P AN D E M  O N I U M
                            Tuesday Evening AOL Chat
Carl (USA), Steve (Canada), Iris (Germany), Khalid (Canada) & Franz (Venezuela)

TOPIC:  REASON, RATIONAL LABOUR, GLOBALIZATION & EMANCIPATION

                              May 30, 2000                                 (Slightly Edited Version)


You have just entered room "panta98 Chat66."
iiiiriiiis has entered the room.
panta98: Hi! Clinging, Stinging Hornets! Welcome on Board!
iiiiriiiis: Hi Franz!
ScnWrt has entered the room.
iiiiriiiis: got my messages?
panta98: Hi! Twinkling, Sparkling, Shining Stars!!!
iiiiriiiis: Hello Carl! It's a pleasure to meet you again!
ScnWrt: Yes
iiiiriiiis: Franz, got my messages?
iiiiriiiis: please, read...
ScnWrt: Hi, Franz and Iris
panta98: Yes, Iris. I invited Khalid!
panta98: Awaiting Steve!
iiiiriiiis:Franz, Steve has been on-line a few minutes ago.
panta98: Now frogmobile disappeared!!!
iiiiriiiis:Also, Khalid seems to have problems with sprint.ca again
plasticsmith has entered the room.
ScnWrt: Franz: Steve is on-line. Please invite him
plasticsmith: Hi all
iiiiriiiis:Franz, I loved your twinkling, sparkling letter!
panta98: Now, I must fish the frog!
panta98: Hi! Steve!!!
iiiiriiiis:Hello Steve!
ScnWrt:Hi, Steve
iiiiriiiis:Glad you could make it! Your video has arrived today in the afternoon!
plasticsmith: Fish the frog, LOL!!
panta98: Frogmobile still not available to be fished out! He was there two minutes ago.
plasticsmith: That was fast. Nice to see some things still work.
iiiiriiiis:Yes, since we are not dealing with Venezuella, as Jeff would say... (at least what is concerning the conventional mail...)
plasticsmith: Iris..did you get to watch it yet?
frogmobile has entered the room.
panta98: Now, I invited him. Let's see.
iiiiriiiis:No, got my mail, I explained you there - a few minutes ago
panta98: Hi! Frog! At last I fished you!!!
iiiiriiiis:Hello, Khalid!
frogmobile:Hi there
panta98: OK, Iris. Steve! A Colour, Bold!!!
plasticsmith:There..add a little color to my life
panta98: Khalid, a colour, bold!
frogmobile:No! I missed your net, Franz.
panta98: Excellent!!!
iiiiriiiis:the guys here were watching TV, so I had no chance to have a look at your video, Steve - will do so after the chat
frogmobile:Hi "Carlos"
ScnWrt:Hi, Khalid
iiiiriiiis:all guapos arrived, well then, lets start!
plasticsmith:It's always nice to put a face to the words
panta98:Ready, Set, On Your Marks, Go .....
frogmobile:Hi plasticsmith
iiiiriiiis:Franz? pardon?
ScnWrt:Please proceed, Franz
panta98:Well, talking about Reason, to reason, to be reasonable, to obey reason, to be beyond any reasonable doubt, to have lost all reason, ...
plasticsmith:Hi Frog
frogmobile:Hi Iris
panta98:... we're living here, next to a fading barrio in Merida, where our "beloved" neighbours (our vecinos) - the rustic, rusty peasants and the coarse, hoarse petit-bourgeoisie - are shouting, screaming. roaring and cursing left, right and centre, without any "Happy End"!
panta98:The deathly Wrath of Jahwe, the deafening Thunder of Thor, are reasoning, are reigning outside there. Soon, also from here, the Gods will ostracize us, will curse us to go elsewhere, and to earn our "daily bread", by"the sweat of our brow".
iiiiriiiis:seems you are talking of Germany, Franz...
ScnWrt:And the USA
panta98:You are right, Iris.
panta98:We seem to be in the heart of the Pleistocene Age, shivering to our very bones, barricaded in our small vulnerable cave, surrounded by an irrational, howling horde of Apo Kenyapithecus Pedregosiensis.
panta98:Yes, in loving consideration of our fellow-human-beings, after an arduous process of reasoning, Jutta and I coined this most apeman-like, most apt concept.
plasticsmith: It's all over the world that way
panta98:Imagine, at last, even we are becoming paleontologists; a bouquet of flowers, hallelujah! Next door, in the "village", we've discovered a new modern, global "human" species.
iiiiriiiis:wow! Franz! proceed!
iiiiriiiis:lyrical as ever, as Steve would say!
panta98:Yes, Steve, all over, in Europe, Africa, Canada, the USA, Guyana and Latin America, I experienced all this; all over the same.
ScnWrt:HG Wells said "We were only apes yesterday". Actually, we're still apes today.
plasticsmith:You are an archaeologist of the future.
iiiiriiiis:!
panta98:Iris, are you studying the future "global village" in Politics at the University of Freiburg?
iiiiriiiis:I try my best, Franz ;-)
plasticsmith:Excuse my spelling. I had no opportunity for education.
panta98: Nevermind Steve, we don't think in words, in letters. Also we are not futurologists!
panta98:Jokes aside, now you have an idea what emancipatory resoning is all about, let's get down to excellent "work", to philosophy, logics, method and epistemology.
plasticsmith:No such thing ... who can know the future
panta98:Firstly, as usual, I'll give some introductory, theoretical remarks concerning our topic: some important reflections concerning our Epistemology & Logical Method. Don't get disillusioned, their bark is louder than their bite.
panta98:You are right Steve, the future is "black", dark, African, like our birth!!!
plasticsmith:Lead on McDuff
panta98:... To analyze Labour, we have to apply our epistemological postulates: Cosmos a n d Einai, especially it's sub-division, Intellect a n d Reason.
panta98:Cosmos simply encompasses the Concrete, Being, Material, Acts, Acting, Praxis, Science, Nature, etc.
panta98:Einai is simply a concept which we have borrowed from Ancient Greek, meaning the totality of Perception, Reflection, Ideas, Thinking, Thought, Cognition, Recognition, the Abstract, Existence, Theory, Philosophy, Society, etc.
panta98: By the way, sub- or in-consciously, we have selected the most appropriate name for our Crew. Also "panta".

Pan = Cosmos; Demon = Einai, Spirit; -ium concerns Contin-ium, Transcendence, Excellence.

Iris & Khalid, are you following?
iiiiriiiis:proceed, Franz
iiiiriiiis:yes
plasticsmith:I am digesting
panta98:Well, Steve, I just finished some atomic "burger" in McDonald's! Right on, Mac!!!
panta98:Where's your "knife", McCarl?
panta98:The latter -- Cosmos a n d Einai -- simply exists as a Diagory. In our debate, it concerns the Affirmation "Intellect" and it's corresponding "Negation", Reason; always understood as a "contradiction", as "Intellect a n d Reason".
panta98:A "Negation" always exists as that what it negates, as it's Affirmation, a n d as itself, as the Negation itself. Also, it is  a n d exists always In-Repose  a n d  In-Motion.
panta98:" A n d " indicates that this is a process, that it is "In-Repose a n d In-Motion", not necessarily only within spatio-temporal parameters. Translated in terms of analyzing the Labour Process, we are dealing here with Reason, i.e., with "Intellect a n d Reason" In-Repose a n d In-Motion.
iiiiriiiis: moment please...
panta98:Khalid, still reading? Still there?
panta98:Yes, Iris a "flash-card", a "brain-wave"?
frogmobile:Yea man!
panta98:Well, then, we'll giddy up!
panta98:Intellect is that what affirms the labour process, what reforms the system. It is composed of Physical and Mental Labour. This aspect we have discussed in detail during our last two chats.
plasticsmith: Franz...stay away from those e-coli burgers!
iiiiriiiis:hehe, Steve! no chance...
panta98:Ratio is that what negates the "affirmation", Intellect, what "exploits" it, within the Labour Process; Reason is the capitalist-revolutionary motor, the driving force of the global system, it exists as "Intellectual Labour a n d Rational Labour".
panta98:Yes, I am only taking "On The Rocks", instead of Water!!!
panta98:I love my Black  a n d  White!!!! A Contradiction, like Intellect  a n d  Reason! Steve!
panta98:The above takes place in Einai, always understood as Cosmos  a n d  Einai, more specifically, it concerns the sub-division, Nature  a n d  Society.
plasticsmith:Why is it a contradiction?
ScnWrt:We are all contradictions, so is life itself.
panta98:Steve, you'll love this one: A "miscarriage", which often happens in Nature, the portentous (verhaengnisvolle) birth of ape-man, man-ape and man had introduced a perverted non-relation in Historic Einai, more precisely, in Cosmic Nature a n d Ontic Einai on Planet Earth.
panta98:Iris, more for you: Of course, all those who consider themselves to be a "man", as members of the sonorous species "Homo Sapiens", as "human beings", should fervently fit on this Cowboy Horse-Shoe. All others are "exempted" from participating in this Labour "stampede". From this global "carnival", respectfully we wish to be excluded.
panta98:Any comments, Carl & Khalid?
panta98:Any remarks about the "miscarriage" about the "stampede"?
ScnWrt:We are looking at human beings as we want to see them, not as others want us to see them
plasticsmith:I'd like to hear more of the contradiction of reason and intellect.
iiiiriiiis: Excellent, Franz!
plasticsmith:How can you have one without the other
panta98:Will follow just now, Steve. Any difference between these views, Carl? Or are they the same views?
ScnWrt:Steve, our intellect is biased by the interpretive community to which we belong
panta98:It's coming, Steve. In thunder and brimstone!!!
plasticsmith:I'm sure it is
panta98:Continuing ... "Society" is always being understood as Nature /a n d Society, where Society negates Nature unilaterally, exploits it. The synonym for perverted "Society" within Cosmic Einai is Man, Mankind.
ScnWrt:This bias inhibits our reasoning
iiiiriiiis:/and, ok
plasticsmith:But some amount of bias is not necessarly contradiction
panta98:For your professors, Iris ... This is not being said in a pejorative manner; it's simply an undebatable, unchatable "fact", supported by zillions of man-made events, data and statistics.
iiiiriiiis:hahahaha!
ScnWrt:Steve, I'm referring to negative bias

panta98:For all of us: ... All these things you can read and study on our Pandemonium.Crew Home Page, at Geocities,under the section, English Lectures, beginning with:  http://www.oocities.org/juttafranz/eng_1.html.

panta98:Now, Khalid, to relax your "coco" ... You see, after all theory is not quite so awe-inspiring!! As consolation, we'll not go on further to explain any unnecessary details. So far the introduction. Let's advance our theme.
ScnWrt:My font size changed. Do you guys read me?
plasticsmith:Who's bias is negative..mine or my opponents?
iiiiriiiis:yes, Carl. I read you
panta98:Steve, here we go, at your service. ... Now, what do we generally understand by "Reason"? Let's see what a "good" English Dictionary teaches us: to think or talk logically; to argue persuasively with someone. And what is Reason in action? To analyze by reasoning; to think out something by reasoning; to persuade someone by reasoning.
plasticsmith:I follow
frogmobile:Carl, your comments are not readable, they seem to be in small little square blocks
panta98:And, Iris, what does the Herrenvolk say: ... What does a German philosophic dictionary say about Reason? Well, the term is derived from the German verb: vernehmen (to perceive, hear, become aware of, learn, understand). Here we see the direct relation of Reason to Intellect, to physical action.
ScnWrt:By negative bias, I'm referring to that which severely inhibits reasoning -
not your or my bias
panta98:And, what do you people think is Reason? I relax, now, and you explain to me. Thereafter I'll continue. ...
ScnWrt has left the room.
ScnWrt has entered the room.
panta98:I'm still awaiting your ideas and explanations of "Reason".
plasticsmith:I think we all have a small view of reason. I prefer the pragmatic one. ...What is the REASON?
ScnWrt:Hi, thanks for reinviting me
frogmobile:Reason is the aspect of cognition in which concepts are transformed, analysed and combined.
plasticsmith:Sometimes with completely un-reasonable results.
panta98:Once upon a time, Harold Wilson, during the Rhodesia Crisis, said: "Reason has fled the scene", I wonder what he meant?!
ScnWrt:Reason is the process by which conclusions are drawn by assumptions.
panta98:So far, so good, Steve.
frogmobile:While everyone knows that Reason exists and has objective content, philosophers have disputed over the years as to the source of our Rational (i.e. Reasoning) ability and its objectivity. Reason is often contrasted with Experience.
panta98:Also assumptions drawn by ignorance or arrogance.
ScnWrt:Recently, the importance of the algorithm in reasoning has increased.
panta98:Iris could tell you a lot about "experience", Khalid. About "rational experience". Introduce us to this highway, Iris. To this Highway Robbery!!!
ScnWrt:Assumptions drawn by mind controllers.
panta98:Exactly, Carl.
panta98:OK! I'll proceed. .....
ScnWrt:Experience manipulated by the controllers.
iiiiriiiis: then we are talking about, non-reason,  /reason, Franz... ---
frogmobile:As I said Reason is often contrasted with Experience (as in the dispute between Rationalism and Empiricism).
panta98: Bravo! Khalid, Reason, Vernunft, coming from "vernehmen", .... But it could also be the process of interrogation in front of the CIA or FBI, or to be called into the witness-box, etc. Here the dominant feature of exploitation becomes visible.
panta98:Furthermore, it is translated as Vernunft -- originally it meant "sense perception", indicating its archaic birth in intellectual action and labour. Then in the Middle Ages, it became Intellect. Here we see how it advanced towards it's affirmation; then in the battle against absolutism and feudalism, ....
plasticsmith:I just got called away by a customer ..be back in a few minutes. ....
panta98:... separating Church and State, at the time of the emergence of the bourgeoisie, during the "Age of Reason", it transformed itself, having gained economic power as Reason. Finally, it triumphed politically in the bourgeois-democratic revolution as Liberty, Equality and Fraternity.
panta98:Are you getting nearer to the meaning of Reason now?
panta98:OK! Steve!
panta98:Meanwhile, Carl, Iris and Khalid, comment on the above.
ScnWrt: The meaning of reason now is to accept the bull-scheisse of the mind controllers.
frogmobile:It is simply the lay man's language; it provides the basis for interpretation of experience.
plasticsmith has left the room.
panta98:Yes, Carl. To accept the lies, tricks and back-biting, that's "reasonable" in business, in the business world.
frogmobile:Sorry for the typo-errors, the above should be read as "in simple layman's language it provides the basis for interpretation of experience".
panta98:Please notify me, when Steve is online again.
ScnWrt:In the global system, money, not language, is the basis for reason.
iiiiriiiis:ok Franz
ScnWrt: ... the basis for interpretation of experience
panta98:Ever since the first stones or pearls were used as an exchange medium, Exchange Values were identical with Human Reason.
panta98:Since those days, our Reason was simply:  Throwing Pearls before Swine.
panta98:They even made money by exchanging a sow's ear for a purse.
iiiiriiiis:(I'm following, please proceed)
panta98:Yes, Khalid. Experience is a funny thing. The young hornets are inexperienced, they must first learn from our experience, from the elders. What do you think?
frogmobile:Yea, man.
panta98:Or do we really need capitalist experience, to become wise?
panta98:Must we first be exploited, dominated, domesticated, discriminated and dehumanized, before we can come to reason, to our reason?
iiiiriiiis:seems we had no chance, Franz - surely don't "needed" it...
frogmobile:Surely you have the answer
panta98:Must we first experience total body, mind and thought control, to experience all these, in order to be able to "reason" officially, "logically" and correctly?
ScnWrt:We don't need to do this. We need to break with the interpretive community.
panta98:Anyhow, let's continue with a wonderful experience. ....
panta98:Warm up your neurones, Khalid.
panta98:The philosophers of the Enlightenment, including Kant and Hegel, supplied it's rationing, rational, rationalizing capitalist contents. In brief, Vernunft had a strange "historic" sojourn, from Sensatio, to Intellectus, to Ratio.
panta98:This reflects precisely the development of the social superstructure of Labour in it's transformation into Capital. This was at best portrayed by Hegel in his Phenomenology, and by Marx in his Capital. The first thinker explains the spiritual superstructure of Reason, of Capital, the latter illustrates its material base, Physical and Intellectual Labour.
panta98:Note: Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, whether we understand it or not, a conditio sine qua non to understand Intellectual Labour and Rational Capital today, is to study intensively and extensively the works mentioned before. Otherwise, we'll not comprehend the current, global "traffic jam" on the Information Highway.
panta98:Continuing last week's discussion: ... Now, let's get back to our debate.The relation between modern Nature and Society is a unilateral, perverse Labour Relation, a Non-Relation, which exploits Nature, and a huge part of Society, the physical and intellectual labourers; ...
panta98:... all this, supposedly to satisfy all human needs; in reality, however, it's driving force, it's laws of motion, are directed towards the realization, rationalization and the accumulation of Capital, which conversely is tantamount to the extinction and pauperization of billions of physical and intellectual labourers.
panta98:Khalid, the coco must get "white-hot" now, but it's worth the trouble!!
iiiiriiiis:(tantamount, Franz? in German, please)
panta98: equal to, equivalent to, Iris, it adds up to ...
iiiiriiiis: danke
frogmobile: danke tambien!
panta98:Nichts zu danken, Schaetzchen!!!
iiiiriiiis::-)
panta98:Obviously, Physical and Intellectual Labour (Affirmation) are counterpoised by Rational Labour (Negation) forming the perverted Einai, called History. Exploited versus Exploiters, Dominated versus Dominators, Discriminated versus Racists, Dehumanized versus Man, Big Brother.
panta98:What "relates", rather what "non-relates" all these, is precisely the Labour Process, the umbilical cord of the Fatherland, of the Patria.
panta98:Now the explanation of reason gets serious, stringent: For historically under-developed Physical and Intellectual Labour, expressed in Hegelian terms, what is "rational is real"; for giga-developed Rational Labour, "what is real, is rational".
ScnWrt:Many recent books glorify exploitative intellectual workers such as an attorney, physician and diplomat.
ScnWrt:Today, what is real is irrational, virtual reality
panta98:Carl, you've studied and criticized your Hegel: Congrats!!! Getting back to the point you raised before: Of course, across denaturalization, dissocialization, maltreatment and perversion, across Mind and Thought Control, by means of Ideology, Capitalist Rationalization educates the "masses", the "labourers", the "intelligentsia", ...
panta98:... teaches them what precisely is rational: to work, to labour, to produce, to reproduce.
panta98:And coming to you, Khalid. ... Of course, being the very same historic, labour process, all social classes and strata have contributed to Rational Labour, across Sensatio, Intellectus and Ratio. The totality of Mankind, simply because it was working and labouring, had contributed to this global monstrosity.
ScnWrt: To experience the murder of 5 clerks in Wendy's fast food restaurant in Queens, NYC, for money.
frogmobile:That was really horrible, Carl.
ScnWrt:Yep, Khalid.
panta98:So, it's not only the "Bad Europeans", the "Illuminati" who got us into this sh... The whole "species" produced this sh.....
iiiiriiiis: D'accord, Franz.
panta98: Not only the "imperialists" and "capitalists", the whole bunch of sh...:  even those who call us "stinking Jews, niggers and coolies", and what we, the latter, really were and are, all,  -- across the ages --  collaborated to produce this Moloch, this Baal. To emancipate ourselves presupposes that we are part of this sewerage system. Otherwise, logically, we need no emancipation.
ScnWrt:Agreed, Franz
panta98:That Sensatio had outboxed "animal instincts", that Intellectus had outfoxed "animal intelligence" and "human sensorial activities", that Ratio had outlawed Sensatio and Intellectus, had taken them for a ride; ...
ScnWrt: All sold their souls.
panta98:... well, that's "history" already, which can be verified all across the ages, in every corner of the globe.
panta98:Yes, Carl, soul and body, we all ate the "human being" and Labour, hook, sinker and bait!!!
panta98:Now, note the following very carefully and comment: Summing up: The fons et origo of all Power is Labour, hence, Rational Labour is Rational Labour Power, is the Labour Power to exploit, to dominate, to discriminate, to dehumanize rationally, rationalized.
ScnWrt:When socialist Michael Harringgton was asked about his bourgeoise life style, he answered, Damnit. Friedrich Engels was a businessman.
panta98:This is the secret of our system, of Globalization!
frogmobile:Interesting Carl.
ScnWrt:Agreed, Franz, including the cell-phone ritual.
ScnWrt: Baal in the cell phone.
panta98:Carl, Harrington was the "right hand" of labour, of capital. ...
panta98: Engels was the "left hand". ....
iiiiriiiis:... and the applied Maths we see e.g explained by Plato, Aristotle, Machiavelli et al, all versions of Psychology included.
panta98:Two sides of the same http://www.labour.coin, today of the http://www.trust.god/$. And, in this Harrington & Engels trusted; it is and was their "golden calf", their Baal.
iiiiriiiis:...leading us empathically to non-reason, to /reason. ...
panta98:Let's continue. ....
panta98:Yes, Iris.
panta98: Every single European thinker of the 18th and 19th century, whether idealist or materialist, -- whether is was Kant, Hegel, Schelling, Fichte or Marx, was glorifying Reason or Vernunft; all wanted Reason to be triumphant, to realize "Freedom" within the process of "History".
panta98:Also everybody, -- except the absolutists and scholastics, who defended the vanishing Ancien Regime -- was celebrating the glorious, bourgeois-democratic French Revolution, which supposedly would realize Reason, would realize Capital, or even Socialism.
panta98:Khalid, something for the stressed coco. .. In the "Power of Negativity", in dialectical negation, even in "negation of the negation", Hegel saw the living element of the World Spirit, of Reason.
ScnWrt:In 1792 in Revolutionary Paris, reason was used to initate France's imperialist ambitions.
panta98:Carl, getting back to Engels & Marx: ... In the case of Marx, who, like Hegel, celebrated the French Revolution, the Victory of Capitalism, was convinced that industrial capitalist society had produced the necessary historic conditions for the realization of Reason and Freedom.
panta98:Exactly, Carl.
panta98:Worse, Carl: All of them, all the great European classical thinkers of the Renaissance, Reformation, Enlightenment had contributed to the Realization of Reason, of Rational Power, of Rational Labour Power, to the rationalization, realization, accumulation and monopolization of Capital.
panta98:Khalid, are you having intellectual fun? Do you learn something, how to do the do?!
ScnWrt:Except in France, many members of the National Assembly, lost their heads.
ScnWrt: Aux armes, citoyens!
frogmobile:Giddy up
iiiiriiiis:...Franz, you could explain what Marx said regarding the necessity of 'humans' to liberate themselves from 'Nature', to show, that we have reached this point today.
panta98:Carl, relating it to today: ... Today, vague, empty, obsolete relicts of this rational explosion of yestermillennium can still be found in all types of "modern" ideology: in "values" such as democracy, progress, economic rationality, development, social equality, political liberty, commonwealth fraternity, human rights, etc.
ScnWrt:Franz, new values such as the investment revolution.
panta98:Of course, Iris & Carl, Marx saw Nature as an El Dorado, as a fertile, feminine quarry to be despoiled, to be exploited. In this, he did not differ from any Nero, Claudio, Hitler, Dahl, Popper or Hanswurst or Hans-Guck-in-die-Luft!!!
ScnWrt:Today, there is no God, but money; and Wall Street is its prophet.
panta98:And the USA is God's Heaven!!! And the Ex-Soviet Union is The Haven of Satan!!!! And Italy is the Illuminati-Personification of Maffia-Purgatory!!
panta98:Let's see what the ancient "Clin...s" did: In early modes of production, "philosopher-kings" produced "intellect"; nowadays, philosopher-entrepeneurs produce Reason, are performing Rational Labour, aimed at exploitation of its very own Affirmation, of Physical and Intellectual Labour,
panta98:I can only add: Alas! That it hurries up, that it liquidates it's material base, and therewith blows itself up into myriad of fragments.
panta98:D'accord, Carl?
ScnWrt:The cell phone ritual has become the leading religion.
ScnWrt:D'accord, Franz.
panta98:What do you think, Iris & Khalid?
panta98:However, Carl, note the following: Before the extensive "negation of the negation", -- of the cosmic detonation, of the historic explosion, -- of the atomization, the atomic radio-active disintegration of the system, of the Patria, come the political unification, the merging monopolization and totalitarian globalization.
panta98:Now we are in your camp, Khalid!
panta98:Any comment?
frogmobile:I think Carl is reffering to the proliferation of the new cell-phone culture here in North America
ScnWrt:Khalid, I understand the cell phone culture exists throughout the post-industrial world.
panta98:I see, says the blind man.
panta98:Carl, agreed!
frogmobile:Wow! Is it the same Iris in Germany?
panta98:Talking about "experience", Iris: ... This is what we are experiencing at present as "marvellous development of technology" and the "breath-taking progress of globalization", as the Final Triumph, the eviternal Victory Sign of Reason.
ScnWrt:Hopefully the blind mind is not a dentist, although that may happen next.
iiiiriiiis: Same here !
panta98:Surely, Carl.
panta98:Well, folks, ... Obviously, the "time" is ripe, to ask the following questions: What can still be done? What can still be thought? How can we get out of this predicament?
iiiiriiiis:Yes, Franz!!
panta98:Any suggestions?
panta98:Can we still bring this world to "reason"? Is there still "Reason" left in this world?
ScnWrt:Resist the existing interpretive community. Encourage independent thinking.
panta98:What is the "reason" for living at all?
ScnWrt:Franz, the reason for living is the challenge of emancipation.
panta98:To work, to labour, to earn money, to marry, to get children, to construct a little house, to go into pension, and then to die like a fly?
panta98:Agreed, Carl. Well said. Let's proceed ....
frogmobile:The whole concept of globalization in relation to labor/intellectual Property and its significances is not yet quite understood by a lot of people. Because of the rise of the importance of intellectual labor and intellectual property the concept of "market economy" is gradually disappearing.
ScnWrt:To make a significant contribution to society such as teach an illiterate person to read.
panta98: Carl, mmmm. ... Loving, dear Iris, you'll like this Heidelberg Experience, where one loses one's heart: ... To ask such questions as stated before, is a responsible, loving liaison, a truthful rendezvous with Emancipation.
iiiiriiiis:Do you think the 'people' will understand, Khalid?
panta98:If they just come out of desperation, just willy-nilly, just to throw an adversary on the "horns of a dilemma", well, then they have no answer, or rather, the answer is: Absolutely Nothing can be done anymore; the History of Salvation is beyond any Redemption whatsoever. Only Fire and Brimstone are awaiting Us!
ScnWrt:Khalid, what will replace the market economy?
panta98: Iris, surely the whole world knows the song: Ich hab' mein Herz in Heidelberg verloren! I've lost my heart in Heidelberg. Surely, Carl knows the tune!!!
iiiiriiiis:Franz, wart mal wenn ich zurueck bin, I'll roast you my dear... you and your teasing...!
panta98:When one falls in love, gets into an emotional liaison, goes on a rendezvous spree along the Neckar River, one loses all "reason", and "reason flees from the scene".
ScnWrt: I lost my heart in San Francisco. ...
frogmobile:The main guiding rod to today's economy is the patenting of "ideas", it is "access" to those "ideas" that now matters and not the "marketing" of products.
panta98: Anyhow, let's advance ....
panta98:... On the other hand, let's ask a question a priori: What is strychnine for Labour and Capital? In our globalized world?
frogmobile:It should now be viewed as the "intellectual economy"
panta98:"Ideas", Khalid? At what cost, at what price, prize?
panta98:Khalid: ... The answer: The emancipatory "miracle" is, that in spite of everything, that anything or anybody or anysoul is still capable of doing something oneself, and of thinking oneself, and of excelling oneself, of, by and for oneself, here and now, everywhere and always.
ScnWrt:Khalid, marketing of ideas involves enormous risks, and unlike products, they are not disposable
panta98:Iris, a further "enrichment" : ... Not even Rational Labour, not even the Illuminati, not even Big Brother, can do, can comprehend, can fathom, can see, can stop, can eliminate this Invisible, Invincible, Invulnerable Principle.
panta98:To do this, they first have to perform hara-kiri, have to stir up pandemonium in their very essence and existence, have to liquidate, to transcend themselves. And then, neither they nor we have any labour pain anymore.
frogmobile:I think that sellers and buyers in a market economy are fast becoming suppliers and users in a "intellectual economy." Streamlined suppliers outsource, co-manage and gain share while their users become members, retainers, subscribers or renters. Everything is acquired on a "just-in-time basis".
panta98:You all would agree with me. ... Who has tasted the natural fruits and social delight of emancipation has crossed the Labour Rubicon already, has tasted the natural flowing juices, has enjoyed the social living truths of excellence.
panta98:OK! Carl & Khalid, I see you started the debate already ... Let's start the discussion. I'm sure there's much to comment, to explain, to celebrate. Let's have a free-flowing talk.
ScnWrt:Khalid, give me an example, using a single idea.
panta98:Continue, Khalid. ....
iiiiriiiis:I'm following...
frogmobile:Iris to answer your question I don't think people have the foggiest idea of what's going on
panta98:Me, too .... roasted or not. ....
panta98:Iris, A Toast To Your Health, and some Roast Beef!!! Schweineschnitzel!!!
frogmobile:Carl, In this digital age, traditional markets are giving way to global networks where ideas, services and experiences are offered and consumers simply acquire "access" instead of products, e.g. the Internet where you do your shopping
panta98:Really, Khalid!! We have the Internet.
panta98:It informs us daily, as never before. The people, millions and millions, are on Internet. How come that they are not informed. Carl, what do you think?
ScnWrt:I think that they are informed, but intimidated.
frogmobile:You use and will use the internet or (information highway) to perform most of the services that would normally have to go and do "foot."
panta98:Hence, soon, we'll just be Alpha's sitting in bed, working, eating and dying right there.
panta98:Space will be limited to a minimum, only endless Cyberspace, Virtual Reality!
ScnWrt:Franz, we'll have more time doing the things we enjoy.
frogmobile:The so-called "middle man" in business is now and will be virtually extinguished
panta98:Iris & Khalid, I think Carl makes a "good" point there.
ScnWrt:Khalid, it looks like the same system but a new arena - the Internet.
panta98:What happens in an "arena", Carl?
ScnWrt:There are lots of middelemen in Internet business
frogmobile:Similarily the management structure of organizations are radically changing. T.V will also become something of a past time just the way we now use the radio
panta98:In our modern global "arena"? I'm looking for a towel to throw in!!!
iiiiriiiis:They can't combine, relate, think - or: they suffer of 'reason-virus', no antidote available. Thats why you can spread "information" all over the cyber-space - nobody will understand. --- Who does have more time for doing what, Carl?
panta98:And soon "My Computer" too, Khalid! And then?
panta98:Won't we all be "bored" to death?
frogmobile:Carl, correct but it also means that just a new elite of intellectual laborers will control the new "intellectual economy."
panta98:With a certain intellectual economic language which billions of "eaters" won't comprehend, hence, they won't be "informed" of anything.
ScnWrt:This new elite are highly alienated, and cut each others' throats
panta98:They will just "yep", "lol", "aagh" around on the Net!
panta98:They will just "thinx", say "thanx", and understand "nix".
panta98:Just thinx, thanx and nix.
panta98:This will be the future x-generation!
iiiiriiiis: future, Franz?
frogmobile:It is no longer profitable for the manufacturing sector to manfacture anything (this is what they are now saying) due to the amount of investments involved this task will be left to another "class" while the others will be transformed into the "intellectual economy"
panta98:Yes, Iris.
panta98:What "other class", Khalid?
frogmobile:its the the "giddy-up" time, sink or swim
panta98:A new one?
panta98:Well, prepare your frogmobile for a jive, for a dive!!!
iiiiriiiis:indeed, Khalid. Agreed.
frogmobile: Do you know Yahoo and the "Amazons.coms" are worth more that the "FORDS" of today?
ScnWrt: Yep, Khalid

panta98 has left the room.

iiiiriiiis: I'll save the script...one moment please, Carl and Khalid
ScnWrt: I asked Franz if he wants me to invite him
iiiiriiiis: invited Franz, Carl
ScnWrt: OK, Iris
frogmobile: We are in the process  of witnessing one of the most radical "revolutions" that will shake the
foundation of how we do every conceivible thing from sleeping to waking up in the morning to how you
buy your groceries to how you communicate to your neighbours.
iiiiriiiis: Yes, Khalid. Exactly
iiiiriiiis: As we said, another stage of the Labour Process, updated version of the 21 century
ScnWrt: Agreed, Khalid
frogmobile: Globalization is only being used at the moment to "open the doors" of other people's homes
and places where they live in other countries however whenever it consolidates itself; there will be no
looking back. We will have no more choices.
ScnWrt: This economy, however, will depend considerably on perception - very risky for the owners
frogmobile: In decades to come even the concept of the state will dissapear.
iiiiriiiis: New, or more precise, modified needs determine  the behaviour, modify it respectively. No
'news', but modifications in al sectors of 'life'.

panta98 has entered the room.

frogmobile: No longer there will be anymore concepts such as  "our national soverignity" or "territorial
integrity, " or a "national antem."
iiiiriiiis: Hi again, Franz
You have just entered room "panta98 Chat66."
frogmobile:No longer there will be anymore concepts such as "our national soverignity" or "territorial integrity, " or a "national antem."
iiiiriiiis:Hi again, Franz
ScnWrt:Hi, Franz
panta98: I had to re-boot. AOL did not like what I had to say about the Internet!
panta98: Hi! Everybody.
panta98: What did you cook up in the meantime.
panta98: A short survey, please.
iiiiriiiis:Carl, Khalid, could you do so, please
ScnWrt:Franz, description of new intellectual economy and NWO
iiiiriiiis:Thank you, Carl.
panta98: Wow... something new, give me the "bottom line" .....
iiiiriiiis: New, or more precise, modified needs determine the behaviour, modify it respectively. No 'news', but modifications in al sectors of 'life'.
ScnWrt:Our behavior will be modified including how we take ein scheisse.
frogmobile:Currently we don't even have anymore "a" " national government" what we have is a new "international state" that makes the new rules and regulations
panta98:In which way? Any specific way that would interest us specifically?
panta98:But, that's excellent, Khalid.
frogmobile:to suite the interests of the new international economy
panta98:Neo-Capitalism is losing its anarchic, chaotic fashion.
frogmobile:The road is now being paved for the new geeks to complete their takeover
ScnWrt has left the room.
frogmobile:It is Franz
panta98:It's getting unitary, consolidated, centralized, functioning perfectly well.
ScnWrt has entered the room.
frogmobile:But there will be utter chaos and mayhem and mass extermination of people of a wide scale since the new economy would not need those that are left behind.
ScnWrt: Hi guys
iiiiriiiis:Hi again, Carl.
frogmobile:They will all be slaughtered.
panta98:Carl, do you agree: ... It's getting unitary, consolidated, centralized, functioning perfectly well.
ScnWrt:I think it's getting chaotic.
ScnWrt:The slaughter is going on now.
frogmobile:Interesting point Franz within every state there is a mass consolidation in the way how it functions.
panta98:Billions are running crazy on a global scale, just look in the news; individual governments can't handle the mayhem in Sierra Leone, Peru or Venezuela anymore.
frogmobile:Carl I said this a few minutes ago
panta98:I think that capitalism is getting "wise"; it has learnt from it's past mistakes.
frogmobile:But there will be utter chaos and mayhem and mass extermination of people of a wide scale since the new economy would not need those that are left behind
ScnWrt:However, the disenfranchised will buy weapons of mass destruction
ScnWrt:They will not be sore losers
frogmobile:True carl
iiiiriiiis:disenfranchised, Carl, what does it mean, please?
panta98:Even capitalism learns from "experience", gets down to "reason". Not so, Iris?
iiiiriiiis:In the sense of perfectioning the system, yes.
ScnWrt:Disenfrancchised-those excluded from the economy
iiiiriiiis:to /reason
frogmobile:Franz I don't think even "capitalism" can control the upcomming upheaval and chaos they will be buried, too.
iiiiriiiis:Thank you, Carl.
panta98:A little atomic accident here and there, a bomb in Pakistan, some AIDS virus in the Tube in New York, would help to resolve the demographic explosion, and solve the water and food shortage.
iiiiriiiis:Doubtlessly, they are doing their job fine!
ScnWrt:Sad, folks.
frogmobile:Those who cannot make it anymore will be relegated to the level of the dogs like in La Pedrogosa.
panta98:Khalid, you under-estimate the new technology, the new energy at capitalist disposal.
frogmobile:I do not but the key is to understand that there are new owners of intellectual production
panta98:Dogs and Under-Dogs always were part and parcel of the world system, a few more or a few less, won't cause much damage.
ScnWrt:Khalid, who are the new owners?
frogmobile:The "old' capitalists are being replaced with the new multibillionaires of the "dott.com" generation
frogmobile:It's a fact
panta98:What are we going to do without our "poor", without the "miserables", without the "wretched of the earth", without the pariah coolies, Lady Di, the Mother of Calcutta,and the IMF would lose their jobs.
ScnWrt:Khalid, aren't the .com multibillionaires behaving in the same manner as the old capitalists?
frogmobile:The "losers" will also be the very rich too
panta98:Ideology would have no basis to appeal to the masses anymore, Chavez would not get into Government anymore.
panta98:But, as you say, there will be only a World government, led by Big Brother Bush!
ScnWrt:Agreed, Khalid. Nobody wins
ScnWrt:It's either everyone wins via emancipation, or everyone loses
frogmobile:Interesting question Carl. Because they are new to the "game';they are only now learning to "walk the ropes" however when they can consolidate their power it will be a WAR
panta98:And what does this unification, merging, monopolization, tell us?
panta98:what conclusions can we draw?
ScnWrt:First step, free energy via Tesla technology for everyone worldwide
panta98:Does it concern us, our emancipation struggle?
iiiiriiiis:nothing more to be done there, Franz
frogmobile:Among different capitalist interests as against the creators of the new intellectual economy
panta98:Well, Iris, nothing more to be done THERE, but everything ELSEWHERE!!!
iiiiriiiis:thats it
ScnWrt:Agreed, Franz
panta98:Let's talk about this ELSEWHERE .
panta98:What about us applying Tesla technology, using free energy?
frogmobile:Franz, "monopoly capitalism" will have to find  new 'ideas" on how to survive since most of the newly merged companies are loosing billions. what next can they do/
panta98:Carl, I'm sure Khalid is not so up-to-date with this, could you make any suggestions?
ScnWrt:The newly merged companies will continue to lose billions. That is of no impartance to us. We need to lobby for Tesla free energy
frogmobile:with all due respect I wouldn't have the time for Telsa technology since I will already be "extinguished".
panta98:The arch-imperialist, Cecil John Rhodes already told modern billionaires what is to be done: To annex the planets!!! That's what they are doing! Spending billions and billions to prepare the Annexation of the planets. Carl wrote an article on this issue: Carl, please inform Khalid.
frogmobile:The pharmaceutical industry and the state will take over my body.
panta98:I mean Space Exploration and Colonization.
ScnWrt:I don't think you'll be extinguished. Start to lobby for Tesla free energy now. Discuss with Bill Lyne.
frogmobile:In three years you will be able to take a trip up to space and also will be given the opportunity to bury your loved one up there.
panta98:Be more precise, Khalid about "extinction".
ScnWrt:Khalid, please read my article on http://www.newrenaissance.com
frogmobile:I will Carl!
iiiiriiiis:to lobby, Carl, sorry, but please explain this term to me, I don't understand it.
panta98:Yes, Khalid, check it out! Carl, please give him the gist of the matter.
iiiiriiiis:what does it mean?
ScnWrt:Khalid, the moon and Mars have been colonized using Tesla technology
panta98:Carl, did I understand you "correctly"?
frogmobile:I will read your article Carl
ScnWrt:Space colonization gives people the opportunity to build their own emancipatory societies.
panta98:The Moon and Mars are already colonized since donkey years, and Khalid still stares at a lonely, golden moon.
panta98:Khalid, it seems that you and I are still living "behind the moon".
frogmobile:Without not even a star to look at anymore
frogmobile:because of pollution.
panta98:Iris, I see you have a full-moon face.
ScnWrt:Franz, they have been partly colonized. Read Bill Lyne's Pentagon Aliens.
iiiiriiiis:Carl, what does it mean, 'to lobby'?
frogmobile:Guys Its time for us to close for tonight
panta98:Carl, now talking very seriously, is that really true, or is it a logical hypothesis?
iiiiriiiis:you said, first step is 'to lobby' Tesla energy...
ScnWrt:Spread the word on the Internet, contact your local elected politicians
frogmobile:I have to go and play a few games of PING-PONG to free my mind from this abyss.
ScnWrt:Tesla free energy for all humanity.
panta98:Because, if it is true, then we'll be very soon, in for a gigantic surprize.
iiiiriiiis:ok Khalid, good-night, see you next time!
frogmobile:Do anyone object if i say good night
iiiiriiiis:Thank you, Carl.
panta98:Khalid, let Carl please reply, and then you can slip off to Moon Land.
ScnWrt:Labinachti (Good night, Latvian), Khalid
frogmobile:Bye Iris, Franz and Carl
ScnWrt:Labinachti
panta98:OK! If you insist!! Good-Bye, Nice Guy!!!
panta98:Carl, do you really think that the Moon is "colonized" in an advanced stage?
frogmobile:labniachti (I have learnt a new word) Buenos noches Carl.
frogmobile:Bye
iiiiriiiis:Carl, please explain what Franz has indicated...
frogmobile has left the room.
ScnWrt:Emancifiers will win in the space colonies by ensuring their survival
panta98:Bye! Khalid, I'll send you the manuscript.
iiiiriiiis:later I will go and read your article
ScnWrt:Franz, yes, I do, by Earth people. Most importantly, read Bill Lyne's book Pentagon Aliens
panta98:Iris, how about National Geographic inviting Jutta and I to a Full Moon Rendezvous?
ScnWrt:Thanks. Iris
iiiiriiiis:I'm trying to obtain it here, Carl
iiiiriiiis:hm, Franz, you decide!!
iiiiriiiis:for me: strange thing, this invitation!
panta98:OK, Carl. I'll do it. Only, let's take it as being the Truth, what are the immediate, immanent implications on Earth?
ScnWrt:Franz, in few years, you and Jutta can enjoy a vacation on the Moon. I and Fran would prefer Mars
iiiiriiiis:hahahaha, Carl!
iiiiriiiis:I prefer San Onofre.
ScnWrt:OK, Iris
iiiiriiiis:But please, could you explain to me the 'gist' Franz spoke about a few minutes ago?
ScnWrt:The implications are we'll change from a global to a galactic economy.
panta98:So, the system is expanding, is going beyond its "historic" limitations, it acquires galactic features.
ScnWrt:Iris, emancifiers will win in space colonies by ensuring the survival of the colonies
ScnWrt:Yep, Franz
panta98:What does this imply for earth-bound Ptolemaic, Copernican, Einsteinian Thinking and Thought?
ScnWrt:Iris, did you find my article?
panta98:And, what does it imply for Emancipatory Theory and Praxis?
iiiiriiiis:I'll look for it later, Carl, will follow here first
panta98:Does it also imply that time-space parameters are getting obsolete?
ScnWrt:Franz, that will require a new chat, and I suggest we invite Bill Lyne.
panta98:What does this mean for past, present and future?
panta98:What does it indicate about Birth, Life and Death?
panta98:How will these new "Truths" affect our lives, our deaths?
ScnWrt:It means that whoever controls outer space controls the Earth
panta98:Will we experience a Renaissance, Rebirths?
ScnWrt:Or whoever emancifies outer space emancifies the Earth
panta98:these were just questions that came up in my mind.
ScnWrt:A renaissance and a rebirth
panta98:Are these not the very questions and problems with which the Pandemonium Crew is dealing?
panta98:Are we not brand-new, original and authentic?
panta98:Are we not strychnine to this Galactic Adventure?
panta98:Iris, any answers or extensions to my questions?
ScnWrt:We complement this galactic adventure. They need our wisdom.
panta98:Carl, won't "control" lose it's obsolete meaning? Would "control" itself, like anything only earth-bound, lose completely its meaning and essence?
iiiiriiiis:You are right, Franz, we are dealing with the questions you pointed out, but surely 'other' than they do.
ScnWrt:Yep, it will, Franz
panta98:What is, and will happen to the individual, to individual life in galactic mensions?
panta98:Will trillionaires cope with galactic reality?
ScnWrt:The individual will have to contribute to a galactic community. Trillionaires will be worthless.
iiiiriiiis:Which individual, Carl?
panta98:Are our galactic discoverers and colonizers aware what galactic expansion implies?
ScnWrt:For example, the airlock repair specialist
panta98:For example, the imminent death of capital, competition and profits.
ScnWrt:Yep, Franz, the're aware
panta98:Do they want to accomplish what the proletariat never could?
ScnWrt:They have no choice. The problems they must deal with continuously. Pepetual crisis management.
panta98:That is, pre-determine, pre-programme their own deluge, their disappearance in "outer space".
iiiiriiiis:The strychnin you spoke about earlier. Thats it.
panta98:Well, Carl & Iris, Homo sapiens had it's day, it's heyday, it is going to join Neanderthal Man and Homo habilis.
ScnWrt:I think they have a proficiency to survive. No Göttedämmerung in space.
iiiiriiiis:Let them enjoy it!
ScnWrt:Franz, I think Homo sapiens will survive and evolve in space.
panta98:Now, I understand why I have no interest in opposing them, I think I should do them a last favour and write an "obituary", glorifying their greatness.
panta98:Not Homo Sapiens, Homo clonis, Homo technicus, Homo Chip, but not the current species, Carl.
panta98:This one is already dead, stone-dead, Moon- and Marx-dead.
panta98:Sorry, a freudian slip-up, Mars-dead.
ScnWrt:Not necessarily, Franz. Actually, it's easier to survive in space than on Earth. Easier to adapt to the natural environment. Everyone must cooperate to survive.
panta98:But, that's not Homo sapiens, by definition, by evolution, the poor thing, in reality, could not even survive on Earth.
panta98:Look around you, how is he going to survive in Andromeda, in the Milky Way; he'll be sour-milk before he even leaves the Solar System.
ScnWrt:It will survive in outer space probably because that's where it originated.
ScnWrt:Different kinds of Homo sapiens will survive in space.
panta98:In that case, he was perfectly "right" in his delirium to dream about Gods, Devils and Angels.
panta98:The guy was born in the Garden of Eden, somewhere on Pluto, the Planet of Money, of Capital.
iiiiriiiis:I feel like yet existing in outer-space... in the town, univerities just 'Homo sapiens'...
ScnWrt:Not really, Gods, Devils and Angels don't exist anywhere
panta98:Then the poor creature must have lost his way, like Little Red Riding Hood, it's about time, as the Vietcong said: Yankee, Go Home!!!
panta98:The sooner the better, for everybody.
ScnWrt:Except, many are out there already.
panta98:However, there's a Wolf out there, and Homo Sapiens is in great Danger, near Heaven and Hell.
ScnWrt:The wolf is within him/her self. Beowulf, Mowgli.
iiiiriiiis: Interesting point, Carl!
panta98:Now, I understand, why in the future World Government, in the USA, this archaic fear, this "someone will get me out there", has really become a plague. It's really a proof that Homo Sapiens is from out of this world.
ScnWrt:The human being is heaven and hell (Picture of Dorian Gray, Oscar Wilde)
panta98:So, Who Is Afraid of Virginia Wolf?
ScnWrt:The Pantemonium Crew isn't afraid.
panta98:D'accord!
iiiiriiiis:!
panta98:Guys, I'm tired too. We have to get up early!
panta98:Do you have the complete text?
ScnWrt:OK, guys, I gotta leave now. Return to free lance work
iiiiriiiis:Ok, Franz and Carl, yes, I saved it
ScnWrt:Thanks, Iris
ScnWrt:Gute nacht
iiiiriiiis:gerne, Carl!
panta98:I have everything, except your little intermezzo, while I was out for 10 to 15 minutes, please send me only that part. to prepare the HTML.
ScnWrt:Buona sera, Bonsoir, Buenos noches
panta98:I find the chat simply marvellous, most educative.
iiiiriiiis:ok Franz!
panta98:Gute Nacht, Carl.
panta98:I am sure you enjoyed the chat.
iiiiriiiis:I'll read it now, sometimes it's too fast for me
ScnWrt:Excellent chat
iiiiriiiis:yes, indeed, Franz!
panta98:Did you enjoy my "Reach For The Stars"?
ScnWrt:Yes, Franz
iiiiriiiis:didn't you read my mail, Franz?
iiiiriiiis:please, do so
iiiiriiiis:I enjoyed it absolutely!
panta98:iris, I'm going to include in the "correspondence" for the MRC, my letter, which you quoted.
iiiiriiiis:Great!
iiiiriiiis:Thank you, Franz - did you see what I meant?
ScnWrt:Excellent, Franz
panta98:Yes, I did. That's why I am going to include my letter in the HTML published already!
panta98:So, guys, reach for the stars!!!
iiiiriiiis:Sehr schön!
ScnWrt:Please post your letter on our forums and lists
panta98:Carl, Iris, greetings from Jutta! Also our best wishes to Fran. By the way, carl!
iiiiriiiis:Carl and Franz, as always it was a great, great pleasure for me to be here with you!
ScnWrt:Give our regards to Jutta
panta98:Can we sing Happy Birthday already?
iiiiriiiis:Thanks, big hug to Jutta!
iiiiriiiis:And my regards to Fran, Carl!
ScnWrt:Un plaisir to be here with you, Iris
panta98:Some lovebird told me that somebody is going to celebrate his birthday soon!
ScnWrt:Thanks, Iris
iiiiriiiis:I think she knows what a nice guy she has at her side!
ScnWrt:Yep, Franz
iiiiriiiis:and vice versa!
panta98:OK! Carl. Gute Nacht!!!
ScnWrt:Gute, nacht.
iiiiriiiis:ok, good-night!
ScnWrt has left the room.
 



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