CROSS:
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q Okay. Who killed the babies?
3 A Sometimes Ms. Betsy or Mr. Bob.
4 Q And how did they kill them?
5 A With a gun.
6 Q Okay. Did they shoot them?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Did you really see the babies shot?
9 A Sometimes.
10 Q Sometimes you did?
11 A Yes.
12 Q When you really saw it, where did that happen?
13 A Outside.
14 Q Was that at the new Little Rascals, the brick
15 building, or was it at the old one, the old house?
16 A The new one.
17 Q Okay. And were you outside when the babies were
18 shot?
19 A Yes, we were playing on the playground.
20 Q Okay. And, now, did you see Mr. Bob shoot the babies
21 or did you see Ms. Betsy shoot the babies?
22 A Both.
23 Q Okay. What kind of a gun did they shoot the babies
24 with?
5 A Some kind of black gun; it was a little -- real
7717
1 little.
2 Q All right. Was it loud? When they shot the babies
3 did it make a loud noise?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And did the babies bleed?
6 A Yes.
7 Q After the babies were dead what did they do with
8 them?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Okay. Now, is that the truth, Brooke?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Are you sure it's the truth, Brooke?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Now, you understand you were taught in court school
15 about telling the truth, right?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And that everything you say has to be the truth,
18 right?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. Now, is it the truth about Mr. Bob and Ms.
21 Betsy killing the babies?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did they really kill real babies?
24 A Sometimes.
5 Q Sometimes. Well, now when you talked to Ms. Judy you
7718
1 didn't tell her that happened at the day care, did you?
2 A No.
3 Q You told Ms. Judy it happened in outerspace, didn't
4 you?
5 Brooke, isn't that what you told Ms. Judy that Mr.
6 Bob and Ms. Betsy killed the babies in outerspace?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And you told her that you went to outerspace with Mr.
9 Bob and Ms. Betsy in a hot air balloon, right?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you really do that?
12 A It was a spaceship.
13 Q Okay. It wasn't a balloon; you went in a spaceship?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Is that the truth?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Is that the truth like all the other things you told
18 us?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And these are things that Ms. Judy helped you talk
21 about, didn't she?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Brooke, when you went to Little Rascals did anything
24 ever happen to your hair?
5 A No.
7719
1 Q Nothing ever happened to your hair there?
2 A Well, sometimes Mr. Bob would pull it.
3 Q Okay. How would he pull your hair?
4 A In the back.
5 Q And why would Mr. Bob pull your hair?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q Okay. Well, do you remember you started cutting your
8 hair at home sometimes with the scissors when you weren't
9 supposed to?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did your mom get mad at you for that?
12 A Sometimes.
13 Q But Ms. Judy helped you understand that you hated
14 your hair because of what happened at the day care; isn't
15 that right?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And you told Ms. Judy that was silly to hate your
18 hair, wasn't it?
19 A Yes.
20 Q That was a silly thing to say. But you hadn't never
21 told anybody that Mr. Bob had ever done anything to your
22 hair until Ms. Judy helped you talk about it, had you?
23 A No.
24 Q Brooke, can you tell me about the hot sauce at the
5 day care?
7720
1 A It was real hot.
2 Q Okay. What happened with the hot sauce?
3 A He would put it in children's mouth.
4 Q Okay. Who would put it in children's mouth?
5 A Mr. Bob.
6 Q Did he put it in all the children's mouth?
7 A Some.
8 Q Some. Okay. Who were the children whose mouth he
9 put it in?
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Okay. Where was he when that happened?
12 A In the kitchen.
13 Q And where were all the children when that happened?
14 A Outside playing.
15 Q Did he ever put the hot sauce on you?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And where did he put it?
18 A On my shirt.
19 Q Okay. Did he ever put hot sauce on Lauren, your
20 little sister?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Where did he put the hot sauce on Lauren?
23 A On her pants.
24 Q Okay. Well, now when you talked to Ms. Judy about
25 the hot sauce you told her that he put it in Lauren's eyes,
7721
1 right?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Did he really do that?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. And who else was there when he put hot sauce
6 in Lauren's eyes?
7 A Katie.
8 Q Okay. What did Katie say when she saw Mr. Bob
9 putting hot sauce in little Lauren's eyes?
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Was that at the old day care or at the new day care?
12 A I can't remember.
13 Q Okay. And is that something that Ms. Judy helped you
14 talk about?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Brooke, you said you liked Little Friends a lot when
17 you went there; is that right?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Well, did you like it there when Ms. Rita kicked the
20 children?
21 A No.
22 Q You didn't like that?
23 A (Shakes head), no.
24 Q Do you know why Ms. Rita kicked the children?
5 A Because they wanted their moms.
7722
1 Q Okay. Were they crying?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Were they crying because Ms. Rita kicked them?
4 A Yes.
5 Q What did Ms. Mitchener say when Ms. Rita was kicking
6 the children?
7 A She said stop it.
8 Q Well, did Ms. Rita stop kicking the children when Ms.
9 Mitchener told her to?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did Ms. Rita do bad things to the children besides
12 kick them?
13 A No.
14 Q Did you tell anybody about Ms. Rita kicking the
15 children?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. Did Ms. Mitchener ever kick the children or
18 just Ms. Rita?
19 A Just Ms. Rita.
20 Q Okay. Now, you had a Sunday school teacher named Ms.
21 Lynn, right?
22 A Yes.
23 Q You remember her, don't you?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. And did you say that Ms. Lynn kicked children
7723
1 in Sunday school class sometimes?
2 A I can't remember.
3 Q Okay. Did you say that Ms. Lynn pulled her dress up
4 over her head in Sunday school class one time?
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Okay. Brooke, did you ever see anybody at the day
7 care with their clothes off?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Who did you see with their clothes off?
10 A Ms. Dawn.
11 Q And what was Ms. Dawn doing?
12 A Dancing around the room without any clothes on.
13 Q Okay. Whose room was she dancing around?
14 A Hers.
15 Q Well, now, Ms. Dawn worked in the kitchen, right?
16 A I can't remember.
17 Q Do you remember if Ms. Dawn fixed the snacks?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Do you remember if Ms. Dawn fixed lunch?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Sometimes Ms. Dawn would go down and help take
22 care of the children that came in after school, right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And -- was Katie, your sister Katie, in that room?
25 A I can't remember.
7724
1 Q Okay. Well, now you remember where Ms. Shelly's room
2 was, right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And that wasn't Dawn's room, was it?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. You remember Ms. Robin's room?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Dawn wasn't dancing around in that room?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. You remember the drop-in room that the
11 children came in from school went to?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. Is that the room you are talking about Dawn
14 danced around in?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Was Katie in there when Ms. Dawn was dancing
17 around the room with no clothes on?
18 A No, she was out in the hall putting her book bag up.
19 Q Okay. Well, did Katie come in the room after she put
20 her book bag up?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Were your friends in the room with you when
23 Ms. Dawn was dancing around the room with no clothes on?
24 A No.
25 Q Was there anybody else in there besides you and Ms.
7725
1 Dawn?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. Did you ever see anybody else dancing around
4 the day care with no clothes on?
5 A No.
6 Q Brooke, can you tell me about the witches at the day
7 care?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Tell me about those.
10 A Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy would, um -- the people that
11 were in Ms. Shelly's room would, um, scare the children that
12 were in Ms. Shelly's room. Ms. Betsy and Mr. Bob would, um,
13 dress up as witches.
14 Q Okay. And how would they scare the children?
15 A They will dress up as witches.
16 Q All right. Did they come in Ms. Shelly's room
17 dressed up like that?
18 A They would just stand at the door.
19 Q Just stand at the doorway. Okay. And did that scare
20 all of the children when they came and stood at the doorway
21 dressed up like witches?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you ever see people there dressed up like
24 pumpkins?
25 A No.
7726
1 Q Brooke, did Ms. Betsy ever stick a needle in you when
2 you were at the day care?
3 A I can't remember.
4 Q Okay. Well, didn't you tell Ms. Judy that Ms. Betsy
5 stuck a needle in you?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And you had to go get an x-ray?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. And when you went to get the x-ray did you
10 tell the doctor that Ms. Betsy had stuck a needle in you?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Well, who took you to get the x-ray?
13 A I can't remember.
14 Q Do you know who your doctor is?
15 A No.
16 Q Brooke, I am going to show you some pictures, okay.
17 Can you look at some pictures for me?
18 A (Nods head).
19 Q Okay. Brooke, I put a little blue sticker; see the
20 little blue sticker back here?
21 A Yes.
22 Q It's got a 19 on it. You know that lady over there
23 is writing everything down?
24 A Yes.
25 Q If we want to look later and find out what paper we
7727
1 were talking about, she'll have in there that we were
2 talking about paper number 19?
3 A (Nods head).
4 Q Okay. And I am going to put this over here and let
5 you look at them. And this one has a number 1 at the top of
6 the page; have you ever seen a picture like that before?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you a picture like
9 that before?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. There's another one right behind it, and
12 that's number 2; have you ever seen a picture like that
13 before?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Let's look at picture number 3; have you ever
16 seen one like that?
17 A No.
18 Q Okay. How about picture number 4, have you ever seen
19 one like that?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you anything like that
22 picture?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. This is picture number 5; have you ever seen
25 one of those before?
7728
1 A No.
2 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you a picture like
3 that before?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Now, that's picture number 6 there; have you
6 ever seen one of those before?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Now, take your time, now, okay. You can look
9 as long as you like. That's picture number 7; have you ever
10 seen one of those before?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you a picture like
13 that before?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Okay, now, that's picture number 8. Have you
16 ever seen anything like the things in that picture before?
17 A No.
18 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you a picture like
19 that before?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. That's number 9; have you ever seen one of
22 those?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. And that's picture number 10; have you ever
25 seen one of those before?
7729
1 A No.
2 Q And that's picture number 11; have you ever seen
3 anything like that before?
4 A No.
5 Q Has anybody ever showed you a picture that looked
6 like that before?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. And this is picture number l2; have you ever
9 seen anything like what's in that picture?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you anything like
12 that?
13 A No.
14 Q This is picture number 13; have you ever seen
15 anything like that?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. And nobody has ever showed you anything like
18 that?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. That's picture number 14; have you ever seen
21 anything like that?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. What is that? What does it look like to you?
24 A A circle.
25 Q And you have never seen anything like that at the day
7730
1 care?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. This is picture number 15; have you ever seen
4 anything like that before?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. Has anybody ever showed you a picture like
7 that before?
8 A No.
9 Q That's picture number 16; have you ever seen anything
10 like that?
11 A No.
12 Q Has anybody ever showed you a picture like that
13 before?
14 A No.
15 Q Have you ever seen anybody doing like that with their
16 hand?
17 A No.
18 Q Whoops, I put this one in here twice. My teacher is
19 going to give me a bad grade for that, isn't she?
20 Okay. That's number 18. Have you ever seen a
21 picture like that?
22 A No.
23 Q Have you ever seen anything like that anywhere
24 before?
25 A No.
7731
1 Q Okay. Do you remember if anybody has ever showed you
2 any pictures like that before?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Thank you, Brooke.
5 Now, Brooke, do you remember at all Ms. Judy showing
6 you these pictures before?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Brooke, do you remember Ms. Judy showing you
9 any of those pictures when you talked about having been in
10 outerspace?
11 A I can't remember.
12 Q Okay. Brooke, you said that, ah, sometimes you got
13 pills at the day care; can you tell me where the pills came
14 from?
15 A I don't know.
16 Q Okay. Do you know who went and got the pills?
17 A I can't remember.
18 Q Okay. Were they given to any children besides you?
19 A I can't remember.
20 Q Okay. Where were you when the pills were given to
21 you?
22 A I can't remember.
23 Q Was that at the old day care or at the new day care?
24 A I can't remember.
5 Q Now, can you tell me what the pills looked like?
7732
1 A They were white.
2 Q Okay. Did they look sort of like an aspirin looks
3 like?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. And can you tell me what the pills were in?
6 A A little case.
7 Q In a little case, what did the little case look like?
8 A I can't remember.
9 Q Okay. Who was there when you were given the pills?
10 A Mr. Bob.
11 Q Okay. Who else was there besides Mr. Bob?
12 A I can't remember.
13 Q Okay. Weren't there other children there?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Okay. Were other children given pills?
16 A I can't remember.
17 Q Okay. Well, now, Brooke you told Ms. Judy that they,
18 ah -- that they had cocaine and marijuana there, didn't you?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And, ah, tell me what the cocaine looked like.
21 A I can't remember.
22 Q Okay. Tell me what the marijuana looked like.
23 A It was in a jar.
24 Q Okay. And do you remember what color it was?
25 A No.
7733
1 Q Okay. Well, did you tell Ms. Judy that it was red
2 and white?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. And did you tell Ms. Judy that -- well, Ms.
5 Judy asked you if it was a drinkie-drinkie kind of drug,
6 right?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And, what did you tell Ms. Judy that it tasted like?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Okay. Do you remember how you knew that what you saw
11 was marijuana?
12 A I can't remember.
13 Q Well, you told Ms. Judy that you knew because it was
14 written on the side of the bottle that it was marijuana,
15 right?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And is that the truth?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Was it written on the side of the bottle?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And you told Ms. Judy that when your mom took your
22 temperature at home when you were sick it said marijuana on
23 the thermometer, right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And that your temperature was forty hundred?
7734
1 A Yes.
2 Q Where did the jar come from that the marijuana was
3 in?
4 A I don't know.
5 Q Okay. Who made you drink it?
6 A Mr. Bob.
7 Q Okay. And where were you when Mr. Bob made you drink
8 that?
9 A In the kitchen.
10 Q Okay. Who else was in the kitchen?
11 A I can't remember.
12 Q Okay. Well, did the other children have to drink it,
13 too?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Where were all the other grown-ups?
16 A Outside playing.
17 Q Okay. Now, was this -- did this happen at the old
18 Little Rascals, the old house, or did it happen at the new
19 Little Rascals, the brick building?
20 A It's the brick -- the brick building.
21 Q Okay. Now, when Ms. Nancy talked to you you said
22 that you got sick one time but you were home with your momma
23 and so then she asked you did you ever get sick at the day
24 care; did you ever get sick at the day care?
25 A I can't remember.
7735
1 Q You can't remember if you ever got sick there?
2 A (Shakes head).
3 Q Did anybody ever give you anything at the day care,
4 Brooke, that made you sick?
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Did you ever throw up at the day care?
7 A No.
8 Q Brooke, are you getting a little tired?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Would you like a little break?
11 A Yes.
12 MR. SPIVEY: Judge?
13 THE COURT: Fifteen minutes. Come back,
14 please, in fifteen minutes.
15 (Recess).
16 THE COURT: Please have your witness come back,
17 Ms. Lamb.
18 MS. LAMB: I think we're missing a juror.
19 THE COURT: Please have your witness come back,
20 Ms. Lamb.
21 MS. LAMB: Okay. With the Court's permission,
22 may Mrs. Small come up near her daughter?
23 THE COURT: Yes, indeed.
24 Do you need another chair? He'll bring it up
25 for you if you like. Oh, you've got one.
7736
1 Now, she needs to be a bit closer to the
2 microphone.
3 You may continue when ready, Mr. Spivey.
4 MR. SPIVEY: Thank you, Your Honor.
5 BY MR. SPIVEY:
6 Q Brooke, you were telling me, ah, a little while ago
7 that, um, Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy came to the door of Shelly's
8 room one time dressed up like witches, remember?
9 A (Nods head).
10 Q Can you tell me what they looked like? What they had
11 on?
12 A They had a black suit.
13 Q Okay. Did they both have the same kind of suit on?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did they have witches' hats?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Did you ever see anybody dressed up like
18 anything else at the day care?
19 A No.
20 Q Did you ever dress up like anything else at the day
21 care?
22 A No.
23 Q Did you ever see any of the other children dress up
24 in anything besides their regular clothes?
25 A No.
7737
1 Q Okay. Can you tell me, Brooke, about the things
2 that, ah, Ms. Shelly did at the day care?
3 A I can't remember.
4 Q Okay. Well, you said that you didn't like Ms.
5 Shelly; is that right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Why didn't you like Ms. Shelly?
8 A Because she's mean.
9 Q Okay. What did Ms. Shelly do that was mean?
10 A She, um, kicked me one time.
11 Q Okay. Brooke, where did she kick you?
12 A In -- in my stomach.
13 Q Do you remember where you were when Ms. Shelly kicked
14 you in the stomach?
15 A No.
16 Q What did you do after Ms. Shelly kicked you in the
17 stomach?
18 A I felt sick.
19 Q Did you get sick?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Do you know why Ms. Shelly kicked you in the
22 stomach?
23 A No.
24 Q Were any of your friends there when Ms. Shelly kicked
25 you in the stomach?
7738
1 A No.
2 Q Was anybody else there when Ms. Shelly kicked you in
3 the stomach?
4 A No.
5 Q Did Ms. Shelly do something else that made you think
6 she was mean?
7 A I can't remember.
8 Q Okay. You remember Ms. Robin, don't you?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Did you like Ms. Robin?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Why didn't you like Ms. Robin?
13 A Because she did bad things.
14 Q And what kind of bad things did Ms. Robin do?
15 A She would kick the people that was in her classroom.
16 Q Okay. Did you see Ms. Robin kicking them?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Who did she kick?
19 A Some children.
20 Q Do you know their names?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. And do you know where on their bodies she
23 kicked them?
24 A In their stomach.
25 Q Did she say anything when she kicked them?
7739
1 A No.
2 Q Do you know why she was kicking them?
3 A No.
4 Q Now, did Ms. Robin do other bad things besides kick
5 the children in their stomachs?
6 A No.
7 Q Did Ms. Robin kick a whole bunch of children or did
8 she just kick one?
9 A I think she kicked a whole bunch.
10 Q And they were all children in her room?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. What were you doing in Ms. Robin's room?
13 A I was walking down the hall.
14 Q Okay. And you saw through the doorway?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. What did the children do when Ms. Robin kicked
17 them in the stomach?
18 A They were screaming.
19 Q Now, when Ms. Shelly kicked you in the stomach where
20 were the other children?
21 A Outside playing.
22 Q When you saw Ms. Robin kicking children were all the
23 other children in their rooms?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. And you said you were walking down the hall
7740
1 and you saw through Ms. Robin's doorway children being
2 kicked?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. Where were you going?
5 A We were going outside to play.
6 Q Okay. Was your class with you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Did Ms. Shelly walk by the door, too?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did she see Ms. Robin kicking the children?
11 A No.
12 Q Why didn't Ms. Shelly see?
13 A Because she had her face forward.
14 Q Okay. Did the other children see Ms. Robin kicking
15 the children?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Did all the other children see that?
18 A Some.
19 Q Some of them did. Do you know the names of the other
20 children who saw that?
21 A No.
22 Q Now, you know who Ms. Robin's husband is, don't you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. And did you know who he was when you went to
25 the day care?
7741
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. Did you like him?
3 A No.
4 Q Why not?
5 A Because he was on Ms. Robin's side.
6 Q Okay. What do you mean that he was on Ms. Robin's
7 side?
8 A She -- he liked Ms. Robin.
9 Q He liked Ms. Robin?
10 A (Nods head).
11 Q And that's why you don't like him?
12 A (Nods head).
13 Q Okay. Do you know what his name is?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. And did he ever do any bad things at the day
16 care?
17 A No.
18 Q Did, ah, Ms. Robin ever do any bad things to you?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. Did Ms. Shelly ever do any bad things to you
21 besides kick you in the stomach?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. What other bad things did Ms. Shelly do?
24 A She screamed at me.
5 Q Okay. And when she screamed what did she say?
7742
1 A She hated me.
2 Q Why did Ms. Shelly say she hated you?
3 A I don't know.
4 Q When that happened, Brooke, were you at the old day
5 care or at the new day care?
6 A The new one.
7 Q Now, did, ah, Ms. Cindy ever do bad things at the day
8 care?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Did you like Ms. Cindy?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Why didn't you like Ms. Cindy?
13 A Because she did bad things.
14 Q What kind of bad things did Ms. Cindy do?
15 A I can't remember.
16 Q Did Ms. Cindy do bad things like Mr. Bob did?
17 A Sometimes.
18 Q Sometimes.
19 Q Did Ms. Cindy do bad things like Ms. Betsy did?
20 A Sometimes.
21 Q Did you like Ms. Betty, Ms. Betty Ann?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. Why didn't you like Ms. Betty Ann?
24 A Because she threw Lauren.
25 Q Okay. She threw Lauren?
7743
1 A Yes.
2 Q Can you tell me what happened when she threw Lauren?
3 A She -- Lauren got hurt.
4 Q Okay. Where was Lauren when Ms. Betty Ann got her
5 and threw her?
6 A She was in her room.
7 Q In the baby room?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Were you there?
10 A I was going to the, um, kitchen to eat my snack.
11 Q Okay. And you passed by the baby room when you were
12 going to the kitchen?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And tell me what you saw Ms. Betty Ann doing?
15 A Kicking her and throwing her.
16 Q Okay. Was Lauren in her crib or was she on the
17 floor?
18 A On the floor.
19 Q And what was Ms. Cindy doing while Ms. Betty Ann was
20 kicking Lauren and throwing her?
21 A I can't remember.
22 Q Do you remember what Ms. Brenda was doing when that
23 happened?
24 A No.
25 Q Was Katie there when that happened?
7744
1 A No, she was at school.
2 Q Okay. Did you tell Katie about it?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Now, you told, ah, Ms. Judy that, ah, somebody
5 almost stuck a knife in -- in Lauren's eye; do you remember
6 that?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Who tried to stick a knife in Lauren's eye?
9 A Ms., um, Betsy.
10 Q Okay. And where did that happen?
11 A In Ms. Betty's room.
12 Q In the baby room?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And can you -- where -- how did you see that?
15 A I was going outside.
16 Q Okay. Were the other children in your class with
17 you?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Was Ms. Shelly with you?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Did Ms. Shelly see that happen?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What did Ms. Shelly say when she saw Ms. Betsy trying
24 to stick a knife in Lauren's eye?
25 A She was laughing.
7745
1 Q She was laughing?
2 A (Nods head).
3 Q What did the other children do?
4 A I can't remember.
5 Q Did you stay there and watch to see what happened?
6 A No.
7 Q Who was in the room besides Ms. Betsy and Lauren?
8 A Nobody else.
9 Q Okay. They were all alone in there?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Were there other babies in there?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Was anybody taking care of the other babies?
14 A Ms. Betty.
15 Q Okay. So was Ms. Betty in the room then with Ms.
16 Betsy --
17 A Yes.
18 Q -- when that happened. She was. And what did Ms.
19 Betsy -- I'm sorry, what did Ms. Betty say when Ms. Betsy
20 tried to stick the knife in Lauren's eye?
21 A She was sitting there laughing.
22 Q She laughed, too?
23 A (Nods head).
24 Q Brooke, on the time that, ah, and Mr. Bob and Betsy
25 were dressed up like witches, was that at the old day care
7746
1 or the new day care?
2 A I can't remember.
3 Q Okay. Did you tell Ms. Judy or your mom one time
4 that, ah, Mr. Bob shut you in a cabinet at the old day care
5 and Ms. Brenda Parks got you out?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. When Ms. Brenda got you out of the cabinet,
8 what did she say?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q And where was the cabinet that you got shut up in?
11 A In the kitchen.
12 Q Okay. And that was in the kitchen at the old day
13 care?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Was it a cabinet down low or was it a cabinet
16 up high?
17 A Down low.
18 Q Okay. And was anybody else shut in there or just
19 you?
20 A Just me.
21 Q And who shut you in the cabinet?
22 A Mr. Bob.
23 Q Okay. And when Ms. Brenda got you out of the
24 cabinet, did you tell her that Mr. Bob had put you in there?
25 A No.
7747
1 Q Okay. Why didn't you tell her?
2 A Because she didn't ask me.
3 Q Okay. Brooke, when you said that there were people
4 taking pictures at the day care, was that at the old day
5 care or the new day care -- and the old one is the old house
6 right?
7 A (Nods head).
8 Q And the new one is the brick building? Were the
9 pictures at the brick building or the old house?
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Okay. Who was taking the pictures?
12 A Mr. Bob.
13 Q Okay. And where did the camera come from?
14 A He bought it.
15 Q Okay. Where did he get it from?
16 A I don't know.
17 Q Were you out in the play yard or inside when the
18 pictures were taken?
19 A Inside.
20 Q And was anybody else inside with you?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Where were all the other children?
23 A They were outside playing.
24 Q Where were all the other grown-ups?
25 A Outside with the children.
7748
1 Q So it was just you and Mr. Bob in there?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Do you remember what room you were in?
4 A Ms. Shelly's.
5 Q Okay. Well, Ms. Shelly didn't have her own room at
6 the day care, did she?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. There were just two great big rooms, right?
9 A (Nods head).
10 Q The room up front where you came in the front door?
11 A (Nods head).
12 Q Do you remember that?
13 A (Nods head).
14 Q And then there was a room back behind that; do you
15 remember that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Do you know which one of those rooms you were in?
18 A The one in the very back.
19 Q Okay. Now, was that the only time that anybody took
20 any pictures?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Was there ever any other time when anybody took any
23 pictures of you?
24 A I can't remember.
25 Q Okay. Brooke, do you know a boy named Jonathan?
7749
1 A I don't know.
2 Q Did you ever see anybody named Jonathan at the day
3 care?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you know a boy named Jason Potts?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Did you ever see Jason at the day care?
8 A No.
9 Q Did you ever see Jason do bad things somewhere?
10 A No.
11 Q Brooke, did you ever see anybody with any candles at
12 the day care?
13 A I can't remember.
14 Q Okay. Did anybody ever put a candle on your shoulder
15 and burn you with it?
16 A I can't remember.
17 Q Now, you told Ms. Judy that, ah, Ms. Betty Ann
18 dressed up like a witch at the day care?
19 A (Nods head).
20 Q Okay. Can you tell me about that?
21 A She, um, scared, um, Lauren while I was walking -- my
22 class was walking down the hall.
23 Q Okay. How was Ms. Betty dressed when she did that?
24 A As a witch.
25 Q Okay. Can you tell me what her costume looked like?
7750
1 A A witch.
2 Q Okay. Did she have the hat that goes with it, the
3 big, tall, pointy hat?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did she have on a black robe or something?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And how was she scaring Lauren?
8 A Screaming at her.
9 Q Okay. How was Ms. Cindy and Ms. Brenda dressed while
10 Ms. Betty was dressed up like a witch?
11 A They were outside.
12 Q Okay. Was anybody inside then except for Ms. Betty
13 and you?
14 Do you remember, Brooke, was anybody else in the baby
15 room?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. And you were going by with your class going
18 outside?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And was Ms. Shelly with you then?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. What did Ms. Shelly do when she saw Ms. Betty
23 Ann dressed up like a witch?
24 A She was sitting there laughing.
25 Q Laughing. Now, you went to dance class one time,
7751
1 right?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And who taught you dance? Who was your teacher?
4 A Ms., um -- I can't remember her name.
5 Q Okay. Did you go to Ms. Audrey's or Ms. Stever's
6 dance class one time?
7 A Ms. Audrey's.
8 Q Ms. Audrey's?
9 A (Nods head).
10 Q Okay. You went to her dance school once?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Did you go to Ms. Rossman's dance school?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Did you ever tell Ms. Rossman any bad things
15 that Ms. Betty did at the day care?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. Did you ever tell your mother after you had
18 been to Ms. Rossman's that Betty had come to the dance class
19 and she was a bad person?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. What did you tell your mom about Ms. Betty?
22 A I told her that she was at the dance school.
23 Q Okay. Did you ever tell your mother or Ms. Rossman
24 that Betty had cut your head off or had cut Ashley's head
5 off?
7752
1 A No.
2 Q Brooke, did anybody ever do anything at the day care
3 about putting sand in your eyes?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Who did that?
6 A Mr. Bob.
7 Q And how did that happen?
8 A Outside.
9 Q Okay. And were you on the play yard?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Well, tell me what happened.
12 A He'd get some sand in his hand, just put it in my
13 eyes.
14 Q Okay. What did you do after he put the sand in your
15 eyes?
16 A It stung my eyes.
17 Q Okay. Did anybody help you wash the sand out of your
18 eyes?
19 A No.
20 Q Well, how did you get the sand out of your eyes?
21 A I just wiped it with my hand.
22 Q Okay. Well, why did Mr. Bob throw sand in your eyes?
23 A I don't know.
24 Q Did he do that to any other children?
25 A I can't remember.
7753
1 Q Were the other children all out there playing when
2 Mr. Bob threw the sand in your eyes?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Were the other grown-ups out there?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did that happen at the old house or did that happen
7 at the new brick building?
8 A I can't remember.
9 Q Did you ever see Mr. Bob throw sand in anybody else's
10 eyes?
11 A I can't remember.
12 Q Brooke, did you ever see any snakes at the day care?
13 A No.
14 Q Did anybody ever try to scare you with any snakes?
15 A I can't remember.
16 Q Did anybody ever try to scare any of the other
17 children at the day care with snakes?
18 A I can't remember.
19 Q Did you talk to Ms. Judy about snakes?
20 A I can't remember.
21 Q Well, Ms. Judy talked to you about snakes, didn't
22 she?
23 A Yes.
24 Q You know Meredith Farless, don't you? Do you know
25 Meredith?
7754
1 A (Shakes head).
2 Q Do you ever remember -- remember anybody named
3 Meredith going to see Ms. Judy with you?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you remember you were supposed to try and help
6 them talk because they weren't talking about the day care
7 the way they were supposed to?
8 A I can't remember.
9 Q Brooke, do you know Judson?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Judson Smith?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. You know Judson's sister Leslie Smith?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Is Leslie a friend of yours?
16 A No, it's, um, Katie's friend.
17 Q Okay. Leslie is Katie's friend?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Leslie and Katie are about the same age, aren't they?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And you know Leslie and Judson's momma, Nancy Smith,
22 right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Did you like Ms. Nancy when she came to the
25 day care?
7755
1 A No.
2 Q Why not?
3 A Because she did bad things to, um, children.
4 Q What did Ms. Nancy do to the children?
5 A She'll spank them.
6 Q Okay. Did she do anything besides spank children?
7 A Yes, kick them.
8 Q And what children would she kick?
9 A A lot.
10 Q Did she do bad things to the children like Mr. Bob
11 and Ms. Betsy did?
12 A I can't remember.
13 Q Did she do anything to Lauren?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Can you remember any other bad things that you saw
16 Ms. Nancy do?
17 A No.
18 Q Brooke, you told, ah, Ms. Nancy over there that you
19 went out on a boat one time; can you tell me about that?
20 A One day he took us on his boat, and he said if we
21 told our moms he, um, he would, um, take us on -- on his
22 boat and tip us over.
23 Q How did you get to the boat?
24 A I can't remember.
25 Q Who went with you?
7756
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q Where were all the other children?
3 A They were, um, outside playing.
4 Q Okay. Where were all the grown-ups when you went to
5 get on the boat?
6 A Outside with the kids.
7 Q And, ah, did anybody go to get on the boat beside you
8 and Mr. Bob?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q What did the boat look like?
11 A It was white.
12 Q Okay. Was it a great big boat or a little bitty
13 boat?
14 A A medium size.
15 Q Okay. What did you do after you got on the boat?
16 A I can't remember.
17 Q Tell me how you got in the boat.
18 A There's a little dock.
19 Q Okay. And was the little dock at a place that you're
20 used to going to?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Do you know where it was?
23 A No.
24 Q Have you ever been there except when you went there
25 with Mr. Bob?
7757
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q Did you go on the boat one time or did you go more
3 than one time?
4 A One.
5 Q After you got on the boat did the boat go somewhere?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Where did it go?
8 A It went in the water.
9 Q Okay. Did you go way out in the water?
10 A A little ways.
11 Q Okay. After you went out there a little ways, did
12 you do anything then?
13 A I can't remember.
14 Q Did you get in the water?
15 A No.
16 Q When the boat went out into the water who was driving
17 the boat?
18 A Mr. Bob.
19 Q Okay. Did the boat have a motor?
20 A I can't remember.
21 Q Did you hear the motor run when you went out there?
22 A I can't remember.
23 Q What did you do when you came back?
24 A We went inside.
25 Q Okay. How did you get back to the day care?
7758
1 A He drove back to the dock and then we walked on the
2 dock and then we -- he drove us back to the day care.
3 Q Okay. What did you drive in?
4 A His van.
5 Q Okay. And was this at the old day care, the old
6 house, or the new brick building?
7 A The new brick building.
8 Q Now, did you tell Ms. Judy about the boat?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Okay. Did you tell Ms. Brenda, the police lady,
11 about the boat?
12 A I can't remember.
13 Q Did you tell your momma about the boat?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Brooke, um, you said that one time Mr. Bob took you
16 to his house; is that right?
17 A Yes.
18 Q I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
19 A Yes.
20 Q Were you going to the old day care, the old house,
21 when he did that, or were you going to the new brick
22 building?
23 A I can't remember.
24 Q Who went with you?
25 A I can't remember.
7759
1 Q How did you get there?
2 A By his van.
3 Q What did you do when you got to his house?
4 A We went inside.
5 Q Okay. What did you do after you got inside?
6 A I can't remember.
7 Q Were any of your friends with you?
8 A I can't remember.
9 Q Were any other grown-ups there with you?
10 A Mr. Bob.
11 Q Okay. Were there any grown-ups there beside Mr. Bob?
12 A I can't remember.
7771
1 THE COURT: Thank you.
2 Have you other questions, Ms. Lamb?
3 MS. LAMB: About two, Your Honor.
4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. LAMB:
5 Q Hi, Brooke. Now, Brooke, a little while ago you were
6 asked about babies being killed; were these real babies or
7 were they baby dolls?
8 A Baby dolls.
9 Q And when you talked about going into outerspace and
10 seeing babies killed, was that something that really
11 happened or was it -- or what was it?
12 A It was a story.
13 Q Who told you that story?
14 A Mr. Bob.
15 Q And, ah, they were asking you whether Betsy had stuck
16 a needle in you and then you had to go get an x-ray. You
17 were talking about that; do you remember that?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that you did an
20 x-ray by taking a picture?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And that to do that Mr. Bob made you take your
23 clothes off to get the x-ray?
24 MR. SPIVEY: Objection --
5 MR. MILLER: Objection.
7772
1 MR. SPIVEY: -- to the leading, Your Honor.
2 A Yes.
3 THE COURT: Overruled.
4 Please answer.
5 BY MS. LAMB:
6 Q What did you say?
7 A Yes.
8 Q So you never told Ms. Judy that you went to the
9 doctor to get an x-ray; is that correct -- is that right?
10 A Yes.
11 MS. LAMB: Thank you, Brooke.
12 THE COURT: Any other questions?
13 MR. SPIVEY: Just briefly, Your Honor.
14 RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SPIVEY:
15 Q Brooke, when you took your break a while ago who did
16 you go talk to?
17 A Ms. Nancy.
18 Q Okay. And what did you talk to Ms. Nancy about?
19 A If I could sit with my mom.
20 Q Okay. Now, Brooke a little while ago when you told
21 me that, ah, you saw Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy kill babies, you
22 told me that they were real and that that really happened
23 and you told me that was the truth, didn't you?
24 Didn't you tell me that was the truth, Brooke?
25 A Yes.
7773
1 Q Well, now, when are you telling the truth, when you
2 talk to me or when you talk to Ms. Nancy?
3 A When I talk to you.
4 Q Okay. Well, now, which story is true, the one you
5 told her about baby dolls or the one you told me about real
6 babies being killed?
7 A Baby dolls.
8 Q Okay. Then why didn't you tell me that before,
9 Brooke?
10 A I don't know.
11 Q Okay. Well, when you told Ms. Judy that did you tell
12 Ms. Judy it was true?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Well, why did you tell Ms. Juddy a story?
15 A I don't know.
16 Q Huh?
17 A I don't know.
18 Q Okay. When you talked to me a little while ago,
19 Brooke, you told me that, ah, when you went to outerspace
20 you didn't go in a hot air balloon you, went in a spaceship,
21 right?
22 A (Nods head).
23 Q Okay. Why did you tell me that?
24 A I don't know.
25 Q Well, now which story is true, the one you tell Ms.
7774
1 Nancy or the one you tell me?
2 A Ms. Nancy.
3 Q Okay. Well, why didn't you tell me the truth,
4 Brooke?
5 A I don't know.
6 Q When you talked about the x-ray picture before,
7 Brooke, you told me that it was a doctor that gave you
8 that --
9 MR. HART: Objection.
10 MS. LAMB: Objection.
11 MR. HART: Not true.
12 MS. LAMB: He said that; she never said it.
13 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
14 BY MR. SPIVEY:
15 Q Well, Brooke, what did you tell me before when you
16 talked about the x-ray?
17 Do you remember what you told me, Brooke?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Well, can you tell me now what the x-ray was
20 about, what happened?
21 A No.
22 Q Well, now, you just told Ms. Nancy about it a minute
23 ago, didn't you?
24 A (Nods head).
25 Q Okay. Can you tell me what you told Ms. Nancy? It's
7775
1 all right if you can't, Brooke; I just need to know the
2 truth.
3 A No.
4 Q You don't even know what you told Ms. Nancy a minute
5 ago, do you?
6 A (Shakes head).
7 Q If Ms. Nancy hadn't said that you wouldn't have said
8 it either, would you?
9 Brooke, if Ms. Nancy hadn't said that, you wouldn't
10 have said it, would you?
11 A (Shakes head).
12 Q You have to answer out loud.
13 A No.
14 Q Okay.
END OF BROOKE SMALL TESTIMONY
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