Recently, my friend purchased a lion head from San Francisco for me. It wasn't quite the right style I was looking for. So now I want to sell it to anybody who is interested. The mouth is shaped like a duck bill and it's from Singapore. It is an adult lion, size #2. It's a little different from most lions because of it's unique design. The whole lion is rainbow colored including the tail. Pants aren't included seeing that I have none. The lion head as well as the tail are new and haven't been used. The import company my friend purchased it from only sold lions w/long tails so this one has a long tail. My friend told me he spent $695 on the head and tail. I am selling it for $500 plus shipping and handling charges. If interested, please e-mail me. I am located in Sacramento, CA. Thanx alot!!!

Hi Si Si,

>Like the ones on the website, how would those be approached? I would like
>to learn more about puzzles just in case we ever encounter one. Is there a
>common approach to most puzzles, or are they all completely different?

I don't there there's a set routine for each kind of puzzle. Everyone has been taught a different way but basicaly it's mostly the same. I guess the on thing most puzzles have in common are the different approches, depending on the puzzle. For example, The seven stars is the most common. It's the one with seven oranges sourrounding a cheng in the middle. The way we were taught was to approch each of the oranges differently. Apposed to many other groups I've seen perform this puzzle, we don't pick up the oranges and spit them out in three parts. We pick it up and slice the orange and place it back down so it looks like a flower. We have a very small x-acto knife. the key chain type ones, where you push the blade out and then it retracts automatically. We slice the orange peel four times, not cutting all the way around it, We leave the bottom part intact, so that when you peel it you get five sections (five leaves). Then we seperate each orange slice leaving the bottom intact as well, so the orange slices are attatched to the peel. We do this for every orange, I forgot exactly what this symbolizes. After that's done we go for the cheng in the middle. This routine usualy takes us around 15 mins. There's a whole bunch more, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. There are a few on that website that I've never seen before, like the one with the rice bowls turned upside down.

hope this helps,

Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the info. So when you get the oranges, do you get one then split it then set it down again before you go for another one? Also, does this have to be done in a particular order, and where are the split oranges placed?

Thanks,

Si Si

Hey Si Si,

Yeah, you get one at a time... Hehehe, it'd be too difficult to collect all of them, slice them then put them back down. The order is, 1,3,5,7,2,4,6, in other words, every second one. Once you pick one up, slice it, then put it back down on the same spot. The drum should be a constant roll, or whatever you usually play for eating.

Jason

Thanks Jason. Um is 1 starting from the left of the lion to the right or the other way around? SOrry about all these questions.

Si Si

You go clockwise, from the top of the cheng.

Jason

Hello everyone, I know someone answered this question before, but I wanted to hear from you all have to say. Is it bad luck to dance in a mixed lion, i.e. male tail and female head? I saw an old tape of the Tat Mau Wong lion dance competition and there was actually a mixed lion team in there. My group dances mixed lions but Im the only who refuses to.

At my kung fu school, my sifu really does actually wish that some girls would dance in the lion dance and I think he would allow mixed lions, but unfortunately not many girls are interested and he would actually prefer to have a girl/girl lion or boy/boy lion instead of a mixed, it just seems right.

I don't know if it's bad luck, but inappropriate more likely. It's fine for a line to be all guys or all girls, but not mixed.

g

I don't think it's inappropriate, as long as everyone keeps their professionalism up. We have mixed ballet dances and other cultural dances where men and women mix in very close proximity and nobody says that's inappropriate unless the lines of professionalism are crossed.

Old Chinese traditions have separated male roles and female roles and said that women couldn't even touch the lion for fear of bad luck. We usually give the women in our group a hard time about this but it's all in fun. Chinese tradition also says that women shouldn't learn gung fu either, but where would we be without Wing Chun?

Maybe we're too progressive, but our women do everything our men do. We mix and match all the time and have been doing it for years with no problems.

Chris

We don't mind the mix and match. Happens all the time!!

Certain occassions require women in the lion. We have one temple in town in which the patron saint is a female and we only use girls to play the lion inside the temple.

If you play the lion thinking religiously, women do not play the lion if the have their "menz". This is also the case for participation in most other Chinese religious cerimonies at that time of the month.

Sherman

I have always been told that it's bad. So I always have to have a female tail or else I can't dance.

Si Si

How is that inappropriate??

well, I think if you have one male and one female... it's like a gay lion because the lion is not done by all male or all female. Thats what I always thought.

Si Si

> well, I think if you have one male and one female... it's like a gay lion
> because the lion is not done by all male or all female. Thats what I always
> thought.

LOL!!!! That's definitely brightened up my day! I heard it was bad luck if a girl danced in the lion too, that's why we're usually allocated the instruments, but my Sifu had no problem letting the guys teach me the head... cept that our training lion is a million years old and weighs 100 kg so i couldn't lift it up above my head!

Linda

i asked dr. hu awhile back and he said something like it's like a man and women under the sheets. making a reference to a cuckold which could be disrespectful to the people you're dancing to.

onetime while i was lion dancing, we had a girl playing a buddha head. perhaps by instinct, i can't help but to sniff her butt with the lion head. kinda turned me on too.....

DD chang

Regarding this topic, let's refer to the International Lion and Dragon Dance Association for protocol. There was a great all-female team from China in 1998, but no mixed lions in competition.

I feel that there are 'romantic' connotations to mixed dancing of any sort - lovers on the ice rink, the tango, the lambada!, ballet, etc. Doc is right, mixed pairs suggest male/female sexual innuendo in my opinion. It's a common theme in the dance world, which we have to realize that lion dance is a part of, too. So I think it's better for the lion dance to leave those connotations out. I think we should stay away from mixed pairs until we can really sort this issue out.

Willy

Paahhahahahaha.... A gay lion... hehehehe....

Jason

Hi all.

This has nothing to do with Lion dancing but does anyone have a sound file of firecrackers, a midi file of the wong fei hung theme song with the drum beats in the beginning, and also of a dragon roaring? Please send it to me if you do please speedy5151@home.com

Thanks,

Si Si

>Maybe we're too progressive, but our women do everything our men do. We mix

Responding Chris,

I agree with you. I am a girl and I do what the men do, doesn't matter. Eventhough at physical training we're given slightly different porsion. What I'm going to say has nothing to do with bad luck, but in my team a girl and a boy are not allowed to play in the same lion, if that what you mean by "mixed lion". However, when we are practicing, sometimes we have mixed lions, but in a performance? Never. Talking about bad luck, I've just tried to perform 2 lions, one male and one female. That was the first time we did it. I had never fallen 3 times in the same performance, that was the first time ^^ Well, sure it might be a coinsidence, but who knows?

care,

Vela

Cheer for Si Si!
Cheer for Linda!
Cheer for girl lion dancers!!!
hahahaaaaa...

Vela

Hi Si Si,

I havn't really looked for it, but I do know a site that you might find what you're looking for.

http://www.midi.com.hk/traditional.htm

>Cheer for Si Si!
>Cheer for Linda!
>Cheer for girl lion dancers!!!
>hahahaaaaa...

and cheer for girl buddha heads!

Hi Guys,

Personally I have no experience in managing mixed team or even girl team. My team here in Malaysia disallow girls from joining only for the good of the displine of the boys. I personally find that hard to take but in such a immature society/culture as here it may be appropriate. I am not experience enough to comment in the traditional aspect regarding girl teams, but for competetions I do not think that there is anything inappropriate in mixed teams. Personally I do not see anything wrong with it. The times are changing, and it was not long ago when girls were even banned from touching the lion head! Now girls are getting into lion dancing and I think it will be just a matter of time that mix team be common space. The advantage of mixed team (assuming girl in the head and guys in the back)I think is that girls are lighter and more graceful in their movement. Unlike other dances, lion dance is a dance about a sacred animal not about 2 person dancing. In effect when the dancers are doing the lion dance they are that lion, the 2 person symbolise/represent the 1 lion, and only the lion. If an audience does not see the dancers in the lion dance(which they shouldn't), they will not know whether it is a all male/female or mixed team.

George

Malaysia

Hi Jason,

I checked out the site, but it only had 6 files on it, and none I can use. Thanks for the site though. I might be able to use the music in future performances.

Si Si

hehehe... I never really checked it out, someone forwarded the adress to me. And the link I gave you was a link to the traditional section... Did you try looking under the main site??

instead of http://www.midi.com.hk/traditional.htm

maybe http://www.midi.com.hk/ or http://www.midi.com

Jason

>Talking about bad luck, I've just tried to perform 2 lions, one male and one
>female. That was the first time we did it. I had never fallen 3 times in the
>same performance, that was the first time ^^ Well, sure it might be a
>coinsidence, but who knows?

Hi Vela & all,

Sorry to hear about your falls & I hope you're okay, but I don't think they symbolize anything--there are several routines with the northern lions that have both male and female lions dancing together, it should be fine with southern lions as well.

I agree with George--it's a matter of professionalism and maturity. When I play the lion I *AM* the lion--I don't have time to worry about whether my tail is a male or female, my only question is are they representing the lion well. I guess it's really up to the people dancing--if you're going to have thoughts that distract you from performing the lion dance then don't do it.

Just my thoughts,

Chris

>I agree with George--it's a matter of professionalism and maturity. When I
>play the lion I *AM* the lion--I don't have time to worry about whether my
>tail is a male or female, my only question is are they representing the
>lion well. I guess it's really up to the people dancing--if you're going to
>have thoughts that distract you from performing the lion dance then don't
>do it.

I agree with you and George. It is a matter of professionalism and maturity, and you seriously don't have time to be thinging about who's doing your tail. Not only are you representing a lion, but you're representing your school. If you've got thoughts that are going to distract you, it going to show in your routine and performance. Whether these thoughts are of a sexual nature or a sence of insecurity, this should have been delt with before your performance.

Jason.

>Now girls are getting into lion dancing
>The advantage of mixed team (assuming girl in the head and guys in the
>back)I think is that girls are lighter and more graceful in their movement.

Responding George :
Great points! I definitely agree! (^-^)

Vela

Hi just wondering do you guys who have full uniforms buy your "feet" or do you make them? We buy ours, they're usually just cover alls that go on top of the shoes but I was wondering if you can make them. I would like to know what materials are necessary, preferably for a lion with white feet. I think it would look more realistic and creative if I could make my own "feet".

Hi All Lion Dancers from California:

I'm just wondering if anybody from Souther California is leaving from LAX to Malaysia to watch the 2000 Lion Dance Championship Competition. Then, hanging out in Malaysia.

I was thinking of making the pants myself, but have never seen a pair up close, so I don't know what material it is. I don't know what material the feet are. Does anyone have any idea on the pants?

Si Si

Hi people,

I was just wondering.... Can anyone suggest a way we can laquer a lion head? We finally recieved our new heads and beofre we open the eyes and start using them, we want to re-enforce the lion head with a coating of something to harden the paper. There's already a thin layer of something on top of the lazer paper, but we want to add another layer. The problem is, we're not too sure of what to use. Also, I want to know if anyone can suggest a way of holding the fur back away from the lion head to apply the laquer and not to have the fur stick to it while it dries

Does anyone have any experience in this??

Jason.

Si Si,

The material for the pants are, a type of middle weight nylon. the kind with a shiny side and a mat side. For example, for our Gold lion, The pants are a pair of red pants that are made of that nylon material. And from maybe about 10 inches from the waist, there are about 5 tiers of gold sequence fabric, equally spaced that reach to the ankles. These tiers are lined with fur. We have pants for the lion head and different ones for the tail. The pants that the tail wear have more then 10 inches from the waist. Because of all the jumping and stacking, you don't really want the head to land and rip off the fur.

Jason.

Just writing to let everybody know about 2 more lion dance resources I just got. The first one is a lion dance training video produced in 1991 by Sifu Leung Ting from Hong Kong called Elementary Lion Dance. It cost me $20 to rent from Indiana university's Instructional Support Services (I have tha address if anyone else is interested in seeing if they can get it). It was acutally $11.50 for a 3-day rental, but $5.50 for them to ship it to me in California, and $3 for me to send it back to them. The video itself is okay, about on par with Sifu Tat Mau Wong's videos. It starts out with a short explanation of the difference between hoksan and fatsan lions, basic hand and footwork, and basic drumming. I found it interesting, and am glad to have it in my collection, but not really worth the $20.

The second one is an old film (16mm) called "I'm Going to be the Lion's Head" a short (20 min.) movie about a teenager who wants to be the lion's head during the Chinese new year parade in San Franciso. I remember watcing this film during rainy days in elementary school, but nobody else I talk to remembers it. Anyways it was up for auction on eBay and I got it for $10. Now all I need is a 16mm projector, or someone willing to transfer it to video...

There is a section on the Lion's Cave that deals with how to make your own lion claw shoes, the url is:

http://www.oocities.org/lionscave1/Help/Head.html#shoes

it's based on submissions from the email list. Hope this helps you out!

There's a place here that can transfer to tape. I have a 16mm projector (uh... maybe 8mm, I can't remember), but no sound. Actually, maybe a local high school might have an A/V lab with the necessary equipment to do the transfer.. if you know any high school students.

g

wow thanks... that really helps. So the lion pants are actually pants and not just something that you put over your regular pants?

Si Si

Hey thanks for the major info Chris, but any idea on how to make the rest of the shoe? Also, what kind of fur would you guys suggest that I use? The problem is if I perform in the rain (something that's frequent around chinese new year in the Bay Area) the fur will get soaked and the feet will look all...."blah".

Yeah, they're regular pants, but we usualy wear our black kung fu pants underneath them.

Jason

Actually, I have this video. I thought it was pretty good. It's old school footage and I thought it was better then Tat Mau's video because it was very detailed about stances, stepping and drum beats. It's a tough tape to learn from and only covers the basics but it does show the rich culture behind traditional kung fu lion dance.

It's produced by Leung Ting but the the lion dance is from chow Gar and master Kam Wai Kwong

If you didn't think it was worth $20 bucks to rent then you really don't want to know how much it is to own but WLE does sell it.

http://www.wle.com/video_lion.html

Stephen.

I actually own this video and i thought it was quite good apart from the "godzilla movie " like dubbing!! ha ha

Hi Guys,

For those who are intersted, all the WOrld Champs' information is on Genting Highland's Web-site. Check it out!

WWW.GENTING.COM.MY

There are also some good photos and some of the rules used.

George,
Malaysia