Renee Brant from Gerald Amirault's trial
Questioning by Larry Hardoon (Prosecutor):
Direct examination: 29-112
A: There are some other defenses that a child might interject.
Q: And would you describe some of them for the jury, please?
A: One example might be wishful thinking, that, for example, if a child
had been abused, they might wish that, in fact they'd been rescued from it,
that someone had appeared to stop the abuse. So it is a
kind of denial; in fact, they were abused and very often they were not
rescued, but because they wished that they'd been rescued, they might have
said that someone they knew came and stopped the abuse.
.....
Q: And with respect to thinking about someone rescuing them,
as you mentioned, can you give us some examples from your experience of things
that a child might say that would be illustrative of that?
Ms. Balliro: Objection
Court: Overruled.
A: Well, I think it could depend on who, you know, they say would be the
rescuer. They might say a policeman rescued them or they might say a parent
rescued them; those would be two kinds of examples.
... 29-113
A: The might use the mechanism of substitution or displacement. Example
of that would be that a child would acknowledge that some abuse happened,
but they would say that it happened to some else; it didn't happen to them.
They would avoid saying that it happened to them; they'd point to someone else.
Q: And the someone else they might point to , who might that be, in your experience?
A: Could be another child; that would be very common.
Q: All right. Any other psychological defense mechanisms that, in your
experience a child might interject in the process of disclosure of sexual
abuse?
A: Well, I think that the mechanism of substitution or displacement might
involve them accusing someone other than the person who actually abused them.
They might say it was another adult instead of the abuser.
...
Redirect examination:
page 30-134
Q: And with respect to the specific trauma symptoms of sexualized
behavior and inappropriate sexual knowledge, can you tell us whether or
not, from your experience and training, is there any other source for
those specific symptoms, any other source of trauma for those specific symptoms
beyond sexual abuse that have been recognized in the profession?
A: Not that I am aware of.
.....
page 30-131
Q:Well, in your opinion, Dr. brant, can the reactions of an interviewer
cause a child to disclose sexual abuse having happened to them in the
absence of that child actually having the experience?
Mr. Mondano: Objection
....
The Court: I'm going to overrrule and permit it. Go ahead
A: I think under usual circumstances, a child would be very reluctant to
acknowledge that they'd had a sexual experience when they hadn't, and I could
image that very extreme reactions on the part of a listener could make that
happen; I would think it would be very rare.
Q: Have you ever experience it in your practice, in terms of the
reactions from a listener?
Mr. Mondano: Objection
Court: I'm going to sustain.
Q: Well, you describe the reactions as being very extreme, what are you
referring to?
A:A parent who's psychotic would be one kind of example. I can imagine a parent
in a divorce or custody suit who is extremely vengeful toward the other
parent. I guess that's what I mean by more extreme reaction on the part of
a listener.
Q: And in terms of extreme reactions, when you were asked on cross examination
about whether or not anxiety in the home or turmoil in the home was likely to
cause behavioral symptoms in a child-- or I should say non-specific behavioral
symptoms in a child, what degree of turmoil would you expect to exist in the
home before it might begin to cause that or exacerbate it?
A: I think it would have to be enough turmoil to, in some way, significantly
interfere with the care that child received or with the care that child
received or with the relationship that they had with family members.
I mean, if a parent got angry and then got over being angry and continue
taking good care of a child, I don't that that(sic), in and of
itself, would lead to symptoms.But if a parent became, you know, depressed
enough that they were hospitalized, and they might develop some of the non-
specific symptoms.
From Cheryl and Vi's trial (June 1987):
Thursday June 4, 1987
page. 4-171
...What I have frequently seen, however, is that often there will be a marked
increase in symptoms around the time that a child begins to disclose the sexual
abuse and there is less repression of this material in their mind.
So that it is very often the case that symptoms will either appear for the
first time or, in fact, even if they were present, become quite exaggerated
around the time that a child was beginning to speak more about what happened.
Q: And why is that?
A: Well, as I have said, I believe it has something to do with this --
the psychological defense mechanism of repression that I've spoken about...
....
page 4-172
Q: In terms of your own clinical experience, can you tell us how typically you will
see the symptom of sexual abuse in children arise only
after the child has begun to disclose sexual abuse and not before it?
A: Well, it is very common in my clinical experience, I think, to see what I
have described, that as I try to get a history, for
example, form the parents about the behavior of a child,
they will describe very little in the way of unusual behavior up to a certain
point, but then, either around the time of disclosure or a little bit
after a child begins to disclose, both-- I might see myself and also have a
parent describe to me a marked change in the personality -- I think a child
becomes much more anxious, active, shows more in the way of sexualized
behavior, whereas before there had been little indication of those symptoms
or none even.
page 6-22 Thursday June 4, 1987
Q: And if you had a child whose behavior was described to you in the
following manner, a child who at times would take his toy soldiers and
line them up outside his doors or windows, would that be something
that you would draw any interpretation from, or would that fit within this
definition of hypervigilence that you've just given us?
[My note: this is a behavior with the toys is what one mother testified
that her son showed]
Mr. Balliro: I object, your honor.
The Court: Overruled.
A: I think certainly one way in which a child could demonstrate hypervigilence
if they sensed that they were surrounded by danger would be to put some
fantasies or playful -- or toy protector around themselves,
and that, as I think I have mentioned, children are often very concrete
in their reasoning and interesting in their play.
So if there's a danger, how do you react to the danger? You'd react
to it by putting a protector around you, and they very frequently
could show that in their play.
page 6-28
Q (by Hardoon): So, for example, if you had a child who might describe an
allegation of sexual abuse and then describes how a teacher came and
extracted her from the circumstances, [my note: teachers witnessing abuse
and telling Gerald and others to stop or putting clothes on the children
after the clown chased them naked is described in reports of early interviews
of children and appears in taped interviews done by Susan Kelley.]
would that be something that would fall within your definition of wishful
thinking?
Mr. Balliro: I object
The Court: Overruled.
A: It certainly could be.
Mr. Balliro: May that answer be stricken?
The Court: Motion is denied.
(
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