imbutapawn: you alright?
edmo9903: hi
edmo9903: want to make a run to quartet?
imbutapawn: yeah, when you thinking?
edmo9903: either around now or around 4?
imbutapawn: either way
imbutapawn: you got class at three?
edmo9903: nope, all done
edmo9903: but I do need to pick up my girls' bid cards at 4 and meet them at 5
imbutapawn: alright
imbutapawn: i just got back
imbutapawn: can i hang out for 15-20?
edmo9903: no! i command that we leave in 7 minutes!
imbutapawn: alright
imbutapawn: you inconsiderate punk
imbutapawn: i have a new favorite song
imbutapawn: i will tell you about it later
imbutapawn: margaret didn't get in anywhere
imbutapawn: at all
imbutapawn: sororities are so fucking stupid
edmo9903: what??
edmo9903: she didn't get a bid anywhere???
imbutapawn: no
imbutapawn: so fucking stupid
edmo9903: where did she pref?
imbutapawn: tridelt DG and piphi
edmo9903: did you get my email yesterday?
imbutapawn: yeah
imbutapawn: hey - proposition
imbutapawn: would you be willing to have some wine mailed to you and to sign for it?
imbutapawn: when you turn 21
imbutapawn: can you do that in the house?
edmo9903: do you want to join a wine of the month club>
imbutapawn: no
imbutapawn: tax for wine in indiana is horrible
imbutapawn: and craig wants to buy some expensive stuff
imbutapawn: and have it shipped here, and then transported to him
edmo9903: ahh... well, if yu share with me from time to time...
imbutapawn: i think he would give us a bottle or two
edmo9903: craig?
imbutapawn: yeah
edmo9903: wow, is he that cheap?
imbutapawn: my friend from indiana - backpacking guy
imbutapawn: uhhh... in some ways
edmo9903: kust kidding... um, sure... sign me up
imbutapawn: ok
imbutapawn: i will let him know
imbutapawn: i can take over once we get the house
imbutapawn: ok
imbutapawn: actually, he can't ship it to indiana at all
imbutapawn: it's not a tax issue
imbutapawn: it's the law
edmo9903: oh yeah, I knew that... shel wanted to get that wine of the month club for neil for his birthday...
edmo9903: buit it was a no go
imbutapawn: right
imbutapawn: so it's ok with you?
edmo9903: sure, why not?
imbutapawn: ok
imbutapawn: apparently he is buying by the case
imbutapawn: so we might have to store them in my room
imbutapawn: haha
imbutapawn: i can't fucking believe that margaret thing
imbutapawn: she is so social, so outgoing
edmo9903: how much wine does this guy need?
imbutapawn: i don't know
imbutapawn: a lot i guess
imbutapawn: i am going to give him your name and address
imbutapawn: what is it at the house?
edmo9903: 711 University place
edmo9903: jist make sure he waits until the 27th
imbutapawn: right
imbutapawn: ok
imbutapawn: we are all set
imbutapawn: wow
imbutapawn: fuck sororities
imbutapawn: fuck em
imbutapawn: i just really can't believe that
imbutapawn: not even (no offense) pi phi
imbutapawn: i wonder if something weird happened
imbutapawn: i wonder if someone knew about her problem
imbutapawn: or saw the scars
imbutapawn: or some stupid thing like that
imbutapawn: wow
imbutapawn: i don't even care about sororities
imbutapawn: but this is over the top
imbutapawn: ha
imbutapawn: whatever
edmo9903: hmm... I don't know
edmo9903: I think pi phi would have been a good match up for her
edmo9903: did she put them 3rd?
imbutapawn: yeah
imbutapawn: i don't know
imbutapawn: she could be the consummate sorority girl
imbutapawn: yeah, she put them third
imbutapawn: do they get to see that?
edmo9903: no, but pi phi is competitive enough that it probably filled before the computer got to the 3rd choices
edmo9903: the other two are just so popular... their pledge classes probably filled with first choices that matched up with their first bid list...
imbutapawn: either way
imbutapawn: i am looking on the internet for plastic explosives
imbutapawn: it's not really in defense of margaret
imbutapawn: that would be a little short-sighted
imbutapawn: it's just the principal of the thing
edmo9903: well, you got my email... so you know what I think of the whole system
imbutapawn: yeah, but you are also part of it
edmo9903: I can't say enough about belonging to a sorority... I won't ever believe anything different.... but rush... that's where the problem is
imbutapawn: right
imbutapawn: but
imbutapawn: "...better to let 10 guilty men go free than to let one innocent man suffer"
imbutapawn: i can't see myself belonging to a system that does what i am watching it do to even one person
imbutapawn: because i would know that my belonging was a simple matter of luch - not too genuine as far as i'm concerned
imbutapawn: when i asked the DKE boys why they wanted me to be in their fraternity and they couldn't give me an answer, that's when i knew it wasn't for me
edmo9903: it's a personal thing... and like all things, there's give and take
imbutapawn: i suppose
imbutapawn: you have to take a stand sometimes, though
imbutapawn: "if you don't stand for anything, you will fall for anything"
imbutapawn: what do you think about calling the girls who didn't get a bid?
edmo9903: you also have to pick your battles... I beleive in my house and the way things are done here... rush is separate in my mind. it's a bad system, and good people fall through the cracks... I know that more than anyone, now that i've worked with the girls so closely...
imbutapawn: do you have to do that?
edmo9903: but you can't take a system that means so many different thigns to so many different people... were talking thousands in this case... and make a judgement to generalize everyone
imbutapawn: it's not judging
imbutapawn: and in the sense of what you are talking about, yes you can
edmo9903: all of my girls got bids... but if they hadn't I would have called them, it would have been worse if they had shown up to get a card and left with nothing
edmo9903: that doesn't sound shallow to you?
edmo9903: wow, that surprises me
imbutapawn: a lot of people in the 1700 and 1800's might have said, "boy, america is a really great place, except for that whole slavery thing?
imbutapawn: but unless they did something about it, or left the country, i have no respect for them
edmo9903: that doesn't fly... slavery and sororities, no matter how you may argue, are not the same
imbutapawn: i would not be a part of a group - regardless of any of its other positive aspects - if it did even one things that i could not morally tolerate
imbutapawn: i would do something about it or leave
edmo9903: moral? wow, that hurts
imbutapawn: because to do anything else would be to perpetuate, or silently consent to, the system
imbutapawn: which involves a compromising of my ideals
imbutapawn: which i am not willing to do
edmo9903: well, i guess you shouldn't join a sorority
imbutapawn: it's not right, in my opinion, to judge people on standards - real or perceived - that has absolutely nothing to do with who they are; or to judge some people fairly, but not others - it's all or none for me
imbutapawn: i'm not attacking you
imbutapawn: but you're right
imbutapawn: i would not join a sorority
edmo9903: if margaret had a bid right now would you be saying these things?
imbutapawn: i wouldn't be thinking about them right now, but this is what i think regardless of who has bids in their hands and who doesn't
imbutapawn: it's not like this is the first time you've heard me say this
edmo9903: you've never made me feel this way
imbutapawn: i'm talking to you, not about you
imbutapawn: well, not directly
edmo9903: i know, but you know it affects me
imbutapawn: and to be honest, i'm not responsible for how you feel, i'm responsible for what i say
imbutapawn: and i stand by what i've said thus far, and would say it to anyone who wanted to listen
edmo9903: and i'm not sayign you shouldn't say what you feel
edmo9903: I know, but at the same time, you know that my house is important to me.. mostly because we all feel the same way about rush... but it's rush! our lives do not revolve around this, and even though it is not a perfect system, and amazing people fall through the cracks, the incredible things that we get to feel the rest of the year outweigh rush
edmo9903: you don't know what it's like to be an insecure girl and find a home
edmo9903: you don't know what it's like to feel like you have a support group of 100+ girls
imbutapawn: no, but you don't know what it's like to be an insecure girl and NOT find a home,
imbutapawn: and have to guess at why
edmo9903: you don't know what it's like to wake up in a place where everyone knows you
imbutapawn: natalie, this is all trivial
imbutapawn: that is absolutely no jusitfication
imbutapawn: great, i'm happy. hitler did a lot of great things for a lot of people. he also burned 6 million jews.
edmo9903: I know that rush doesn't work out for everyone... i know this
imbutapawn: it's not about counting the number of good things, and counting the number of bad things, and seeing which list has more. it's about having principles, and then either living up to them or not.
edmo9903: but just becuase rush isn't perfect, doesn't mean that the sororities in general are evil
imbutapawn: no, i'm not saying it does
edmo9903: so what does that say about me? because i intend to stay in my house
imbutapawn: i'm just saying it's imperfections are of such weight and merit that i would be unwilling to join the system, regardless of how wonderful its other benefits are
imbutapawn: it says that you and i either don't have the same principles, or that we don't see eye to eye on how they are being treated here, or that you are weak in acting on yours
imbutapawn: one of the three
edmo9903: i just wish you could feel certain things before you made judgements like this
edmo9903: i would have to go with B
imbutapawn: no
imbutapawn: it's not about feeling things
imbutapawn: you have to be objective
imbutapawn: i know that the things you feel are great, but i think you might be letting that blind you to the pain that other people are feeling, and ultimately to the reasons why they are feeling it
imbutapawn: that's what's important
imbutapawn: it's not about you
edmo9903: we've had differnent experiences...
edmo9903: you make it about me!
imbutapawn: it doesn't matter!!!
imbutapawn: don't you see?
imbutapawn: as long as that one experience of someone hurting for reasons related to rush exists, and you know about it, it is considered part of your experiential background
imbutapawn: the information from which you draw your conclusions
imbutapawn: this is not about margaret
imbutapawn: and it's not about you
imbutapawn: it's about the system
imbutapawn: and to really see where i am coming from, you need to be able to think about it objectively
imbutapawn: not as something you are a part of
imbutapawn: that is clouding your judegment, i think
edmo9903: I'm trying to
edmo9903: i just wish you would give some credit to the good that sororities can be
imbutapawn: i give them that credit
imbutapawn: there is much more good in the system than bad
edmo9903: they are not perfect, but to take 600 people and find pledge classes of 40 girls each is a risk
imbutapawn: but the bad is more than i am willing to put up with
edmo9903: i just don't see it as being so black and white
imbutapawn: you can see it however you want to see it
imbutapawn: it isn't black, white, or gray
imbutapawn: you have to draw your own lines
edmo9903: i just hope you still respect me for the decisions I make... you should know me at least that well
imbutapawn: i respect you
imbutapawn: i am not sure how i feel about the decision
edmo9903: the decision to stay in sorority? i don't know if I would rush again. I was a different person when I decided to do it the first time. but I feel like I am still standing up for my beilefs as they stand right now
edmo9903: I'm starting with my house... they treat the girls that come through here as individuals. I respect the way we do things in relation to the girls
imbutapawn: i don't think you should necessarily leave your sorority
edmo9903: but there are things that could be better
imbutapawn: but maybe some sort of hunge strike - refusing to participate in rush or something
imbutapawn: that would be a good start
imbutapawn: (laugh)
edmo9903: I'm planning on takling to allison about some things
edmo9903: i thought being a conselor in the whole thing would be a good start.. I was honest with my girls. they knew that it was a risk to put yourself out there like that, to intentionally have others judge you for days...
edmo9903: sometimes I feel like you are so sure that you are thinking about things objectively that you miss some pieces to the puzzle...
imbutapawn: i guess it does make a difference that the girls know they might not get in
imbutapawn: anywhere
imbutapawn: maybe that needs to be stressed more
edmo9903: my girls knew the truth
edmo9903: the made the conscious decision to do this
imbutapawn: or maybe we should assign girls to houses with a machine that is purported to be a match-maker, but that is actually only a random number generator
edmo9903: honestly, I think a combination of the guys system... make everyone visit all the houses fro a certain number of hours for months... not just one week
edmo9903: fro? hmm...
edmo9903: the girls shouldn't be victims here...
imbutapawn: right, obviously
edmo9903: I will try to talk to emily about all this...
edmo9903: i would feel better about it, I think
imbutapawn: well, do it for your conscience, or do it for the girls, but i think something should be done
edmo9903: i do... i'm torn about a few things though...
edmo9903: want to make our run out?
imbutapawn: yeah
imbutapawn: in just a minute
imbutapawn: i am going to get picked up from there by eric
imbutapawn: we are having our tv fixed
edmo9903: huh?
imbutapawn: which word didn't you understand
edmo9903: let's go later then... it doens't matter though
imbutapawn: ok
imbutapawn: now is ok...
imbutapawn: but we can go later
imbutapawn: we should be back soon
edmo9903: ok, i'll call you around 4 or so?
imbutapawn: ok
imbutapawn: thanks
edmo9903: thanks for what?