10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. When you were at Little Rascals were you ever
12 in any plays or any shows at Little Rascals?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Okay. You told, um, Doctor Betty that you were in a
15 -- some kind of a show at Little Rascals where you dressed
16 up in a suit and you got on a stage in the baby room; tell
7 me about that, tell me what kind of a show it was.
18 A I don't remember.
19 Q Did that happen? Were you in a show at Little
20 Rascals?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Was Richard in the show with you?
23 A I don't remember.
24 Q Okay. What about Will, was he in the show?
25 A Yes.
9984
1 Q Okay. And was the show in the baby room?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Who else was in the show, ah, besides you?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q Okay. Tell me what the show was about. Tell me what
6 you did in it.
7 A It was a jungle show.
8 Q It was a jungle show?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. And, ah, what did you do in the jungle show?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q Did you dress up in some costume?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. What was your costume?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Did the other children have on costumes?
7 A Yes.
18 Q And can you tell me what some of those costumes were?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Were there any grown-ups in the show?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Were there any grown-ups in the baby room?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Who were the grown-ups that were there in the
25 baby room?
9985
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q You told Doctor Betty that there was a stage in the
3 baby room, and who put the stage in there?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q Ah, tell me what the stage looked like.
6 A I don't remember.
7 Q When you were going to new Little Rascals, Alex, the
8 one in the brick building, did you ever go upstairs there?
9 A No.
10 Q Um, did you ever see any other children go upstairs?
11 A No.
12 Q Did you ever see any grown-ups go upstairs?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Who went upstairs?
15 A Mr. Bob.
16 Q Okay. Did any grown-ups besides Mr. Bob ever go
7 upstairs?
18 A No.
19 Q Alex, um, you told somebody that one time Mr. Bob
20 tried to shoot with Will with a bow and arrow. Tell us
21 about that, tell us what happened.
22 A I don't remember.
23 Q Well, did that happen?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Alex, you told, um, Doctor Betty that, ah, you were
9986
1 shut up in a refrigerator one time while you were going to
2 Little Rascals; tell me what happened with the refrigerator.
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Well, did you tell Doctor Betty that?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. What did you tell Doctor Betty?
7 A I don't remember.
8 Q Okay. Well, did that happen? Were you shut up in a
9 refrigerator?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Who shut you in the refrigerator?
12 A Mr. Bob.
13 Q Okay. Were there any grown-ups there besides Mr.
14 Bob?
15 A No.
16 Q Were there any other children there?
7 A No.
18 Q Now, the refrigerator that you were shut up in, where
19 was that? Was it inside the day care?
20 A Yes.
21 Q All right. And was that in the new Little Rascals?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. And was it in the kitchen there?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Do you know where Ms. Dawn was when you were shut up
9987
1 in the refrigerator?
2 A No.
3 Q Were there any other children in the refrigerator
4 besides you?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q Was there anything in the refrigerator when you were
7 shut up in there? Was there any food or anything in there?
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. Were there any shelves in the refrigerator?
10 A No.
11 Q Was it just all empty, there was nothing inside?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. When Mr. Bob shut you up in the refrigerator
14 what did he say?
15 A Nothing.
16 Q I'm sorry, Alex, I couldn't hear you.
7 A Nothing.
18 Q He didn't say anything?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. Did you say anything to Mr. Bob?
21 A No.
22 Q Do you know where the other grown-ups were when that
23 happened?
24 A No.
25 Q Do you know where the other children were when that
9988
1 happened?
2 A No.
3 Q Alex, when you were going to Little Rascals did you
4 ever get tied up by anybody?
5 A No.
6 Q Did you ever tie somebody else up?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you and Richard and Will ever play cowboys and
9 indians with ropes and stuff like that, bows and arrows?
10 A No.
11 Q Alex, did you ever go out on a boat with Will
12 Hollowell and get tied up with a -- a chain and have some
13 snakes and stuff put on you?
14 A No.
15 Q Did you ever go somewhere with Will Hollowell and get
16 hung up in a tree?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Tell me about that.
19 A I don't know how to pronounce it.
20 Q You don't know how to pronounce it?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Well, you can just skip the words you don't
23 know how to pronounce, okay. And just tell me the best you
24 can, use whatever words you want to, okay.
25 A We were hung up in a bag.
9989
1 Q Okay. Now, who was hung up in a bag?
2 A Me and Will.
3 Q Okay. And, ah, who hung you up in the bag?
4 A Mr. Bob.
5 Q Okay. Where were you when that happened?
6 A In Will's backyard.
7 Q You were in Will's backyard. Okay. Now, how did you
8 get over to Will's backyard?
9 A Mr. Bob drove us.
10 Q He drove you. What did he drive you in?
11 A His truck.
12 Q Okay. And had you been at the day care before you
13 got in his truck?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Were you in Ms. Shelly's room?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Now, tell me about how you got from Ms.
18 Shelly's room to the truck. Tell me what happened.
19 A Mr. Bob came and got me.
20 Q Okay. Did he say something to you when he came to
21 Ms. Shelly's room?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. Did Ms. Shelly say anything?
24 A No.
25 Q Well, how did you know you were supposed to go get in
9990
1 the truck?
2 A Mr. Bob told me.
3 Q Okay. So he told you to go get in the truck?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Were you in Ms. Shelly's room when he told you that?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And did he tell Will to go get in the truck?
8 A Yes.
9 Q All right. Did he tell any of the other children to
10 get in the truck?
11 A No.
12 Q After you got in Mr. Bob's truck what happened then?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Well, did you drive to Will Hollowell's house?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. What happened when you got to Will Hollowell's
7 house?
18 A He tied us up in a bag.
19 Q All right. Was anybody else there?
20 A No.
21 Q Um, were there any other grown-ups there besides Mr.
22 Bob?
23 A No.
24 Q Tell me how Mr. Bob tied you up in a bag?
25 A He tied me up with a rope.
9991
1 Q Okay. How did he get you in the bag?
2 A He put me in the bag.
3 Q Okay. And did you say anything or do anything when
4 he put you in the bag?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. And after he got you in the bag where was
7 Will?
8 A In the bag.
9 Q Was he in the same bag you were in?
10 A Yes.
11 Q All right. Well, after Mr. Bob got you and Will in
12 the bag and he tied you up, what happened then?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Okay. You said that he hung you up somewhere, was
15 that in a tree?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And where was the tree?
18 A In Will's backyard.
19 Q Okay. Now, how did Mr. Bob get you up the tree?
20 A He -- he, um, put us up there.
21 Q Okay. Did he have a ladder or something?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did he use the ladder to climb up to get you up in
24 the tree?
5 A Yes.
9992
1 Q All right. And after he climbed up the ladder and
2 carried you and Will up in the tree, what did he do then?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Okay. Well, did he hang you up there in the tree?
5 A Yes.
6 Q All right. Did Mr. Bob stay up there then or did he
7 climb back down the ladder?
8 A He climbed back down the ladder.
9 Q Okay. What did he do after he climbed back down the
10 ladder?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q Okay. How did you and Will get back down from the
13 tree again?
14 A He untied the bag.
15 Q All right. Did he come back up the ladder to get
16 you?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And did he carry you back down the ladder
19 again?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Were you still in the bag when he did that?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. You got out of the bag while you were still up
24 in the tree?
25 A Yes.
9993
1 Q Okay. So he untied you while you were up in the tree
2 and you and Will got out of the bag?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And then you both went back down the ladder with Mr.
5 Bob?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And what did you do then?
8 A We went back to Little Rascals.
9 Q Did you ride in the truck to go back there?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. What did Mr. Bob do with the ladder?
12 A Put it back in his truck.
13 Q Okay. So he got the ladder out of his truck?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And then he put it back in and then you went back to
16 Little Rascals?
7 A Yes.
18 Q When you went back to Little Rascals did you tell
19 Richard what you and Will had been doing?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Well, did you ever talk to Richard about it?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. Did you and Will ever talk about it again?
24 A No.
25 Q Now, did you and Will ever talk about the things that
9994
1 you did at Little Rascals?
2 A No.
3 Q Did, ah, you ever talk to your baby-sitter that you
4 had after you left Little Rascals? Did you ever talk to
5 your baby-sitter about Little Rascals?
6 A No.
7 Q Alex, did, ah, you ever, ah, see Will tied up in a
8 chair in the backyard or in the playground at Little Rascals
9 with a fire underneath the chair?
10 A No.
11 Q Did Will ever tell you about that?
12 A No.
13 Q When you were going to Little Rascals, Alex, did you
14 ever see any snakes there?
15 A No.
16 Q Did you and Will ever talk about being -- there being
7 any snakes at Little Rascals?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you and Richard ever talk about that?
20 A No.
21 Q Alex, you said that Ms. Dawn, ah, cooked food or
22 worked in the kitchen there at Little Rascals, right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did you like her?
25 A Yes.
9995
1 Q Okay. Now, did you know a man named Kenny when you
2 went to Little Rascals?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Did you ever see a man that people called
5 Kenny at Little Rascals?
6 A No.
7 Q Did you ever see a, ah, black man there at Little
8 Rascals?
9 A No.
10 Q Alex, when you went to the new Little Rascals in the
11 brick building, ah, your brother went there, too, right?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. Now, which room was your brother in?
14 A The baby room.
15 Q Okay. And your little brother's name is Stuart,
16 right?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Did you ever go down to the baby room to see Stuart?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. Did anybody ever do anything bad to Stuart
21 that you saw while you were there?
22 A No.
23 Q Alex, did you ever know a lady named Darlene or Ms.
24 Darlene that came to Little Rascals?
25 A No.
9996
1 Q You've told us about the teachers that you knew or
2 remembered that were at Little Rascals, and the teachers
3 were people that came there everyday and took care of the
4 children, right?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Were there other people that would come to Little
7 Rascals to work or do things besides the teachers?
8 A No.
9 Q Alex, do you know Scott Privott?
10 A No.
11 Q Do you know a man called Mr. Scott or Mr. Privott?
12 A No.
13 Q When you were there at, um, Little Rascals, Alex, did
14 anybody ever put a spoon in your number two?
15 A No.
16 Q Alex, the time that you told me about that you said
7 that Mr. Bob did something bad to you, did that happen more
18 than one time?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. Now, any of the times that that happened, did
21 it ever happen somewhere besides inside the Little Rascals
22 building?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. You were always inside that brick building
25 when those things happened?
9997
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. On any of the times that those things happened
3 can you tell me which room you were in or anything about
4 what the room looked like?
5 A No.
6 Q Can you tell me anything about whether or not there
7 was any furniture in the room or any toys?
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. On any of the times that any of those things
10 happened were there other children there?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Tell me the names of other children that you
13 remember were there when something like that happened?
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q Okay. You don't ever remember any of them?
16 A No.
7 Q Okay. On any of the times that any of those bad
18 things happened were there ever any other grown-ups there
19 besides Mr. Bob?
20 A No.
21 Q When those things happened, when the bad things
22 happened, did you go and tell Ms. Shelly when you went back
23 to your room?
24 A No.
25 Q Okay. Did you tell any of the other teachers that
9998
1 were there?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. Why didn't you go tell them?
4 A Because I didn't want to.
5 Q Okay. Um, now you told Mr. Williams that you didn't
6 tell your mom or dad because Mr. Bob said they wouldn't love
7 you anymore, right?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did Mr. Bob tell you something about the other
10 teachers?
11 A No.
12 Q And you liked the other teachers, didn't you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And they were always friends to you, weren't they?
15 A Yes.
16 Q You weren't afraid of the other teachers, were you?
7 A No.
18 Q Okay. Well, Alex, you said that you don't remember
19 Ashley Twiddy being at Little Rascals at all?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Do you know who Ashley Twiddy is?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. Do you ever see her now?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. Where do you see Ashley Twiddy?
9999
1 A In my classroom at school.
2 Q Okay. She's in school with you?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. When you were going to Little Rascals did you
5 ever go anywhere with Ashley Twiddy?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. Did anybody from the day care ever take you
8 away from the day care with Ashley Twiddy?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. Now, you said that -- that the one time you
11 did go away from the day care with Mr. Bob and Will on Mr.
12 Bob's truck when you went over to Will's house, right?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Besides that time did you ever leave the day
15 care with Mr. Bob?
16 A No.
7 Q Okay. Well, now you went one time to go on a boat,
18 right?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So you went on a boat one time?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And you went to Will's house one time, right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Ah, did you ever go to somebody's house
25 besides Will's house?
10000
1 A No.
2 Q Did Mr. Bob ever take you to somebody's house besides
3 Will's house?
4 A No.
5 Q You said that you went to Will's house that one time
6 that Mr. Bob took you up the ladder and you were tied up in
7 the bag; did you ever go to Will's house some other time
8 with Mr. Bob?
9 A No.
10 Q Besides the one time you have already told me about
11 when Mr. Bob took you on the tugboat, are you sure there are
12 no other times when he ever took you on another boat?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. I'm not sure that I understood what you are
15 saying. Did, ah, you go on a boat more than one time with
16 Mr. Bob?
7 A No.
18 Q Okay. So the one time you went on a tugboat is the
19 only time you ever went?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Now, Alex, you understand that -- that it's
22 okay to say if there was more than one time, right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. And you understand that it's very important
5 when you are in court that you tell the truth about
10001
1 everything, right?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And is that the truth, now?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. And when you tell us about the time that, ah,
6 Mr. Bob took you and Will over to Will's house and tied you
7 up in the bag and carried you up the tree; is that the
8 truth?
9 A Yes.
10 Q When you said that Mr. Bob put, ah, flower stems in
11 your number two, in your bottom, where did he get those
12 from?
13 A I don't know.
14 Q Okay. And you said that, ah, he -- he lit them and
15 they burned your bottom, right?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Now, that hurt, didn't it?
18 A Yes.
19 Q All right. Did you tell your mom or anybody that
20 your bottom had been burned?
21 A No.
22 Q Now, we've talked a lot, Alex, about whether things
23 are pretend or whether things are real. Now, was that
24 something that's real when flower stems were put in your
5 bottom and they were set on fire and they burned your
10002
1 bottom?
2 A Yes.
3 Q That's something that's real?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Well, when that happened, Alex, and it hurt
6 and it burned your bottom, did you tell anybody about it?
7 A No.
8 Q Who took care of your bottom when it was burned?
9 A I don't remember.
10 Q Well, did anybody put anything on it or do anything
11 to it to make it better or make it well?
12 A I don't remember.
13 Q When you were at Little Rascals, ah, Alex, did, um,
14 you ever see anybody going to the bathroom on somebody else?
15 A No.
16 Q Did you ever do that to anybody?
7 A No.
18 Q Did anybody ever do that to you? Did anybody ever go
19 to the bathroom on you?
20 A No.
21 Q Now, Alex, are you sure about that?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Alex, when you were in Ms. Shelly's room at Little
24 Rascals, did you ever see Will Hollowell shut up in some
5 kind of a box there?
10003
1 A No.
2 Q Okay. You never saw Will have to bust out of a box?
3 A No.
4 Q Did Will ever tell you about that?
5 A No.
6 Q When you go see Doctor Betty, what kind of things do
7 you talk to Doctor Betty about?
8 A I don't know.
9 Q Okay. Do you still go to see Doctor Betty?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Do you like going there?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. What do you do there that you like to do?
14 A Play.
15 Q Okay. What kind of things do you play at Doctor
16 Betty?
7 A PlayDoh.
18 Q You play with PlayDoh?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. Do you make things?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you ever color pictures there?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. Do you ever draw pictures?
5 A Yes.
10004
1 Q And what do you draw pictures about?
2 A Mr. Bob.
3 Q Okay. Do you draw pictures there about things
4 besides Mr. Bob?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q Okay. Do you draw pictures there about other people,
7 the other teachers at the day care?
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. Do you ever draw pictures about the other
10 children that went to the day care?
11 A No.
12 Q When you talk to Doctor Betty what do you talk about?
13 A These things.
14 Q About what?
15 A These things.
16 Q You mean the bad things at Little Rascals?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Do you talk about other things with Doctor
19 Betty?
20 A No.
21 MR. SPIVEY: All right, Alex. Thank you for
22 talking to me.
23 I don't have any other questions.
24 THE COURT: Have you, Mr. Williams, other
25 questions?
10005
1 MR. WILLIAMS: Just a minute.
2 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. WILLIAMS:
3 Q Alex, is it embarrassing to talk about these things?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Before you got started talking about these
6 things was it hard to talk about them?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. But now that you've been talking about them is
9 it hard to talk about them now?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay.
12 MR. WILLIAMS: I've got no further questions.
13 MR. SPIVEY: Alex, just a minute, okay.
14 RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SPIVEY:
15 Q Alex, ah, when you started talking about these
16 things, ah, I guess you are talking about bad things?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Who did you talk to about it when you started
19 talking about it?
20 A Doctor Betty.
21 Q Okay. And when you first started talking about it
22 what did you tell Doctor Betty?
23 A I don't remember.
24 Q Okay. Well, what were you doing that day when you
5 started talking about it?
10006
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Okay. And do you really remember now what it felt
3 like then to talk to Doctor Betty?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. So you remember what it felt like and what you
6 were doing the first time you went to see Doctor Betty?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. And you remember that it was real hard to talk
9 about it?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. And, um, you don't remember what you told her,
12 though?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Now, when you talked to other people, have you
15 talked to Mr. Williams about this?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Was it hard to talk to Mr. Williams about it?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. And you've talked to your mom and dad about
20 it?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Was it hard to talk to your mom and dad about it?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Have you talked to, ah, Ms. Toppin about it?
25 A No.
10007
1 Q Okay. Have you talked to anybody besides your mom
2 and dad and Doctor Betty?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. And you said that I think before that you and
5 Will and Richard have never talked about Little Rascals; is
6 that right?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Ya'll -- you and Will and Richard have never
9 talked about stories about Little Rascals or things that
10 happened at Little Rascals?
11 A No.
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