Hi Chris,
Thanks for responding. I will be buzy for the rest of this week but I'll try to put more time onto it as I have them. In the mean time, I need suggestions on how you guys want the search engine function...that way, it helps me implement the code better. The more suggestions you give the better...or send me links and tips on this topic to help me out... The better we plan this out, the less time it will take in the long run to maintain it.
Your suggestions about searching by year is a good one. I had in mind for the user an option to search by range of dates/yr. Either way, if we are to use JS, the user will end up having all of the archive files downloaded into their machine's /temp/ directory because they are JS files (archive.js). It may not be a concern for those having newer machines but it is the few that have smaller machines that may run into problems. This will not be an issue if we use Server Side Scripting (such as Perl).
Also, I am thinking of just searching for the Subjects. That way, the __.js file will not be so big...but then, the current archive will need to add an anchor tag to each message so that the result can point them directly to the message.
I need more suggestions guys. Comments anyone?
Thanks guys for helping me out!
Vo Minh Duc
Thanks for all the feedback on how to do the reviews! I'm also constantly looking for ways to make the Lion's Cave more helpful, informative, useful, etc. so if anyone has any suggestions for what's there or what you'd like to see there, let me know and I'll take it into consideration.
The system I've settled on is a separate webpage for each area. On the page is a section for comparisons between different stores in that area as well as a section for comments on each specific store. Right now I'm scouring the archives and looking for helpful comments. So far I've gone through 1996 to 1998 so I've got about another year and a half to go through (can't wait until the search script is ready!).
If you sent me contact information on places, it'd be great if you could also write a short review of the place. I'm thinking specifically of:
Contact information (address, phone, fax) for the following places would also be great:
If you have info on these or any other places that would be helpful to us, send out a message to the group or to me personally at(chrislow@fuller.edu) and I'll add it to the right page.
Thanks!
Chris
Hey,
Like i said before, great job and cool idea. I have no clue as to how search engines work, so I can't really help you out there, but I can give some suggestions... Maybe for key words like, "stacking" or " cheng" or "sash"... something like that, y'know.
Jason
Hi all! I'm a new member here.
My name is Vela and I come from Indonesia. I've just been playing Lion Dance for 4 months, all my member groups are girls. Now, we're learning how to play on chairs and sticks(is that what you guys call it? and I've got several things to ask to you whom I suppose are the expert ones.
Firstly, I want to know if there any special chairs arrangement that is easier to climb and to play on, of course not too high and not too low. Just say that it is for beginners. That will be great if you can tell me the order of the movement.
I also want to know how can the 2 people inside the Lion Dance costume jump down from the top chair smoothly without breaking their legs? Are there any special things to pratice for that? Which one is easier to do, jump down and stay or jump down and rolling on the ground?
When I try to step on my friend's hips, she loses her balance, that also happens when I grab her waist with my legs and try to get down to take the greens. It will be riskful to do up on the chairs. Any suggestion?
If you know anything about playing on chairs or sticks, please tell me. I really appreciate your reply (^-^)
love,
Vela
> While these are a part of history and should be acknowleged, I think that
> for the most part the modern generations of lion dancers are not involved
> in this. Leung's White Crane, Yau Kung Moon, the Jung Wah Associations, and
> other groups that have been around for a long time may have ties to
> questionable groups but that should not automatically paint them as "bad."
.. here comes a little rant..
I think that the Yau Kung Moon group up in Vancouver (and maybe down in SF and LA but I don't know for sure) have split from the main group, and is basically run by a crook. I mean, what's their purpose for doing the lion dance? The leader of the group is obviously doing it to make money, and money alone. Where's the 'yee hay'? Now that his lion dancer wants to get out, how is he going to make money? He resorts to threats and crap to keep control over the dancers. I sure hope that the students in the group aren't the same way! Back in the old days in China, this 'leader' would have been dealt with swiftly and by another school, the Chinese way!
Nowadays, there are all kinds of people doing things to make money, saying anykind of bullshit to pump themselves up to make money. Look at some of the self-proclaimed qi-gong 'masters' who say they can do some kind of magic trick.. if you pay. What's the saying? "you can't kill a tiger across the mountain" Or look at all the damn kung fu schools out there who teach 'kung fu' to just take advantage of people, suckering them in with a long contract to study for a year or whatever and then the so-called "si-fu's" who don't know what kung fu really means.. or the 'sifu' just comes by in a suit and briefcase to pickup the student's cash then takes off.. or worse still, runs a gambling outfit out of the front of the school.. it goes on and on.
I really appreciate the enormous responsibility that a sifu has to his students.. in a kung fu school, educational school, or a lion dance school, whatever. I hope that people will have the desire to find the good teachers out there. In the USA, there are so many poor teachers who don't realize the impact of their actions on their students, and the damage is done for many generations.... thus, I think this is why bad teachers were 'taken care of' in the old days in China.
> Nowadays there is a rise in Asian gangs, especially among immigrant groups.
> I think that Lion Dancing can be used to prevent this. The Lion Dance can
> give them a sense of pride in being Asian, and something constructive
And... being white.. it also reaches out to more than just Asians.. my koon has vietnamese, chinese, american whites and blacks, mexican, etc, etc, students and we all benefit greatly from our education!
Geoff
Chris,
The address for Sang Woo Loong is as follow:
Sang Woo Loong Art Advertising
Mr. Leung Yau Kam
28, Western Street, Ground Floor
Sai Ying Pun, Hong Kong
Phone: 2540 1369 or 2549 4204
Fax: 2803 7399
His factory is located at
121A, Second Street, Ground Floor
Sai Ying Pun, Hong Kong
Phone: 2540 1213
I was in Hong Kong three weeks ago so all the information is accurate. I know him very well, since our club buys from Mr. Leung. His prices are higher but his workmanship is beautiful. His lion heads are well fortified with extra bamboo ribs inside the head. Very sturdy compared with the generic Fat Shan heads from China.
Ernie
Chris,
From what I understand from my Hong Kong source, Pak Wan Sports Company have been out of business for a couple of years already.
Ernie
In a message dated 4/27/00 12:46:55 AM, ernieloo@hotmail.com writes:
>His lion heads are well fortified with extra bamboo ribs inside the head. Very sturdy compared
>with the generic Fat Shan heads from China.
hi ernie:
extra bamboo...does that mean the head is heavier too? the lion heads made 30 years ago were a lot more studier than the ones nowadays...but they were heavy compared to the ones nowadays.
dr. doong chang
>My name is Vela and I come from Indonesia. I've just been playing Lion Dance
>for 4 months, all my member groups are girls. Now, we're learning how to
>play on chairs and sticks(is that what you guys call it? and I've got
>several things to ask to you whom I suppose are the expert ones.
Hi, Welcome to the list. Are you talking about actual sticks? or do you mean "poles"? And, chairs or benches? Hehehe, I would have thought your sifu would be an expert.
>Firstly, I want to know if there any special chairs arrangement that is
>easier to climb and to play on, of course not too high and not too low. Just
>say that it is for beginners. That will be great if you can tell me the
>order of the movement.
What we usually do is, decide how we want to set up the benches and stools then we'd figure out a routine based on that. We have a different routines for different ways we set everything up. Some are easier and then there are some that are more difficult.
>I also want to know how can the 2 people inside the Lion Dance costume jump
>down from the top chair smoothly without breaking their legs? Are there any
>special things to pratice for that? Which one is easier to do, jump down and
>stay or jump down and rolling on the ground?
How about it you tell us how you have everything set up... It'd probably be easier for us to help you, or give you any suggestions.
Jason
Hi Jason,
Thanks for your responses. I know that many of you do not know how search engine works, I am not asking for specific coding style. I just like to know what functionalities you like to have on a search engine as a user...maybe from experiences with other search engines on the web.
Now that I have the chance to think about, Chris is the one who I should be colaborating about the structure of the search engine. However, just keep in mind next time when you have to do a search on something and maybe e-mail personally on what type of experiences you have about using search engines.
Until next time....gotta get ready for a quiz in 10 minutes... :-|
Vo Minh Duc
Corrections....
> keep in mind next time when you have to do a search on something and maybe
> e-mail personally on what type of experiences you have about using
I mean to e-mail me personally, unless you want to share it with the rest of the list, about your experience. I have a pretty good idea of what it's going to be like and what it will do...I just want to know whay your experiences about it, that's all.
Chris: I will probably go offline with you after this message about the search engine. I just have a question for you. How do you convert all these messages into HTML? Do you use some kind of software or do you write your own script to parse them? How hard will it be for you to convert the messages into HTML and .js files at the same time? You may response to me personally.
Thanks guys.
Vo Minh Duc
I have heard the same thing.
Stephen.
> From what I understand from my Hong Kong source, Pak Wan
> Sports Company have
> been out of business for a couple of years already.
Our school just fixed up some lionheads that are made about 30+ years ago, and yes, they are heavier than the newer ones we have. But I think the heads are wider too. I think the bamboo doesn't add much to the weight. I believe it's more the material used to do the actual shell of the head. We were using paper towels, but a lot of glue, so I think the glue added a lot to the weight. Just some thoughts.
S
I just got a request from a guy who is interested in learning the drums for Northern Style Lion Dancing. If there are any percussionists on the list willing and able to help him out, let me know and I'll pass contact info. on to you. The most helpful would be audio or video tapes.
Chris
Sorry I can't help, but I would also like to learn northern style drumming, too.
to: Layton Doung, are you familiar with this style?
Willy
Dr.
Yes, his heads are made the old fashion way. Lots of bamboo strips inside the head and very hard to break. The only weak points are the lower mouth. The inside never breaks because there are bamboo crossbeams every one or two inches apart.
They are at least 5 to 10 pounds heavier than the Fat Shan heads that I have carried. Even Master Siou's head is a featherweight compared with Mr. Leung's.
Nice to hear from you, Doc Doong Chang
Ernie
I haven't seen it written down. Some guys have a southern beat written in some kind of symbols, maybe they have northern style written down too. The northern style we do is pretty much a continuous fast roll, with more loud individual beats when they do a trick. It's tough for the drummer! If he lives around Seattle, then I could let him know when we do another performance so he can hear the beat.
g
HI THERE I DONT WANT TO UPSET ANY BODY BUT I HEARD ABOUT SHIT LIKE THIS BUT THIS IS THE STORY I HEARD. IF ANYBODY REMEMBERS THIS PLEASE BACK ME UP!
A WHILE BACK YKM STARTED AS THE SHOALIN YAU KUNG MOON, AND WERE SUPERVISED BY DANNY JANG, EUGENE JANG AND ONE OTHER . ALL 3 PEOPLE ARE RELATED , A FATHER AND TWO SONS IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. THE YKM TEACHERS WENT AROUND THE LOCAL "TONGS" AND FAMILY AND OR VILLAGE ASSOCIATIONS TO TRY TO SELL THEIR SERVICES AS HIGHLY TRAINED MARTIAL ARTIST AND LION DANCERS TO THOSE PARTIES. SOME AGREED AND SOME DID NOT. BUT A LOT OF FUSS WAS MADE AT ONE OF THE ASSOCIATIONS AND TEMPERS FLARED WHEN YKM WAS DENIED A OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH. I GUESS WEEKS PASS AND THAT ASSOCIATION WAS HAVING THEIR "GROUP DINNERS" WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE YKM LED BY ONE OF THE JANG BOYS (I THINK EUGENE, WHO HAS SUSPECTED TRIAD TIES) COMES OUT ALL ROUGH 'N' TOUGH AND TELL HIS BOYS TO START GOING AT IT IN THE RESTAURANT LIKE YOU WOULD SEE IN A CHINESE GANG MOVIE.
DONT UNDER ESTIMATE THE SKILLS OF YKM VANCOUVER. I THNK THEY CAME IN THE TOP THREE IN SOME CONTEST IN HONG KONG I THINK(THAT IS WHAT THEY BRAG ABOUT) BUT I MYSELF HAVE SEEN DANNY JANG LION DANCE IN PERSON. I MIGHT NOT BE AN EXPERT AT ANALYZING LION DANCING BUT I KNOW WHAT LOOKS GOOD. I HOPE THIS INFO HELPS OUT IN ANY WAY
>POLICE SAY LION DANCER GOT AMPUTATION THREAT
>=============================================
WHERE AND WHEN DID YOU SEE OR FIND THIS ARTICLE , I WOULD LIKE TO GET MY HANDS ON IT
THANX DANIEL
In a message dated 4/28/00 1:03:05 AM, orientaldragon8@home.com writes:
> WHERE AND WHEN DID YOU SEE OR FIND THIS ARTICLE , I WOULD LIKE TO GET MY HANDS ON IT
The Province newspaper, Vancouver. Don't know the exact date....sorry!
Dr. Doong Chang, SF
Having just rebuilt rwo lionheads, one new and one fairly old I can tell you the difference is dramatic. At least the one I have were very different. The old on was far strudier, wider and overall better built. the new one, despite an aluminum lower support ring is very fragile. The thin balsa type frame spars are held together with paper ties that unravel at a heavy touch. My old lion needs only minot tuning up and mostly on the hair and eyebrows. Every time we use the new one now it is a major project.
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Since we're on the topic of fixing lion heads, I have a question.
How do you fix the back of the lion head? The place with the padded pillow on the inside. My team seems to broke that spot the fastest! I kept using clear tape to reinforce it but I have no other way of making it any sturdier. Do you have any idea how I can strengthen it without having to result to clear tape? Clear tape seems to do the job temporarily. I had to do the taping every time we head out for a performance.
While I am at it, how do you teach your Head dancers to avoid breaking the back of the head? For my team, they broke it because they use the back and the pillow as cussion when they bring the lion head down after raising it. Or they press their heads against it to gain control of the head while dancing. How do you guys get around this? (FYI: We do mostly Fat Shan style and we have been coordinating many of the Hoc Shan moves to our performances.)
Thanks,
Vo Minh Duc
P.S.: By the way, I have been noticing that people had been replying to messages with 'Re: [LionDance] Equipment Store Reviews' but the content of the messages does not have very much to do with the subject. I had thought of allowing people to search for the subject only...it is faster that way...but I don't think it is going to work very well if we keep sending messages that have the wrong content to the subject line. So I just want to suggest that if you write a message that is of a different topic then what is said on the subject line, please rename the subject to match the content of your message. Please keep this in mind next time you reply to a message. Thankx. :-D Peace! :-)
Hi Duc
On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:04:49 -0700 (PDT) "M. Vo" writes:
> How do you fix the back of the lion head? The place with the padded
> pillow on the inside. My team seems to broke that spot the fastest!
I have used some of Jennifer's suggestions about long term solutions. Fabric stiffener and fabric are a great way to reinforce any part of the lion head. I haven't fixed many heads, but even decoupage (a type of glue) and fabric will do the job just as well. In the past, I have used thin white chiffon and decoupage glue - works great. Use it on the
inside of the head if possible, on the outside if necessary. Just cut the strips, and paste the glue right on with any brush. Let it dry and paint it over. One layer of fabric will usually do. Very easy! The real secret is the acrylic sealer that you spray on at the end, which will protect it from moisture and humidity. Also gives it a glossy shine.
You can find decoupage glue, acrylic sealer (in a spray can), and white chiffon all at any crafts store. I usually go to Michael's or Hobby Lobby (these are craft chain stores around Houston).
> While I am at it, how do you teach your Head dancers to avoid
> breaking the back of the head? For my team, they broke it because they use the
> back and the pillow as cussion when they bring the lion head down after
> raising it. Or they press their heads against it to gain control of the
> head while dancing.
Ah, it's all about control. Usually the rough and tumble types think you have to destroy the heads to make the performance look good. Not true! Even when you do raise the head and bring it back, you must bring the head back with control and care. You should rest the lower rim on your shoulders and back, not rest the pillow on your head. In fact, on the way down, I try not to touch anything and let my arms control the motion. After I have reset, then I rest the head's rim on my shoulders/back. Raise the head outward at a 45 degree angle, not straight up and down. This means you have to lean forward when dancing, something Master Siow taught us at the conference. Remember how Master Siow also emphasized the best way to preserve your heads is to take care of them? That's an eternal truth we should all learn.
Willy
In a message dated 4/28/00 2:59:50 PM, willyle@juno.com writes:
> While I am at it, how do you teach your Head dancers to avoid breaking the
> back of the head? For my team, they broke it because they use the back
> and the pillow as cussion when they bring the lion head down after raising it
when bring it down, bend the your body foward to absorb the impact of the head coming down. and be gentle, doggone it!
dr. doong chang
Our school had a lot of experience fixing lion heads. Yeah the back does get broken easily. When we fixed up one of our old lions from scratch (ie. the skeleton of it), we used chopsticks for the back of the lion's head for the skeleton. It's very sturdy that way, but you better make sure that you have a good pillow, or else it really hurts when you are dancing with it. I have personally experience with that.
Hope that helps.
S
>Ah, it's all about control. Usually the rough and tumble types think you
>have to destroy the heads to make the performance look good. Not true!
>Even when you do raise the head and bring it back, you must bring the
>head back with control and care. You should rest the lower rim on your
>shoulders and back, not rest the pillow on your head. In fact, on the
>way down, I try not to touch anything and let my arms control the motion.
> After I have reset, then I rest the head's rim on my shoulders/back.
>Raise the head outward at a 45 degree angle, not straight up and down.
>This means you have to lean forward when dancing, something Master Siow
>taught us at the conference. Remember how Master Siow also emphasized
>the best way to preserve your heads is to take care of them? That's an
>eternal truth we should all learn.
Exactly what I was going to say. Letting the your head catch the pillow on the way down shows the sign of not enough control, and laziness. It should
be your arms that do most of the work. You say that they're using the pillow to cusion the head when bring it back down after being raised, the
only wsay I see that it could be breaking is that if you're lowering the head, you're making it faced down. The way we were taught was, after rasing
the head, when you bring it back down, the head should be looking forward, not down. If you lower the head looking forward, your head shouldn't really
be touching the pillow. For walking, rest the rim of the lion head on the base of your neck, where you neck meets your shoulder. However, when you
rest it there, people have a tendancy to hunch over, resulting in a full silhouette of your back through the tail. Ultimately, like willy said, the
best way to preserve your head is to take care of it. You can't expect to keep them forever if you're banging the bakc of your head into the bamboo.
>Or they press their heads against it to gain control of the head
>while dancing. How do you guys get around this?
I find that to gain more control, let the the whole head cover your shoulders. This way, if you move you body, the head moves with it. This saves energy and stength in your arms.
Jason
Lion heads no days tend to spit open in the back because they don't have as many bamboo cross members as before. We talked about Pak Wan closing shop and I know for a fact that the last few years they've been making heads, they were charging $1200 to $1800 per head and they often split open in the back within the first few performances. The best way to prevent this from even happening is to take the pillow off as soon as you receive the head. Then get some surfboard or sailboat resin and brush it on the inside back of the head thick with one or two layers of fiber glass mesh reinforcing. Then, put the pillow back on and you're good to go. Another hint, many heads get hit against doors and other obstacles which cause holes in the cheeks and above the eyes. Use expanding foam which comes in cans and is sold at any hardware store. Its used in construction to insulate walls. There are different types which cure soft and spongy or solid and firm. Use the firm one one the inside of the lion's cheeks and in the nooks and crannies above the eyes to prevent holes from puncturing through.
All these techniques are done inside the head and should help keep the outside from holes and tears.
Good Luck.
Man... they sure don't make heads like they used to! I've never seen any of these problems you guys are talking about. I could understand that with a $500 head, but a $1800 one??
g
Anyone know of a web page that might have a picture that shows the difference in these types of heads?
g
It's in hong kong dollars. If you use a currency converter it should come out to something less insane. It actually comes to 231 US dollars.
Albert Le
Geoff Hudson wrote:
> Man... they sure don't make heads like they used to! I've never seen any of
> these problems you guys are talking about. I could understand that with a
> $500 head, but a $1800 one??
Go to the Texas Section of The Lion Cave and go to JK Wong's Kung Fu Academy. I think they have a section on it.
Albert Le
Ah... I thought that was US dollars. Nevermind... I don't think you'd see that in a US $1500 head then.. but definately a USD $231 for sure. You get what you pay for!
g