs etc. Salivation is again excessive and there may also be tenderness of foot pads.  Suggested potency 6c, giving one dose three times daily for 14 days.

3.  Phosphorus.  This remedy should prove helpful when pneumonia supervenes.  There is usually rapid involvement of lung tissue with severe  difficulty in breathing.  Expectoration is scanty and is blood-stained.  There may be involvement of the liver when this remedy is indicated, bilous vomiting being a feature.  Water and food is rejected shortly after ingestion and stools are pasty or clay coloured. [Here, I have to stop quoting because Macleod suggests a 200c potency twice weekly for six weeks....seems high and you probably wouldn't be able to find it anyway..Sandy, Leah what do you think about a lower potency?]

Macloed also lists a Nosode for calici virus.  I've gotta go now, but I'll send more later if you need it.

Susan

Noreen,  when Lillian has had her URI's, what helped clear her up was nasal drops.  I diluted 2-4 drops GSE, 2-4 drops CS, in 2 oz H2O with a pinch of sea salt in it.  My roommate and I would  tilt her head back and put a few drops in each nostril, and she would usually give a big sneeze after and get rid of a lot of junk that way.  We would do this several times a day and continue it for a couple of days after her congestion and nasal discharge clears up.  You might also consider applying eye drops with eyebright in it instead of the GSE as the tear ducts and sinuses are all connected. I have tried the above solutions on myself and they didn't burn or sting at all and Lillian has tolerated them well with repeated uses.  Good Luck,
Kathy B

Jill ~

Django had a really goopy eye when he first came to me....I tried the vet's antibiotic solution & several forms of eye drops - everything helped a bit but nothing really worked until this recipe:

Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care has an eyewash recipe that you can make and use with a dropper (or cotton ball ala Anitra Frazier, which I prefer): calendula, chamomile or eyebright teas, OR: equal parts of greater celandine, eyebright and St. John's Wort.  (I made the eyebright tea).  Pour 1 cup boiling water over 2 tsp blend, add a *teeny* pinch of cayenne, let it steep and filter it through a coffee filter, then add just enough sea salt to make it slightly saline like tears. Add two drops grapefruit seed extract per 1 cup tea. Use a dropper, or soak a cotton ball and rub her eye with it.

I tested the solution on my own eyes first, & it was totally comfortable -  Django certainly liked it a lot better than the vet's antibiotics.

Good Luck ~

Jillian & the Blue Eyed Boyz

In a message dated 5/8/99 1:25:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, katseven@writes:
 <<  Also, Elaine has mentioned a  herpes treatment which I'd like to try but I can't find her post right now :(  >>

It's called VS-C by Nature's Sunshine.  Comes in either extract or capsules. I love it and use it on either adults, kittens, or myself!

Elaine

Hi,
   My name is Barbara and I am new to the list - heard about it either on Wellpet or K9Nutrition.  My cat is Thomas, a 6-year-old orange tabby I adopted a year ago.  He is an indoor cat on a natural diet (ala Pitcairn and Frazier) and also gets a chicken neck a few times a week.  He's a really cool cat - absolutely LOVES dogs and has two canine sisters that he's constantly grooming.  My lab is shedding big time right now, so I anticipate finding a huge furball of lab hair horked up on the carpet any day now :)

Thomas has had a chronic stuffy nose since I aquired him and apparently a history of upper respiratory ailments.  Antibiotics help for a short period of time but the sniffles always return.  He seldom sneezes, never coughs, but seems to have a hard time breathing thru his nose.  Otherwise, he is eating and playing and doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as I am.  I have tried the nose drops with golden seal suggested in Anitra Fraziers book but they don't seem to have much affect and Thomas absolutely hates having it done.  Can I put the golden seal in his food?  Will it do any good?

Also, yesterday I found a blob of snot on the windowsill he usually hangs out in so I think we might have an infection going on again.  Are antibiotics my only recourse?  Would this be a good candidate for colloidal silver?  I'm new to homeopathy, but am willing to try anything so appreciate any suggestions.

TIA
Barbara

Hi everybody, Barbara,

Welcome to the list!  I put together a FAQ on URIs on the holisticat website <http://www.holisticat.com> but I didn't include any homeopathic remedies in that FAQ...I need to do that! anyhow, you might try some of the nutritional & herbal suggestions on the FAQ.

Thomas is probably infected w/ either the calici virus or herpes virus, so antibiotics won't really help.  My George has trouble w/ the herpes virus.   A chronic URI indicates a weak immune system, so you'll want to bolster that, too.  For instance, George is also FeLV+, so he can never quite shake the herpesvirus altogether--however, his problems are fairly minimal (just a runny eye now after the initial severe URI).  I give him CoQ10, thymus, and ambrotose, as well as a natural diet.  I've also just started George on a two-week course of Compounded Bloodroot/Celandine tincture (by Gaia)--According to the Naturopathic Handbook of  Herbal Formulas, "this compound is used to manage the progression of retroviruses at the genetic level of the cell.  retro-viruses include HIV, Epstein Barr Virus, mononucleosis, and herpes."  So I'm giving this a try and will let you all know if I see any improvement.

Susan

Barbara G wrote:
> have tried the nose drops with golden seal suggested in Anitra Fraziers book  but they don't seem to have much affect and
> Thomas absolutely hates having it done.  Can I put the golden seal in his food?  Will it do any good?

Hi Barbara and welcome to the list.  Goldenseal is quite bitter so I doubt he'd accept it in his food.  You could try other supplements and herbs - Vit C, mullein, astragalus, and garlic come to mind.

>Also, yesterday I found a blob of snot on the windowsill he usually hangs out in so I think we might have an infection going on
> again.  Are antibiotics my only recourse?  Would this be a good candidate for colloidal silver?  I'm new to homeopathy, but
> am willing to try anything so appreciate any suggestions.

What color was the snot?  Some people do have great success w/ colloidal silver.  Another option is to give him GSE tablets for the infection, and treat him w/ homeopathy for his chronic condition.

Some remedies you can read up on, and then decide based on his symptoms, are: Hepar Sulph, Pulsatilla, Phosphorous, and Lachesis.  There are many others, but I just named these off the top of my head as they are the ones which come up most frequently for this problem.

If you don't have a Materia Medica (MM), you can read about these remedies at this URL:
http://www.homeoint.org/books/allkeyn/default.htm
http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/default.htm

At that homeoint site, there is also a Repertory you can check out if you want to look up which other remedies might fit Thomas' symptoms.

Good luck, and hope poor Thomas feels better real soon (he and I suffer from the same problem so I empathize:)
--
Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats

> My name is Barbara and I am new to the list - heard about it either on  Wellpet or K9Nutrition.  My cat is Thomas, a 6-year-old
> orange tabby I adopted a year ago.

Welcome Barbara and Thomas :)

> Thomas has had a chronic stuffy nose since I aquired him and  apparently a history of upper respiratory ailments.  Antibiotics
> help  for a short period of time but the sniffles always return.  He seldom sneezes, never coughs, but seems to have a hard
> time  breathing thru  his nose.

The raw diet will help get him in peak condition, so that's a great start. Antibiotics are likely never gonna help him permanently - it really sounds like a virus as Susan suggested..... Have you tried taking him in the bathroom when you shower? That always loosened up my cats' congestion when they would get sick. I am lucky enough to have some pretty amenable cats, so I have had good success w/ Frazier's nose drops.... It's a pity Thomas doesn't understand you're just trying to help :(

> out in so I think we might have an infection going on again.  Are antibiotics my only recourse?  Would this be a good
> candidate for  colloidal silver?  I'm new to homeopathy, but am willing to try anything so appreciate any suggestions.

If it's viral, the only potential good for antibiotics is warding off a secondary infection, so I'd avoid 'em unless that's a real concern. I've not used Colloidal Silver but I know Emily has, so hopefully she'll respond to that question. Elaine - what about that anti viral you're always mentioning? (I've got scatterbrain syndrome deluxe today - sorry!! 7 hours of classes on 4 hours sleep will do that to ya!)

 Hugs and purrs to poor sniffly Thomas :)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

In a message dated 5/10/99 9:23:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vick@ writes:
<<  If it's viral, the only potential good for antibiotics is warding off a  secondary infection, so I'd avoid 'em unless that's a real concern. I've  not used Colloidal Silver but I know Emily has, so hopefully she'll  respond to that question. Elaine - what about that anti viral you're  always mentioning? (I've got scatterbrain syndrome deluxe today -  sorry!! 7 hours of classes on 4 hours sleep will do that to ya!) >>

That would be Nature's Sunshine VS-C, comes in capsules and extract.  Actually, I had the chance to use it myself a few days ago.  My nose suddenly started to run, and I felt like I was coming down with a cold.  I took 4  capsules at bedtime and it never became a cold!!!!

For stuffy noses, I do like colloidal silver.  Just squirt into each nostril.  Stand back when you let go, because they will snot out a big bunch of green goop!!!!

Elaine

In a message dated 5/10/99 9:23:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vick@ writes:

<< If it's viral, the only potential good for antibiotics is warding off a  secondary infection, so I'd avoid 'em unless that's a real concern. I've  not used Colloidal Silver but I know Emily has, so hopefully she'll  respond to that question.  >>

I think Elaine answered the question already. Yes, when in doubt a good rule of thumb is to use colloidal silver. It is harmless and can be used internally and externally and kills all sorts of things including viruses without doing any damage. The only thing that is recommended is that if it is going to be taken internally for an extended period of time, to take acidophilous (sp) along with it.

Emily

<< Some remedies you can read up on, and then decide based on his symptoms, are: Hepar Sulph, Pulsatilla, Phosphorous, and Lachesis.  There are many others, but I just named these off the top of my head as they are the ones which come up most frequently for this problem.>>

I also have a snotty nose kitty- a pregnant foster shelter cat. I'm giving her ech, vit c, and herbal compound from NR, and I want to start giving her the phos remedy. Is this appropriate for a pregnant cat? What is the dosage, or how do I give it to her? Do I dissolve them in spring water, and how much, how often? Thanks!
Megan L

Megan L wrote:

> I also have a snotty nose kitty- a pregnant foster shelter cat.  I'm giving her ech, vit c, and herbal compound from NR,
> and I want to start giving her the phos remedy. Is this appropriate for a  pregnant cat?

Megan, I'd be leery of giving anything but general support stuff (like u already are, which is good) to a p.g kitty.  The kittens may not need Phos and given hoe delicate they can be, I'd avoid it.  How far along is the mama-to-be?

> What is the dosage, or  how do I give it to her? Do I dissolve them in spring water, and how much, how often?

I give all remedies in spring water - 1 pellet in a brown dropper bottle. U re-dose only if there is some improvement, but still room for more.  If there is no improvement, it was the wrong remedy, and u need to regroup and figure out a diff remedy.

Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats

In a message dated 5/12/99 8:17:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, njjohnson@ writes

<< But herpes infection will remain with a cat for life,  although the symptoms can be controlled most of the time.  Stress etc.
 will bring on an attack usually. >>

This is the common misconception (above) that herpes is incurable. In fact it is curable as people are being cured daily. Patients can be  cured of herpes or any virus for that matter. Colloidal Siver has proven to be effective in  killing viruses. Also, Aquaphase-V (V- for Virus), a combo homeopathic is another perhaps better alternative. So yes you can keep the virus at bay with lysine or whatever to keep the herpes symptoms at bay  OR you can choose to attack the virus itself which would rid the body of the herpes condition. My doctor (20 yr naturopath and former allopath who also uses homeopathy) does this on a regular basis.

I know this is a new concept and not yet well accepted by the majority of the list but mark my words. Eventually, it *has* to become more common knowledge.

Emily

GoForaSail@ writes

In a message dated 5/12/99 8:17:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, njjohnson@writes:
<< But herpes infection will remain with a cat for life, although the symptoms can be controlled most of the time.  Stress etc.
will bring on an attack usually.>>

<<This is the common misconception (above) that herpes is incurable. In fact it is curable as people are being cured daily.
Patients can be  cured of herpes  or any virus for that matter.>>

I've not heard of AIDS being curable,  but I am sure someone will tell us that it is.

>Colloidal Siver has proven to be effective in killing viruses. Also, Aquaphase-V (V- for Virus), a combo homeopathic is
>another perhaps better alternative.

What is the Aquaphase-V composed of,  I am quite interested to know what's in the combo? Colloidal  Silver is good for all sorts of things I know  - I do actually use it myself,  and on my cats!

Naomi

Boy, you guys are so helpful!  I checked out the FAQ page as well as the homeopathy page suggested.  However, I think I'm too much of a neophyte yet to comprehend the homeopathy - I'd better stick to the supplements and herbs and such that I understand.

>Thomas is probably infected w/ either the calici virus or herpes virus,

HERPES!  AAAAK!  Can this spread to me or the dogs?

> A chronic URI indicates a weak immune system, so you'll want to bolster that, too.  CoQ10, thymus, and ambrotose, as well as > a natural diet.

I've heard of the CoQ10 - what exactly is it and where can I get it?

Thomas is currently getting 500mg of Ester C a day along with K-Zyme  suppliment and a variation of Pitcairn's healthy powder (I leave out the yeast).  I'm thinking of adding the following -

- Echinacea tablets - what strength?
- GSE tablets - do these come in different strengths?
- Vit E - 100 mg
- B-Complex - I currently give my 50 & 60 lb dogs a balanced 50 mg capsule a day.  Would this be too much for an 11 lb cat?

and I'll start adding garlic to his next batch of food (I make up a week or two at a time and freeze it). I may incorporate the L-Lysine later - I don't want to do too much all at once.

>What color was the snot?

yellowish and pus-like

> Have you tried taking him in the bathroom when you shower?

What a great idea!  I'll try that tomorrow, though I'm not sure how relaxing  it will be for either of us with the Lab moaning and howling outside the door (I have a very tiny bathroom and I just can't fit everybody in there!)

Barbara and the Thoma-kitty

Barbara Gabriel writes:

>>Thomas is probably infected w/ either the calici virus or herpes virus,

>HERPES!  AAAAK!  Can this spread to me or the dogs?

No,  because cats have their own herpes virus (feline herpesvirus) and  other species have their own as well!  So no need to worry about transmission.  But herpes infection will remain with a cat for life, although the symptoms can be controlled most of the time.  Stress etc. will bring on an attack usually.

Naomi

Hi Barbara and all

>Thomas is currently getting 500mg of Ester C a day along with K-Zyme suppliment and a variation of Pitcairn's healthy powder > (I leave out the yeast).  I'm thinking of adding the following -
>Vit E - 100 mg
>B-Complex - I currently give my 50 & 60 lb dogs a balanced 50 mg capsule a day.  Would this be too much for an 11 lb cats?

One source for daily requirements for cats (Let's Cook for Our Cats, Dr. Edmund Dorosz) lists the following:
Vit E - 5 to 15 IU
Vit B1 - 0.2 to 1.5 mg
Vit B2 - 0.2 to 1.5 mg
Vit B3 - 2.7 to 7.5 mg
Vit B5 - 0.5 to 1.5 mg
Vit B6 - 0.2 to 1.5 mg

Because it's not water soluble, Vit E can accumulate in the body, resulting in toxicity, so I think you need to be careful not to exceed the daily requirement by too much for too long.

The Vit B-complex seems a bit high if you compare the 50mg to the daily requirement.

--Jean, Saski Brighteyes & That-Sweetie-Amber