it's not really kicked up, but actually lifted up with the foot. like if you're entering the head from the left, you'd lift the head up just a bit, the right leg gets under it on the right side right and then lift the head up with the left hand pulling up at the same time. the dancer gets under it and catches the right handle with the right hand. never kick your 'work of art'.

dr. chang

> never kick your 'work of art'.
Exactly.

It's funny.. I just bought that movie and never saw it before. It was a $7 usd DVD at the fred meyer's by my house! Cool. The lion dance was interesting because I've seen mostly the malaysian style dancing lately. In the young master I could hear the traditonal sounding 2-5 and chut sing drum beats and the salute going under the head with the cartwheel, and it was a southern lion, not a half-northern half-southern. I'm sure that it's similar as in kung fu where each school has a special twist on their own salute.

g

Thanx for the info.

Yea, I got the lift up of head from Young Masters. Guess I didn't look at it hard enough. I knew you slip a foot underneath and lift it up, somehow, just look like they lift/throw the lionhead up in the air, then catch it.

Anyone know some good props to use in a liondance performance? Something that could be easy to make and not too much $$? I've done simple benches, baskets, tables...I want to try the poles they usually use for competitions. Can you make them out of wood? Or is it better steel?

Thanx,
-Tim

>Anyone know some good props to use in a liondance performance? Something
>that could be easy to make and not too much $$? I've done simple benches,
>baskets, tables...I want to try the poles they usually use for competitions.
>Can you make them out of wood? Or is it better steel?

You can make stackable boxes. Kind of like thoes plastic milk crates but just a bit bigger. Poles are more harder to build than to train on. If you havn't been train formally on them, but you still want to try it out, I suggest you build a small one. I do warn you that it isn't as cheap as you think it is, unless you have the right connections to people who can sell you supplies for a better price. Small, I mean as in maybe 3 or 3 and a half feet off the ground. We have a stage (poles) that's about 3 and half feet off the ground that the guys who are starting off use to train, and then they gradually use the higher ones. They're all made of wood. Personally, I think it looks nicer made from wood, not only for looks, the wood is lighter to carry around, rather then metal pipes. Aslo, construction wise, its easier to use wood, pipes aren't as sturdy and it's more difficult to fasten to the main floor frame, unless they're soldered down. As for the metal plates on the tops of the poles, I think they were specially cut. Another thing, It's easier to build the poles, as in how they're placed, then think of a routine. And always keep in mind... Practice makes perfect. be sure to ***always*** line the stage with blue mats!!! And for practice purposes, we've got "L" bars on the insides (the side of the pole that faces the other pole) on the poles, We place boards in the spaces inbetween the poles, so if we should fall, we'll just land on the boards. We try not to use them, because we don't want to rely on them.

Hope this helps,

Jason

can someone explain how do we train for the head to jump on the shoulders of the tail? Please explain the technique. Does the tail necessarily have to be a very strong person? How does the tail person train to hold the head person on his shoulder for so long without tiring or back giving out? Starting from the basics...how does one go about. Thanks!

doc d. chang

yah that's one technique besides the flips and stacked jumps into a full body roll that I would like to learn.

I don't think some of those competition lion dancers are even human, with some of the things they're doing...

If you read the archives, I've posted a long detailed description of a suggested jumping technique.

Jason

> jumping on to the tail's hips/front of thigh

how do they do that on those shiny silky pants and not slip?

d. chang

You got to learn to how to jump and sit on to the head first. The head has to jump as high he can. The tail lifts the heads as high as he can just before the head reaches peak hieght and guides the heads butt onto his/her own head.then you move your feet on the shuolder. the tail holds on to your feet and you stand. The tail does not need to be a very strong person. I can do this( the shoulder and the head thing) and I'm very skinny and not very strong. I'm a High Schooler that's 120 and 5'7''. It depends on who they lift. Tails should lift people lighter to nearly the same weighted people. Anymore can severly hurt your back. For me, I think it's more mental than physical ability.

Albert Le

You can try starting by jumping on to the tail's hips/front of thigh when the tail is in a low horse stance, then doing another jump from there onto the shoulders. Be careful comming down though.. you can shuffle slowly down the tail's chest with your feet

g

How can anyone possibly slip while wearing running shoes?

the seven star one is called "chut sing bune yuet"in cantonese you have to zigzag the out side perimiter objects, then eat the perimiter object through numbers of objects 1357246 that means you have to skip every other object

> wearing running shoes?

got me wondering....what's the appropriate type of shoes to wear? i think with running shoes with the treads and all it could get a bit irritating on the shoulders and thighs.

doc

it's almost impossible to do so. You can stay on for a while if the lap is very parallel to the ground only.

ALbert Le

> how do they do that on those shiny silky pants and not slip?

Oh... we use the old style cotton pants (elastic or fold-over types). Otherwise, if your horse stance is low enough, you won't slip because the thighs will be parellel to the ground.

g

We usually use kung fu boots for demos, or black wrestling shoes if we are doing a lot of walking outdoors. Both are quite a bit softer than tennis shoes.

should the head person practice jumping with ankle weights on their own first in order to develope the ability to jump lightly? and should the tail person do weight training, like curls to develope arms muscle?

d. chang

Hi All,

Those things will help but is not necessary.

We have a head that cannot jump very high on his own but can do the stunt and as someone said, he was not very big and can lift. (all our tails, however, are strong people)

The key is the timing. As the head jumps up, the tail uses the momentum to continue the head to the top. It's the same as the 180 degree jump on a bridge or from pole to pole.

I have a question, do you guys actually land with the butt on the (tails) head? We land on the upper chest with the feet and the butt is near the head but doesn't land on it. After landing on the chest, we'll sit on the head to get the feet up to the shoulders.

Also, when you land on the thighs, do you land with feet parallel to the thighs? We land with the feet almost perpendicular to the things where the hip bends with the legs. This prevents the sliding someone asked about.

Stephen

>land with the butt on the (tails) head?

.....yeah...wouldn't the butt landing on the head be kinda dangerous and risking neck injury to the tail guy?

d.chang

Matching pants nowadays only have decorative patterns (sequins with fur, etc) up to the knee or mid thigh. Above the decorations, the pants are basic material and not silky for better grip (and since people discovered that stacking usually messes up the decorated parts of the pants anyway). Master Siow's pants are like these. As for the silky kung fu pants, I couldn't recommend anything to fix that problem.

Willy

Usually we do three small 'hops' without leaving the ground, and on the third do the real jump, you just go down and up like you are going to jump, without jumping. It helps a lot to get the rythm and jump timed right. The front guy doesn't have to jump too hard and the back guy doesn't have to lift too hard. Of course, exercises will help! I doubt curls will help the tail, the biceps may not be too useful for the lifting. Pull-ups and push ups might be a lot better.

g

Here's an idea. Strap your sash around the punching bag and practice lifting that. You have to bring the object in towards your chest when lifting. Your body center and the head player's body center is important.

Head players should practice jumping in one spot. Jump straight up and land in the same spot. Key is to jump sraight up - by bringing your knees toward your chest and keeping your head up. Hands should not fly up, but should stay steady overhead as if holding the head. Many head players are worried about where they will land. You can not look down at your landing because as soon as you look down, your head tilt will tip you forward. As head player, the straighter you keep your body center, the easier it is for the head player to "place" you where he wants.

Sherman

I think running shoes are the best way to go. Although I do know a few guys who use training shoes. They're very thin shoes with a rubber sole.

Jason

Hey guys.

Here's the exact posting I posted a while back about jumping.... Hope it helps!!

-------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:22:53 -0400
From: Jason Lee
Subject: Re: [LionDance] Non-member submission from[Ninja B0Y]

>How do you jump higher?

Jumping higher doesn't always rely on the person playing the head. The tail plays a big role as well. One of the most important things the tail must do, is keep his hands on the sash of the guy playing the head. When you jump as the head, you have to think of it as being a spring. You have to crouch down all the way with your legs together, almost having your butt touch the floor. Jump and then extend all the way. This is where the tail comes in. The tail player should already have his hands on your sash. As you jump, the tail player should be following your momentum on your way up. Once you get to the peak of your jump, the tail player has all of your momentum and he should be able to extend his arms above his head. At this point you, the head, should have your legs tucked in. (almost like your knees to your chest.) There are many different variations of how you can jump or stack, it's just the matter of how you feel comfortable jumping and landing. for example, You can jump and the tail player steps up and you land on his thighs. 2, You can jump and lean back so you land on the thighs. or 3, you can jump and lean back and the tail player steps forward and meets you half way. Another inportant thing is syncronism and timing. You've gotta have good timing in order to land everything properly and for it to look nice.

>The problem is when I land, I kind of land too far forward.

Too forward meaning... your whole body is leaning forward?? there are a few possible reasons for this. 1, you're not jumping strait, but more with a forward angle. you should either be jumping strait up and down or maybe leaning back a little bit. Oh yeah, they best place to land on the tail's thigh is higher on the thigh muscle it self, almost near the hips.

>What I noticed of alot of groups in the competitions is that they grab
>them just by the waist side.

They're usually holding the sash. if you see the tail player's fingers around the head's waists, the tail player's thumbs are underneath the sash. There are different ways to hold the sash, but I find that way the most effective.

>Also, what's a good way to suggest to my
>partner that Im ready to jump? Saying "Ready" while the music is playing
>doesn't seem to be too effective.

What we usually do is, the head twitches his waist signaling the tail that he's ready to jump. The tail would respond by tighting his grip on the sash and twitching the head player's waist that he's aslo head for the jump. the tail player should have his hands on the sash most of the time, unless you're at the point of the routine where it doesn't require and jumping.) After the tail twitches the waist of the head, there is a "primer" jump (a jump strait up in the air before the actual jump). Then it is followed by the jump that's supposed to take place.

>They're very thin shoes with a rubber sole.

i often see Yau Kung Mun and White Crane just wear those thin rubber sole shoes with canvas tops from China. YKM even does a wire act with the lion head with those shoes on. Maybe they put resin on those wires or something.

d. chang

We had a sifu from HK who teaches young kids (elementary school age) and he recommends simple canvas flat shoes like "keds". Most of the time, when you see the shoes covered with the fur and toes, they are very simple "keds"-type shoes. We use mat wrestling shoes from Asics.

Sherman

>i often see Yau Kung Mun and White Crane just wear those thin rubber sole
>shoes with canvas tops from China. YKM even does a wire act with the lion
>head with those shoes on. Maybe they put resin on those wires or something.

It wouldn't make sense if they put resin on the wire. Chances are that it would stick to the bottom of thier shoes, then drag it along everywhere, pole, to pole, then you'd get resin on the pants. There's no trick involved in wire acts, just alot od co-ordination and balance.

>canvas flat shoes like "keds"

these shoes are made in China and go by the brand names: warrior, butterfly, jinbu

d. chang

MY group and other groups(like Yau Kung Moon, and White Crane) jump onto the tail's head. And for low stances, we land perpendicular.

Albert Le

Did you ever get any problems with the tail having to support all the weight on his head? where are the feet at this point?

thanks,

Stephen

It's a combo of the tail's head and his arms holding him up and stable. the most important thing for all the stunts is a belt of some kind(sash, karate belt, pant belts). This makes the stunts much more easier. some of the weight is supported by this. The most problem we have with this stunt is the feet hitting the tail in the face, & ear. the feet should be moved away from the face. either make your legs straight or do a splits(other things can also be done). doing this gives a place for the head to go on the butt and keeps the heads feet aways from the tails head.

Albert Le

The ones I know of are called "Macho".

>I have a question, do you guys actually land with the butt
>on the (tails) head? We land on the upper chest with the feet and
>the butt is near the head but doesn't land on it. After landing
>on the chest, we'll sit on the head to get the feet up to the shoulders.

Hold on a sec... It doesn't seem to make much sense. The head player jumps in the air, and then lands on the chest of the tail player? How is that possible? There's no angle on the chest for that, unless the tail player is leaning back at a 45 degee angle. And that's alot of weight for the chest to support.

We do it a far simpler way, but can you elaborate?? I'm curious of how other people do it.

Jason

Hi all, this is replying Jason's mail before :

>-8 chairs with a water cheng in the middle
>-benches with a see-saw.

I'd like to learn more about the 8 chairs and benches, could you tell me what equipment do we need and how the plays go? Thanks for answering.

My team has a play on chairs, plucking the green. The other kind of "plucking" we have is "drunken master". But I think they are common to be done, huh?

care,

Vela

>And that's alot of weight for the chest to support.

It's not really the chest. More like the chest below the shoulder. There's a natural curve there. I didn't want to say shoulder because it's definitely not straight there. There's a little step required.

We do much like albert says, use the belt to lift and hold. The upper chest is just a place to lay the feet to stabalize. We tried it on the head like albert said but our tails complained that it was easier on the chest. For the head it didn't really matter because it was the tails that placed them.

> We do it a far simpler way, but can you elaborate?? I'm
> curious of how other people do it.

Please explain yours.

Stephen

>It's not really the chest. More like the chest below the shoulder.
>There's a natural curve there. I didn't want to say shoulder because
>it's definitely not straight there. There's a little step required.

So, you mean right under the collar bone? The head will jump and land with his feet there?

>Please explain yours.

Well... Like any jump, we do 3 primer hops. On the third one, the head couches down compressing the legs to get maximum jump height. The tail crouches down with the head. On the way back up, the tail takes a small step forward, while the head places one leg on the tail's shoulder. So on the way up it gives the impression that the head is raising on one leg, when it's just really the head following the momentum, and then at the peak, the head will put his other leg down on the other shoulder.

Jason

i've seen the head jump up and the foot kind of rests on the chest with toes pointed down. the tail is doing most of the support with his arms. they usually don't hold it too long unless the head is sitting on the tail guy's head. they use this a lot to have the head jump foward. The tail sort of throws the head guy foward and the head guy pushes off with his foot on the chest at the same time. so it appears.

d. d. chang