This is a log of a Combat Lesson performed by Thorondor. Remember that what is said, is only true for the opinions of the teacher, it's not absolute, you may agree or disagree, it's allowed you know. It's not Gods own truth really, it's just what a Musher has learned. You might find it amusing to read, might benefit, if not, thanks for your time. :)
***************************************************************************
Beleriand - Sunday, April 12, 1998, 10:00 PM
Thorondor smiles.."Alrighty, here's how the lesson bit goes...I'm logging it, for any others that could not be here...I'll be preaching comba stuffs and then you get to ask questions...moderate your goofing please or I'll be on you to keep quiet, this is a one to two hour long lesson and we're here to learn some...so..:)"
Thorondor smiles..."Any questions before I start?" :)
Melchior raises his hand
Thorondor nods, "Go ahead :)"
Melchior says, "Where will the log be at?"
You say, "Presently you'll have to request it from me, I have not yet managed to make arrangements to post them on a page. :p"
Thorondor smiles and begins..
Thorondor smiles, "Welcome to the first official Combat Lesson of -98, you've all been told the rules concerning it. If you happen to disagree or don't like what I'm saying, there's no law that says I'm right and that what I say, is a must. I'm just one player speaking for his wievpoint and while this might be true for me, it might not be so for you. Hopefully, you'll perhaps come to see some new things and think some new thoughts...."
"Combat....Combat Rolepalying is perhaps the most challenging roleplaying, from the point of view, that what you do might decide if your character gets to live or not. Other scenes might be much more difficult to play then combat, but combat is after all the one life and death thing. Always here on Beleriand do we feel that the Combat System is second to the actual Roleplaying of a scene, roleplaying a combat scene out without the combat coded system, is so much more."
Thorondor smiles.."So how is it actually done?? What's important to keep in mind? What do I need to do, and what can I expect the other to do? What does he expect from me? What's really happening? Important questions...what you need to do is to know a bit about the ethics involved in combat, and, to have some skill at visualising what's going on, not only with yourself but all around you. Tonight, I'll help yah get some of that I hope..:) We'll begin by visualising and the first steps when combat is begun."
Thorondor smiles.."the very first thing that happens when you get into the room, is for you and the others in the room to get a clear idea on how it looks, what the scene is, where everyone is, what's the most important factors...Question for the class: What commands are helpful, what should one do, if there's 2 orcs and 1 elf already in the room? :)"
Reghat thinks.. -look is good? and perhaps look at the other players as well?
Scrosca says, "! questions maybe?"
Scrosca says, "like to have some1 tak about the scene , etc?"
Andurin says, "What I do is have the first person in the room lay out the scene and what other things that are out of the ordinary is in a pose. I also -look at the people"
Thorondor smiles and nods, "Excellent answer, -look generally first. Add to that a glance with -look at the players themselves, it does give you some idea of how hurt they are. As for the suggestion Scrosca gave, no, wait with the !questions a bit....it's -their- obligation to give you a idea with their poses on how things look in the room. They ought to state where they are and how...they should provide the info you need....if you need more, then, you ask with the ! or pages :)"
Thorondor smiles.."Pages are always prefered, as the ! shows the question to -everyone- in the room, save the ! for information or questions that needs to be addressed to the whole room....in a larger battle (Or any rp situation for that matter) the ! ooc-chat can get to be a bit much. :)"
Scrosca says, "But won't a page be rather subjective?"
Thorondor smiles.."Yeah, that's true, but if you choose whom to page, you oughta be able to handle his thoughts since you'll see his point of view in the scene as it develops....it keeps the spam down and lets less disturbance into the Rp. :)"
Andurin says, "Besides lots of people dislike OOC talking. I don't mind it, but I have gotten in trouble using it.""
Reghat nods..a lot depends on how much. I never mind a wave when someone arrives..or a short comment..but two to three inches of ! gets confusing..
Andurin says, "I agree with Reghat on this one."
Scrosca says, "Ok"
Thorondor smiles..."Ok...onwards...next step, 1/now you know how the scene looks, they have provided enough information about where they are and what they are doing....2/Then you pose how you entered and in what manner....3/Then it's their turn again to react to that. But...how do you know what you can do and what you can't do, what you're welcome to do? Is it just a matter of charging in where you think? There's a few ways of doing this...greatly pending on the situation. You can page players for invitations to come join in combat with them...or, my preferred option, you can use your poses cleverly and 'offer' to join in combat with anyone. Then you'll have to be very keen on reading their return pose of course."
Thorondor smiles..Example upcoming, typing.
Example:
Thorondor swoops downward through the air, calling out harshly, fiercely his cry for battle, a blood-curdling, bone-chilling tone leaping on the high end of the scale, searching below for foes to combat and friends in need, he hesitates in attacking...
(Mind you, this lets any enemies to take a pick in choosing to meet me or not.)
Skreegosh bellows loudly and the balrog with his accomanoying two kindred spirits flail the masses with their fiery weapons to get through and forward to meet with the bird, or perhaps to draw his attention...
(The ones who decline my offer, would cower, or otherwise make negative poses towards being willing to join battle with me. Now, the example was a little off since this is hardly a normal situation, but, valid still.)
Thorondor smiles.."Combat Ethics. Visualising. Two very important concepts. Now that the battle is about to be joined, what's the nex step? Well, you have to use your image of the scene to determine who get's to strike first, what lies between you on the field, who can move fastest...it's a skill one has to develop, it's hard to envision the relative speed of a human in full chain, or a orc in chain aswell. But, important aswell. Next, example&Question, so stay alert ;)"
Thorondor smiles..."Lets say you are a elf, clad in only leather, wielding a shield and a longsword...meeting a large orc, wearing chain mail and wielding a huge axe...the distance between you is 10 yards, each spots the other at the same time...you both charge headlong at eachother, the order of posing is clouded, unclear. Who get's to attack first? Or rather, who should get to attack first?"
Reghat would expect the nimble elf..to whack her first..
Orim says, "The elf because it would not be as encumbered as the orc would be,and there fore it would be faster."
Thorondor smiles..."Alright...additional question: What do -you- think is the wisest course of action for the elf?! Remember, to this questions there's no 'absolute' wrong or right answers."
Melchior says, "If I were a small little elf, I'd slash the orc and run.""
Orim says, "Runaway and get a dwarf?"
Thorondor grins.
Reghat would think..try to injure the weapon arm..the sword would not likely do that much damage through the chain..and if the orc gets the axe in action..well..
Thorondor smiles and starts a small applaude for the Orc Priestess..."That's the way I'd play it were I elf, I'd go to maim and cripple fast, and not go for a heavy first strike, I'd be aim for a very precise crippling blow and be -VERY- ready to avoid the coming axe. Tripp him up or anything, just not go head-long into the charge. A orc always wins out in a hack&slash/cut-me-up-fight...A elf's gotta be smart and use it's abilities. Orc's are powerful :P"
Reghat grins
Thorondor smiles..."Next, the actual damage/actual hit...without the CS to decide that factor, even -hitting- can be a matter of argument...not to mention how much damage one takes. What we have to do is take the relative factors into consideration....how likely is the elf to hit with the pose he just made, with these circumstances, with his likely skill, with his likely agility and with the compared skill and agility of the orc? Likewise, circumstances govern the ability to actually wound in that situation aswell."
Example:
Lanrial bounds forward, clad in his full leather suit, the rain pouring down since hours back, a thick curtain of rain giving visibility ranges to less then fifty yards. None the less, the orc ten yards away spotted him at the same time as he it. Running towards it fast with longsword and shield up, he hopes to cripple it fast.
The orc cries out with a snarl as it too spots the adversary and, rasing it's huge axe with the both hands, upward and to the side, it launches forwards in a dead run, the unshod feet of the orc loudly sloshing on the muddy ground.
Lanrial raises the sword in his right arm, holding it out to the to the left above his shield, the shield held to chest level, he suddenly tries to slow down and let the orc have the greater momentum, the boots slipping in the mud, but his forward motion slows, then he slashes from upper left to right, hoping to get a cut at the throat, maybe even at the shoulders of the orc and arms...and then with the motion of his body, being able to get the shield in place before the axe comes down.
Thorondor smiles..."now....how likely is this to hit, and wound, and, what would the wounds severity be like?"
Thorondor smiles.."This motion is also likely to get Lanrial down on his right knee btw."
Reghat hmmss.. if the neck..could do some serious damage..if the arm..with the orc moving by..and all.. not too much, I'd think.. fairly likely to hit..for the orc is not blocking against it..
Melchior says, "Chest is broad, probably moderately."
Almar says, "The Neck is an unlikely hit though, relitvily easy to avoid. I agree that the chest is the likely place to hit."
Thorondor smiles..."Here's how I would play it...The likely hood of a severe wound, is none if it doesn't happen to come across the neck. Why? Look at the way Lanrial was moving, standing...what force could he lay into it, with that kind of ground to stand on, with a intricate movment such as that...forward motion stopping...and while not falling over and not getting in the way as the orc surely wouldn't just stop on a dime. That's the problem with the CS, it doesn't take into account bad lighting, bad conitions of the ground....rain...blinding light....etc.."
You say, "Lanrial would likely hit, but not do too much damage really...:p"
Thorondor smiles.."As Alm said, and Melchior...the chest is the more likely place. The left shoulder, upper arm as he was twisted sideways."
You say, "Comments, questions? =)"
Melian thinks with those motions of Lanrial's in the mud he's as likely to end up on his rear as on his knee :)
Orim says, "Yeah,And then get creamed by the orc."
Reghat would like to think so..but the orc is gonna have a bit of a problem with the ground..getting stopped.and in to position to use the axe..
Thorondor smiles..."Yeapp, but remember, this is a surefooted Expert at longsword ;P...he'd likely slip a bit and not deliver much of a blow."
Almar says, "And the orc is at an advantage by not having boots on in the mud. So the orc will be more amnuverable."
Thorondor smiles.."Onward, from the Orcs point of view..:)"
Thorondor smiles..."Now, looking through the eyes of the orc....the silly elf just went down on one knee, off to the orcs left side and tried to slash across the throat/neck of the orc..tsssk, the only damage was some to the left shoulder and upper arm, a mere scratch! 'Have at thee, elfie!' (In less refined language no doubt. ;)....The orc is in forward motion, yet he slashed downwards at the upraised shield of the elf, double handed with the axe, left foot going out to his left side, right knee bending a bit to lower the balancepoint...What's the likeliest thing that next happens here? Does he manage to knock Lanrial over? Put a hoel through the wooden shield? Does the orc fall over? What? :)"
Thorondor erhs....'off to the orcs right side.'. Mind is elsewhere.
Thorondor grmblers about the futility of trying to teach a class while being the only wizzie online. Oh well :p
Reghat says, "He would probably strike the shield..but I think might easily slip..this is gonna be a muddy mess.. before it's done.. so probably hit the shield but be deflected..knocking the elf back some.."
Orim hmms."I'd say he would split the wooden shield with the blow but the momentum of his swing and his running would cause him to fall over."
Almar says, "Well this is what a shield is designed to do so the elf should be ok. If he plays his cards right, he could turn being on his knee to an advantage with an upward thrust with his blade."
Melian nods to Almar...Lan might be in a decent position to try to hamstring the orc...or at
least slice an ankle or calf pretty good...
Thorondor smiles..."I'd say he might split the shield, remember, this is a orc coming full power, two-hand grip and swinging down and trying to put his weight onto it, he's barefoot in mud true but he's heaving most of his weight onto the elf's arm...then again, recall that there's no absolute truth here...the orc's poses left out if he really was perfectly balanced or not...likely, he was not and would not therefore have the power behind the blow to split the shield...the middlepath and the safest in Rp is for him to chop one heck of a slice of it. It's wood after all. That's where the CS is good, it decides if something is hit or not and how bad. But's it's so black and white, no gray scale, no maybes....either do or do not. I prefer the rp'ed situation in front of the CS'ed one...Anyhow...What else happens? Say that he hits the shield, not breaking it, jsut slicing it and getting stuck with his axe. His left foot is now buried in mud due to his weight being put on it. Lanrial is unbalanced by a massive blow and his own momentum coming to a halt...Yet he's in a good position to give the orc a pretty nice blow in that extended left leg...maybe even knock him over backwards with he shield? Could he knock him over with the shield? Yes/no?"
Almar says, "As far as the whole in the shield goes, it depends if it was a flat or curved shield. The CS does not go into this either. Flat shields were good aginst curved blades like many axes, though there were flat bladed axes. And curved shields were good aginst flat blades like swords. That would determine how badly the shield would be damaged."
Lanrial smiles and sniffs, I'm being used as a example by myself and I'm not even asked aforehand. ;P (Thor's alt. :)
Almar says, "I do not think he could be knocked over very easy. His leg buried in mud would help him stay upright if nothing else, and the shock of the blow would weaken the elf's arm."
Lanrial smiles.."More comments, questions?"
Reghat thinks..the orcs weight forward and all..he would not be knocked over.. but the blow to the leg..sure a possibility..
Orim says, "I'm saying they would both go down."
Thorondor smiles and continues..
Reghat grins..course..the orc COULD fall ON that elf.. and thnks..what that would do..heh
Melian says, "Hmmm...but the forward momentum of the orc would be stopped by him hitting the shield...the shock of that impact would provide a counter to his momentum...not likely to throw him back, but would at least stop the forward momentum..."
Bremen says, "And possibly knock the elf on his arse?"
Melian says, "Possibly...though if he's down on one knee he's braced against being knocked backwards...even given the muddy conditions"
Almar says, "The elf is in a stable position on his knee, do not think he would fall back."
Orim says, "Yeah but remember,This is a big orc with a BIG axe."
Reghat was thinking ..of all those pounds of orc simply landing on the shield..squashing the elf into the mud..but in actuality..would probably not do that.. Would be balanced by the shield..and stand to attack with the axe, would be my guess..
Thorondor smiles, "It's unlikely the orc with the greater bulk, being shifted more towards the elf would be shifted backwards....no, the smartest thing would be for Lanrial to take a quick chop at that leg, roll backwards and yanking the shield back, hoping to get the orc to loosen the grip on the axe as his leg is struck and loosing it entirely with the backwards motion...if the doesn't succed, Lan's in biiig trouble though...anyhow, let's leave that example for now. Combat on a more general term. It's a dance, a complex intricate dance where we who roleplay it define what we do and are responsible for defining just how...that is what lets others interact with us doing this. Look at a martial arts movie sometime....you think about how you would portray that in battle. And you think also, about how unwilling two combattants really are to enter combat....remeber this now, clearly....combat is not just the mechanics, your characters personality must (MUST!!!) come into this....is he brave? Coward? What? Would he say something? What?.....how would he do things, what can he do...give a personal touch, this is not hack&slash, this is not a Mud, this is A MUSH....a multi-user-shared-hallucination....think about that a second.."
Thorondor smiles.."Is it the general wish of the students we linger on the example?"
Talier chuckles and always wondered what the SH on MUSH stood for.
Melian shrugs and is willing to leave it
Almar shrugs, "We can change it if you like."
Orim says, "I've done some martial arts combat Rp,I kinda see what your saying."
Reghat is fine with the teacher's choice..whatever that may be..
Orim says, "Nope,Lets leave the elf to be eaten by the orc and move on."
Almar is quiet and defencive when he fights.....just like his RL weapon style of fighting.
Thorondor smiles.."This is not just you who shall have fun, this is a shared-hallucination :) (No accusations in this, you hear.)...you responsibility upon entering a Rped scene, battle or not, is to give as much fun Rp as you feel able to do, we all try to do that and we all succed better at times then others. The scene in which we play, can't be allowed to be standardized, it grows boring, try and make each scene, a personal touch, a development of your char, even in combat. Think of our poor orcs who has to try and fight all of the goodies, they certainly have earned the goodies best effort for them to have fun playing agasint them...so make a effort to do something personal and amusing, there's so much you can do in a combat except just parrying, hacking, moving backa nd forth...as in a normal con-combat scene :))) Example upcoming :)"
Example:
Lanrial rolls backwards, slashing quickly at the orcs leg, trying to yank the axe out of the orcs hands as it's stuck on the shield still. Ending up on his back in the mud and slightly off to the side and before the orc, he tries to complete his movement and roll up.
(Now, the orc could try and argue about this, but he decides the movement is fair and that it's possible, and, more importantly, that it's fun! :)
The orc howls in pain as his left leg is cut badly right above the knee, the axe handle slipping loose from his hands, the elf able to roll away safe as the orc instead concentrates on getting up and free of the mud. Scrambling for the woods, attempting to stagger away.(Now Lanrial must weight the situation and he decides that it'd be much more fun if he didn't get up right away, since with him armed and the orc not, it'd be less fun. And he wants to see what the orc tries.)
Lanrial manages to roll away but slips around in the mud quite a bit before he uncertainly gets onto his feet. Axe still hanging from the shield and troubling him with it's weight.
The orc reaches a tree with low hanging branches and with a snapping sound, twists a length off,breaking it without little trouble at two yards length. Being about 10 yards away from the elf, he turns to face the elf again as he can't outrun it.
You say, "Sorry about the wait, RL intruded."
Almar says, "Should Lanrial not be dropping the shield? With a big axe on it he could not even move very easily with it there?"
Thorondor smiles.."That might be Lanrials next move as he's finally getting a look around."
Melian was thinking that...he's gonna have to either ditch the shield or take a mometn to pull the axe off of it...
Orim says, "Yeah,It would be smart to ditch the shield."
Almar says, "I figured it would be the most pressing think hanging there, but the orc could press the attack before the shield is dropped giving him an advantage at least RP wise."
Thorondor smiles...."Think about what is around you in a combat scene...there's much you can use, trees to climb, swing in, stones to stumble upon, blood to slip on, bodies to cause yah to stumble or your enemy....strategic placing, getting something in between yourself and your foe..it's all decided by your skill to Visualise your surroundings, Project your actions and intent, your Time sense and estimation of your alloted time to act before you have to let your opponent act and react...Your Reality sense in the end, decides if something is possible or not. We -ARE- heros...above the cut, all of us in a way...we're not NPC's, we're the 'special' ones of the world...but we're not Spiderman or something ;P"
Melian listens to Queen playing in the background ;)
Bremen would rather hear Floyd
Thorondor smiles...and takes a moment to think, getting to be about closing time. Any questions about anything I've said so far before we head into the end-run...?"
Reghat shakes her head.. all fine with me..
Orim says, "Not from me"
Almar says, "Go for it"
Thorondor smiles..."Think of a combat scene as a story to tell with your other players as partners, not enemies really. They're here to have fun aswell. Try to see things from their viewpoints too, and you'll find the favour returned. In the end, it'll be all the more fun as we all get to do things we want. Thanks all for taking time and listening, I had fun, I learned a lot as I focused my thoughts and tried to tell you a bit. There's a million more things to say, a million things in Combat Ethics, what to do and what not to do, how to do things, but, this is a start anyhow. You'll find out on your own, remember. We all are allowed mistakes. :)"
Reghat applauds... EXCELLENT class.. maybe..another in this subject, another day??
Thorondor smiles..."If anyone wants to stick around and watch a Rp'ed fight, that can be arranged. Otherwise, class dissmissed."
Bremen grinns, He's a liar...I gety the mistakes for ALL of you
Almar says, "Thanks Thoro :)"
Thorondor smiles..."There's a chance there'll be more classes in this subject yeah.."
Thorondor smiles...and bows, my pleasure.
Melian says, "Thanks Thor :) And I would love to watch a fight :)"
Reghat will log it..but has to be AFK a bit.. :(
Talier says, "Who is fighting?"
Almar says, "I can fight if you need someone."
Lanrial suddenly screams out, 'kiiiiiii-aaaa!!!", then dives head-long into the weapons-pile, emerging clad in enough iron to cover him completely, gun-muzzles peeking out in a hedgehog pattern on his back, holding a machete-M60-Rocket-Turbo-Quad-Laser-gun in his right and a toothpick in his left.
Wearing a black headband. With the text, TRAINER.
Thorondor smiles...It'll be Lanrial against anyone ;)
Lanrial smiles...A rp'ed fight, don't matter with whom or about what. I don't think we'll have the Eagle fighting, it's a bit unreal.
Almar says, "Oops...need to AFK....sorry"
Orim runs over to the wepaons pile and dives in.He later emerges in Squat exo-armour and a giant multi-melta and laughs insanely.
Lanrial smiles.."So, Bremen...Alm? Orim? Who will fight me? :)"
***************************************************************************
NOTE: After this the class was fairly soon over and the ensuing fight wasn't really begun before we had to end due to a problem that arose and needed my attention. Also, throughout the class we were plagued by problems with connectivety and players had to leave, hence the somewhat strange shift in questions and players all of a sudden at times. Also, throughout this mail the examples have been male, this is not meant as a slight to anyone.
Back to Dor-lómin Roleplaying Log Page