What group are you from? Is that the full name of the group from San Jose? The group you describe sounds famliar but the name doesn't ring much of a bell.

Albert Le

Hmm.... our mouths don't seem to flatten out like you said. Does it only do that when the mouth gets wet too often from performances? It shouldn't flatten because we paper-mached the mouth a few months ago, and the skeleton of it curves up, so unless if the bamboo skeleton is broken, the mouth should keep its shape. The most common thing that I see on our mouths is just the paper mache coming off, but that's probably just due to poor craftsmanship. Hope that helps.

Si Si

Well Si Si,

The bamboo broke off. I am just curious how you can strengthen that part. I wonder if using some type of hardening (clear) spray might help...any ideas? Well, yes, the mouth got wet from the lion eating oranges, lettece, and watermelons. Also because the mouth come in contact with the ground while doing the eating that it broke the tape I had on...that's how the water got in and wet the paper.

Vo Minh Duc

Hi Vo,

>I thought Master Siow said to only get the rim of the Head rest on your
>shoulder....by the neck. Are you saying to have the "whole head cover
>your shoulders" every time you dance low? My team used to dance that way
>it looks very rigid/stiff and not flexible. I also found to have very
>little control of the head that way...but by resting the rim on the
>shoulder gives me more control of the head movemen.

No... I meant when you're walking for a long period of time... like in a parade or something. Mind you that you don't walk like this for too long, then it just looks funny. Mabe for a couple of mintues just to save some energy.

Jason

The part that usually breaks first is where we hold the mouth. Most of the time we hold it under the square hole where you tie the mouth to the main head. We hold our thumbs on the rim of the head just in back of the mouth (the strait piece of bamboo rim accross the opening of the mouth.) And we use our fingers to flip the mouth up and down. This is the way we usually fix the mouth. If you look at the bottom of the mouth, you'll see that there are cross beams of bamboo, both horizontal and vertical. We cut away the bottom half of the paper and the second layering of the hard, I don't know what it is, but it looks like gauze, it's really hard, and then we carefully untie the vertical bamboo beams (or horizontal, whatever is first). So what's left is the remaining beams, another layer of that hardened gauze and the top layer of paper where the teeth and tongue is painted. We'll find an old school binder, the three ring kind but not the hard ones, the soft fexible ones. We cut the cover into the shape of the mouth. We super glue it on to the remaining beam and let it dry. After that's done, we tie the remaining beams into place and fasten the connections between the beams and plactic binder cover with more super glue. Top that off with and acrillic or some sort of laquer that makes it hard. We apply a new layer of gauze and the original piece of paper while the laquer is still drying, at the same time pressing on it to get the air out. We use clamps on the mouth while it drys to get rid of the air pockets and to flatten it. Clothes pins work to around the edges where it's a bit more fragile. After its dry we spray a sylicone water repelant on it. It's so cool to watch the water sheet off of the mouth when we do a water cheng.

People have suggested using cloth strips ans other stuff, but it tends to make the mouth heavier and thicker, making it difficult to move. I hope this has helped anyone needing ideas how to fis the mouth.

Jason

Hmm... if you want to fix this problem permanently, then maybe it's best if you redo that mouth. That's what we did recently with a few old lionheads at our school. We used tape. I think they were sports tape to rejoin the broken joints of the bamboo. Then we paper-mached it. I am not sure what else you can do to repair it. Let me ask my sihing later. He is the one who usually does most of the repairs. I'll let you know when I find out.

Si Si

albert,

sorry, my name is Layton . Yellow river drummers.

thei group from San Jose seem to to a combination of a few schools. small dragon, both norther and southern lions and martial arts in their show. They may go by other names but i only remember the seeing the chinese charaters for hero (ying hung). They used a custom metal drum cart with nice wheels. Other instruments like the smaller drums where tied to the side of the larger drum.

cory could you help me they where at the show in oakland during the Chinese New year.

any one else on the list doing the Asian parade in Mt. View castro street on May 13th.

Will stephen or corey be there???

layton

Unfortunately, I won't be there. In my back yard too.

> any one else on the list doing the Asian parade in Mt. View
> castro street on May 13th.
> Will stephen or corey be there???

Hey all,

I've got something to talk about.. A Lion Dancer from my city (Surabaya, Indonesia) named Sukito, has just passed away. He was just turn 18, a kind and clever young guy who should be going to take a national exam. Really sad.. He had a heart problem, but as he was thought "to play until the end of his performance", he continued to play despite having his body felt something wrong. I didn't know him at all, before I read the news.. but deep in my heart, I feel a very deep emotion...Just wanna say that.. and in my mind, always thinking whether I had been him, would I be happy to die on the stage? Proud like a soldier in a war? Sorry if my mail might be bothering you.

care,
Vela

Hi Jason,

Wow...that was really descriptive. Thankx. I'll take a closer look at it and get back to you with follow up questions (if there is any.)

Cheers,

Vo Minh Duc

Another option:

When you buy lions direct from the factory, you can request extra mouths, balls, fur. Depending on which factories, HK, Foshan...etc., prices will range. Some factories may not sell parts. The Foshan mouths and fur cost only a few dollars(US). The pompoms can be expensive from HK but in Foshan, it is cheaper though not as pretty.

Just some ideas..

Sherman

Hi Sherman,

How do you contact these factories? Does anyone have any contact information? I buy my stuff from Darwell and they do not have any accessories on lion heads. They sell whole sets only. hhmmm, perhaps I can request for them to order these small accessories for me on their next order. I'll give that a try.

Thanks Sherman!

Vo Minh Duc

Great, let me know how it goes!!

Jason

Thank you for sharing that. I also feel saddened by his death.

Si Si

My sihing has bought pompoms and accesories for lion heads for the new heads just recently. I think it's somewhere in the Sunset distirct on SF. I am not sure where though. I'll try to find out.

Si Si

Ooo ok. The group you described is Yon Yee Tong. That drum cart wasn't custom made. It's from Vietnam. 3 teams including them have that drum cart. Its a very good drum cart. Im going to be getting one of those soon when i get the contact info from my friend. Aparade in mountain view in may? did they get rid of their new years parade and created this one?

Albert Le

It's jonie uniforms you bought it from

Albert Le

>My sihing has bought pompoms and accesories for lion heads for the new heads
>just recently. I think it's somewhere in the Sunset distirct on SF. I am
>not sure where though. I'll try to find out.

Just to get rid of the old messages below...

Jonie's.

Hey guys,

Darwell sells extra beards for 10 dollars a piece. They are white and are very durable nylon, like Master Siow's beards.

Jonie Uniforms sells extra mouths, pom poms, pretty much anything you want if you are willing to pay.

Hey Albert, do you have a picture of the drum cart? The ones I've seen have a section in the front to hold weapons/school flags, and they usually have a gong holder off to the side. All metal. Is that the same one? Or is the Vietnamese one fancier?

Willy

oh ok. thanks...now I don't have to find out=)

Yes yes albert... day time and less rain.. in may. two day now.. sat and sun. parade only on sat.

ld

Yes yes albert... day time and less rain.. in may. two day now.. sat and sun. parade only on sat.

ld

No i dont got a picture at the time. The drum cart is like that, but there isnt a weapons holder. There is a drum stick holder, gong holders on both side, the pulling thingy that snaps back onto the cart when not in use. The front wheels are bigger than the back. It's all metal. Some carts have paintings on them so you can make them fancy.

Albert Le

Hi Willy,

Well, Darwell confirmed that they have the beard now for $10 like you said. But they do not have anything else and they do not have any way of ordering them now either.

Hay, Willy...does Jonie Uniforms sells the set of drum sticks like that of Master Siow? You know, the onese where it's bigger at the center and pointier toward the two ends? Those were sold for $35 (I believe) at the Lion Dancer's Conference....If Jonie has it...how much are they selling it for?

Vo Minh Duc

Hey Duc,

Yeah, Darwell is very adamant about not breaking up any of the sets they get. So you can't just buy a lion head without the tail, etc. Anyway, I know Clarion sells those tapered drum sticks for $20 a pair. It's not made of the same wood as Master Siow's but you can soak them in wood stain and they should last a while.

Willy

hi williy.

i found this video at reel.com for 12.99. it sounds like fun to watch.. I like to listen. Do you think there is a way to see if some off beat channel will be show it.?? even if it is a satellite feed i have friends who would record it for me.

sfsu has a copy but you need to be a teacher to borrow the copy . on lazier.

thanks for the tip.

i give you a report if i see it

layton

Hi Layton,

I hope you enjoy it. I'm pretty sure I could go to Berkeley's video archives and borrow it, too. But it does seem like this movie is semi-famous among movie buffs, so it shouldn't be hard to find.

Willy

ps - Have you ever stopped by Chung Ngai to conduct drumming workshops? Would you be interested?

Hey, I've got some problems when doing "expressions". Is it right to put your head on the cushion when you are trying to show an expression? For example, looking at a thing that is unfamiliar. And do you put your head on the cushion a lot when playing? Is there any special movement that you should put you head there?

I also would like to know bout scoring system. Is there any special part that will be scored high? Which one is more important, techniques or expressions? Or maybe the difficulty? Is it always the same in every championship?

Thanks a lot all!!!

care,
Vela

>Hey, I've got some problems when doing "expressions". Is it right to put
>your head on the cushion when you are trying to show an expression? For
>example, looking at a thing that is unfamiliar. And do you put your head on
>the cushion a lot when playing? Is there any special movement that you
>should put you head there?

Well, if you put the back of your head to the cushion, chances are, your shoulders will be sticking out. In my opinion, what I think is a bit better, is if your wrap the rim of the head around your shoulders. Hold the mouth the way you usually hold it (lets say you hold it with your left hand) and with your other hand (right hand), hold the string that moves the eyes and ears, rest the cross bar of the lion head on your right forearm. this way, you'll keep the head level and not have it wobble. An important thing when making expressions is making sure you act "curious". Look up, down, right, left. not necessarily in that order. Also, make a conscious effort to move twitch the eyes and move the mouth.

>I also would like to know bout scoring system. Is there any special part
>that will be scored high? Which one is more important, techniques or
>expressions? Or maybe the difficulty? Is it always the same in every
>championship?

High scores will probably be counted on the sequences. If they're longer than other, and especially if they're "clean". Meaning if you stick the landings, if it's fluid. Difficulty rating will always get you a good score..

Jason

Just like to spread some news. Clarion is recieving a new shipment of lions in June. Darwell recieved a small shipments a few weeks back. For those who want to see one style of VN lions more up close, go to here: http://www.oocities.org/gumloong/otherpix2.html

Albert Le

To those anybody that are going (mainly Lion Dance team members) to the Mountain View Asian Heritage Parade. If you have extra members, we need volunteers to do help do a Dragon. Our volunteer has been cut short that day. if anyone in this area gets this email in time. please go to the parade and meet at Castro Street. Look for people in golden pants and red shirts. This would be a big favor for the local mountain view community if anyone can help.

Albert Le

Hey guys...

Just wondering how come the list is so quiet? Is everyone is exam time? I know I am. I'll bring something up maybe to get things rolling... Anyonw know why We do 3 bows? I know the reason for bowing it self, but why 3 times? How about 9 times for an altar??

Jason.

Good question. I used to know this and now have forgotten.

Some general knowledge... Following is the "magic box" (I may have the first and last rows reversed)

8 1 6
3 5 7
4 9 2

the important thing is the 3-5-7 in the middle. Dr. Hu talked about this being the "perfect" number combination. He went on to say that any "sophisticated" chinese scholar would not require the entire line to be recited and understanding an abbreviation would put you in the "In" crowd. This is where we get the 3-7 combination in lion dance. could the 3 come from this?

More likely, the 3 comes from 3 being a perfect number signifying heaven, earth and man. That's why the gangsters are called triads. The 3 combination is used a lot, not just for bows. In fact, if 3 is not used, it is incomplete.

To add to the questions, why is it always left, right and center for the 3s? Finally, how are 9 bows performed? I had not heard of that one.

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

Whoa... That just blew right by the top of my head. hehehe. What's this magic box? And how is the number 3 considered the perfect number? Yeah, that's a good question too... why is it leftm, right, center?? maybe the rest of the list can wake up and shed some light on to this. =) The 9 bows is usually played for altars. The lion gets down onto it's knees. The drum play three small rolls and the lion bows with it's head 3 times. The left, right, center part doesn't play a part here. The lion slowly gets up as the drum plays lightly. Then the three small bows are played again, and so on... 3 times, which ends up to be 9 bows. Does anyone else have any other renditions of this?? Jason

We only do 9 bows for our sen say party for honoring the past masters of the school, and do 3 full bows to the ancestor table, si-gung's table, and Kuan Gong table (9 in total), in that order, not left, right, center. Probably just depends on whatever your school's preference is. It was funny to see the magic box in here again.. we studied it a bit in acupuncture too.

In a message dated 5/15/00 7:28:52 PM, bigjay@total.net writes:
>3 times, which ends up to be 9 bows.

we usually do the second set of three bows opposite of the altar and toward the entry way. which is considered a bow to the god of heaven (Tian Gong) then a final bow to the altar again and backing out. Does that sound correct.

Doc

Sorry for the wide distribution but does anyone on the list know of a team who could do a lion dance for a wedding on August 26, 2000, around 12:45pm in Livermore, California?

It's a little far for our team to do.

Stephen

WE might be able to do it. Can you give me more information?

Si Si

our group maybe able to do it. email westcoastlion@hotmail.com or call my sifu Anthony Shiu at 650 994-6823. We're located in Daly City and our group name is the West Coast Lion Dance Troupe. You can look us up under the group directory. Tell him Eric sent you.

Hi Jason,

The magic box is used in Chinese numerology which is related to many things chinese. (Feng Shui, Acupuncture, Medicine, I-Ching, etc)

I'm not sure about 3 being a perfect number but I remember hearing that. Again, related to heaven, earth and man.

I've never seen the alter bow performed as you described. Like Geoff said, we do three bows to all "areas of note" (altars, dignitaries, Kuan Gungs, etc) So if there were 3 areas, that would be 9 bows. The left, right,center is per area. The order of the areas would either be from highest to lowest order of respect or in order of approach.

We also don't bow to the entry as doc had mentioned. (Doc, can you explain that more? is it only if there is an altar or all entry ways. And do you do it coming in or once you are inside?)

Finally, the one area that is different is a statue or symbol of Buddha. In this case, the lion will go into a very low stance and eventually kneel. Then the head does a motion that looks like 3 small bows but is really symbolizing the lion listening to Buddha's teachings. This is to respect our Shaolin roots.

To ask a question, what do you in a kitchen and with cash registers?

Stephen

Try contacting Loong Mah Sing See Wui (Check the Lions Cave for contact info). I think they'll do it If not, I'll see if my team can do it, but totally sure because I don't think we have that kind of transportation by August. Contact them first, come to us as a last resort.

Albert Le