Interview: iviews.com speaks with Scott Ritter on the Iraqi Sanctions

               Copyright: http://www.iviews.com
               Published Wednesday February 02, 2000

               By Ali Asadullah

               Scott Ritter is indeed a controversial figure. A former
               U.S. Marine Captain who fought in the Gulf War, Ritter
               led the UNSCOM disarmament team in Iraq for seven
               years. During that time Iraq accused him of spying for
               the United States and Israel. He resigned his post in
               August of 1998, citing the U.N. Security Council’s
               inability to enforce its own resolutions on Iraq.

               Since that time, Ritter has spoken out against the
               economic sanctions that have crippled Iraq and
               ravaged its population. With more conservative political
               leanings, Ritter is sometimes at odds with more liberal
               elements of the anti-sanctions movement. He is no
               less opposed to the sanctions program; but has a
               uniquely conservative view on the methodology to
               resolve the crisis in Iraq.

               Ritter spoke with iviews.com on Jan 31 with reference
               to his willingness to dialogue with presidential
               candidates on the issue of the sanctions. What follows
               are excerpts from that conversation.

 

               The problem of the left

               Ritter: One of the problems is that the issue of
               economic sanctions in Iraq has been embraced by, I
               would say, the fringe left of the United States. It’s not a
               mainstream issue, unfortunately. It should be. When I
               speak out, almost everywhere I speak to mainstream
               audiences, when you confront them with the fact that 5
               to 6 thousand kids are dying every month as a result of
               economic sanctions they’re shocked. This is a reality
               that the mainstream American public chooses to
               ignore.

               Because the issue has been embraced by the left --
               including radical elements of the left -- it’s lost a little
               bit of its political credibility. For the most part, when
               you talk about economic sanctions, and you’re
               confronted by Voices in the Wilderness – I forget some
               of the other ones I’ve talked with – these are
               well-meaning people but it’s very easy for mainstream
               politicians to brush them off because these people
               have no constituency, and for the most part because of
               their radical beliefs. All of what they say is wrong,
               factually; or heavily slanted with a political ideology
               that most of Americans don’t find attractive.

               The problem of politics

               Ritter: We’re dealing with a situation now where
               politicians do not want to take on this issue -- because
               the facts are irreconcilable. What America’s doing with
               Iraq today is criminal. It’s a violation of international
               law; it’s about as anti-American as I can think of
               anything that we’re doing. And yet Saddam Hussein
               has been demonized by the American media, by
               American politicians. And it’s political suicide right now
               for a politician to do anything other than stand on a
               podium and give an anti-Saddam speech. And it’s very
               difficult … they don’t want to be wasting their limited
               airtime with the American public trying to discuss the
               intricacies of Iraq, the Middle East policy, etc. They
               want to simplify the situation; and the best way to
               simplify it right now for a politician is to go with the old
               adage that Saddam Hussein is evil and that we will
               continue to oppose him. And right now one of the main
               vehicles for opposing Saddam is the continuation of
               containment through economic sanctions.

               And that’s why no one will listen. I can’t get the New
               York Times to publish an op-ed piece that talks about
               this in the context of the presidential elections
               because they say it doesn’t matter if what you’re
               saying is right. What matters is that no one else
               believes it should be a presidential issue.

               …If any journalist or anybody in any of the campaigns
               desires to talk about Iraq and would like to understand
               my perspective and some of the reasons why I believe
               the way I do, I’d be more than happy to talk to them.

               The problem is, when Iraq’s sexy I get a lot of media
               attention; when Iraq’s not sexy, I get zero media
               attention. That’s the reality of the way the media does
               business. It has nothing to do with the substance of
               the issue or even the fact that almost everything I’ve
               said about Iraq, every prediction I’ve made, has come
               true. Every fact I’ve said has held under close scrutiny.
               The media doesn’t care about that. You’ve got your
               window where the public is paying attention and they’ll
               put me up with someone who has zero credibility on
               the subject and give them equal airtime. So I’ve been
               challenging the American public and the media and the
               political mainstream for over a year now to think
               responsibly about Iraq. It’s just not happening. It’s very
               frustrating. And if there’s anything I can do to continue
               the education process, I’d be more than happy to do it.

               Both liberals and conservatives have it wrong

               Ritter: There’s very few people who are in opposition to
               the sanctions who have served in the military. So when
               you get, for instance – I think it’s Voices of
               Reconciliation is one of these groups – I had a long
               discussion with them. I gave them a large interview. I
               told them right up front [that] when they address the
               issue of economic sanctions and then they liken what
               the United States is doing to Auschwitz, I said,
               "You’ve lost everybody at that point." It’s about as
               grossly an irresponsible statement as I can imagine.
               This isn’t Auschwitz, this isn’t genocide, this isn’t the
               Nazi regime attempting to eradicate the Jewish race off
               the face of the earth. This is horrible policy that’s
               resulting in hundreds of thousands of dead kids. But
               there’s a big difference between the two. And that’s
               why I talk about levels of irresponsibility.

               I also believe that these people haven’t a clue about
               the reality of the regime of Saddam Hussein. I hold that
               for conservative too. I think that the people who are
               advising George W. Bush … are giving as misguided
               policy on Iraq to presidential candidate George W.
               Bush as one can imagine. Yet they’re to the far right.

               So both sides of the spectrum have it totally wrong
               when it comes to Iraq. One side tends to … view the
               regime as some sort of nice little genteel Middle East
               nation. The other one demonizes it to the point of …
               making it the Middle East equivalent of Adolph Hitler.
               No one looks at the reality of Iraq within the context of
               the modern Middle East, and what the alternatives to
               Saddam Hussein would be, why this isn’t an issue of
               Saddam Hussein but this is an issue of Iraq, etc. And
               until people introduce all those levels of complexity to
               their argument, their basic stance is full of holes and
               will be shot down.

               On Ramsey Clark

               Ritter: I wouldn’t be in touch with Ramsey Clark … I
               fought in the Gulf War. I was in that war, I know what
               went on during that war, and we’re not war criminals.
               I’m not a war criminal. And none of the people I served
               with are war criminals. And yet he’s accusing the
               United States of committing war crimes because A-10
               aircraft fired depleted uranium shells at Iraqi tanks.
               That’s horribly irresponsible. I don’t want to be
               associated with this man. That’s the kind of thing I’m
               talking about. He may have a point when it comes to
               economic sanctions but he hasn’t a clue of what’s
               involved in modern warfare and why we targeted certain
               targets. He doesn’t know the intelligence information
               that went in behind it. And so when he offers the kind
               of gross condemnation that he sets forth, it’s
               unwarranted.

               On continued trips back to Iraq

               Ritter: There’s two issues here. One, you’re dealing
               with the concept of civil disobedience; and it has a
               grand and glorious history in the United States.
               Everything that we did with the civil rights movement
               was a civil disobedience. And when you have a gross
               injustice, civil disobedience has a great role. The
               problem is, it was easy to convince people when you
               saw a picture of a white sheriff beating up a black girl
               that this was wrong. But because we’ve demonized
               Saddam Husse,in to such an extent and we’ve
               personalized this conflict around Saddam Hussein, it’s
               very hard to convince the mainstream American that
               this act of civil disobedience – and again, I have
               nothing but the highest respect for the people in
               Voices in the Wilderness who go to Iraq. I think they’re
               brave. I think they’re courageous. I think they’re
               courageous both in terms of physical courage and also
               moral courage. Now does that mean I’m going to get
               on the next bus and go to Iraq? No. Not because I’m a
               coward. But when I’ve done my assessment of the
               situation. And I’ve told them this -- they have been
               painted as reactionaries. And therefore no one will
               respect the act that they took. Same thing with
               Ramsey Clark. No one’s going to sit there and say this
               was a brilliant act of civil disobedience done by a brave
               and courageous person. He’s grossly irresponsible in
               some of the things he says. And Voices in the
               Wilderness have some things that have painted them
               in that corner.

               What needs to be done

               Ritter: What will be required is for a mainstream
               American group to not only go to Iraq but to directly
               challenge – this has to become a political issue. That’s
               something I’ve said all along. The reason why I say this
               … [is because] one of the things that has hamstrung
               our ability to formulate effective policy in Iraq isn’t just
               ignorance at the highest levels of the American
               government or the American political body. The fact
               that we’ve passed something called the Iraq Liberation
               Act – this is public law which mandates that the United
               States provide $100 million worth of funds for the sole
               purpose of overthrowing the regime of Saddam
               Hussein.

               People have to understand that we have passed a law
               that supercedes, in terms of the American system,
               Security Council resolutions. So it’s hypocritical for
               anybody in this administration to be talking about arms
               control, to be talking about anything that relates to a
               Security Council resolution or a Security Council
               mandate because United States law dictates the
               overthrow of Saddam Hussein. And this has to sink
               into people’s heads. Now the only way we’re going to
               solve the issue of Iraq is to overturn that law and that
               has to be done through political action. We have to get
               enough congressmen and senators to understand that
               the law is not only illegal in terms of international law,
               but it’s wrong and it’s not going to work. It only hurts
               the United States, it only hurts the people of the
               Middle East, it only hurts Iraq. If we can get that law
               overturned, I think you’ll see almost an immediate
               change in policy.

               Conyers/Bonior Letter

               Ritter: Again, the problem is the sponsors. If I call up
               somebody on Senator Helms’ staff and mention that
               letter, they’re not going to even bother reading the body
               of the letter. They’re just going to immediately say,
               "Those left-wing radicals."

               I like the letter … It’s a good letter. It’s something I
               wish the media would pick up on. And I wish that it
               would get grass roots support from the American
               public to put pressure on the representatives who didn’t
               sign that letter because we need to de-link the two
               (economic and military sanctions). But it’s bigger than
               de-linking. You can’t treat things in a vacuum. The
               de-linking of economic and military sanctions is
               meaningless as long as the United States continues to
               pursue a policy of overthrowing the regime of Saddam
               Hussein. You have to deal with this issue on a
               comprehensive level. And the letter doesn’t do that.
               That’s why I think it’s just a drop in the pond and it will
               ultimately have zero impact because it tries to
               oversimplify the problem by picking a single issue and
               saying, "If we do this everything will be OK," and that’s
               not true. If we do that everything won’t be OK.

               Facing hypocrisy

               Ritter: Take a look at some of the statements coming
               out of the U.S., government. We passed [a U.N.]
               resolution in December -- and of course we had the
               abstentions -- it’s a binding resolution. And one of the
               things it calls for is the U.N. to pass a plan for
               improving the flow of humanitarian goods. Secretary
               General Kofi Annan has submitted this plan. The
               United States has come and said, "We’re going to veto
               it." That’s garbage. What it is, is that the U.S. doesn’t
               want a massive alleviation of the humanitarian situation
               in Iraq because that basically starts the crumbling
               process for the entire system of economic sanctions.

               So again, it’s pure hypocrisy being run out of the State
               Department and the National Security Council. But the
               American people don’t care because it’s oversimplified
               by politicians. For instance, Senator McCain, who I
               have nothing but the highest respect for – I’ll vote for
               him – but here’s a man who talks about "rogue nation
               rollback." Well I’d like to hear how he’s going to roll
               Iraq back. That’s a fascinating concept Senator, but
               let’s talk about the realities. Are you going to put
               American ground troops in Iraq? I don’t think so. Are
               you going to increase the number of sorties flown? To
               what extent? What’s your targeting plan? What are
               you going to target? Why are you going to target? Is
               Iraq a rogue nation? We’ve a got a lot of problems
               here.

               Compare and contrast Iraq with a country like North
               Korea. Right now, we’re entertaining a North Korean
               delegation to talk about their ballistic missile activity.
               Why can we deal diplomatically with North Korea and
               not with Iraq? There’s just a lot of inconsistencies with
               the way we pursue foreign policy. And a lot of it boils
               down to internal domestic politics. Because we’ve
               demonized Saddam Hussein, it’s politically
               unacceptable for anybody to go out and embrace a
               diplomatic solution for fear of being called an appeaser.