WPC`
Courier 10cpi
HP DeskJet Plus
HPDESPLU.PRS
(#€%
Courier 10cpi
HP DeskJet Plus
HPDESPLU.PRS
(#€%
SMITH, LAUREN 8996
9166 Volume XXXVIII
Direct: 8996
Cross: 9014
Redirect: 9153
Recross: 9160
8996
19 BY MS. LAMB:
20 Q Hi, Lauren.
21 A Hi.
22 Q Can you tell us what your whole name?
23 A Lauren Maria Smith.
24 Q Okay. And you go by which of those names?
25 A Lauren.
8997
1 Q And you need to talk up real loud remember, so these
2 ladies and gentlemen sitting here in front of you can hear
3 everything you say, okay?
4 A Okay.
5 Q How old are you Lauren?
6 A Seven.
7 Q When is your birthday?
8 A May 21st.
9 Q So you turned seven on May 21st of this year?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Where do you live?
12 A Edenton.
13 Q Who lives with you in Edenton at your house?
14 A Mommy and daddy and Michael.
15 Q What's your momma's name?
16 A Jean.
7 Q What's your daddy's name?
18 A Gary.
19 Q Is that who is sitting right here behind me?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Do you have any pets at home?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What do you have?
24 A I have a dog and a kitty.
25 Q What's your dog's name?
8998
1 A Chico.
2 Q What's your kitty's name?
3 A Whiskers.
4 Q Do you go to school?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Where do you go to school?
7 A Lawrence Academy.
8 Q What grade are you in at Lawrence Academy?
9 A Second.
10 Q How do you get back and forth to Lawrence Academy
11 everyday?
12 A Ride Ben.
13 Q Okay. And you're in the second grade?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Who is your teacher?
16 A Ms. Upton.
7 Q Do you like the second grade?
18 A Yes.
19 Q What's your favorite subject?
20 A Um, science.
21 Q Science?
22 A (Nods head).
23 Q Do you like to do experiments and make things?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Last year you were in the first grade?
8999
1 A Yes.
2 Q Is that right. Who was your teacher last year?
3 A Ms. Saunders.
4 Q And before that did you go to kindergarten at
5 Lawrence Academy, too?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Who was your kindergarten teacher?
8 A Ms. Daniels.
9 Q Now, before you went to Lawrence Academy did you go
10 to a preschool in Edenton?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What was the name of the preschool?
13 A Little Friends.
14 Q Who was your teacher at Little Friends?
15 A Ms. Mitchener.
16 Q Did you like going to Little Friends?
7 A Yes.
18 Q What kind of things did you like to do when you went
19 to Little Friends?
20 A Um, arts and crafts.
21 Q You like arts and crafts a lot?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Is that one of your favorite things to do, make -- or
24 color things and make things?
25 A Uh huh.
9000
1 Q Now, when you were going to preschool in Edenton, did
2 you also go somewhere else while your mommy and daddy worked
3 during the day?
4 A Yes.
5 Q What was the name of the place you went to when they
6 worked during the day?
7 A Little Rascals.
8 Q Did you go to the new Little Rascals?
9 A No.
10 Q Which one did you go to?
11 A Um, the new one.
12 Q The new one? And you knew there was what we call
13 the old Little Rascals, right?
14 A Yes.
15 Q You didn't go to that one, did you?
16 A No.
7 Q When your mommy told you you were going to start
18 going to the Little Rascals at first were you excited about
19 that?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And did you want her to take you to Little Rascals so
22 you could play with other kids?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, after you started going to Little Rascals for a
25 little while did you still like it?
9001
1 A No.
2 Q What was it that you didn't like about it?
3 A They did bad things to us there.
4 Q Who was your teacher at Little Rascals? Whose room
5 were you in?
6 A Ms. Shelly.
7 Q Did you know Mr. Bob, too?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Was he there at Little Rascals?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Was he there a lot?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Now, you said they did bad things to you; who was one
14 of the people who did bad things to you?
15 A Mr. Bob.
16 Q Can you tell me, Lauren, one bad thing that Mr. Bob
7 did to you that you didn't want him to do?
18 A Um, well he put his penis in my private.
19 Q Now, when you say your private, do you have a name
20 for your private parts of your body?
21 A Yes.
22 Q What do you call your front private part?
23 A Private.
24 Q And what do you call your back private part?
25 A Bottom.
9002
1 Q So Mr. Bob put his penis in your front private, are
2 you talking about your front private?
3 A Yes.
4 Q How, did that feel, Lauren, when Mr. Bob did that to
5 you?
6 A Not good.
7 Q Do you remember where you were in the building when
8 it happened to you?
9 A Sometimes in the room and sometimes upstairs.
10 Q And when you say sometimes in the room are you
11 talking about your room, Ms. Shelly's room?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And, um, do you remember what time of day it would
14 be, whether it would be the morning or lunch time or when
15 you were supposed to have your nap time?
16 A Sometimes when I was supposed to have my nap time and
7 sometimes after mommy -- mommy leaves.
18 Q Are you talking about when your mommy would leave you
19 there in the morning?
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q Now, was there something else that Mr. Bob did to you
22 that you didn't like besides putting his penis in your
23 privates?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Can you tell me something else that he did that you
9003
1 didn't like?
2 A Put a pencil in my private.
3 Q How did that feel when Mr. Bob put a pencil in your
4 private?
5 A Yucky.
6 Q Do you remember where you were when that happened one
7 time?
8 A Upstairs.
9 Q Upstairs at the day care?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did Mr. Bob ever put anything else in your privates
12 besides his penis and a pencil?
13 A A needle.
14 Q A needle?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q Does your mom sew things sometimes?
7 A Yes.
18 Q And when you say a needle are you talking about the
19 kind of needle that your mom might use to sew something
20 sometimes?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you remember what color it was?
23 A Silver.
24 Q How did it feel when he put the needle in your
25 privates?
9004
1 A Not very good.
2 Q Did it make you feel bad?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Do you remember where you were when he put a needle
5 in your privates?
6 A Um, in Ms. Shelly's room.
7 Q And, ah, when you were in Ms. Shelly's room and he
8 was putting a needle in your private was it at nap time or
9 some other time?
10 A Some other time.
11 Q Can you remember when, what time of day?
12 A Um, early in the morning.
13 Q Now, did you get -- did your momma take you to Little
14 Rascals early in the morning?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q And did things ever happen to you right after she
7 first took you early in the morning?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, um, did Mr. Bob ever put his penis anywhere
20 besides in your privates?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Can you tell me where?
23 A In my bottom.
24 Q And was that at the day care when that -- were you at
25 the day care when that happened?
9005
1 A Yes.
2 Q Well, do you remember if you were downstairs in Ms.
3 Shelly's room, upstairs, or somewhere else?
4 A Sometimes downstairs and sometimes upstairs.
5 Q And did he ever put it anywhere else?
6 A In my mouth.
7 Q What did he do when he put it in your mouth?
8 A I don't remember.
9 Q Do you remember whether he ever peed in your mouth?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did he?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What did you do when he did that?
14 A Um, then, um, we spit it out in the sink.
15 Q Now, when different things would happen to you that
16 Mr. Bob did would you have your clothes on or your clothes
7 off?
18 A Off.
19 Q And what about Mr. Bob, do you remember whether he
20 would have his clothes on or his clothes off?
21 A Sometimes off and sometimes on.
22 Q Lauren, do you ever remember going anywhere with Mr.
23 Bob away from Little Rascals?
24 A Yes.
25 Q How would you go with Mr. Bob?
9006
1 A In his truck.
2 Q What color was his truck, do you remember?
3 A No, I don't remember.
4 Q Where would you ride in his truck when you would go
5 places?
6 A Um, in the back.
7 Q Did Mr. Bob -- when you would go get in his truck to
8 go somewhere would he ever tell you where you were going?
9 A No.
10 Q And do you remember a place that you went with him in
11 his truck?
12 A Somewhere downtown.
13 Q Somewhere downtown?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q And when you went to this place downtown did you, um,
16 have to go up some stairs to get to where you were going?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Now, when this would happen, when Mr. Bob
19 would take you in his truck downtown and you would have to
20 walk up some stairs would it be -- what time of day would it
21 be, do you remember?
22 A Close to when, uh, you're supposed to take your nap.
23 Q Okay.
24 A Like in the afternoon.
25 Q Did you ever go early in the morning right after your
9007
1 mommy would drop you off?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q When you would go upstairs at this place downtown
4 would anything ever happen to you there that you didn't
5 like?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What -- what would happen to you that you didn't
8 like?
9 A Um, that's sometimes when he put the, um, needle in
10 my private and the pencil.
11 Q Would anybody else ever be there when Mr. Bob did
12 that?
13 A Sometimes.
14 Q Can you tell me who some of the other people were
15 that were there that you remember?
16 A Ms. Betsy and Ms. Dawn.
7 Q Did you go to this place downtown with Mr. Bob in his
18 truck one time or more than one time?
19 A More.
20 Q Did it scare you?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Lauren, do you ever remember taking any kind of pills
23 at Little Rascals?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Who would give you pills?
9008
1 A Um, Mr. Bob.
2 Q What would he tell you he was giving you a pill for?
3 A Um, I don't remember.
4 Q Um, and would you take a pill sometimes when he would
5 give it to you?
6 A Yes, ma'am.
7 Q How would it make you feel when you took it?
8 A Sleepy.
9 Q What did -- did he have a name for them that he
10 called them?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What was it?
13 A Grown-up pills.
14 Q And what were they supposed to do when you'd take a
15 grown-up pill?
16 A Um, make you sleepy.
7 Q And would you ever go to sleep after you took one of
18 those pills?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did you ever wake up and be somewhere else besides
21 where you were when you took it?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Can you tell me about one time when that happened
24 when you woke up and you were somewhere else?
25 A At, um, the day care.
9009
1 Q Okay. And you took the pill -- where were you when
2 you took it?
3 A Um, in the building downtown upstairs.
4 Q And when you woke up where were you?
5 A In Little Rascals.
6 Q Did you take pills one time or more than one time?
7 A More than one time.
8 Q Did anybody, ah, ever take pictures of you, Lauren,
9 while Mr. Bob was touching you in a bad way?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Do you remember telling your mom about Ms. Betsy
12 taking pictures of what you and Mr. Bob were doing one time?
13 MR. MILLER: Objection.
14 A No.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 BY MS. LAMB:
7 Q Did Mr. Bob ever make spaghetti at Little Rascals?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did you like it?
20 A No.
21 Q Why not?
22 A I don't know.
23 Q Did Mr. Bob ever tell you what was in the spaghetti?
24 A Yes.
25 Q What did he tell you was in it?
9010
1 A Um, poop.
2 Q Poop?
3 A Uh-huh.
4 Q That's what he told you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And do you remember -- ever remember Mr. Bob putting
7 you in any kind of jail or pretend jail?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Where was that?
10 A Upstairs.
11 Q Upstairs where?
12 A In the day care.
13 Q What did it look like when he would do that where you
14 were? What did the jail look like?
15 A Um, I don't remember.
16 Q Who would tell you that they were taking you to the
7 jail?
18 A Mr. Bob.
19 Q And why was he telling you he was going to take you
20 to jail?
21 A To scare us.
22 Q Did it scare you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, Lauren, while you were still going to Little
25 Rascals, while you were still there did you ever -- did you
9011
1 want to tell your momma about what was happening to you
2 there?
3 A Yes.
4 Q But did you ever tell her while you were still going
5 there?
6 A No.
7 Q Why didn't you ever tell your mommy even though you
8 wanted to?
9 A Because Mr. Bob said that he would kill my mommy and
10 my daddy and me if I told.
11 Q Did you believe him when he said that?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And while you were going to Little Rascals did your
14 momma know about the bad things that was happening to you?
15 A No.
16 Q Why didn't she know?
7 A Because she wasn't there.
18 Q Was Mr. Bob nice to your mommy when she'd come pick
19 him up -- pick you up?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Did you ever make things at Little Rascals and take
22 them home?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And why did you think you were doing that?
25 A I think because, um, so that, um, we would have
9012
1 something to go home with so our mommy and daddy would think
2 that we were having fun there.
3 Q And that's what your mommy and daddy thought, wasn't
4 it?
5 A Uh-huh.
6 Q Lauren, does -- does this make you feel bad to have
7 to talk about these things again?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Were you a little nervous about coming here today and
10 having to talk about them again?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Now, your mommy said that you could stop going to
13 Little Rascals sometime, didn't she?
14 A Yes.
15 Q How did you feel about that?
16 A Excited.
7 Q Lauren, do you take, um, dance?
18 A Yes.
19 Q How long have you been taking dance, for a long time?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What kind of dance do you take?
22 A I take ballet, I take tap, and I take jazz.
23 Q Do you have a favorite of one of those?
24 A Jazz.
25 Q Jazz. Who is your dance teacher?
9013
1 A For ballet Ms. Rossman and for tap Ms. Donna.
2 Q Did you play any, um, sports this summer on any
3 teams?
4 A Um, no.
5 Q Okay. Did you ever play T-ball or soccer or
6 anything?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Um, has some of your family been visiting
9 since you were going to have to come to court?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Who's come to see you?
12 A Um, Aunt Janice and Granny.
13 Q Is your Aunt Janice in the courtroom with you today?
14 A Yes.
15 Q What -- what have you and she been doing together
16 since she got here?
7 A Um, projects.
18 Q What -- is she an artist?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So you have been doing some art projects?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Now, Lauren, um, since you've been here in court
23 today, ah, since you got here a little while ago have you
24 seen Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy in here?
25 A No.
9014
1 Q You haven't seen them in here?
2 A I seen Mr. Bob; I haven't seen Ms. Betsy.
3 Q And where is Mr. Bob sitting?
4 A Over there (indicating).
5 Q You don't want to look at him, huh?
6 A (Shakes head).
7 MR. HART: Your Honor, I would ask that the
8 witness -- record reflect that, ah, the witness shook her
9 head, no, at the time she was asked that question.
10 THE COURT: The record will so reflect.
11 BY MS. LAMB:
12 Q Now, from where you are sitting can you see Mr. Bob?
13 A Yes.
14 Q You can see him?
15 A Uh-huh, if I look at him.
16 Q But you don't want to do that?
7 A Uh-huh.
18 BY MS. LAMB: I thank you, Lauren. that's all
19 the questions I have.
20 THE COURT: Have you questions of this witness?
21 MR. MILLER: Yes.
22 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. MILLER:
23 Q Hi, Lauren.
24 A Hi.
25 Q My name is Jeff Miller, and did they tell you that
9015
1 I'd ask you some questions, too?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. You and Ms. Nancy have become good friends,
4 haven't you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q In fact Ms. Nancy has come to your house and visited
7 you a lot, hasn't she?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And you and Ms. Nancy have gone off places together,
10 too, haven't you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q This is the first time you have ever seen me, isn't
13 it?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q So it's going to be a little harder to talk with me
16 than it is Nancy, isn't it?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Now, you went to court school with Ms. Nancy, also,
19 didn't you?
20 A Yes.
21 Q So you've had a good time with Ms. Nancy, huh?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Have you also been anywhere with Mr. H. P.?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q You don't remember that. How about Mr. Hart?
9016
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Okay. Um, do you remember you did play T-ball one
3 summer?
4 A Yes.
5 Q You had a good friend named Ginger who was on another
6 team, didn't you?
7 A I think.
8 Q You think. What position did you play on the T-ball
9 team?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Well, were you -- do you have pitchers on T-ball or
12 do you hit it off of a stand?
13 A Hit off of a stand.
14 Q Did you get to hit the ball?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And run around the bases?
7 A Yes.
18 Q And I take it you had a good time doing that, didn't
19 you?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Did you say you had more fun with Ms. Nancy or more
22 fun playing T-ball?
23 A I don't know.
24 Q It's a hard choice, huh?
25 A Uh-huh.
9017
1 Q Okay. Now, you and Ms. Nancy have talked about you
2 coming up here and you testifying or telling; is that right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Did she tell you what questions she was going to ask
5 you?
6 A A couple.
7 Q Okay. Now, when you went to Little Friends do you
8 remember who your best friends were or who the people were
9 in your class?
10 A Um, Ginger.
11 Q What's Ginger's last name?
12 A Harvey.
13 Q Harvey?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Who else?
16 A Matthew.
17 Q What's Matthew's last name?
18 A Darren.
19 Q Okay. Who else?
20 A Brooke.
21 Q Is that Brooke Small?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. Who else?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Okay. When you were at Little Rascals did they go to
9018
1 Little Rascals with you, too?
2 A Some of them.
3 Q Okay. Which ones?
4 A Um, Brooke.
5 Q Okay. Is she the only one at Little Rascals with
6 you?
7 A I think so.
8 Q Was she in your room at Little Rascals?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And did she go to Little Friends with you when you
11 would go back and forth?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Who would drive you back and forth from Little
14 Rascals to Little Friends?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q You don't. Do you not remember or are you just not
17 thinking about it?
18 A I don't remember.
19 Q Okay. Um, well, did, ah, Brooke's mommy or daddy
20 ever drive you back and forth?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Okay. Did Ms. Betsy ever drive you back and forth?
23 A I think so.
24 Q Okay. And when she drove you back and forth what did
25 she drive you in?
9019
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Okay. Did Mr. Bob drive you back and forth?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Do you know Nancy Smith, Judson's mother, Leslie's
5 mother?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Did Nancy Smith drive you back and forth to Little
8 Friends?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. Um, when you were at Little Rascals, other
11 than Brooke Small, who were some of your other friends in
12 your class?
13 A Ginny.
14 Q Who is Ginny, what's her last name?
15 A Ginny Parrish.
16 Q Okay.
7 A And Will Hollowell.
18 Q Okay.
19 A Um, I don't remember --
20 Q Okay.
21 A -- anymore.
22 Q Was, um, Alex Bean in your class?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Was William Brooks in your class?
25 A Yes.
9020
1 Q Was Kyle Stever in your class?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Okay. Well, do you remember Kyle?
4 A Yes.
5 Q He used to live near you, didn't he?
6 A Uh-huh, he used to be my next-door neighbor.
7 Q He was your next-door neighbor?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. And when he lived next to you, did you get to
10 see him?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Did he play with you and you play with him?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And were you his girlfriend?
15 A No.
16 Q Was he your boyfriend?
7 A No.
18 Q He wanted you to be his girlfriend, though, didn't
19 he?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. And you told him you didn't want to be his
22 girlfriend, didn't you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Do you still live in the same neighborhood
25 where Kyle lived?
9021
1 A No.
2 Q You've moved since then?
3 A Kyle's moved.
4 Q Kyle moved. Okay. So you still live in the same
5 house but Kyle moved from his house; is that right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And do you know what that area is called where
8 you live?
9 A Edenton.
10 Q Okay. And is there a sign on the road as you come
11 into the place where you live at your house?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And it's called Riverton; is that right?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Ah, do any of your other friends live out
16 there near you?
7 A I don't know.
18 Q Okay. Who -- who are your favorite friends to play
19 with out there where you live now?
20 A Um, Annie Baker and Ginger Harvey and Brooke Small.
21 Um, I don't remember any more.
22 Q Okay. Now, Annie went to the day care with you, too,
23 didn't she?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. Now, other than Ms. Nancy who asked you
9022
1 questions, um, you have another friend that you met since
2 you were at the day care, don't you, another lady?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What's her name?
5 A Ms. Judy.
6 Q Okay. And who is Ms. Judy?
7 A Um, I don't know.
8 Q Okay. Um, do you know why you met Ms. Judy?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Why?
11 A To talk.
12 Q Okay. And you talked to Ms. Judy, don't you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Are you still seeing Ms. Judy and talking to her?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. And do you have to go someplace to talk to
7 her?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Where do you go?
20 A Um, I forgot.
21 Q Okay. You get in the car and go someplace else,
22 don't you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. It's not in Edenton, is it?
25 A No.
9023
1 Q Okay. And you have a good time when you go see Ms.
2 Judy?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Get to play games there?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Ah, and when you talk to Ms. Judy; Ms. Judy asks you
7 questions, doesn't she?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Kind of like Ms. Lamb asks you questions, huh?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And you get to tell Ms. Judy answers to things, don't
12 you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Ms. Judy asked you some of the questions just like
15 Ms. Lamb asked you questions here today, didn't she?
16 A Yes.
7 Q And you've been seeing Ms. Judy for a long time,
18 haven't you?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. Ah, now, did you tell Ms. Judy the same things
21 that you told Ms. Nancy today?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. Now, Lauren tell me, when your mommy took you
24 to the day care to Little Rascals in the morning, did you go
25 everyday?
9024
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. And when you went there in the morning, tell
3 me what you did first thing when you got there?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q You don't remember going there at all?
6 A I remember going there.
7 Q Okay.
8 A But I don't remember what we did the very first thing
9 in the morning.
10 Q All right. Was Ms. Shelly there when you went?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. And was she in her room with other children?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do you remember which room she was in as you went
15 into the day care?
16 A No.
7 Q Okay. Did your momma or your daddy take you back to
18 Ms. Shelly's room or did you go back by yourself?
19 A Sometimes they took me back there; sometimes I went
20 back there by myself.
21 Q Okay. And when you went was Ms. Betsy there, also?
22 A I think so.
23 Q Okay. And do you remember the names of any of the
24 other people besides Ms. Shelly, Ms. Betsy, and Mr. Bob who
25 worked there?
9025
1 A Um, Ms. Dawn. Um, I don't remember.
2 Q Okay. Ah, your brother went there for awhile, too,
3 didn't he?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Do you remember his teacher's name?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. Do you remember which room your brother was
8 in?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Which one?
11 A He was, um, next to, um, my room.
12 Q Okay. Did you ever see the babies that were at the
13 day care?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. And do you remember what room they were in?
16 A No.
7 Q Okay. Do you remember the name of the ladies who
18 took care of the babies?
19 A No.
20 Q Do you remember a lady named Ms. Brenda?
21 A No.
22 Q Do you remember a lady named Ms. Betty Ann?
23 A No.
24 Q How about Ms. Cindy?
25 A No.
9026
1 Q Okay. Do you remember a lady named Ms. Robin?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Who was Ms. Robin?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q Okay. Now, when you went to your room in the morning
6 you went in and Ms. Shelly was there, do you remember what
7 you did in your room in the morning?
8 A Um, times we did arts and crafts, sometimes.
9 Q Okay. And do you remember if arts and crafts was the
10 first thing you did when you got there?
11 A Sometimes and sometimes not.
12 Q Okay. Do you remember any of the other things that
13 you did first thing in the morning?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Do you remember how long arts and crafts
16 lasted before you went to lunch? Is that what you did all
7 the way up to lunch time or did you do other things?
18 A We did other things.
19 Q Do you remember what kinds of other things you did?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Did you have books that you could read in Ms.
22 Shelly's room?
23 A I think so.
24 Q Okay. Did Ms. Shelly read you books or stories while
25 you were there?
9027
1 A Yes.
2 Q Did she teach you things while you were there?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Do you remember whether or not she taught you about
5 numbers or anything like that?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. When you did arts and crafts did they have
8 things there for you to do arts and crafts in the morning?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Now, did you have any other teachers besides
11 Ms. Shelly in your room?
12 A Mr. Bob.
13 Q Okay. And when was Mr. Bob a teacher in your room?
14 A When, um, Ms. Shelly was gone like out to lunch or
15 something.
16 Q Okay. And was Ms. Betsy there then?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And was Ms. Robin there then?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And was she gone to lunch, too?
21 A Sometimes.
22 Q Okay. Or was she in her room and you just didn't see
23 her?
24 A I think sometimes she was in her room.
25 Q Okay. When Mr. Bob taught the class did he teach you
9028
1 arts and crafts or those kinds of things or did he just
2 watch you while Ms. Shelly was gone?
3 A He just watched us while -- while Ms. Shelly was
4 gone.
5 Q Okay. Now, you mentioned that you went riding in Mr.
6 Bob's truck?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And you said that you rode downtown; did you ever
9 walk downtown with Ms. Shelly?
10 A No.
11 Q You never went walking to library or any place like
12 that?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Did you ever go to Mitchener Drug Store from the day
15 care?
16 A No.
7 Q Do you know where Mitchener's is?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Well -- I --
20 A Yes, I do.
21 Q Okay. Mitchener's is just at the end of the road
22 from the day care, isn't it?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. And you don't recall ever walking up there?
25 A No.
9029
1 Q Okay. Ah, do you remember ever going to the Green?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Do you know what the Green is?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. And you don't remember walking down there with
6 your class?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Do you know where the library is?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did you ever go to story time at the library?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q All right. The place that you say was downtown where
13 you went in Mr. Bob's truck. Do you remember how long you
14 rode in Mr. Bob's truck before you got there?
15 A No.
16 Q Was it a long way away?
7 A Sort of.
18 Q Okay. When you got there, ah, it was -- it was
19 morning time or nighttime?
20 A Morning time.
21 Q Okay. Did you go at other times besides morning
22 time?
23 A I don't remember.
24 Q Well, did you ever go at nap time?
25 A I think so.
9030
1 Q All right. Tell me what Mr. Bob said when you left
2 -- to get you to leave the day care to go in his truck?
3 A I don't remember what was said.
4 Q Tell me what you said when Mr. Bob asked you to go.
5 A I -- um, I just forgot.
6 Q You just forgot?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Tell me what Ms. Shelly said when in the morning Mr.
9 Bob came to get you to go in the truck.
10 A She said, "Be good for Mr. Bob."
11 Q Okay. Ms. Shelly said, "Be good for Mr. Bob?"
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. What did Ms. Betsy say?
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q What did Ms. Dawn say?
16 A I don't know.
7 Q Did you see Ms. Dawn?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Well, did you wave goodbye to her as you were
20 leaving?
21 A No.
22 Q Did anybody else go with you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Who else went with you?
25 A Ginny Parrish.
9031
1 Q Okay. Who else?
2 A I don't remember. And I don't think anyone else did.
3 Q Excuse me?
4 A I don't think anyone else did. I don't really
5 remember, though.
6 Q Okay. Well, do you remember telling Ms. Judy that
7 all the children went with you sometimes to the building
8 downtown?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Did all the children go with you?
11 A Sometimes.
12 Q All right. And how did you get to the building
13 downtown?
14 A By Mr. Bob's truck.
15 Q Okay. What did his truck look like?
16 A I don't remember.
7 Q Okay. When you rode in the back did you ride in
18 seats?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q What did you sit on?
21 A The, um, floor in the back of the truck.
22 Q In the floor. Okay. So did all of the children sit
23 in the floor of the back of the truck?
24 A Some of them sat in the back of the truck and some of
25 them sat in the front.
9032
1 Q Okay. And where did they all sit in the front?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Okay. Well, was there a big seat up there for the
4 children to sit in?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And how many children sat in the front of the
7 truck?
8 A Five.
9 Q Five. Okay. Do you remember who they were?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. And all five of them sat on the seat in the
12 front; could you see them from the back?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Did you talk to them?
15 A No.
16 Q Did they talk to you?
7 A No.
18 Q Did anybody say anything to anybody?
19 A Sometimes.
20 Q Okay. Well do you remember what they said?
21 A No.
22 Q When you rode in the truck were there any other
23 grown-ups that rode in the truck with you?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Who were they?
9033
1 A Um, Ms. Shelly and Mr. Bob and that's all I can
2 remember.
3 Q Okay. So just Ms. Shelly and Mr. Bob. Where did Ms.
4 Shelly sit?
5 A In the front, too, and sometimes Ms. Dawn sat but not
6 all the time.
7 Q Sometimes Ms. Dawn sat in the front?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. So when Ms. Dawn went was Ms. Shelly with
10 them, too?
11 A Usually.
12 Q Okay. And so did the three grown-ups and the five
13 children sit in the front?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Tell me what the back of the truck looked
16 like?
7 A On the floor there was like some humps like this
18 (indicating).
19 Q Some palms?
20 A Some humps.
21 Q Humps. Okay. What else?
22 A I don't remember.
23 Q Okay. Does your daddy have a truck?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Was it a truck like that?
9034
1 A Kind of.
2 Q Okay. Can you tell me what your daddy's truck looks
3 like?
4 A It's white and in the back it has like some little
5 humps and it has some seats.
6 Q Okay. Did you ever get to ride in a truck or
7 anything like a truck with Ms. Judy?
8 A I don't remember.
9 Q You don't remember. Okay. When you rode with Ms.
10 Dawn and Ms. Shelly and Mr. Bob and all the children could
11 you see out the window in the back?
12 A I don't remember.
13 Q Do you remember if there was a window?
14 A No.
15 Q Could you see out the window in the front?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Do you remember where you were riding to?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Where was Mr. Bob's truck when you would go
20 and get in it?
21 A Like in the backyard.
22 Q Okay. So you and Mr. Bob and Ms. Shelly and Ms. Dawn
23 and all the children would go in the backyard and get in his
24 truck?
25 A Yes.
9035
1 Q All right. Tell me where you would drive to from
2 there.
3 A Downtown to that place.
4 Q Okay. Do you know what name of the place is?
5 A No.
6 Q Well, you've -- let's see. After you started going
7 to see Ms. Judy you took your momma to the place, didn't
8 you?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. And how did you know where to go?
11 A I don't know.
12 Q Did you ever visit anybody that lived at that place
13 before?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Did you know anybody who lived there?
16 A No.
7 Q All right. Well, um, when you got to that place,
18 tell me what was around it?
19 A Like bushes or something.
20 Q Bushes were around it?
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q Okay.
23 A Not all around it but like parts around it.
24 Q Were there other stores or buildings there?
25 A I don't remember.
9036
1 Q Okay. Well, can you tell me what the building looked
2 like?
3 A It was all brick.
4 Q All brick?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Did it have windows?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Where were the windows?
9 A I don't -- I don't remember.
10 Q All right. When you got there where did you park the
11 truck?
12 A In front of the building.
13 Q Okay. Were there other cars parked there?
14 A Yes, but not to, um, go inside.
15 Q Okay. There were other cars parked there but not to
16 go inside?
7 A Yep, like to go, to um, um, like the other stores
18 across the street from it.
19 Q Okay. Well, was it -- you know what the main street
20 is in Edenton, don't you, where the stores are?
21 A No.
22 Q Do you know where the police station is?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. You know the street the police station is on?
25 A No.
9037
1 Q All right. There are stores close to the police
2 station, aren't there?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. And is that where you parked?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And so it was that would have been that main
7 street that's by the police station then, wouldn't it?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Now when you parked there, ah, you said that
10 there were other cars parked there; is that right?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Did you see anybody that you knew?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Okay. And when you and Ms. Dawn and Ms. Shelly and
15 Mr. Bob and all the children would get out of the truck,
16 what did you do?
7 A Go inside the building.
18 Q Okay. How did you get inside the building?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Was the door locked or unlocked?
21 A Unlocked.
22 Q Okay. And when you went to the door were there other
23 people on the street?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. And did you know any of those other people
9038
1 that were on the street?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Okay. Now, tell me when you went to the door what
4 did the door look like?
5 A It was like all wooden.
6 Q Okay. Did it have a window in it?
7 A I don't remember.
8 Q All right. And when you opened the door what did you
9 see?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Okay. Well, what did you do when you went inside?
12 A Um, go up, um, the stairs.
13 Q Okay.
14 A To upstairs.
15 Q So there are some stairs when you open --
16 A Yes.
7 Q -- the door. Okay. What was downstairs in the
18 building?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Was there some kind of office or business downstairs?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Okay. When you went in the door were there other
23 people downstairs?
24 A No.
25 Q Okay. Was there a light on or off?
9039
1 A There was a light off.
2 Q The light was off?
3 A Uh-huh.
4 Q How did you turn the light on?
5 A Um, by a switch.
6 Q Okay. Who turned it on?
7 A Mr. Bob.
8 Q All right. And where did the lights come on
9 downstairs or upstairs?
10 A Upstairs.
11 Q Okay. And were you downstairs when you turned the
12 lights on?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And you went upstairs, tell me what upstairs
15 looked like?
16 A I don't remember.
7 Q Well, were there pictures on the walls?
18 A Yes.
19 Q What were there pictures of?
20 A I don't remember.
21 Q Well, do you -- were there pictures like your aunt
22 does painting or arts and crafts?
23 A I don't remember. I know there were paintings but I
24 don't remember what they were.
25 Q Okay. So there were paintings on the wall?
9040
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. Was there furniture up there?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Well, were there things that you could sit on when
5 you got up there?
6 A Yes, there was some chairs.
7 Q Some chairs. What did the chairs look like?
8 A Like in the bottom they had like little holes punched
9 out, and, um, on the top they were like some sticks and like
10 some -- like balls.
11 Q Okay. Are they chairs like at the restaurant in
12 -- down there near Mitchener's?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Have you seen chairs like that someplace else?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Okay. Ah, was there anything other than chairs up
7 there?
18 A I don't think so.
19 Q Okay. How many rooms were there?
20 A Um, one room.
21 Q One room. Was it a big room or a little room?
22 A A big room.
23 Q Okay. Did it have windows?
24 A What?
25 Q Did it have windows?
9041
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. When you looked out the window what could you
3 see?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q Did you ever look out the window?
6 A I don't think so.
7 Q Okay. Now, when you and Shelly and Dawn and Mr. Bob
8 and all the children were there tell me what you did.
9 A I don't remember.
10 Q Well, do you recall anything about what you did up
11 there?
12 A I don't remember.
13 Q All right. Do you remember how long you stayed
14 there?
15 A I think about ten minutes.
16 Q Ten minutes. Okay. What were all the other children
7 doing?
18 A I don't know.
19 Q What were you doing?
20 A I don't know.
21 Q Okay. Um, well, what did Ms. Shelly do?
22 A I don't remember.
23 Q What did Ms. Dawn do?
24 A I think she, um, talked to Mr. Bob.
25 Q She talked to Mr. Bob?
9042
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q Okay. Do you remember what she talked about?
3 A No.
4 Q Well, did they go someplace else to talk?
5 A No.
6 Q They stayed right in the room with you and all the
7 other children and Ms. Shelly?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. After they talked what did they do?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Okay. Now, you said that somebody put a needle in
12 you?
13 A Uh-huh.
14 Q And it was a sewing needle?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Is that right?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Did that happen up there?
19 A Sometimes.
20 Q Well, did it happen when all the other children were
21 there?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. And did Ms. Shelly put the needle in you?
24 A Sometimes.
25 Q And did Ms. Dawn put the needle in you?
9043
1 A Sometimes.
2 Q And was Ms. Betsy ever up there?
3 A I think so.
4 Q Well, do you remember whether she was or not?
5 A I think she was.
6 Q Okay. Was Ms. Robin ever up there?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. When they put -- can you tell me how they put
9 the needle in you?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Okay. Well, do you know where they got the needle?
12 A No.
13 Q Was it already there or did somebody bring it with
14 them?
15 A It was already up there.
16 Q Okay. And was it someplace special up there where
7 the needle was?
18 A I don't remember.
19 Q Okay. Now, when they put the needle in you what did
20 all the other children say?
21 A They said nothing.
22 Q They didn't say anything?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. What were they doing?
25 A I don't know.
9044
1 Q Okay. Was Ginny Parrish there?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And Ginny didn't say anything to you?
4 A No.
5 Q Did you say anything to her?
6 A No.
7 Q Well, did that needle hurt?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. And did it stick in you?
10 A Not really.
11 Q Okay. Well, tell me how you got a needle stuck in
12 you without it sticking in you?
13 A It didn't really like stick in me; they just like put
14 it up to me.
15 Q Okay. Put it up to you?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. When you say put it up to you, do you mean put
18 it up to you like this or how? Just scared you with it?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. So they didn't put the needle in you or stick
21 you with it; is that right?
22 A I don't quite remember.
23 Q Now, did you ever see any animals up there?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Okay. Did -- you said they used pencils up there,
9045
1 too, that right?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Now, did they bring pencils with them or were
4 they already up there?
5 A They bring pencils with them.
6 Q Okay. What -- what did Ginny Parrish say when they
7 brought out the pencils?
8 A I don't remember.
9 Q Okay. Did Ms. Shelly have a pencil?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did Ms. Dawn have a pencil?
12 A No.
13 Q Did Mr. Bob have a pencil?
14 A Sometimes.
15 Q Okay. Um, was Ms. Betsy up there at any time with a
16 pencil?
7 A I don't remember.
18 Q Okay. Now, did they scare you with the pencils like
19 they did with the needles?
20 A Um, yes.
21 Q Okay. Tell me what they did with the pencils.
22 A I don't remember.
23 Q Well, how did they scare you with the pencils?
24 A They like, um, like the needle, they just like stuck
25 it up to us.
9046
1 Q Okay. And is that all they did?
2 A What?
3 Q Is that all they did?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Now, did you take dance while you were at
6 Little Rascals?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Where did you take dance?
9 A I don't know.
10 Q Do you remember a lady Ms. -- Ms. Stever who taught
11 dance?
12 A Yes.
13 Q That was Kyle's momma, wasn't it?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did you take dance with Ms. Stever when you were at
16 Little Rascals?
7 A Yes.
18 Q And what kind of dance did you take then?
19 A I take -- I took ballet and I took tap.
20 Q Okay. And did you get to be in some of the programs
21 that they had when you took dance?
22 A I don't remember.
23 Q You don't remember any programs that you were in with
24 Ms. Audrey?
25 A No.
9047
1 Q Did you perform in the Nutcracker when she put it on?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. Um, did you have recitals with her for your
4 mommy and daddy and other parents?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Which one do you like best: ballet, tap, or
7 jazz?
8 A Jazz.
9 Q Okay. Why?
10 A Because it's fun.
11 Q Okay. You get to do whatever you want to in jazz
12 dance pretty much, don't you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q When you went to dancing at Ms. Audrey's --
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q -- did you go from the day care sometimes?
7 A Yes.
18 Q And who took you?
19 A Ms. Shelly.
20 Q Okay. And did she walk you to the dance studio or
21 did you drive?
22 A We drove.
23 Q What did you go in?
24 A I can't remember the name of the car.
25 Q Okay. You went in a car?
9048
1 A I think it was something like a station wagon or
2 something.
3 Q Okay. Ah. And do you remember who else went dancing
4 with you?
5 A Um, no. But I know a couple of people did, but I
6 don't remember.
7 Q Okay. Did Ginny Parrish go dancing with you?
8 A Yes. But she wasn't in my class, I don't think.
9 Q Okay. Did the girls go by themselves or did the
10 girls and boys go?
11 A Just the girls went by themselves.
12 Q All right. And when you had to go to dance from
13 Little Rascals; where did you get dressed for dance?
14 A They have like, um, a little place in the back where
15 you can get dressed.
16 Q At the dance studio or at Little Rascals?
7 A At the dance studio.
18 Q All right. Now, was that -- is that the way you got
19 dressed when you went to dance from Little Rascals --
20 A Yes.
21 Q -- you went to the dance studio and dressed there?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. Now, when you were at Little Rascals in Ms.
24 Shelly's room, do you remember at nap time who you slept
25 near or took a nap near?
9049
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Don't remember who was on the mat next to you?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. When it was nap time, what kinds of things did
5 you have to do to get ready for nap time?
6 A Like layout our mats.
7 Q Okay. Did they have your name on them?
8 A I don't remember. I think so.
9 Q Okay. You laid your mats out and then what did you
10 do?
11 A Then, um, we laid down and then we took our nap.
12 Q Okay. Did you like to take a nap?
13 A No, not really.
14 Q Okay. Um, sometimes would you talk to your friends
15 in class at nap time?
16 A No.
7 Q Why not?
18 A Cause they said we couldn't.
19 Q Okay. It was time to go to sleep?
20 A Yes.
21 Q All right. Now, you said that sometimes you went
22 upstairs at Little Rascals?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q Were there times you went upstairs with your friends
25 and nobody knew about it?
9050
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Well, didn't you tell somebody that you snuck
3 upstairs one time?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q You don't remember telling anybody that?
6 A No.
7 Q Tell me what upstairs looked like.
8 A I don't remember. There was lots of furniture.
9 That's the only thing that I can remember.
10 Q Okay. Lots of furniture was upstairs?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Well, do you remember anything other than
13 furniture being up there?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Were there any -- was there anything on the
16 walls up there?
7 A No.
18 Q Okay. Were there windows up there?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And could you see out the windows?
21 A Yes.
22 Q All right. When you looked out the windows what
23 would you see?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q All right. Was upstairs one room or a lot of rooms?
9051
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q When you went upstairs, ah, at Little Rascals, um,
3 who else went up there with you?
4 A Sometimes the whole class and sometimes half of the
5 class.
6 Q Okay. And when you got up there what kinds of things
7 would your class do?
8 A You just like sit there.
9 Q Okay. Well, when you sat there what did you do?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Well, did you play games or were there toys or
12 anything up there?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Ah, was there a T.V. or movies or anything
15 like that up there?
16 A No.
7 Q Do you remember what color the walls were?
18 A I think they were white.
19 Q Okay. And, ah, when you went up there and sat with
20 half your class or all of your class, who else was up there?
21 A Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy and Ms. Shelly and sometimes
22 Ms. Dawn and sometimes Ms. Robin.
23 Q Okay. And was Ms. Robin's class up there, too?
24 A No.
25 Q Okay. Well, where were all of Ms. Robin's children
9052
1 then?
2 A Probably downstairs.
3 Q Okay. Was this in the morning time or at nap time?
4 A Sometimes at nap time and sometimes after nap time.
5 Q Okay. And when you went upstairs with Ms. Dawn and
6 Ms. Robin and Ms. Betsy and Mr. Bob and Ms. Shelly, ah, what
7 did they say or do?
8 A I don't remember.
9 Q Okay. Well, did you play any games or do anything up
10 there?
11 A No.
12 Q How long would you stay up there?
13 A I don't know.
14 Q Would you stay up there a long time?
15 A Well, like five minutes or so.
16 Q Okay. And then when you left up there where did you
7 go?
18 A Downstairs back in Ms. Shelly's room.
19 Q You went back in Ms. Shelly's room?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Where did Ms. Robin go?
22 A I don't know.
23 Q Okay. Well, when you came downstairs did you see
24 anybody else?
25 A Yes.
9053
1 Q Who?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Okay. Where did you see them?
4 A Like, um, in our room, in Ms. Shelly's room.
5 Q In Ms. Shelly's room?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What were they doing in Ms. Shelly's room?
8 A I don't know.
9 Q Were they grown-ups or were they children?
10 A Children.
11 Q Okay. Well, if your whole class was upstairs, ah,
12 which children would you see in Ms. Shelly's room?
13 A Um, I don't remember.
14 Q Okay. Were they children who went to the day care?
15 A Yes.
16 Q So they were children that you knew or had seen
7 before?
18 A Yes.
19 Q But they weren't children that were in your class?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay.
22 A I think --
23 Q Ah.
24 A -- I think they were like getting something or
25 (indicating).
9054
1 Q Okay. Were they older children or younger than you?
2 A Older.
3 Q All right. Did you know Bobby?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. How much older than you were they?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q Were they -- were they great big kids or other kids
8 the same size as you?
9 A They were like ten or something.
10 Q Like ten?
11 A Uh-huh.
12 Q Okay. Um, did you -- you knew Leslie Smith, didn't
13 you?
14 A I think so.
15 Q That's Judson's sister?
16 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Ah, were they as big as Leslie or smaller than
18 Leslie?
19 A Little bit smaller.
20 Q A little bit smaller, okay. Now, when you went
21 upstairs with Mr. Bob or Ms. Betsy at the day care, and Ms.
22 Dawn and Ms. Robin were there?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did they have needles and pencils up there, too?
25 A I think so.
9055
1 Q Okay. Tell me what they did with the needles and the
2 pencils?
3 A I don't know.
4 Q Okay. Well --
5 A They just like left them there or something, like to
6 wait until we go up there again.
7 Q Okay. Well, did they -- when you say they left them
8 up there, did they write things with them or sew with them
9 or do anything like that?
10 A I don't know.
11 Q All right. Well, did you see them use those pencils
12 or needles in any way?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Well, did they do anything at all with the pencils
15 and needles, Lauren?
16 A I don't remember.
7 Q Okay. Now, do you remember telling Ms. Judy that
18 they killed babies at the day care?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. Tell me about that.
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Do you not remember or you just don't want to tell me
23 about it?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Okay. But you remember telling Ms. Judy that, don't
9056
1 you?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Well, was that the truth?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. How did they kill babies?
6 A Like with knives or something.
7 Q Okay. And whose room were they in when they killed
8 babies?
9 A Shelly's.
10 Q And when they killed the babies did the babies bleed?
11 A No.
12 Q Why not?
13 A Because they were only pretend babies.
14 Q Pretend babies?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Well, what kind of pretend babies were they?
7 A They were like paper babies.
18 Q Okay. Well, you told Ms. Judy two stories about
19 babies. One story you told her was that they killed real
20 babies by putting them in hot sauce; do you remember that?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. And the other story that you told was that
23 they buried paper babies in the back of the day care; do you
24 remember that?
25 A Yes.
9057
1 Q Okay. Now, which one are you talking about now?
2 A The one, um, when they, um, went in the backyard and
3 buried the paper babies.
4 Q Okay. And you didn't tell Ms. Judy that they took a
5 knife and stabbed the babies, did you?
6 A I don't remember.
7 Q Okay.
8 A I don't think so.
9 Q All right. Now, where did they bury the pretend
10 babies at the day care, Lauren?
11 A Like under the tree.
12 Q Under what tree, in the front or the back?
13 A In the back.
14 Q All right. Now, do you remember telling Ms. Judy
15 that you and all the children had to watch them bury the
16 babies?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Where were you when you were doing that?
19 A In the backyard watching them.
20 Q All of you were outside?
21 A Sometimes, usually.
22 Q Well, how many times did they do that?
23 A I think like ten or so.
24 Q Ten or so times?
25 A Yeah.
9058
1 Q And who was out there?
2 A Mr. Bob and Ms. Shelly and Ms. Betsy.
3 Q Okay. Anybody else?
4 A I don't remember. I don't think so.
5 Q Okay. And when you say they buried them by the tree,
6 where is the tree located?
7 A I don't remember.
8 Q Well, if you come out -- do you remember what door
9 you went out of?
10 A The back door.
11 Q The back door?
12 A Yeah.
13 Q Okay. Which back door was that?
14 A I don't know.
15 Q All right. Was it a red door?
16 A I don't know.
7 Q Was it a glass door?
18 A I don't remember.
19 Q Okay. When you went out the back door what would you
20 see?
21 A Like some woods or something.
22 Q Okay. And how far away from the back door was it,
23 that the tree was where they buried the babies?
24 A I don't know.
25 Q Okay. Could you see the tree from your room?
9059
1 A Yes.
2 Q From Ms. Shelly's room you could see the tree?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. And, ah, what else could you see besides the
5 tree from Ms. Shelly's room?
6 A The whole backyard.
7 Q Okay. Ah, were there any other people out there when
8 the pretend babies were being buried?
9 A I don't remember.
10 Q Okay. Now, when they buried them, tell me how they
11 buried them?
12 A Like they took the baby and they dug a hole and put
13 the baby in there and then they covered it back up.
14 Q Okay. Tell me what the pretend babies looked like?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Well, when you say you don't remember, do you just
7 not want to tell me?
18 A (Indicating).
19 Q Okay. Now, when they buried the pretend babies did
20 they say anything?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Well, did Betsy say anything?
23 A I think so.
24 Q Okay.
25 A But I don't remember what she said.
9060
1 Q You don't remember what she said. Did she ever bury
2 the babies?
3 A Yes.
4 Q How did she bury them? What did she use?
5 A A shovel.
6 Q Okay.
7 A Just to dig up the, um, hole.
8 Q Where did the shovel come from?
9 A I don't know.
10 Q Well, did you see them get the shovel?
11 A No.
12 Q What did they tell you when they wanted you to watch
13 them bury the pretend babies?
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q Do you remember who else was with you, what other
16 children from your class were with you?
7 A No.
18 Q What did you say when you saw them do that?
19 A Nothing.
20 Q Okay. And when they dug the hole, how many pretend
21 babies did they put in the hole?
22 A One.
23 Q Okay. And you said that they did this about ten
24 times, Lauren?
25 A Yes.
9061
1 Q So is that ten different pretend babies they put in
2 holes?
3 A The same one each time.
4 Q The same one every time?
5 A Yes.
6 Q So they had to go back out and dig it up?
7 A Yes. I think so.
8 Q So if you know it's the same one every time can you
9 tell me what it looks like?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Okay. Well, then how do you know it was the same
12 one?
13 A Because they told us.
14 Q They told you it was the same one?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Well, after they buried the pretend baby a few
7 times; did you say anything to them or did they say anything
18 to you?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Well, did you get kind of bored with it after a few
21 times?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. Did it scare you in any way?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q All right. Well, did anybody say anything to scare
9062
1 you when they buried the pretend baby?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. Do you remember the playground that was at the
4 day care?
5 A I think so.
6 Q Okay. Where was the playground?
7 A I think in the backyard.
8 Q Okay. Could you see the playground from Ms. Shelly's
9 room?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Now, you told Ms. Judy that they killed dogs and cats
12 and birds and rabbits at the day care; do you remember that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Where did they kill the dogs?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Well, did they kill them inside the day care?
7 A I don't know.
18 Q Okay. Well, was it while you were at the day care?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. How did they kill them?
21 A By a knife.
22 Q Okay. And who killed them?
23 A Mr. Bob.
24 Q Was Bob the only one?
25 A Sometimes Ms. Betsy.
9063
1 Q Okay. And do you remember what kind of knife it was?
2 A No.
3 Q Do you know where they got the knife?
4 A No. I think in the kitchen.
5 Q Okay. And when they killed the dogs did they kill
6 them in the kitchen or in Ms. Shelly's room?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Was there a table or anything they killed the
9 dogs on?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Well, what did they do with the dead dogs after they
12 killed them?
13 A I don't know.
14 Q What -- what did they say when they killed the dogs?
15 A They didn't say anything.
16 Q Okay. Now, Lauren, is that a true story?
7 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Now, did the dogs bleed?
19 A No.
20 Q Were they just pretend dogs, too?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Did you tell Ms. Judy that they were pretend
23 dogs?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Well, how about the cats that they killed, where did
9064
1 they kill the cats?
2 A Same place that they killed the dogs.
3 Q Okay. And where was that?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q What did they kill the cats with?
6 A The same thing, a knife.
7 Q Knife. And did you tell Ms. Judy that they were
8 pretend cats or that they were real cats?
9 A I don't remember.
10 Q All right. What did they do with the dead cats?
11 A I don't know.
12 Q Did the cats bleed?
13 A No.
14 Q Is that because they were pretend cats, too?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. What did they say when they killed the cats,
7 the pretend cats?
18 A They say if you have a cat that they would kill your
19 cat.
20 Q Okay. Now, you said that they killed birds, too?
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q Is that right?
23 A Yeah.
24 Q Were they pretend birds or were they real birds?
25 A Pretend.
9065
1 Q Where did they kill the pretend birds?
2 A I don't know.
3 Q All right. And did they use the same knife to kill
4 the pretend birds?
5 A I don't remember. I think it's either a knife or
6 some scissors.
7 Q Some scissors, okay. Well, could you tell that they
8 were pretend cats and dogs and birds?
9 A Yes.
10 Q So they didn't look real?
11 A Yeah -- no.
12 Q Were they paper?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Well, do you know where they got them from?
15 A They made them.
16 Q They made them. Okay. And what did they say when
7 they killed the pretend birds?
18 A I don't remember.
19 Q All right. Now, did you tell Ms. Judy that they were
20 real birds?
21 A I don't know.
22 Q Okay. Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that Mr. Bob
23 killed real rabbits?
24 A No.
25 Q You don't remember telling Ms. Judy that a rabbit
9066
1 family came up and that Mr. Bob got the mommy and the daddy
2 and the baby rabbit?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Do you remember that now?
5 A I do.
6 Q And do you remember telling her that he killed them
7 on a table in the babies' room?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Did that happen?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. And do you remember telling her that the
12 rabbit bled?
13 A Yes, ma'am.
14 Q And that it bled all over the table?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. When did that happen? Was that in the
7 morning, at nap time, after nap, when?
18 A It was after nap time.
19 Q After nap time?
20 A (Nods head).
21 Q And do you remember who else was in the room when
22 this family of bunny rabbits was killed?
23 A No.
24 Q How was the rabbit killed?
25 A By a knife.
9067
1 Q Okay. Do you remember where Ms. Shelly was?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Where was she?
4 A In the room.
5 Q Where the rabbit was being killed?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Where were all the other children?
8 A In there, too.
9 Q Where -- where were the babies that were in the baby
10 room?
11 A I don't know.
12 Q Well, did you see babies in there?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Well, do you remember telling Ms. Judy that
15 the babies were in that room?
16 A No.
7 Q Okay. Ah, was Ms. Betsy in the room?
18 A I don't know. I don't remember.
19 Q Other than Ms. Shelly and Mr. Bob, do you remember
20 any other grown-ups being in the room?
21 A Ms. Dawn.
22 Q Ms. Dawn was in there?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q Okay. Anybody else?
25 A I think Ms. Betsy.
9068
1 Q Okay. What did they say when the rabbit was killed?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Well, what happened to the rabbit blood?
4 A They cleaned it up.
5 Q Okay. Do you remember telling one time about things
6 being killed in Ms. Shelly's room and blood getting on the
7 rug?
8 A No.
9 Q You don't. Okay. Do you remember where the rabbits
10 came from, that Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy had in that babies'
11 room?
12 A No.
13 Q Did you see them before Mr. Bob got them?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Well, what were you told or who told you
16 anything about the rabbits in the baby room?
7 A I don't remember.
18 Q Okay. Well, what did you say when you saw the rabbit
19 killed and bleed on the table in the baby room?
20 A Nothing.
21 Q Well, when that was over what did you do?
22 A Go back into Ms. Shelly's room.
23 Q And then what did you do in Mr. Shelly's room?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Okay. Well, where were the ladies that were taking
9069
1 care of the babies in the baby room?
2 A I think upstairs.
3 Q You think they went upstairs?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did they go upstairs with somebody else?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q Okay. What about the lady who was in the room next
8 door to the babies' room, Ms. Cindy, where was she? She's
9 the one who watched the little toddlers.
10 A I don't re -- I don't know.
11 Q Okay. Now, did you tell your mom and dad about the
12 rabbit being killed?
13 A I think so.
14 Q Okay. And what did they say?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Did you tell them that same day?
7 A No.
18 Q Okay. Did you tell them later on?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did you tell them after you told Ms. Judy?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Now, you said that Mr. Bob peed in your mouth; do you
23 remember that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Where were you when that happened?
9070
1 A Upstairs.
2 Q Who else was up there?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Well, where were all the other children?
5 A Up there.
6 Q Okay. And what did they say when Mr. Bob peed in
7 your mouth?
8 A Nothing.
9 Q Okay. And you remember telling Ms. Judy and some
10 other people that it was yellow, don't you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. And when he peed in your mouth, tell me how he
13 did that.
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q Okay. Well, do you remember where you were standing?
16 A No.
7 Q Were you by a window?
18 A No.
19 Q Were you sitting down or laying down or standing up?
20 A I think I was sitting down.
21 Q Okay. And where -- where was Mr. Bob standing?
22 A I don't know.
23 Q Well, was he standing up or sitting down?
24 A Standing up.
25 Q Okay. And when he peed in your mouth was he standing
9071
1 a way from you or right at you?
2 A Right at me.
3 Q Okay. And when he did that did he -- did he pee on
4 your clothes, too?
5 A A little.
6 Q Okay. And what happened to your clothes after he
7 peed on your clothes?
8 A They washed them.
9 Q They did. Who washed them?
10 A I don't know.
11 Q Well, who did you give them to to get washed?
12 A Ms. Betsy.
13 Q Okay. And so did you tell Ms. Betsy that Mr. Bob had
14 peed on your clothes?
15 A No.
16 Q Well, was she up there when Mr. Bob peed on your
7 clothes?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Who -- what other grown-ups were up there when
20 that happened?
21 A I don't know.
22 Q Okay. What did you say when that happened?
23 A Nothing.
24 Q What did the other children say?
25 A Nothing.
9072
1 Q Did Mr. Bob pee on anybody else while you were up
2 there?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Who?
5 A I don't remember.
6 THE COURT: We'll take a break, fifteen
7 minutes.
8 (Recess).
9 THE COURT: You may continue when ready, Mr.
10 Miller.
11 MR. MILLER: Thank you, Judge.
12 BY MR. MILLER:
13 Q Lauren, did you have a nice break?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Are you all rested up?
16 A Yes.
17 Q You got to go sit back in Ms. Nancy's office?
18 A Yes.
19 Q You got to see Ms. Nancy and Ms. Judy and take it
20 easy for awhile, huh?
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q And your mom and dad got to be with you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q We are going to talk a little bit more, okay?
25 A Okay.
9073
1 Q If you need to stop and take a drink of water or take
2 a deep breath or anything you just let me know and we'll
3 just wait on you, okay?
4 A Okay.
5 Q Okay. Um, you said you go to Lawrence Academy?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Is that right? And you are in the second grade?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And do you know anybody else that goes to Lawrence
10 Academy that used to go to Little Friends or Little Rascals
11 with you?
12 A Um, Annie.
13 Q Annie Baker?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Is she in your class at Lawrence Academy?
16 A Yes. Um, I don't remember anybody else.
17 Q Okay. Do you know Richard Dixon?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Is he out there with you?
20 A No.
21 Q He's not?
22 A (Shakes head).
23 Q Okay. Ah, when you go to Lawrence Academy, ah, you
24 ride a bus to go over there?
25 A Sometimes and sometimes my mommy takes me.
9074
1 Q Okay. Does your momma work someplace?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay.
4 A Except for at home.
5 Q Okay. Well, that's right. She probably works harder
6 there than she does any place else, doesn't she?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And I bet you help her at home a lot, don't you?
9 A Uh-huh.
10 Q Okay. Does your daddy work some place?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Where does he work?
13 A He works at a paper mill.
14 Q That's Weyerhauser; is that right?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And he has been working there a long time since you
17 have been in Edenton, hasn't he?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And was he working there when you were going to
20 Little Friends and Little Rascals?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And sometimes he would take you to Little Rascals in
23 the morning; is that right?
24 A I think so.
25 Q Okay. And he would pick you up in the evening --
9075
1 A Yes.
2 Q -- when it was time to go home; is that right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q All right. Um, and your momma did that, too?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Now, when you were, ah, when you stopped going
7 to Little Rascals where did you go then?
8 A Um, we had, um, a baby-sitter come to my house.
9 Q And who was that?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Okay. Was it a lady or a girl?
12 A It was a girl.
13 Q Okay. And did she take care of just you and your
14 brother Michael or did somebody else stay with you?
15 A Sometimes Kyle came over and, um, she baby-sitted
16 Kyle, too.
17 Q Okay. And were there times that you went over to
18 Kyle's house and stayed?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And this was right after you stopped going to Little
21 Rascals?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. And did you do that for a long time?
24 A Not very -- not a very long time.
25 Q Is that because Kyle moved away?
9076
1 A No. He moved away quite a while after it.
2 Q Okay. Kyle moved away that same year, though, didn't
3 he? He moved away after you stopped going to Little
4 Rascals?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Um, other than that one baby-sitter that took care of
7 you and Michael and Kyle on occasions was there another
8 baby-sitter after that?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. Is that because your momma stopped work and
11 stayed home?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. And so you've been staying with your momma at
14 home when you're not in school and during the summertime
15 ever since you've stopped going to Little Rascals and ever
16 since your baby-sitter left; is that right?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And have you talked to your momma since you stopped
19 going to Little Rascals about Little Rascals?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Um, and have you talked to your dad, also?
22 A Yes, a little.
23 Q Okay. And they've talked to you, haven't they?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And they've asked you some questions about it,
9077
1 haven't they?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And did they usually do that around bedtime?
4 A No. Sometimes.
5 Q Sometimes around bedtime?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Other times they asked you questions during the day?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And they read you stories at times that Ms. Judy gave
10 them?
11 A Not usually.
12 Q Not usually?
13 A Uh-uh. They used to but they don't anymore.
14 Q So they have stopped now?
15 A Yes.
16 Q You can read the stories for yourself now, can't you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q All right. Do you remember any of the stories that
19 your mom or your dad used to read you?
20 A No.
21 Q Do you remember whether they were about cats or
22 rabbits or anything like that?
23 A No.
24 Q Now, when you started going to see Ms. Judy, did you
25 know anybody else who was going to see her?
9078
1 A No, but I do now.
2 Q You do now?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Who else is going to see her?
5 A I forgot.
6 Q Okay. Well, did you ever see any of those other
7 people when you would go to see Ms. Judy?
8 A No.
9 Q How about when you went to the church in Edenton?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Um, when you went to see Ms. Judy she had
12 puppets, didn't she?
13 A Yes.
14 Q They were little hand puppets that she used?
15 A Yes.
16 Q What kind of puppets were they?
17 A I don't remember.
18 Q Okay. You don't remember? Were they animal puppets
19 or people puppets?
20 A People puppets.
21 Q All right. And she had dolls, too, didn't she?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And those dolls have private parts, didn't they?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And Ms. Judy showed you those, didn't she?
9079
1 A Yes.
2 Q And you had seen those before you ever saw Ms.
3 Judy's, hadn't you?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Ms. Brenda had showed you some, hadn't she?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And when you went and talked with Ms. Judy you
8 would tell Ms. Judy the things you remembered about Little
9 Rascals, wouldn't you?
10 A Yes.
11 Q She would ask you questions, wouldn't she?
12 A Yes.
13 Q You liked for her to ask you the questions and you
14 got to give the answers, didn't you?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. And you went to Ms. Judy what, about once a
17 week or once every two weeks?
18 A Like it's like once a month or something.
19 Q Okay. That's what it is now, isn't it?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. But back when you first started going you went
22 more often, didn't you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Um, and you didn't know why you were going to Ms.
25 Judy back then?
9080
1 A I did know.
2 Q Okay. When you went to Ms. Judy's did she give you
3 any kind of candy or anything like that when you got done
4 talking with her?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Some kind of treats after you were done talking?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. When you talked with Ms. Judy at first do you
9 remember telling her that Bob never touched you anywhere
10 else other than with his hand?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q Okay. Did you ever see Bob touch anybody else other
13 than you?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Who else?
16 A Ginny.
17 Q That's Ginny Parrish?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 A Brooke.
21 Q Brooke Small?
22 A Yes. Um, I don't remember anybody else.
23 Q Where were you when that occurred?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Okay. Where was Ms. Shelly?
9081
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Where was Ms. Dawn?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Okay. Was there ever a time when Mr. Bob, ah,
5 touched you in front of your whole class in Shelly's room?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Tell me about that.
8 A I don't remember much.
9 Q Okay. Well, just tell me whatever you remember.
10 A I don't remember anything.
11 Q Okay. Well, do you remember if it was in the middle
12 of Ms. Shelly's room in front of the whole class?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. What did all the other children say?
15 A Nothing.
16 Q What did Ms. Shelly say?
17 A Nothing.
18 Q Ginny, (sic) did you ever go out on a boat while you
19 were at Little Rascals?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Who was on the boat with you?
22 A Sometimes the whole class and sometimes just the
23 girls.
24 Q Okay.
25 A Sometimes just the boys, but I wasn't there with just
9082
1 the boys.
2 Q All right. And when the whole class went on the
3 boat, if the whole class went that would include the boys,
4 wouldn't it?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And who were the boys in your class that went?
7 A Um, I don't remember the boys' names.
8 Q Okay.
9 A Not really.
10 Q Excuse me?
11 A I don't really remember the boys' names.
12 Q Okay. Do you remember the girls' names?
13 A Some of them.
14 Q Okay. Who were they?
15 A Brooke, Ginny Parrish. I don't remember anybody
16 else.
17 Q Okay. Who were the grown-ups that went with you?
18 A Mr. Bob and Ms. Shelly and sometimes Ms. Betsy.
19 Q Okay. And the boat that you when on, can you tell me
20 what it looked like?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Okay. Well, ah, have you gone and looked at boats?
23 A What?
24 Q Have you gone and looked at boats to see if you could
25 find it?
9083
1 A Yes.
2 Q Who did you go with?
3 A Ms. Brenda. And I think, I went with Ms. Judy, I
4 don't remember.
5 Q Okay. So Ms. Brenda and Judy took you around to show
6 you boats?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Did you find the boat?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. When you went on the boat did the boat have a
11 downstairs?
12 A It had like a little cabin.
13 Q Had a little cabin in it?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Did it have -- ah, you know what a sailboat
16 is?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did it have a sail on it?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And when you went on the sailboat did it --
21 did you sail around in it?
22 A Um, no.
23 Q You didn't?
24 A No.
25 Q Well, did you go out in the water in it?
9084
1 A Yes, sometime.
2 Q Okay. Where did you go when you went out in the
3 water in the boat?
4 A Just like right around in there, like right around
5 where the place was.
6 Q Right around where the place was?
7 A Uh-huh, like right around in there.
8 Q Well, was it close to the day care?
9 A I don't remember.
10 Q Do you remember where it was?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. When you and all the children went and Ms.
13 Betsy and you said Ms. Shelly went?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. When all of you went how did you get to the
16 boat; did you walk?
17 A No.
18 Q Okay.
19 A But, um, Mr. Bob's truck.
20 Q In his truck?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Well, where did everybody sit when they rode
23 in his truck?
24 A A couple of people sat up front and a couple of
25 people sat in back.
9085
1 Q Okay. Well there were a lot of children in your
2 class, weren't there?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. What were there about ten or twelve?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q Okay. And when Ms. Shelly and Ms. Betsy and Mr. Bob
7 would go where would they sit?
8 A Up front.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And usually one person sat in back with the children
11 sitting in back.
12 Q Okay. And when you went to get on the boat did you
13 see anybody else that you knew?
14 A No.
15 Q Were there other people there?
16 A No. Just the people from in my class.
17 Q Okay. So just your class and Mr. Bob and Ms. Betsy
18 and Ms. Shelly?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did Ms. Dawn ever go?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Okay. When you would go and go out on the boat would
23 it be, ah, hot weather or cold weather?
24 A Sort of both, like warm; sometimes cool, sometimes
25 warm.
9086
1 Q Okay. Did you see any other boats while you were
2 out?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q What did you do when you went out on the boat?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q Okay. Well, did you go swimming?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Did you go boogie boarding?
9 A No.
10 Q Did you water ski?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Did you go fishing?
13 A No.
14 Q Did you ever see any snakes on the boat?
15 A Puppet snakes.
16 Q Puppet snakes?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Who had puppet snakes?
19 A Mr. Bob.
20 Q He did?
21 A Yes.
22 Q What did they look like?
23 A I don't remember.
24 Q Well, were they already on the boat when you got
25 there?
9087
1 A I think so.
2 Q Okay. What did he do with them?
3 A Scare us.
4 Q Okay. Tell me how he did that.
5 A He said that they were, um, real snakes and that they
6 would hurt us.
7 Q He did?
8 A Yes.
9 Q But you knew they were puppet snakes?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Well, how did you know they were puppet snakes?
12 A Because, um, after, um, he did it he told us that it
13 was, um, a puppet snake.
14 Q Okay. So Mr. Bob told you it was a puppet snake?
15 A Yes.
16 Q You couldn't tell it was a puppet snake by looking at
17 it?
18 A No.
19 Q Well, did he have to put it on his hand?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Well, do you remember what colors they were?
22 A I think, there was some black and like some yellow.
23 Q Okay. Did you see those puppet snakes any place else
24 other than on the boat?
25 A I don't remember.
9088
1 Q Okay. Did Ms. Dawn ever go out on the boat with you?
2 A Um, yes.
3 Q Okay. And when she went out on the boat were Betsy
4 and Shelly with you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did you ever go out on the boat without Mr. Bob and
7 just with Ms. Dawn or Ms. Shelly and Betsy?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And when you would do that, who would drive you to
10 the boat?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q Do you remember what color the boat was?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Was it the same boat every time?
15 A No.
16 Q Okay. Well, one of them then was a sailboat; is that
17 right?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. What was the other boat, was it a sailboat,
20 too?
21 A No.
22 Q What kind of a boat was it?
23 A It was a motorboat.
24 Q A motorboat?
25 A Yes.
9089
1 Q Okay. Did it have a cabin in it?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. What kind of motorboat was it then, do you
4 know?
5 A No.
6 Q Was it a big motorboat or a little motorboat?
7 A It was in between.
8 Q In between?
9 A Yes like --
10 Q Okay.
11 A -- middle size.
12 Q All right. Have you been out looking for that
13 motorboat, too?
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q Well, did Ms. Judy and Ms. Brenda take you around to
16 show you motorboats?
17 A I think so.
18 Q Okay. And did you find the motorboat?
19 A No.
20 Q Did it have a steering wheel on it?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. And when you went out on the motorboat what
23 did you do?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Okay. Well, did you go swimming?
9090
1 A No.
2 Q Did you go boogie boarding?
3 A No.
4 Q And I bet you didn't go water skiing either, did you?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. Well, did you ride around in the motorboat out
7 in the water?
8 A A little bit.
9 Q Okay. Was your class with you?
10 A What?
11 Q Was your class with you?
12 A Half of the class.
13 Q Half of the class?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. So were there some boys and some girls or just
16 girls?
17 A Some boys and some girls.
18 Q Okay. And, ah, when you went out and rode around a
19 little bit was -- were there times that just Ms. Shelly, Ms.
20 Betsy, and Ms. Dawn went?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Who did you go with when you went on the
23 motorboat?
24 A Mr. Bob.
25 Q Was he the only grown-up you went on the motorboat
9091
1 with?
2 A No, sometimes we went with him and sometimes Ms.
3 Shelly and sometimes Ms. Dawn.
4 Q Okay.
5 A Sometimes Ms. Betsy.
6 Q Okay. Were there times Mr. Bob wasn't on the
7 motorboat?
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. And did -- when you went out on the motorboat
10 could you see Edenton?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Do you know where the town docks are at
13 Edenton?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Did you get in a fight with anybody when you
16 went on the boat?
17 A No.
18 Q Did you ever take your clothes off when you were on
19 the boat?
20 A I don't remember.
21 Q Did your brother ever go on the boats with you?
22 A I would imagine he went on the boat, but he never
23 went with me.
24 Q You would imagine that he went, but he was never with
25 you?
9092
1 A No.
2 Q Okay. Well, did you tell Ms. Judy that your brother
3 went on the boat with you?
4 A I don't remember.
5 Q Did you tell Ms. Judy that Mr. Bob pushed your
6 brother in the water and he didn't know how to swim?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Was that the truth?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Well, how did your brother swim then?
11 A I don't know.
12 Q Okay. Now, you mentioned Ms. Betsy or somebody
13 taking pictures; do you remember that?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. And where were you when Ms. Betsy took
16 pictures?
17 A I don't know.
18 Q Well, were you at the day care?
19 A I don't know.
20 Q Okay.
21 A I think so.
22 Q Think so?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Were you in Ms. Shelly's room?
25 A Yes.
9093
1 Q Okay. What kind of camera did Ms. Betsy have?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Okay. Well, your daddy has a movie camera, doesn't
4 he?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Was it a camera like your daddy had?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Does your daddy take movies of you, too?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. I bet you've got a lot of them, don't you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. When Ms. Betsy was taking pictures where were
13 all the children?
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q What were you doing?
16 A I don't know.
17 Q Okay. Um, did you ever play dress up when you were
18 at the day care?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Did Ms. Betsy ever play dress up when she was at the
21 day care?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What did she dress up as?
24 A Um, a witch.
25 Q When did she do that?
9094
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Okay. When she dressed up like a witch what did she
3 do?
4 A Scared us.
5 Q Okay. Tell me about that, how she did that.
6 A She pretended like she was a real witch and she said
7 that she would kill us if we told that way with her magic.
8 Q What kind of magic?
9 A She said she had magic.
10 Q What?
11 A She said she was magic.
12 Q She did?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Where was she when she said that?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Well, was it in Ms. Shelly's room?
17 A I think so.
18 Q Okay. When you said she dressed up like a witch,
19 tell me what she looked like.
20 A She had a black hat and like a black dress, and I
21 don't remember anything else.
22 Q Okay. Well, so it was -- was it that big, black
23 witch's hat like thing?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Like you see at Halloween?
9095
1 A Yes.
2 Q Was it like the witch in the Wizard of Oz?
3 A Sort of.
4 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy about the good fairy
5 in the Wizard of Oz?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. How many times did Ms. Betsy dress up like a
8 witch like that?
9 A I don't know.
10 Q Did she do it a lot?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Did -- what did Ms. Shelly say when Ms. Betsy
13 would dress up like a witch and come into your classroom and
14 scare you?
15 A Nothing.
16 Q Okay. Well, was that in the morning or in the
17 afternoon when she did it?
18 A Sometimes in the morning and sometimes in the
19 afternoon.
20 Q Okay. Did she -- did she color her face with
21 anything?
22 A I don't remember.
23 Q Okay. Did anybody else dress up at the -- at the day
24 care other than Ms. Betsy?
25 A I don't remember.
9096
1 Q Okay. Well, did you see any of the other grown-ups
2 dressed up like a witch?
3 A Ms. Dawn.
4 Q Ms. Dawn did, too?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And what did she do?
7 A Did the same thing that, um, Ms. Betsy did.
8 Q Same thing?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did she do it at different times than Ms. Betsy did?
11 A Yes.
12 Q So they didn't do it together?
13 A No.
14 Q It was one at the time?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Did they ever do it on the same day?
17 A No.
18 Q Okay. And she'd come into Ms. Shelly's classroom
19 like a witch?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What did Ms. Shelly say to her?
22 A Nothing.
23 Q Okay. Do you get to go trick-or-treating on
24 Halloween, Lauren?
25 A Yes.
9097
1 Q And what kinds of things do you dress up as when you
2 go trick-or-treating?
3 A Um, I dress up like, um, different things, like this
4 year I am going to be a witch; last year I was a witch, too.
5 Q Okay. One year did you want to be batgirl or
6 something like that?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Um, did you ever see any policemen at the day
9 care?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Okay. Now, Lauren you said something about, ah, Mr.
12 Bob put you in jail; do you remember that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Where was that?
15 A Upstairs.
16 Q Upstairs where?
17 A In the day care.
18 Q Okay. And you drew a jail for Ms. Judy, didn't you?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And it was a real jail with bars and
21 everything, wasn't it?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. And was that where Mr. Bob put you in?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. And, ah, did -- did he put you in there by
9098
1 yourself or were you in there with a lot of other children?
2 A I was in there with a lot of other children.
3 Q Okay. And, um, was that in a little room or a big
4 room upstairs?
5 A Um, a big room.
6 Q Okay. And so, I guess, the jail was kind of big,
7 too, wasn't it, if it held all of you?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Now, did he lock the door?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q All right. You remember going to the jail one time
12 in Edenton, don't you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And I believe Ms. Brenda or -- took you to the
15 jail, didn't she?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And while you were at the jail did you get to see
18 anybody there?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Who did you see?
21 A The fat man.
22 Q And who was that?
23 A I don't know.
24 Q Who showed him to you?
25 A I forgot.
9099
1 Q Okay. Well, who took you back and showed you where
2 the fat man was?
3 MS. LAMB: Objection. She has never said
4 anybody showed him to her.
5 THE COURT: Overruled. Please answer.
6 A Um, I forgot.
7 BY MR. MILLER:
8 Q Okay. When you saw him where was he, Lauren? Was he
9 in jail?
10 A He was upstairs.
11 Q Okay. Well, I'm talking about when Ms. Brenda took
12 you to the jail?
13 A Oh.
14 Q Do you remember that?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Did you see the fat man there?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And was he in jail there?
19 A Yes.
20 Q All right. Now, let's go back then to Little Rascals
21 upstairs.
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you see the fat man in jail --
24 A No.
25 Q -- upstairs there?
9100
1 A No.
2 Q Okay. Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that there
3 was another man upstairs at the time you were put in jail?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that Bob
6 dressed up like a policeman when he put you in jail
7 upstairs?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Did Bob dress up like a policeman?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Tell me what he looked like.
12 A He looked like a real policeman.
13 Q He did? Did he have a policeman's uniform on?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And did he have a policeman's badge?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. Well, did he -- did he have a uniform like Ms.
18 Brenda wears sometimes?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. What color was it?
21 A Sort of grayish-green.
22 Q Okay. Did he have a policeman's hat?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did he have anything else that a policeman has?
25 A A pretend gun.
9101
1 Q A pretend gun. Okay. And when he dressed up like a
2 policeman; is that when he put you in the jail upstairs?
3 A Yes.
4 Q All right. And do you remember telling Ms. Judy that
5 there was a tall, skinny man named Brownie?
6 A Yes.
7 Q All right. And Ms. Judy asked you if he was a white
8 man or a black man and you said he was a brown man?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. And that his name was Brownie?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And you said that there was another woman upstairs at
13 that time --
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q -- too, who was with Brownie?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Didn't you, a brown lady?
18 A Uh-huh.
19 Q Okay. What was her name?
20 A I don't remember.
21 Q Well, do you remember telling Ms. Judy that her name
22 was Alicia?
23 A No.
24 Q You don't remember that. Other than Bob dressing up
25 as a policeman and Ms. Dawn dressing up as a witch and Ms.
9102
1 Betsy dressing up as a witch, did anybody else dress up at
2 the day care?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Okay. Did any of the children dress up at the day
5 care?
6 A I don't remember.
7 Q Okay. Do you remember dressing up at Halloween at
8 the day care?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. When you were put in jail upstairs at the day
11 care --
12 A Yes.
13 Q -- with the other children. What did you do?
14 A Just like stay in there until they took us out.
15 Q Okay. And was Ms. Shelly up there at any time you
16 were in jail?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Was Ms. Dawn up there anytime you were in jail?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Was Ms. Robin up there when you were in jail?
21 A I don't remember.
22 Q Okay. How about Ms. Brenda or Ms. Betty Ann?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. Um, other than the tall, skinny man who was
25 upstairs that you called or that somebody called Brownie?
9103
1 A Yes.
2 Q Was there anybody else besides those people that you
3 have already told me about up there?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Did you ever dress up like -- in any kind of
6 costume at the day care, Lauren?
7 A I don't remember.
8 Q Well, do you remember telling Ms. Judy whether you
9 did?
10 A No.
11 Q Do you remember at sometime telling, ah, that
12 Brownie's name was John?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Had you ever seen Brownie before?
15 A What?
16 Q Had you ever seen Brownie before or any place other
17 than upstairs?
18 A No.
19 Q At the jail?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Did anybody ever put on a Santa Claus suit
22 upstairs at the jail?
23 A I don't remember.
24 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that the brown man
25 put on a Santa Claus suit?
9104
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. Tell me about that.
3 A I don't remember it.
4 Q You don't remember it?
5 A Uh-uh.
6 Q Well, what did he do when he put on a Santa Claus
7 suit?
8 A Nothing.
9 Q Okay.
10 A He just like, um, showed it to us.
11 Q All right. Do you remember the brown man ever being
12 on a boat?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Did you tell Ms. Judy that the brown man was
15 on a boat?
16 A I don't remember.
17 Q When you were at Ms. Judy's did you get to watch
18 things on T.V. there sometimes?
19 A I don't think so.
20 Q Well, didn't she show you tapes, videotapes, what to
21 do; do you remember that one?
22 A Uh-uh.
23 Q She -- she show you videotapes about how to testify
24 when you came to court?
25 A Yes.
9105
1 Q Okay. And do you remember that before you would go
2 someplace with Ms. Brenda or Mr. Kevin that you would go
3 talk to Ms. Judy first?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Now, when you were at the Little Rascals Day
6 Care, Lauren, um, you told Ms. Judy that Ms. Shelly wouldn't
7 let you close the bathroom door and the boys got to watch
8 you go to the bathroom; do you remember that?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Why wouldn't Ms. Shelly let you close the
11 bathroom door?
12 A I don't know.
13 Q Okay. What did the boys say when you and the other
14 girls were going to the bathroom with the door open?
15 A Nothing.
16 Q What did you say to them?
17 A Nothing.
18 Q Okay. What did Ms. Shelly say?
19 A Nothing.
20 Q Okay. And did the boys go to the bathroom sometimes
21 with the door open?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And when they did that what would you say?
24 A Nothing.
25 Q Okay. What did the other girls in the class say?
9106
1 A Nothing.
2 Q Now, do you remember the bathroom in Ms. Shelly's
3 room?
4 A Yes.
5 Q How many toilets did it have?
6 A Two.
7 Q Two. Did you go sometimes with other girls?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And did you ever go in there with other boys?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. And sometimes the boys would go in there
12 together, wouldn't they?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Did Ms. Shelly go in the bathroom with you?
15 A No.
16 Q Did Mr. Bob go in the bathroom with you?
17 A I don't remember.
18 Q Okay. Now, when you went to Ms. Judy's she had a lot
19 of markers and things for you to play with, didn't she?
20 A Yes.
21 Q You got to color with a bunch of different colored
22 markers, didn't you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q She had the red and green ones?
25 A Yes.
9107
1 Q Brown ones, orange and blacks ones, didn't she?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. And is that something that you did your arts
4 and crafts with?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Now, had you ever seen those markers anywhere
7 before?
8 A No.
9 Q Did they have markers like that at the day care?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Now, did -- did you ever see -- strike that.
12 You said that, um, Mr. Bob made spaghetti at the day care;
13 do you remember what day it was he made spaghetti at the day
14 care?
15 A No.
16 Q Okay. Um, when he made spaghetti did other people
17 come and eat it?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Do you remember Doctor Devine coming and
20 having spaghetti with you sometimes?
21 A No.
22 Q What other people do you remember coming to eat
23 spaghetti?
24 A My whole class.
25 Q Your whole class ate it?
9108
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. And did you ever eat the spaghetti?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. How was it when you ate it?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q Okay. Was it okay, though? You were able to eat it?
7 A Yes.
8 Q All right. Now, when did Mr. Bob say that there was
9 poop in the spaghetti?
10 A After we, um, ate it.
11 Q After you ate it?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. Okay. Um, and what did Ms. Shelly say?
14 A I don't remember.
15 Q All right. Did -- did you ever have to eat poop at
16 the day care?
17 A No.
18 Q Okay. Did anybody try and make you eat poop at the
19 day care?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Who?
22 A Mr. Bob.
23 Q Tell me about it.
24 A I don't remember it.
25 Q You don't remember it?
9109
1 A No.
2 Q Well, how do you know Mr. Bob tried to do it?
3 A What?
4 Q Did somebody tell you about it?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. Well, then tell me how Mr. Bob tried to make
7 you eat poop.
8 A Um, he told me, um, to eat it.
9 Q Okay. Where was it?
10 A I forgot.
11 Q You forgot. Well, was it in Ms. Shelly's room?
12 A No.
13 Q Was it in the kitchen?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. What did Ms. Dawn say when he said that?
16 A I don't remember.
17 Q Okay. Well, did he make other kids eat poop while
18 you were there?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Who?
21 A Um, Ginny Parrish, Brooke Small, Will Hollowell,
22 Richard Dixon. That's all I can remember.
23 Q Okay. So he made everybody eat poop?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Did he make all the children in the class eat poop?
9110
1 A Yes.
2 Q Did they all have to eat it in the kitchen?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. Well, um, what happened when they ate it?
5 A I don't know.
6 Q Okay. Do you want to take a break, Lauren?
7 A No.
8 Q You tired? You okay?
9 A Yes.
10 Q All right. Do you know, um, Ginny Parrish's
11 grandmother?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What's her name?
14 A I forgot.
15 Q Okay. Do you know where she lives?
16 A No.
17 Q Have you ever been to visit her?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Do you remember where you went to visit her?
20 A To her house.
21 Q To Ginny's house or to her grandmother's house?
22 A To her grandmother's house sometimes and her
23 grandmother sometimes would come over to her house.
24 Q Okay. Now, did her grandmother live someplace
25 upstairs or did she live in a house like you lived in?
9111
1 A Um, I think, she lives upstairs.
2 Q Okay. And do you remember where it was; was it
3 someplace downtown?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you know both of Ginny's grandmothers?
6 A Yes.
7 Q They both live in Edenton?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. And do they both live some place upstairs or
10 just one of them?
11 A One of her grandmothers I've never been inside, but
12 the other one I have.
13 Q Okay.
14 A The one I have has been upstairs -- that has an
15 upstairs. But I don't remember the other one.
16 Q Okay. Brooke, (sic) did Ms. Robin ever hurt you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q What did she do to you?
19 A I don't remember. I don't remember really.
20 Q Okay. Well, Lauren, do you remember where you were
21 when Ms. Robin hurt you?
22 A Upstairs.
23 Q Upstairs where?
24 A Upstairs in the day care, and sometimes I was in Ms.
25 Shelly's room.
9112
1 Q Okay. And what is it that Ms. Robin did to hurt you?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Well, did she hit you?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Where did she hit you?
6 A Upstairs in the day care.
7 Q Okay. On what part of your body did she hit you?
8 A I don't remember.
9 Q All right. Did she ever hurt you with anything other
10 than hitting you?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q Okay. Did she ever stick you with anything?
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q Well, do you remember telling Ms. Judy that she stuck
15 some scissors in your privates?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. Well, did Ms. Robin stick scissors in your
18 privates?
19 A She didn't really like stick them in there; she just
20 like um, put them up to it, like them on it.
21 Q Like what?
22 A She like -- she like put it on it.
23 Q Put it on it?
24 A Uh-huh.
25 Q Put scissors on it?
9113
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q Well, how did she do that? Tell me about it.
3 A Well, she took the scissors and like put it on there.
4 Q Okay. Well, did shel put the sharp point on there?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q So she didn't stick the scissors in you?
7 A No, not really in me, but like on me.
8 Q Just put the scissors on you?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Well, and that happened upstairs at the day care?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And sometimes in Ms. Shelly's room?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What did Ms. Shelly say?
15 A Nothing.
16 Q Well, did Ms. Shelly see her when she did it?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And what did all the other children say?
19 A Nothing.
20 Q Well, did all the other children see her when she did
21 that?
22 A Not all of them, a couple.
23 Q Okay. What would Ms. Robin say when she did that?
24 A Nothing.
25 Q Okay. Did Dawn ever do that?
9114
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy about being tied up
3 at the day care?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Tell me about that, Lauren.
6 A I don't really remember it that much.
7 Q You don't?
8 A No.
9 Q Well, who tied you up?
10 A Ms. Shelly.
11 Q Okay. What did she tie you up for?
12 A I don't know.
13 Q Did she tie somebody else up at the same time she was
14 tying you up?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Who else?
17 A I forgot.
18 Q Well, was it a girl or a boy?
19 A A girl.
20 Q Okay. Um, do you remember telling Ms. Judy that they
21 tied you up in a tree?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. Where was the tree they tied you up in?
24 A I don't remember.
25 Q Well, was it at the day care?
9115
1 A I think so.
2 Q Okay. Was it the same tree that they buried the
3 pretend babies under?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And tell me how they did that when they tied you up
6 in a tree?
7 A I don't know.
8 Q Okay. Well, did they tie you way up in the branches?
9 A No, they just like, um, made us stand up like up
10 against this tree and tied us up.
11 Q Tied you up to the tree?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. So they wrapped the rope around the tree and
14 around you?
15 A Yes.
16 Q All right. Where were all the other children when
17 that happened?
18 A I don't know.
19 Q Were they outside playing?
20 A I think so.
21 Q Okay. What did they say?
22 A Nothing because they didn't see it.
23 Q They didn't see it?
24 A No. Because they were outside playing.
25 Q Oh, okay. Well, I thought you got tied up outside
9116
1 with the tree?
2 A Yes, we did.
3 Q Okay. Well, if -- where was the tree then, was it
4 some -- was it in front of the building or in back of the
5 building?
6 A I can't remember.
7 Q Well, why couldn't all the other children see you if
8 they were outside playing?
9 A Well, because they were in the front yard and I was
10 in the backyard.
11 Q I see. And when Ms. Shelly did that who was watching
12 all the children for her?
13 A Ms. Betsy.
14 Q Okay. And did Ms. Shelly say anything when she found
15 you up in the tree?
16 A No.
17 Q Now, after Ms. Shelly tied you up to the tree, what
18 did you do? Or what happened?
19 A I can't remember.
20 Q Well, did you stay tied up to the tree for a long
21 time?
22 A No. She just like untied me and took me back outside
23 with the other kids to play.
24 Q Okay. I thought the other kids were in front.
25 A Yes, They were. But I went in front.
9117
1 Q Right. But I thought you said she took you out back
2 to play with the other children?
3 A I said that they were out front so I was in back.
4 Q Okay. So when she untied you she took you out front
5 to play with the other children?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Was there a playground in front?
8 A I can't remember.
9 Q Lauren, do you know a little girl named Ashley
10 Winslow?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Who is Ashley Winslow?
13 A I don't know.
14 Q Okay. Does she live near you or did she go to the
15 day care with you?
16 A Uh, I know she doesn't live near me, but I can't
17 remember if she went to the day care with me.
18 Q Okay. You told Ms. Judy that Mr. Bob cut a kitty's
19 leg off and put the blood on Ashley Winslow. Where were you
20 when that happened?
21 A I don't know. I don't remember.
22 Q Was it at the day care or some place else?
23 A At the day care.
24 Q Okay. And where did he put the blood on Ashley
25 Winslow?
9118
1 A I don't remember.
2 Q Well, do you remember if it was on her face or her
3 hands?
4 A On her hands.
5 Q On her hands?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And when he did that did he say anything?
8 A No.
9 Q Where were the other children when he did that?
10 A I don't know.
11 Q Well, were they watching?
12 A I think so.
13 Q Okay. What did Ms. Shelly say when he did that?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Lauren, do you remember talking to Ms. Judy about
16 candles at the day care?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Do you remember what you told her?
19 A No.
20 Q Well, do you remember that you told her that you and
21 all the other children sat around in a circle in the hallway
22 at the day care with candles?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And you remember telling her that they were white
25 candles with red ribbons and holly with berries on them
9119
1 little plates?
2 A Yes.
3 Q This was right after Christmas, wasn't it?
4 A I think so.
5 Q Okay. And do you remember who else was there, when
6 you and all the other children sat in the hallway in a
7 circle with the candles?
8 A No.
9 Q Was Mr. Bob there?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Was Ms. Betsy there?
12 A No.
13 Q Was Ms. Dawn there?
14 A I think so.
15 Q Was Ms. Shelly there?
16 A I don't Know.
17 Q Well, if Ms. Shelly wasn't there, do you know where
18 she was?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. Was Ms. Robin there?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Now, was this in the hallway right outside Ms.
23 Shelly's room?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. When -- what were the baby and the toddlers
9120
1 doing while you and all the other children were sitting in a
2 circle with your candles?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q What did Ms. Betty Ann or Ms. Brenda say when you
5 were sitting in the hallway with your candles?
6 A I don't know what.
7 Q Okay. Well, what did you do when you sat with those
8 candles in the hallway, Lauren?
9 A I don't remember. I think we just like sat there.
10 Q Just sat there?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Well, did anybody say anything?
13 A I think so.
14 Q What did they say?
15 A I don't know. I don't remember.
16 Q Other than -- than Ms. Betsy and Ms. Dawn, and do you
17 remember any other grown-ups being there when you were with
18 -- had the candles in the hallway?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Was it dark in the hallway when you had the candles?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Was it nighttime outside?
23 A No.
24 Q Did you do that more than once or did you only do
25 that one time?
9121
1 A We did it -- we only did it that one time.
2 Q Okay. And who -- who was it that told you to get in
3 the circle?
4 A Ms. Shelly.
5 Q Okay. And who gave you the candles?
6 A I don't remember.
7 Q Who lit the candles?
8 A I don't know.
9 Q Was anybody dressed up at that time?
10 A No.
11 Q So everybody just had on their regular clothes?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did the children have to say anything or do anything
14 at that time?
15 A I don't remember.
16 Q Anybody come and stand in the middle of the circle?
17 A No.
18 Q At that time, Lauren?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. Well, do you know why you did that?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. After you did that what did you do?
23 A Um, I don't remember.
24 Q Okay. Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that most of
25 the things that you did at Little Rascals were in the
9122
1 hallway?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. When the bunny was killed that time, Lauren,
4 did it make any noise?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What did it sound like?
7 A It sounded like -- like a squealing noise.
8 Q Well, did you tell Ms. Judy that the bunny didn't
9 make any noise at all?
10 A I don't remember.
11 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that Bob killed
12 birdies on the floor in Shelly's room and got blood on the
13 rug?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. And so those were real birds then; is that
16 right?
17 A Yes.
18 Q All right. What did he kill the real birds with?
19 A I can't remember.
20 Q Well, what happened to the blood that was on the
21 floor?
22 A I can't -- I don't know.
23 Q Okay. Well, did you have a rug in that room, Lauren?
24 A I can't remember.
25 Q Lauren, did anybody ever, ah, start a fire at the day
9123
1 care?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Well, did you ever see a fire at the day care?
4 A I can't remember.
5 Q Did you ever see anybody or anything get burned at
6 the day care?
7 A I can't remember.
8 Q Lauren, does your daddy have a boat?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What kind of boat does he have?
11 A A Boston Whaler.
12 Q Okay. Does it have a steering wheel?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And is that the boat that you go riding on at
15 Arrow Head Beach?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Lauren, did you ever see any -- any real snakes at
18 the day care?
19 A Um, yes.
20 Q Where did you see real snakes?
21 A Outside at the day care.
22 Q Okay. What were -- where were they when you saw
23 them?
24 A I can't remember.
25 Q Well, were they in a cage?
9124
1 A No.
2 Q Um, did somebody have them?
3 A No.
4 Q Do you remember what color they were?
5 A No.
6 Q Was it at the playground?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Ah, and were all the children playing at that time?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Was it in front or in back?
11 A I can't remember.
12 Q What did you do when you saw the snakes?
13 A I can't remember.
14 Q Did anybody get the snakes or kill the snakes?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Who did?
17 A Mr. Bob.
18 Q Okay. And how did he do that?
19 A With a knife.
20 Q Okay. And that was outside?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Did he say anything when he killed the snakes
23 outside?
24 A No.
25 Q Well, did they do anything with the snakes after they
9125
1 killed them?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What did they do with them?
4 A They threw it out.
5 Q Threw it out?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Lauren, did anybody ever take you to your
8 house while you were at the day care?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q You don't remember?
11 A No.
12 Q Did you ever tell Ms. Judy or anybody else that
13 somebody took you to your house?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Are you getting tired?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Do you want to take a little break?
18 A Um, yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 THE COURT: Mr. Sheriff, announce a recess
21 until 9:30 in the morning.
22 (Recessed October 16, 1991).
23 THE COURT: Thank you. Good morning, folks.
24 Please conclude your examination of this
25 witness.
9126
1 MR. MILLER: Thank you, Judge.
2 BY MR. MILLER:
3 Q Good morning, Lauren.
4 A Morning.
5 Q Did you have a nice night?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Good. Were you able to go back to Edenton or did you
8 get to stay in Greenville?
9 A What?
10 Q Did you get to go home or did you get to stay here in
11 a hotel?
12 A I got to stay here in a hotel.
13 Q I bet that was fun, wasn't it?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q Good. Now, we were talking a little bit yesterday
16 and some of the things that we talked about were some of the
17 things that you did, and I understand that you took tennis
18 lessons; is that right?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Who did you take tennis lessons with?
21 A Um, I don't remember.
22 Q Okay. Did one of your friends take tennis lessons
23 with you?
24 A Brooke.
25 Q Brooke did?
9127
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. Anybody else?
3 A I don't remember.
4 Q Okay. And when you say Brooke you mean Brooke Small?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Ah, and are you still taking tennis lessons?
7 A No.
8 Q Are you going to take them again next year?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. Um, you mentioned yesterday when Ms. Nancy was
11 talking with you that your grandmother was here and your
12 Aunt Janet (sic); is that right?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Are they from Maine?
15 A Granny is from Maine and Aunt Janice is from
16 California.
17 Q I see. And you got to visit in Maine a couple times
18 since you stopped going to the day care, haven't you?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And, ah, do you have a granddaddy who lives in
21 Maine?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What do you call him?
24 A Par.
25 Q Par. Okay. And your granddaddy Par has a boat up
9128
1 there, doesn't he?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What kind of boat does he have?
4 A I can't remember.
5 Q Is it a motorboat or a sailboat?
6 A It's a motorboat. A motorboat.
7 Q Is it a big motorboat?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Or a small motorboat?
10 A A big motorboat.
11 Q Okay. Does it have a cabin you can go down in?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. And, um, when you go up there do you get to
14 ride on the motorboat?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Do you get to boogie board and those kinds of
17 things up there?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. What kinds of things do you do on that boat
20 when you go up there?
21 A I go, um, fishing and, um, can't remember.
22 Q Okay.
23 A Anything else.
24 Q Now, you talked to Ms. Judy about Par's motorboat,
25 didn't you?
9129
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q And you told Ms. Judy that your Par said he was going
3 to throw your mommy in the cold water; do you remember that?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Well, did your Par throw your mommy in the cold water
6 up there?
7 A No.
8 Q He was just kidding you, wasn't he?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Now, you told us about some boats that you
11 went on with Ms. Betsy and Mr. Bob and Ms. Dawn and Ms.
12 Shelly sometime; do you remember that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Do you remember, ah, telling Ms. Judy that Ms.
15 Betsy had a drill that -- that when she was on the boat?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Tell me about that?
18 A I don't remember it really.
19 Q Okay. Well, did you tell Ms. Judy that it was a big
20 drill like your daddy has?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Well, can you tell me what kind of drill your daddy
23 has?
24 A I don't know what kind of drill --
25 Q Okay.
9130
1 A -- he has. It's just like a regular drill.
2 Q Does it have an electric cord to it?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Do you plug it in or anything like that?
5 A I think so.
6 Q Okay. And it's not the kind of drill that's on a
7 stand that's fixed somewhere; it's a drill your daddy can
8 carry with him and hold in his hand?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. You also talked to your mommy and daddy and
11 Ms. Judy about a little boy, I think, named R. H.; who is
12 R.H.?
13 A He's, um, a little, um, boy who lives, um, on the
14 block.
15 Q On your block?
16 A Uh-huh.
17 Q What's his last name?
18 A I don't know.
19 Q You don't know his name. You just call him R. H.?
20 A Uh-huh, that's his name.
21 Q Is it R. H. Partin?
22 A I don't know.
23 Q Okay. Has he lived near you for a long time?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Did he go to the day care when you were there?
9131
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q Okay. Was he friends with Kyle, too?
3 A I think so.
4 Q Okay. Now, do you and R. H. play together sometimes?
5 A Sometimes.
6 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that R. H. always
7 wanted to kiss you?
8 A No.
9 Q You don't remember telling her that?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Well, did R. H. always want to kiss you?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And what would you tell him when he tried to do that?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q All right. Now, you told Ms. Judy about, ah, playing
16 piano in Maine; did your grandmother and Par have a piano in
17 Maine?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did you get to play it?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Did you take piano lessons?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. What kind of a piano did they have, Lauren?
24 A I don't know.
25 Q Okay. Well, there are different kinds of pianos, and
9132
1 I don't know if you know which kind it was; is it a great
2 big piano?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. Now, other than R. H. and Kyle did you have
5 any other little friends who wanted to be your boyfriend?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. Well, when you were in Maine did you know
8 somebody named Patrick?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Who was Patrick?
11 A My cousin.
12 Q Okay. And did Patrick want to be your boyfriend?
13 A No.
14 Q Did Patrick ever go to Little Rascals?
15 A No.
16 Q Okay. When you were around Patrick did he ever do
17 anything to you?
18 A No.
19 Q Do you recall one time, ah, him trying to touch your
20 privates?
21 A I can't remember.
22 Q Okay. Now, you talked about yesterday about some
23 pills at the day care; do you remember that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. And who gave you pills?
9133
1 A Mr. Bob.
2 Q Okay. And do you remember where you were when he
3 gave you pills?
4 A Sometimes upstairs and in the day care and sometimes
5 downstairs in Ms. Shelly's room.
6 Q And are those the only places he gave you pills?
7 A And on the boat.
8 Q On the boat?
9 A Uh-huh sometimes.
10 Q Any place else?
11 A I can't remember.
12 Q Okay. Tell me about how he gave you pills.
13 A I can't remember.
14 Q Okay. Well, were the pills in a bottle?
15 A Yes.
16 Q What kind of of bottle?
17 A It was like, um, like a round bottle.
18 Q A round bottle?
19 A Uh-huh.
20 Q Did it have anything written on it? Do you remember?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. Did it look like it had something on it; a
23 label or something with some writing on it?
24 A I can't remember.
25 Q What did Ms. Shelly say when Mr. Bob would give you
9134
1 these pills?
2 A I can't remember.
3 Q What did Mr. Bob say when he would give you the
4 pills?
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Well, did he say anything?
7 A I can't remember.
8 Q Did --
9 A I don't know.
10 Q Okay. Did he give all the kids in the class pills?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And when you went on the boat did he give all the
13 children on the boat pills?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did he take any pills?
16 A No.
17 Q Was Ms. Betsy there when he gave you pills?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Was Ms. Dawn there when he gave you pills?
20 A Sometimes.
21 Q Okay. And was it in the morning time or in the
22 afternoon time when he gave you pills?
23 A The afternoon.
24 Q In the afternoon. Okay. Um, and what would all the
25 children say when they were given pills?
9135
1 A Nothing.
2 Q Okay. And how many pills would you be given?
3 A One.
4 Q One pill. Tell me what the pill looked like.
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Okay. Well, after he gave you pills what did you do?
7 A I can't remember.
8 Q Okay. Well, what did the other children do after he
9 gave them pills?
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Okay. Well, did you get to play outside at the -- at
12 Little Rascals?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Ah, and when would you get to play outside?
15 A Like in the afternoon.
16 Q Okay. When -- when they gave you pills on the boat,
17 um, who else was there?
18 A Sometimes the whole class and sometimes half the
19 class.
20 Q Okay. And when you say the whole class that would be
21 boys and girls, right?
22 A Right.
23 Q And when you say half the class that would be some
24 boys and some girls?
25 A Yes.
9136
1 Q Okay. Do you remember who the boys and girls were
2 when it was half the class?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Now, did you go to Little Friends preschool
5 while you were at Little Rascals?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Did you go three days a week?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. And do you know how many times you went to
10 dance class while you were at Little Rascals?
11 A No.
12 Q Did you go more than one time a week?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 A I think so.
16 Q All right. Now, when you were on the boat and after
17 you were given pills what did you do?
18 A Go to sleep.
19 Q You went to sleep then?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. And so did you sleep the whole time you were
22 on the boat?
23 A No.
24 Q Well, if you were given the pills on the boat and you
25 went to sleep what -- what else did you do?
9137
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q Okay. So were you asleep then the whole time after
3 they gave you the pills? Did you wake up on the boat?
4 A Sometimes.
5 Q Okay. So you would go to sleep on the boat after you
6 took the pills and then you'd wake up on the boat; would it
7 be dark when you'd wake up?
8 A No.
9 Q All right. So it was always daytime; is that right?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. The motorboat that you told me about, was that
12 a motorboat that you could put on a trailer?
13 A I think so.
14 Q Did Mr. Bob pull the motorboat on a trailer?
15 A I can't remember.
16 Q Well, do you remember ever seeing the motorboat on
17 the trailer?
18 A No.
19 Q Was it always in the water when you saw it?
20 A I think so.
21 Q Okay. And did all of your class go on the motorboat?
22 A Sometimes.
23 Q Okay. Now, when you would go to sleep on the
24 motorboat and you would wake up where would you be?
25 A Sometimes in the day care.
9138
1 Q Okay. In which room?
2 A Ms. Shelly's.
3 Q All right. So somebody would have to carry you from
4 the boat while you were asleep back to the day care; is that
5 right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And I take it all the other children were asleep,
8 too, huh?
9 A Yes.
10 Q So they all had to be carried asleep back to the day
11 care?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. Have you been on any boats with anybody other
14 than your daddy and mommy and Par and the boats that you
15 talked about with Mr. Shelly and Ms. Dawn and Ms. Betsy; did
16 you ever go on boat rides with anybody else?
17 A I can't remember.
18 Q Did you ever go on a boat with Ms. Brenda or Mr.
19 Kevin?
20 A I can't remember.
21 Q Okay. Do any of your friends that you live near have
22 boats?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. And what kind of boats do they have?
25 A They had, um, a motorboat.
9139
1 Q Okay. Big motorboat or small motorboat?
2 A Sort of, um, -- sort of small and sort of big.
3 Q Okay. Now, Kyle, when he was here, um, at some point
4 said that you --
5 MS. LAMB: Objection.
6 THE COURT: Sustained.
7 BY MR. MILLER:
8 Q Were you ever put in a well, Lauren?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Well, do you remember ever being with Dan Brooks and
11 Kyle in a well?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. Have you ever seen a well in Edenton?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Have you ever seen a well in any woods
16 anywhere?
17 A No.
18 Q Now, you talked about playing boyfriend and
19 girlfriend; do you remember that?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Well, did you play boyfriend and girlfriend
22 with Kyle?
23 A I can't remember.
24 Q Did you play boyfriend and girlfriend with R. H.?
25 A No.
9140
1 Q Did you play boyfriend and girlfriend with Alex or
2 Will or Richard Dixon?
3 A No.
4 Q Did you play boyfriend and girlfriend with Ms. Betsy?
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Did you play boyfriend and girlfriend with Mr. Bob?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you play boyfriend and girlfriend with Dawn?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Did you play boyfriend and girlfriend with Ms.
11 Shelly?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. Now, you told Ms. Judy that they killed mice
14 at the day care; can you tell me about that?
15 A I can't remember that.
16 Q You don't remember that?
17 A No.
18 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that?
19 A No.
20 Q Well, did you ever see mice at the day care?
21 A I think so.
22 Q Where did you see them?
23 A I can't remember.
24 Q Okay. Well, you said you think you saw them; what
25 makes you think you saw mice at the day care?
9141
1 A I don't know.
2 Q Okay. Now, Lauren, ah, you told Ms. Judy that Ms.
3 Betsy had a special dress at the day care; can you tell me
4 about that?
5 A I don't remember.
6 Q Well, do you remember Ms. Betsy having any kind of
7 special clothes at the day care other than the witch's
8 costume?
9 A No.
10 Q Do you remember her having a red or a pink dress?
11 A No.
12 Q Did you ever see her in any kind of special clothes
13 when you were in the jail upstairs at the day care?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Now, Lauren, you talked to a lady in, ah, a place
16 called Chapel Hill; do you remember that? When you went to
17 the doctor, a lady named Ms. Janet?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Well, do you remember when you went far away
20 to a hospital and went to see the doctor with your mommy and
21 daddy?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. And you got to talk to a lady first and her
24 name was Janet Hadler; do you remember talking to the lady
25 before you saw the doctor?
9142
1 A No.
2 Q Okay. She took some pictures of you; do you remember
3 that?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Now, Lauren do you remember when you went to
6 see Ms. Judy that sometimes you would draw things for her?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Do you remember why you drew things for her?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay. Did she ask you to draw things for her?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. And did she ask you to draw things that you
13 had been talking about?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And you would do that for her, wouldn't you?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. And she'd write things on it, ah, after you
18 would tell her what you drew or why you were drawing things;
19 is that right?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. She also showed you some things, didn't she,
22 while you were there? You got to look at books and other
23 things while you were there; isn't that right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. Um, do you remember what you drew for Ms.
9143
1 Judy?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. Are you still drawing for her?
4 A Yes.
5 MR. MILLER: Judge, may I approach the witness?
6 THE COURT: You may move around as you think
7 necessary.
8 BY MR. MILLER:
9 Q Lauren, I am going to come up and show you some
10 things, okay?
11 A Okay.
12 Q Will that be all right?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 MS. LAMB: Do we have copies of those
16 photographs?
17 MR. HART: If you'll give us copies of those
18 later today.
19 MR. MILLER: I'll be happy to do that.
20 BY MR. MILLER:
21 Q Lauren, let me show you, I've put a label on here and
22 it says Defendant's Exhibit Number 22; do you see that?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q Okay. That's so that that lady right there can write
25 down what it is you are looking at, all right?
9144
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q Now, do you see this drawing?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Its got your name on it, doesn't it?
5 A Yes.
6 Q You made that a long time ago, didn't you?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q You are a better drawer now, aren't you?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. And this is a drawing that you did for Ms.
11 Judy, isn't it?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. And it's a picture and it's got some words
14 written by the pictures of people, doesn't it?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q Okay. And did Ms. Judy write those things for you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Um, but you drew everything that's on there,
19 didn't you?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Now, I am going to show you some more
22 pictures, okay. These have Defendant's Exhibit Number 19 on
23 them.
24 A Uh-huh.
25 Q Okay. And I want you to look at it. First of all,
9145
1 look at page number 1?
2 A Uh-huh.
3 Q Have you ever seen that before?
4 A I can't remember.
5 Q Okay. Do you think somebody has shown you that
6 before?
7 A I can't remember.
8 Q Okay. Let me show you the next page, page number 2;
9 have you ever seen that before?
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Okay. Let me show you page number 3, have you ever
12 seen that one before?
13 A I don't know.
14 Q Okay. Let you show you page number 4; have you seen
15 that one?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay.
18 A I don't think so.
19 Q Okay. And page number 5?
20 A I can't remember.
21 Q Okay. How about page number 6?
22 A I think.
23 Q You think you have seen that one before?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. Where have you seen that one?
9146
1 A I don't know.
2 Q Okay. How about page number 7?
3 A I can't remember.
4 Q All right. Look at page number 8?
5 A I don't remember seeing that.
6 Q Okay. To page number 9?
7 A I think.
8 Q Okay. Where do you think you have seen that?
9 A I can't remember.
10 Q Okay. Now, page number 10?
11 A I can't remember. How many pages are there?
12 Q There are a bunch of them.
13 A I don't remember.
14 Q That's number 11; you can't remember that one either?
15 A Huh uh-uh.
16 Q How about number l2?
17 A I think, but I don't remember.
18 Q You think you have seen that, but you don't know
19 where?
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q Okay. Number 13?
22 A I can't remember.
23 Q Okay. Number 14?
24 A Um, can't remember.
25 Q Number 15?
9147
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q All right. Number 16?
3 A I can't remember.
4 Q Number 17?
5 A I think.
6 Q You think you have seen that. Do you know where you
7 have seen it?
8 A (Shakes head).
9 Q Okay. And that's the same one, you told me about
10 before. Number 18, have you seen that one before?
11 A I think so.
12 Q Okay. Do you know where you've seen that one? I'm
13 sorry?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Now, I am going to show you three pictures,
16 okay? And I am just going to ask you to look at them, and
17 they are not labeled yet. I am going to put number 23 on
18 this one, okay?
19 A Uh-huh.
20 Q I am going to put 24 on this one?
21 A Okay.
22 Q And I am going to put 25 on this one. Have you ever
23 seen that person before?
24 A I don't think so.
25 Q Okay. Thank you. Now, Lauren, yesterday, um, you
9148
1 told us about pins and needles and scissors and things. And
2 you told Ms. Nancy when she asked you some questions about
3 some things, and I am going to ask you some of those things
4 again, okay?
5 A Okay.
6 Q Now, you said that Mr. Bob put his penis in your
7 mouth; do you remember that?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Tell me where that happened.
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Well, um, you remembered yesterday. Can you -- was
12 it at the day care?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Where were you at the day care?
15 A I think upstairs.
16 Q Upstairs. Who was up there with you?
17 A I can't remember.
18 Q Okay. Do you remember when it was? In the daytime
19 when you were there?
20 A I think afternoon.
21 Q In the afternoon?
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q Okay. Were all the other children with you?
24 A Sometimes.
25 Q Sometimes. Do you remember who else was with you?
9149
1 A Sometimes Ms. Shelly.
2 Q Okay. Was Ms. Betsy ever there?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Was Ms. Dawn there?
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Was Ms. Robin there?
7 A I think so.
8 Q Okay. And tell me what Mr. Bob would say when he did
9 that?
10 A I can't remember.
11 Q Tell me what you would say.
12 A Nothing.
13 Q Okay. Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that it
14 happened in Ms. Shelly's room?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy that you didn't let
17 Mr. Bob put his penis in your mouth and you ran away? Ran
18 around the room and he couldn't catch you?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q You don't remember that. Do you remember telling Ms.
21 Hadler in Chapel Hill that he didn't do that?
22 MS. LAMB: Objection. She said she didn't
23 remember talking to that woman.
24 THE COURT: Overruled. Please proceed.
25 Please answer the question.
9150
1 BY MR. MILLER:
2 Q I'll ask you a different one. Lauren, do you
3 remember telling a lady in Chapel Hill where you went to see
4 the doctor that Mr. Bob didn't do that?
5 A No. I can't remember.
6 Q All right. Now, tell me about the time that Mr. Bob
7 put his penis in your bottom?
8 A I can't remember that.
9 Q Well, don't you remember anything about it?
10 A All I remember is that he put his penis in, um, my
11 bottom. That's all I remember.
12 Q In your bottom. Now, your bottom is your hiney,
13 isn't it?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. And is that all he did?
16 A I can't remember.
17 Q Well, when he put his penis in your bottom did he put
18 it inside your bottom or outside your bottom like the
19 scissors and the needle?
20 A Outside.
21 Q Outside, okay. Now, how many times did he do that,
22 Lauren?
23 A I think like five times.
24 Q Five times?
25 A Uh-huh.
9151
1 Q Okay. And was that in Ms. Shelly's room?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Was it upstairs?
4 A Sometimes.
5 Q Okay. And you said yesterday when Ms. Nancy asked
6 you that Mr. Bob put his penis in your front private?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Tell me about that.
9 A I don't remember it.
10 Q Well, did that happen in Ms. Shelly's room?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Did it happen upstairs?
13 A Sometimes.
14 Q Okay. How many times did he do that?
15 A I can't remember.
16 Q Okay. Now, did he put his penis inside you or
17 outside you like the needles, the scissors and the pens?
18 A Outside.
19 Q Okay. Now, when he did that, was Ms. Shelly there?
20 A Sometimes.
21 Q What did all the other children say?
22 A Nothing.
23 Q Were they watching?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. And what did Ms. Shelly do?
9152
1 A I can't remember.
2 Q Okay. Now, do you remember telling Ms. Judy about
3 some markers at the day care?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Well, did anybody ever put markers up to you
6 at the day care?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Who?
9 A Mr. Bob.
10 Q I see. Is he the only one who did that?
11 A Sometimes Ms. Betsy and sometimes Ms. Shelly.
12 Q Okay. Are they the only ones who did it?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Nobody else did it?
15 A I -- I don't think so.
16 Q Okay. And when you say markers, are those the same
17 kinds of markers that Ms. Judy had?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did anybody ever put hot sauce on you?
20 A I don't remember.
21 Q Do you remember telling Ms. Judy anything about hot
22 sauce?
23 A No.
24 Q What happened with the markers, Lauren?
25 A I don't remember.
9153
1 MR. MILLER: Thank you very much, Lauren.
2 THE COURT: Have you other questions, Mrs.
3 Lamb?
4 MS. LAMB: Yes.
5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. LAMB:
6 Q Hi, Lauren.
7 A Hi.
8 Q We're almost finished.
9 A Good.
10 Q Okay. Lauren, you were just talking about the
11 markers. And you say they were like the markers that Ms.
12 Judy had at her office?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Are you talking about the kind you can color with and
15 draw things with?
16 A Yes.
17 Q That are all kinds of different colors?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did Mr. Bob ever put the marker in your private?
20 A Sort of.
21 Q Did it go in a little bit?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And, um, they were asking you and you've talked to us
24 about the place downtown, where you rode in Mr. Bob's truck
25 to; you remember talking about that a little bit?
9154
1 A Yes.
2 Q And you said that sometimes you and Ginny Parrish
3 went with Mr. Bob; is that right?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And you said sometimes all the children went; is that
6 right?
7 A Yes.
8 Q So did you go to this place one time or more than one
9 time?
10 A A little bit more than one time.
11 Q Okay. And, ah, so was it different children that
12 went different times?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Mr. Bob -- did Mr. Bob always go?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And you were asked about what happened there; do you
17 remember us talking about what happened there? Some of the
18 things that happened when you went to the place downtown?
19 A Yes.
20 Q That you didn't like. Did Mr. Bob ever put a needle
21 inside your private downtown at this place?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And did it go inside a little bit in your private?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And when it when inside your private did you feel it
9155
1 stick you at all?
2 A A little.
3 Q Okay. It hurt some, but not too bad?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And when Mr. Bob put his penis like you said he did
6 yesterday in your front private, did it go inside your
7 private the same way like the needle did?
8 A Yes.
9 Q A little bit?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Now, you were talking to us -- is that the same thing
12 that happened with the scissors, too, that you talked about
13 being put to -- in your private --
14 A Yes.
15 Q -- part. Now, you told us yesterday about -- and
16 today about having to go upstairs at Little Rascals
17 sometimes?
18 A Uh-huh.
19 Q Did you go up there because you wanted to go?
20 A No.
21 Q Who made you go upstairs when you didn't want to go?
22 A Mr. Bob.
23 Q And did the same children always go with you or did
24 different children go at different times?
25 A Different children went at different times.
9156
1 Q Did you go upstairs just one time or did you go more
2 than one time?
3 A More than one time.
4 Q And you said yesterday that when you went upstairs
5 you didn't play games, right?
6 A No.
7 Q And you didn't watch television or movies?
8 A (Shakes head).
9 Q And you didn't play with toys, right?
10 A Right.
11 Q Did you do anything fun upstairs?
12 A No.
13 Q And Mr. Bob put his private in your private upstairs?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did he put his private in your mouth upstairs?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Did he put his finger in your private upstairs?
18 A Sometimes.
19 Q Did he ever put a pencil or a needle in your private
20 upstairs?
21 A Sometimes.
22 Q Did you ever see any of these things happen to your
23 friend Ginny Parrish upstairs?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Can you remember which one you saw happen to her one
9157
1 time?
2 A All of them.
3 Q All of those things that you just said happened to
4 you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And who did those things to her?
7 A Mr. Bob.
8 Q Now, they were talking to you about going on a boat
9 and you said you had been on a boat with Mr. Bob sometimes;
10 is that right?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And they asked you if you went swimming and you went
13 boogie boarding and you went water skiing when you went on
14 the boat with Mr. Bob and you said you didn't do any of
15 those things; is that right?
16 A Right.
17 Q Did you do anything fun when you went on a boat with
18 Mr. Bob?
19 A No.
20 Q Did you do any of the things that you do when you go
21 with your Granddaddy Par on a boat up in Maine?
22 A No, except for just like riding around.
23 Q Okay. And did Mr. Bob ever put his private in your
24 private on the boat?
25 A Yes, sometimes.
9158
1 Q Did he ever put his finger in your private on the
2 boat?
3 A Sometimes.
4 Q Did he ever put his penis in your mouth on the boat?
5 A I can't remember.
6 Q Okay. Now, you were telling us about some of your
7 friends that you have now that you went to Little Rascals
8 with back then and they are still your friends now; remember
9 talking about some of those folks, Annie Baker?
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q And Ginny Parrish?
12 A Brooke Small.
13 Q And Brooke Small. Now, Lauren, do you and your
14 friends that you talked about that went to Little Rascals
15 with you ever talk about the bad things that happened to all
16 of you at Little Rascals?
17 A No.
18 Q And why don't you talk about that kind of stuff with
19 your friends?
20 A Because we don't want to.
21 Q Are you -- when you talk about how some of the things
22 you can't remember, are these things that you want to
23 remember and tell people, Lauren?
24 A No.
25 Q They're things that you would like to forget, aren't
9159
1 they?
2 A Uh-huh.
3 Q And you said yesterday that what would happen to you
4 if you told was that -- is that Mr. Bob said he would kill
5 your mommy and your daddy and your cat, and you believed him
6 then, didn't you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Do you believe him now?
9 A No.
10 Q Why not? What -- what has he done? You believed him
11 then, but you don't believe him now?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. Do you think he has tricked you?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Has he lied to you?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And, um, you talking about taking those pills that
18 made you sleepy; do you remember talking about that?
19 A Uh-huh.
20 Q And you would say you would go to sleep sometimes and
21 then you would wake up, right?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you ever wake up and not have any clothes on?
24 A Yes, sometimes.
25 MS. LAMB: I thank you, Lauren.
9160
1 That's it for me.
2 THE COURT: Any other questions, Mr. Miller?
3 MR. MILLER: Yes, sir, Judge.
4 RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. MILLER:
5 Q Lauren, I get to ask you some more questions, too,
6 now, okay?
7 A Okay.
8 Q Tell me about the time you woke up with no clothes
9 on.
10 A We just like went to sleep and woke up in the day
11 care without no clothes on.
12 Q Okay. So were you carried into the day care with no
13 clothes on?
14 MS. LAMB: Objection. She said she was asleep
15 and when she woke up she didn't have any clothes on.
16 THE COURT: Overruled.
17 Please answer his question.
18 A I can't remember.
19 BY MR. MILLER:
20 Q Okay. Well, where were your clothes?
21 A I don't know.
22 Q Well, did you find your clothes?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Where were they?
25 A Ms. Betsy had them.
9161
1 Q She did. Where did she have them?
2 A In her hand.
3 Q So Ms. Betsy was standing there with your clothes in
4 her hand?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Well, what was she doing with them?
7 A Nothing, just like holding them.
8 Q Okay. Well, um, did you tell your mommy and daddy
9 about it?
10 A I think so.
11 Q Okay. Did you tell them that day?
12 A What?
13 Q Did you tell them then that Ms. Betsy had your
14 clothes in her hands and you woke up naked?
15 A I can't remember.
16 Q All right. Were you in Ms. Shelly's room when you
17 woke up with no clothes on?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Where had you been?
20 A What?
21 Q Where had you been?
22 A Sometimes on the boat, and sometimes upstairs.
23 Q Oh, so you woke up with no clothes on sometimes after
24 being upstairs and sometimes after being on the boat?
25 A Yes.
9162
1 Q Okay. Did all the other children have no clothes on,
2 too?
3 A Sometimes.
4 Q Okay. And what did you say to them or what did they
5 say to you when you woke up with no clothes on?
6 A Nothing.
7 Q What did Ms. Betsy say?
8 A Nothing.
9 Q What did Ms. Shelly say?
10 A Nothing.
11 Q Okay. Now, have you ever told Ms. Judy that Mr. Bob
12 put markers in you?
13 A I think so.
14 Q Well, uh, so Ms. Judy would have that then in her
15 notes, wouldn't she?
16 A Yes.
17 Q All right. And do you know the difference between a
18 pencil and a pen?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And scissors and a marker, don't you?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Now, you said that the markers sort of went in
23 a little, what do you mean?
24 A I don't know.
25 Q Well, tell me how that happened.
9163
1 A He just like took a marker and just like put it up
2 real close.
3 Q Put it up real close?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did it touch you or just come up real close to you?
6 A Touched me.
7 Q Okay. Where did it touch you?
8 A I can't remember.
9 Q Okay. Um, you say that you saw all of these things
10 happen to Ginny; where did you see that?
11 A Sometimes upstairs and sometimes in Ms. Shelly's
12 room.
13 Q Okay. Any place else?
14 A Sometimes in Ms. Betsy's room.
15 Q Okay. Where was Ms. Betsy's room?
16 A I can't remember.
17 Q Okay. Was that a room at the day care?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Now, you told me that the needles and the
20 pencils and the scissors were just kind of held up to you?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you remember that?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Tell me about that; how were they held up to
25 you?
9164
1 A It was just like the marker; it was just like, um, --
2 they just like took it and held it up.
3 Q Okay. Did they hold it up close to you or did it
4 touch you?
5 A Touched --
6 Q Okay.
7 A -- me.
8 Q When -- where did it touch you?
9 A I don't remember.
10 Q Okay. Now, you said that you felt something stick a
11 little; what was it you felt stick a little?
12 A The point of it.
13 Q The point of what?
14 A I can't remember.
15 Q Well, tell me about the time that you felt it stick
16 you a little.
17 A I can't remember.
18 Q Well, where were you when it stuck you?
19 A Upstairs and sometimes Ms. Shelly's room.
20 Q Okay. And where did it stick you?
21 A I can't remember.
22 Q Lauren, you really don't know whether it went inside
23 of you a little bit or not, do you?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Okay. Now, you talked to Ms. Lamb about some
9165
1 scissors, also?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Were the scissors just held up to you also?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Who held the scissors up to you?
6 A Mr. Bob, but sometimes Ms. Shelly and sometimes Ms.
7 Betsy.
8 Q Okay. Anybody else?
9 A I think Ms. Dawn.
10 Q Okay. Anybody else?
11 A I can't remember. I don't think anyone else.
12 Q Okay. And did the scissors go inside you?
13 A Sort of.
14 Q Okay. Well, tell me what you mean by sort of?
15 A Okay. It just like got close.
16 Q Just got close to you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. So it didn't stick you?
19 A (Shakes head).
20 Q Now, did Mr. Bob's penis just get close to you like
21 the scissors and the pins and the needles?
22 A No.
23 Q Okay. Well, tell me how that was different?
24 A It was, um, in.
25 Q It was in. Okay.
9166
1 A It went in me.
2 Q Well, tell me about that, okay.
3 A I don't remember it.
4 Q Well, tell me how it felt?
5 A It didn't feel good.
6 Q Okay. Well, did it just touch you or did it go all
7 the way inside of you?
8 A It just touched me.
9 Q It just touched you?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Well, then did it go inside of you?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. When it just touched you, do you know where it
14 just touched you?
15 A I forgot.
16 Q Who else was there when that happened, Lauren?
17 A I can't remember.
END OF LAUREN SMITH TESTIMONY
(
geocities.com/jgharris7)