Following are selected posts to the Holisticat (TM) Mailing List on the subject of Vitamin C. There's a lot of information here, and the posts are arranged in ascending chronological order. If there is a particular word you're looking for, it's probably best to utilize the "Find in Page" function in your edit menu!

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<30 Jul 1998 From Ann Re Vit C & bladder infections>

Hi All:

<<I'd be interested in knowing the answer to this as well. Which form of Vitamin C is best? Dr. Pitcairn says sodium ascorbate is easier on the stomach, but other sources say Ester C powder? Or calcium ascorbate? >>

I always gave my dogs calcium ascorbate because the vets said it was a lot easier on their stomachs.  Apparently sodium ascorbate can also be used if the pet is not on a restricted sodium diet.

Ann

Sandy,

Since your cat Puff has renal failure, I'd avoid the sodium ascorbate form of Vit C.  Unless Puff has a UTI and u wanna acidify the urine, calcium ascorbate/Ester C seems to be the way to go.  Ester C is buffered and I've never had a problem w/ tummy upsets (my cats have no problem w/ this form either).

Hi everyone!

All this talk of Vit. C made me go look at Sammy's bottle of Ester-C. Is it common that Ester-C supplement would include, per 5 gr (1teasooon):

Ester C    2000mg
Calcium (polyascorbate) 250mg
Bioflavonoids   500mg
Rose Hips Conc  1450mg
Acerola Powder  1000mg
Rutin    25mg
Hesperidin   25mg

The calcium part is what is troubling me.  I spend quite a bit of time figuring out *precisely* how much calcium to add to the foodies to correct the phosphorus. So then when I add this Vit C supplement, I screw the ratio all up!!!?  Is it feasible to use this calcium in the C supplement to correct the phosphorus?  Then, is Ester C freezeable?

Does anyone see any contraindications with the Ester-C I use and crf?
-----------------------

Judy,

I still have not been able to get in touch with Dr. Brown, formaly with Natrual Animals and now with Intercal, maker of Ester C, But he mentioned to me before that cat need sodium polyascorbate, and dog need calcium polyascorbate to absorb esterC. This was the reason why Natural Animals had separate formula for dog and cat. I cannot find their web site by searching it at this moment. When I find it, I will forward the address. But these minerals, BTW they do come in with other minerals, are  combined with Ester C, and as I understood , did not add extra minerals to the body.
   -- Yumi

I just got though talking to L. Phillips Brown, D. V. M of Inter-Cal, patent holder for EsterC He said in the beginning (I guess when he used to be with Natural Animals), researchers thought that Sodium Polyascobate was better absorbed by cat. But now many people use human Ester C that is with Calcium, and cats seem to be doing ok. So they are thinking that maybe cat can absorb calcium polyascobate as well.

As for the balancing calcium, calcium content in ester c products are usually less than 10%. And he thinks this is such a minute amount that will not cause unbalance problem.

-- Yumi

Sandy,

You are talking about Ester C? I don't know how to discribe this. But the minerals that they use to make ester C is different form from the dietary monerals. Maybe someone can explain better. I think I tried before, and I'm not good with it.

-- Yumi
---------------
Yumi - I'm not 100% sure but I don't think it's Ester C.  This is from the vet's office and not for human's but I would think it would say Ester C on the bottle and it doesn't.  Is calcium ascorbate part of what goes into Ester C? All the information that's given is that it's calcium ascorbate.  1 teaspoon = 4000 mg. of calcium ascorbate.

SandyC7606@ wrote:
<<I've started using calcium ascorbate as the Vit. C source for Puff.  Can this  do double duty as the calcium source also?>>

Hi all,

I did some heavy duty research on this, and can safely say the answer is 'yes'.  Sandy your label should tell you exactly how much calcium is derived from the calcium ascorbate.  I'm using Ester-C which has calcium polyascorbate, and per 2000 mg of Ester-C (vit C) we're getting 250 mg of calcium.  If by chance it isn't listed on the label, you can phone the manufacturer and they'll tell you.

Hi All,

I don't post much but I had a response to this issue. My roomate used to work at a fine chemical company (vitamins and colors)....calcium ascorbate is the non brand name of Ester -C....that is what makes the difference in price from Ester-C and Cal Asc. If you read the bottle of Ester and the bottle of Calcium Asc they usually have the same ingredients depending on the manufacturer. The Calcium Asc I have says 4,000 Cal Asc per heaping teaspoon and 750 mg calcium....so this is definitely a good source for calcium as well.

Just thought I would pass this info along....you can save some money not buying the brand name....ask your supplier or an impartial person (ask where you buy your vit C what the difference between the two are) to verify this but this info did come from a reputable vitamin supplier who had no connection with Ester C.

Tammy

Hi Sharon, list,

I guess ascorbic acid is the synthetic form of vitamin C.  Here's more on this topic from the Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care, p. 103-4:

"Synthetic and natural vitamins interact differently with minerals in the body.  For example, many nutritionally oriented physicians, such as Bruce West, M.D., warn their patients not to take ascorbic acid because it depletes copper levels.  Natural vitamin C does not."

<<I thought that ascorbic acid was the natural form of Vitamin C.  If it isn't, then what is?>>

This is the full quotation about Vit. C which I abbreviated before:  "For best results, use a natural vitamin C or calcium ascorbate with bioflavonoids and other C-complex substances from food-derived sources, not ascorbic acid." p. 285

Susan

Judi,

Calcium ascorbate is buffered so doesn't give cats (and us) the trots. That's probably why people recommend that, not to mention the great marketing and publicity  hype by Ester-C.  Ascorbic acid is harder on the tummy, I can attest to that.  But I also find it works faster.

I was under the impression that asc acid is acidifying but Vick posted to the contrary so now I'm totally confused..LOL  Maybe I should brew some for the kits and mix it in their food instead of adding a dash of the ascorbic acid crystals..

Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats

Hi all --

<<I am fixing to stock up on vitamin C for my kitties and I wanted to  get the one that is easiest for them to assimilate and the kind that  would be the most beneficial.  Should I get Ester-C powder, pure  vitamin C crystals, or liquid vitamin C with Rose hips? >>

Debbie, it kinda depends on what ya want it for.

Ester-C seems to be everyone's all-around favorite. It's mild, supposed to be easily assimilated, etc, etc.... Ascorbic acid is more bitter, and seems to be the C of choice to acidify urine (jury is still out on effectiveness....)

The holistic vet who helps me w/ my FUS kitty suggested adding ester-C to his food. I asked if plain Calcium Ascorbate was the same difference and she said yes. Ca-Ascorbate is what Ester-C is, basically, and is way cheaper. I  powdered Ca Ascorbate, 1,000 mgs per 1/4 teaspoon, and the cats never notice a thing.

Vick and the kitty company: Skippy, Sam, Max and Jezebel

At 12:13 AM 3/11/99 -0800, Christopher S. Cowell wrote:
<<Supplementing at 500 mg/ day is excessive considering that the human requirement (a species that actually needs vitamin C) is 60 mg/day.  Comparing the body size differential between a 75 kg human and a 3 kg cat gives you the idea.>>

The human body requires, at the very least, 60 mg. of Vitamin C daily to  prevent scurvy from developing - that's the minimum daily requirement to prevent illness from Vitamin C  deficiency.  It has little to do with the optimum requirement of Vitamin C and nutritional therapy.  Many studies have shown higher daily dosages of Vitamin C to contribute to a myriad of improved bodily functions - to name but a small handful of examples, I  refer you to Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism 28 (May-June 1984):  186-191;  American Review of Respiratory Disease 127 (February 1983):  143-147; Journal of the National Cancer Institute 80 (June 15, 1988):  580-585, and so on and so forth and so forth.

Vitamin C, used at its optimal level, is given at the rate of 125 mg. to  500 mg. twice daily for cats and small dogs, and 500 mg. to 1,500 mg. twice daily for large dogs.  I refer you to Cheryl Schwartz, DVM's Four Paws Five Directions, A Guide to Chinese Medicine For Cats And Dogs, and also to  Complementary and Alternative Veterinary Medicine, Principles And Practice, by Allen M Schoen, DVM, MS, and Susan G. Wynn, DVM.

Mimi C. PhD Biochemistry (Immunology)