>To ask a question, what do you in a kitchen and with cash registers?

We lick the doors to the kitchen before entering, bow three times, then back out. Sometimes, but pretty rarely, there is a smaller cheng in the kitchen (with or without lisee) for the lion.

Cash registers we also lick if the owner requests it, otherwise we leave them alone.

One time at the grand opening of a restaurant the owner asked us to do the three bows at every single table in the place--that got tedious pretty quickly...

We also lick the main doors before entering through them, as well as the sign above the doorway with the store/restaurant name on it. I've seen other teams "scratch" up against the doors instead of licking them--does anyone know if there any difference in symbolism between the two?

We usually do three bows to the door, and then three bows to any altars or Gwan GUng in the restaurant, and also to the kitchen. Althought I have never really asked about why specifically those places. I have heard something about the cash register before but we rarely bow to it or do anything to it. WE have never done 9 bows before. That's interesting. I should ask my Sifu about that.

Si Si

Do you guys lick or bite the doors? We bite doors sometimes, but usually only during grand opening events, starting at the bottom on one side, and 'bite' the doors open around to the other side.

g

Our lion dance club/team always bites the door when entering as well as leaving. It doesn't matter what type/kind of event it is. The lion must always show respect and is very cautious before entering an unknown place. Usually, we bite the doors twice/make two half circles around the perimeter.

>We lick the doors to the kitchen before entering, bow three times, then
>back out. Sometimes, but pretty rarely, there is a smaller cheng in the
>kitchen (with or without lisee) for the lion.

We were taught to lick/bite any door way we pass through. When we bow to the kitchen, there's usually a cheng there... which is a case of drinks... or food for the dancers.

>Cash registers we also lick if the owner requests it, otherwise we leave
>them alone.

We've always bowed 3 times to the cash registers and the kitchens. That's where all the prosperity of the resturant or store is. Kitchen, How they make their money, and then the register, where they keep it. Blessing it in both places keeping all the supersitions in line and bad luck away.

>One time at the grand opening of a restaurant the owner asked us to do the
>three bows at every single table in the place--that got tedious pretty
>quickly...

hehehe, we've gotten burnt like that too. It was a grand openeing of a resturant and the owners had put emtpy lysee, (red evelopes) on each table for the customers to put money in if they wanted too. Needless to say everyone did. We had to bow three times and then take the lysee, AFTER the 3 attempts, then bow 3 times again. After the 10th ot 11th table, the drum was finally played faster, and everything went a bit quicker. Oh yeah, did I mention that this was the grad opening of the biggest dim sum resturant in the whole city? =) We worked hard that day.

Jason

Hi all,

Just wondering is there any routine you guys doing before eating lysee? When the owner put the green on the ground, on a table or hang it on.

I was hoping the simple question would start a good discussion.

Here's what we do. No right no wrong but I will add WHY we do certain things.

Doors: Doors/openings should be tested upon entering. As BK Louie stated, Lions are cautious. This applies to the chang as well. Our testing consists of left, right center and we have different routines we can use. the test can be biting. It can also be pawing, sniffing, licking or a combination. Key to remember is to test above the door (inside) to check if something might fall on your head.

Cash Registers: We always bow to the registers. As Jason said, it's where the money is kept and the bows are a blessing. These are the short bows. Again, left-right-center. From a tradition perspective, this is a requirement. Some real traditional people will put a chang here. You need to be creative in getting it. If there are multiple money places, you can chose the "most important" or do them all.

Kitchens: every restaurant should have the lion enter the kitchen. We don't bow to the kitchen as there isn't technically anything to bless. (you don't bless the kitchen equipment because it doesn't contain money or deities) From a traditional view, the lion is in the kitchen to chase away evil and bring good. Some kitchens will have dieties (kitchen God or other statues, alters, etc), we bow to those. We also test the entrance to the kitchen just like the front door.

Other notes:

- Why do people bow to a door? Is that every door or just the main entrance? I think it should only be testing. (just my experience)
- When do you scratch up on things? We don't do this. Master Siow said it used around poles. Does anyone do this? (Circle then scratch)
- Before entering any building, always look for altars or deities. Missing bows to these is considered bad luck. (asking for their wrath)
- Exiting the main entrance MUST be backwards. This I'm pretty sure of. You don't want to "show your rear" to the establishment. I've never heard of bowing or testing/biting on the way out.
- I'll talk about Laysee in the next thread.

Comments? Great discussion so far.

Stephen

Hello - this is Brandon. I had just recently purchased a red and black lion head. After I bought it and got home, I changed my mind. I am not sure if anyone out there is looking for a lion head but if so...contact me by e-mail at BKLouie@aol.com. I bought it for $950 but am willing to go as low as $600 for it. Below, I will list specific details/features for the head.

*has ne'er been used in tournaments on performances
 *nothing is damaged or broken as far as I am concerned
  *inside the head there is a cell box which make the eyes light up
   *make out of bamboo
    *includes a long black & red tail
     *also includes two pairs of matching black and red pants
      *very sturdy and durable
       *all adult lions come in three sizes: 1, 2, and 3. This lion is size three which is the largest
        *two handles are placed inside the lion head which make it easy to hold

You are asking, in a way, what are the different puzzles. There are so many and many I don't know. I hear that it's a dying tradition.

Some of the basics are (in the Hung Gar tradition) 3 approaches. Each needs to be different. It can vary but we use the following guideline. First approach is curiosity. Second is guarded (make sure no one is in contention). Third is eating.

One question I have with Lysee in general, if someone is "feeding" the lion. (ie. holding the lysee) what is the protocol in getting it. Someone said they bow before and after and have 3 approaches. That sounds like a lot for hand held. We usually just approach in low stance and 3 bows afterwards. Sometimes the holder will make the lion work like chasing or holding very high. In this case, you need to do something creative.

What are your experiences?

Stephen

>- Why do people bow to a door? Is that every door or just the main entrance?
> I think it should only be testing. (just my experience)

We've never really bowed to a door itself. Maybe you would if there was a "bak quah", the little green and red hexagon with the round mirror in the middle, but I'm not too sure. I think it would make sense bowing to the main entrance of a place.

>- When do you scratch up on things? We don't do this. Master Siow said it
> used around poles. Does anyone do this? (Circle then scratch)

We do this sometimes, especially when we encounter the 2 big Marble Lions on either side of an entrance or door. That's another thing I wanted to ask. Does anyone have a routine or protocol when meeting these? It isn't really scatching when around poles. It's more like pushing the poles (bridge). You have to keep in mind that the Lion is looking for food, and is very cautious, and is looking out for traps. So by in a way pushing or nudging the poles, it's checking if it's sturdy and safe.

>- Exiting the main entrance MUST be backwards. This I'm pretty sure of.
> You don't want to "show your rear" to the establishment. I've never heard
> of bowing or testing/biting on the way out.

Yeah, you're supposed to leave an establishment backwards, rear first. Even though the lion is there to bless it, it's disrespectful to show your rear on your way out. I don't think it's nessesary to bite the door on your way out, however, we do bow 3 times on the way out. We were tuaght that the most important thing when doing any kind of routine, is to do 3 bows at the begining and at the end.

>You are asking, in a way, what are the different puzzles.
>There are so many and many I don't know. I hear that it's a dying
>tradition.

I was wondering, What are the puzzles you guys know?

>One question I have with Lysee in general, if someone is "feeding" the
>lion. (ie. holding the lysee) what is the protocol in getting it.
>Someone said they bow before and after and have 3 approaches. That
>sounds like a lot for hand held. We usually just approach in low stance
>and 3 bows afterwards. Sometimes the holder will make the lion work
>like chasing or holding very high. In this case, you need to do something
>creative.

3 bows before and after is a bit much, but that's the way we were taught. But you do have to keep in mind, that everything is still about respect. I think it would be appropreate to do 3 bows either before or after, but I don't think it'd be too good to not do them at all... eat and run, if you will.

In a message dated 5/17/00 3:09:38 PM, Stephen.Chew@broadvision.com writes:
>left-right-center

not necessarily so when bowing to the entrance, three bows can be directed at the door. when bowing to a large crowd or wide entrance like a building then left right center would do.

dr.

>Are you saying if you bow to an alter for instance, you
>do all three bows straight on?

Bowing to alters we sometimes do long bows (complete with backing up) or short bows almost as you described (left cat, right cat, left cat instead of horse to left cat stances). Long bows are always done left-right-center. It depends on the size and prominence of the alter.

When bowing to a person handing out lisee it really depends on the situation. The usual and most preferable for us is to do a single cautious approach with one testing before the snatch and then 3 quick bows. If there's room we may do the one described above, but most often it is from any stable stance and just bows from the head rotating the side we start from.

Sometimes this is more elaborate if the person is one that likes to have fun or if we want to show off in front of them. :) A lot of times in restaurants there isn't a lot of time or room so it's just take the money with no special approach and three nods of the head. I hope that isn't too disrespectful.

I remember one time we did a show for a lo-fan retirement center and the little old ladies were literally lined up about twenty or so deep for each of our three lions to feed them and all they wanted to do was throw the lisee into the lion's mouth and run away shrieking. They didn't understand if we closed the mouth or paused to bow. One of my friends was standing there with the mouth open and one of the ladies threw about 15 envelopes into the mouth at once. Since he couldn't catch them all they just fell straight out of the bottom of the lion. We still get a good laugh remembering him trying to pick them up off of the floor and all the while more people still throwing lisee at him. All that to say this: traditional shows are fine for people who want/expect/can handle them, but sometimes you just gotta go with the flow of the audience.

Oh yeah, in regards to doors we usually only test the main entrance, kitchen door, and any major doors--like a moon gate or entrance to main sections. For instance we would do the entrance to a banquet room inside of a restaurant, but if we were in a tong house we would not go down the hallway and test every door before entering.

Our testing is licking the left door post from the bottom up and then across the top, then drop and do the same for the right doorpost, drop down to a low horse and then the head shoots inside and looks left and right before walking in. I say licking instead of biting because the mouth is held fully open and the head makes motions like a cat cleaning itself, rather than flapping the mouth as I've seen other groups do.

Okay, this is getting too long, I should go. It's been interesting hearing from everybody!

Chris

> But you do have to keep in mind, that everything is still
> about respect. I think it would be appropreate to do 3 bows
> either before or after, but I don't think it'd be too good to not
> do them at all... eat and run, if you will.

I agree it's about respect. We bow after we get fed. Doing so much bowing becomes almost like begging. (I think)

My experiences are in line with Chris's post.

Stephen

> Yeah, you're supposed to leave an establishment backwards, rear first. Even
> though the lion is there to bless it, it's disrespectful to show your rear
> on your way out. I don't think it's nessesary to bite the door on your way
> out, however, we do bow 3 times on the way out. We were tuaght that the

Yeah, once you bite tht doors open, there's no reason to open them again.

g

> Bowing to alters we sometimes do long bows (complete with backing up) or
> short bows almost as you described (left cat, right cat, left cat instead
> of horse to left cat stances). Long bows are always done left-right-center.
> It depends on the size and prominence of the alter.

I'm not sure what you mean by left-right-center. Do you mean turning the head at 45' left and right to center? We only do the long bows to the center ( three straight ahead). The only time we do short bows is when we bow the heads when taking the heads out/in of the school to do an event and loading them into a van.

> When bowing to a person handing out lisee it really depends on the
> situation. The usual and most preferable for us is to do a single cautious
> approach with one testing before the snatch and then 3 quick bows. If

When we do a presentation of a banner to a VIP, then we approach in a low stance slowly, looking down, then when we get close, look slowly up and pass the banner. Then the head goes back down and we do several short hops back, then the drummer plays chut-sing and we go up and down right-left-right with one leg crossing behind the other when the head going up (I don't know what that's called!)

> I remember one time we did a show for a lo-fan retirement center and the
> little old ladies were literally lined up about twenty or so deep for each
> of our three lions to feed them and all they wanted to do was throw the
> lisee into the lion's mouth and run away shrieking. They didn't understand
> if we closed the mouth or paused to bow... you just gotta go with the flow of the
> audience.

Lo-Fan??? Who you calling lo-fan! Ha ha. That's right! You never know what's going to happen, so you gotta improvise sometimes. Like when they don't tie up the cheung well enough and it falls down.. you gott make something up!

> kitchen door, and any major doors--like a moon gate or entrance to main

What's a moon gate?

> sections. For instance we would do the entrance to a banquet room inside of
> a restaurant, but if we were in a tong house we would not go down the

That would take a while! Luckily the tong alters are usually by the front doors.

> before walking in. I say licking instead of biting because the mouth is
> held fully open and the head makes motions like a cat cleaning itself,
> rather than flapping the mouth as I've seen other groups do.

You're right, that seems like licking, not biting!

g

> You are asking, in a way, what are the different puzzles.
> There are so many and many I don't know. I hear that it's a dying
> tradition.

Stephen,

Last time I saw the cool puzzles were when they used to have a lion dance competitions at the kung-fu tournaments in Vancouver, BC, Canada. I think that ended around 5-7 years ago though. These weren't the Malaysian style lion dances, they were the traditional ones, with teeter-totters, rolling on a pot, etc.. they were great! I wish we could still see those. Someone wrote earlier about the ba-gua cheung, which sounded very cool.

g

Hi guys,

Just wondering which puzzles do you know of?? How you solve them, and are there any specific moves or routines you use.... I'm just curious how other schools do it. Don't know the exact names of them but the ones with:

-8 chairs with a water cheng in the middle
-benches with a see-saw.
-seven star. (7 oranges with a chng in the middle) We've encountered one with cans of coke instead of oranges.

Also... Has anyone ever came across a watermelon, coconut and lychee? We have, a couple of years back. We were totally stumped so we improvised. The store owner said that it was very well done... I guess we did it right! Are sifu was pretty impressed too, because he hadn't taught us how to approch or pick up thoes chengs yet.

Jason

>> Long bows are always done left-right-center.
>I'm not sure what you mean by left-right-center.

We never do three long bows straight ahead to the center. If you think of it as the lion being on a stage it will start in the middle facing the audience. The drum will play a roll (sorry, we're all third generation and later so we always used English terms and never learned the Chinese) and the lion will raise its head and rush forward to the front left corner of the stage then the head will drop and the lion will back up to its starting point. The drum will roll again and the lion will raise its head and rush to the front right of the stage then the head will drop and the lion will back up again. The third bow is straight ahead to the center. For the most part I always thought these were generally understood to be the traditional opening and closing bows.

>Lo-Fan??? Who you calling lo-fan! Ha ha.

No offense intended--I use terms like that as a description, not as a slam. :)

>What's a moon gate?

The doorway that looks like a big semi-circle.

Hope that clarifies some stuff in my post,

Chris

> benches with a see-saw.

I saw that at a lion dance at a kung fu tournament in Vancouver BC about 9 years ago or so. I don't remember how it goes.. dang.. I was too new back then and wasn't too sure what was going on.

> seven star. (7 oranges with a chng in the middle) We've encountered one with cans of coke instead of oranges.

My si-hing's told me of one like this. I don't know how it goes, but they said you have to walk around on top of the cans. I don't know if the lion would drink them afterwards!

g

Hey all

Has anyone ever "kicked" the head up while the lion is on the ground lying flat? For example, before a performance the lion head is on the ground, tail laid flat out, and dancers do some bow before they get in the lionhead. They kick up the lionhead and catch it. Anyone know how to do this??

Tim

I've seen it done before but I don't see the reson why you would want to risk damaging your equipment. This is only a guess.... When you start off having your lion head on the floor, it isn't really laid flat. Well, the way you usually have it on the floor is lying on the bottom of the mouth, so that the head is making a 45 degee angle. So i guess you would slip you foot under the space between the bottom of the mouth and the rim of the head. I wouldn't suggest this. Not only does it have a chance of putting a hole in the head, but it'll probably make someone look very unprofessional.

Jason

Well in our basic routine, we usually play an intro first than we do a salute followed by both dancers picking up the head. The head is laying down as Jason had suggested but instead of "kicking" the head up you use your foot to gently "lift" it up. You're supposed to tilt the head first grab the handle of which ever side you're on and use your foot to kick the other handle up so the lion looks like it's being elevated in a quicker fashion. Jackie Chan does it in his move the Young Master.