return to
dhamma writings

• Human Realm
• Questions about Sects & Sutras
• Tip, Trick, and Trap in Reading Sutta and Dhamma
• How I Came to the Dharma...
• Search for Nirvana (1 and 2)
    

Somkiat Foongkiat wrote in Re: Devas:

> 3. The Non-Returner (Anagami) will not come back to be human again and he will stay in The upper FORM Realm until he reaches Nibbana.

I've been told that no matter how far you would have reached (even to the highest Realm of the upper formless) you have to come back to the human Realm again in order to reach Nirvana (or Nibbana). <i>Human Realm</i> is the only Realm that one can cultivate and practise in order to reach Nirvana. Therefore, we are very lucky to be born in this human Realm cause it's the only Realm that has the direct path through Nirvana. Please kindly clarify this for me cause I am quite confused!

Ann

Anagami is a special kind of person called Lokuttara Person whose Karma will have little or no effect. Lokuttara has 4 kinds of persons (Sotapatti, Sakadagami, Anagami, and Arahanta) who will not reborn in lower realm than Human Realm. Lokuttara person has Lokuttara Dhamma that nothing can force this person down while other persons still has Lokiya Dhamma that is unstable and may go to lower realms again or another word Karma is still in effect.

: I've been told that no matter how far you would have reached (even to the highest Realm of the upper formless) you have to come back to the human Realm again in order to reach Nirvana (or Nibbana). <i>Human Realm</i> is the only Realm that one can cultivate and practise in order to reach Nirvana.

I also heard the same as you did but I did not read it or find any wording evidences. Then I have to find my own reason to explain.

1. The person with Lokiya Dhamma who may reborn lower than Human Realm is subjected to your statement. But the statement did not point to ONLY Human Realm so Upper Realm is opened. Then the places that are possible for cultivating are from Human Realm and upper. Lower Realms have only sufferings that are not supportable for cultivating Dhamma.

2. Is it possible that the statement is wrong in the part referred to Nibbana? This statement will be correct when the word “Nibbana” is changed to “the Buddha”. Human Realm is only one place for cultivating to be the Buddha. The Buddha is in Nibbana. The statement may be implied like this.

3. It is many circumstances of the statement. When, Where, and Why was this statement happened? This statement might be for general persons who never know about other realms or Dhamma. Or this statement is to tell every human while they are in the Human Realm to take their opportunity to cultivate as fast as possible.

4. Human Realm is only place to make and collect Karma easiest. Because there are many good people we can be and many bad people we can help here. Lower and Upper Realms are places for getting the result of the Karma. Fewer chance to make and collect Karma from other places.

All sentences are belonging to wordings and writing. Writing belongs to writer and his memory and understanding. Sutta that we learn usually is not the full version. We need a whole library to keep all suttas. It is good that you did not believe entirely from wording. I always do the same. Please try to practice to confirm your understanding and then the suttas.

Thank you so much for your kind explanation. Eventhough I'm still not clear about this subject, you did remind me something which is very crucial. We will never find the truth from reading, listening or discussing BUT from practicing and experiencing it yourself. My teacher used to tell me that those who are very skeptical and try to search for the truth from merely reading and discussing will never find the ultimate truth that they are seaching for, if they don't give enough time for practicing esp. the mindfulness thing. I have to admit that I don't really practice much so I don't really gain anything but simply knowledge from reading and discussing. However, I tell myself that I will give more and more time for practicing in the hopes that one day I won't have to ask questions anymore.

ann

Although I agree with Somkiat that practice to gain your own wisdom, and mindfulness and self examination, conviction and discernment of how to apply the Dhamma to your own total experience is more important than then theoretical considerations (in my own experience I've often been able to connect theoretical questions as veiled resistance to to getting down to dealing with klesas (mental agitations or defilements) , I thought I'd clarify your question about Nibbana in the human or formless realms.

It's not that the human realm is the only realm from which one can attain Nibbana, the Buddha just said it was the easiest. It's difficult for one in the formless realms because of the blissfullness and different nature of time (time is experienced as much longer, a lifespan there would be perceived as eons by us but would not "actually" correspond to that much earth time). However, a non-returner is one born in the formless realms because of their nearness to attaining Nibbana and its assumed that they will probably be able to retain their sense of purpose and attain Nibbana from there.

Matthew

What is the different in terms of the teaching between Hinnayana and Mahayana?

What are Lotus Sutra and Diamond Sutra called in Bali?

ann 

Thanks for your question. You did raise the right question at the right time.

There are a lot of differences and similarities. Each is best and suitable for each life styles and need in each country. Although there are differences in step of the practice but both teach us to end the cause of sufferings. I suggest you to learn both. We may answer a difficult question easier when we have more flexibility. What they teach is not important as what we can learn selectively and wisely.

You may see the postings in this forum about the contradictions between Hinayana and Mahayana. Most of the contradictions came from wordings and understanding of the persons who have their own right to think in their own way in accordance with their own level of experience. I have nothing against those postings. Please notice the result after 2541 years, both of the high ranking and respectable monks of Hinayana and Mahayana are still supporting each other. Perhaps there is no contradiction for the persons who know the answer.

Please share your tip, trick, and trap in reading sutta and Dhamma book not for me but for everyone.

Hope your sharing helps readers learn Buddhism faster and easier.

I don't know if I have any particularly useful or different things to say about reading suttas and Dhamma. I will share my approach, to stimulate discussion, maybe, and maybe be of help. I think that, as far as Theravadin study goes, sutta study is important. This is because the suttas contain the oldest direct teaching of the Buddha. I guess I could put it like this:

Tricks: read a couple of different English translations, and remember that no translation is definitive. Check glossaries, etc. to round out your understanding of Pali words.

Tips: Be attentive. Let go if you don't understand, and return later. Always remember that the Suttas round out and compliment each other, and try to avoid taking any statement to necessarily be the whole picture. He phrased his teaching in many different ways depending on audience, question, etc. Try to get into the scene and understand what the characters were thinking so you can relate to it better. Read slowly and carefully. And the two most important : Take the Buddha seriously. No words are wasted or irrelevant, and: Get advice and help with interpretations from someone wiser than me !

(good commentators : Thanissaro Bhikku, Ayya Khema.)

Trap: In my experience the greatest trap in reading the suttas is preconceived notions before reading, not an unbiased, investigative mind, a resistance to changing your interpretation on later readings, and forgetting that the English words used to translate Pali terms often have connotations the Pali doesn't. Therefore, the idea behind the word might be different then you at first think. Don't over-trust translators. One more trap I've found myself in: being resistant to an idea not because of good cause but because it goes against an attachment or desire of mine. I think the Dhamma, by its very nature, both brings peace and challenges us at our most fundamental levels. And remember not to take the Buddha's statements as "Do this now!" Remember it's a gradual path, and supposed to be tread with both renunciation and joy.

A good site that offers better guidance in the matter of reading the Pali Canon then I ever could is Access To Insight, which has many good articles and books representing different points of view within the Theravada. A really good book they have there is an anthology of translations and commentaries organised around the 37 Wings To Awakening taught by the Buddha called The Wings To Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikku. Wow. I've just been a fountain of words lately. Hope that helps. I'll list the url for Access To Insight in a another post.

Matthew

Tips:

1. The Buddha’s Teachings are steps of practice. The most important concept was often placed first such as the Right View of the Noble Eightfold Path or the contemplation of the body in Satipatthana.

2. There was always a hint in the layout of his teachings. The Four Noble Truths came with the Middle Way so the main point was laid between Dukkha-Samudaya and Nirodha-Magga.

3. The Buddha always used the same structure that could be comparable among suttas. He divided his main concept from 1 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 8, 8 to 16 components. All came from one.

4. The Buddha’s Teachings should be very easy so we should not worry too much as long as we have sila, samadhi, and panna.

5. While reading, try to analyze how the article relate with the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, and Sila-Samadhi-Panna.

6. Know the writer’s background and experience. Learn his source of information.

Tricks:

1. Read the same subject from different writers to find the agreements or disagreements.

2. Read the latest book of the same writers and compare to his former writing, you may see how he changed or improved his viewpoint.

3. Read the same subject that categorized for beginner, intermediate, and advance practitioner. You will learn how to progress step by step, which takes time more than reading and opening pages.

4. Read the contents and analyze how the materials related with each other. Read the name of the sutta and guess before read inside.

5. Re-read the same books again after you gain more experience.

6. Find meditation book that explains how to apply the Buddha’s Teachings into practice.

Traps:

1. Do not read too much then believe without practices.

2. Dhamma has logic and limits its meaning so do not over amplify its implications.

I was born in a Buddhist family and mainly Buddhist country. My neighbors are Muslim and Christian. A Christian church, a next-door-neighbor, rents my old house so I am surrounding with religions. Everyone is very good friend of me.

Although I am a Buddhist, I was just named as a Buddhist more than half of my life. I accepted the five precepts and went to the temple only for ceremony. I would give food offering to monks in some of my birthdays but not every year. I never read Dhamma book or suttas because I believed I learned it enough in school. I felt that being Buddhist is just living with the middle way concept.

I have been a real Buddhist when I started reading about meditation and healing. I was very interested in pranic healing, chakra, universal energy, and astrology. I read a lot of books and found that meditation was the core. Then I read all Buddhist meditation books, visited the meditation monks, and practiced meditation. However only meditation would not progress without the understanding in Dhamma. I read more on the Buddha’s teachings and Dhamma then I found the precious knowledge that I had never recognized before. Pranic healing, chakra, universal energy, and astrology are only a little outcome from practicing Dhamma and I have no interest on them any more. Dhamma comes first but I have to make Dhamma myself.

Do not be named as just a Buddhist.

Just for your information about Nibbana. There are two kinds of Nibbana:

1. Nibbana with remainder of existence. (Saupadisesa-nibbana) is the result of the extinction of impurities only. This is Nibbana while alive and there are still five aggregates.

2. Nibbana without remainder of existence. (Anupadisesa-nibbana) is the result of the extinction of five-khanda-process. This is Nibbana after death. Five aggregates will turn to be Dhamma-khanda.

Your article seems to refer to Saupadisesa-nibbana. However do not imply that Anupadisesa-nibbana is for arahant who passes away only. There is a high level of meditation practice to attain Anupadisesa-nibbana then Saupadisesa-nibbana momentarily back and forth while alive. Saupadisesa-nibbana is the first step before Anupadisesa-nibbana.

Last updated
29-10-2542