Hey Willy,

The drum's really cool. It's pretty big and has some clear finish on the skin. The drum barrel has some synthetic black stuff around it, instead of being painted black. I didn't want to go neon rainbow color, like the more modern drums have, recently.

Quality wise it's a lot better made than the ones you pick up from the fut san Ngok Seng. I'm talking about the generic ones you see in the SF Chinatown stores with the chrysanthemum flowers on the side.

Soundwise, it sounds really bright, with a very high tone. I think that's good, right. I've heard some old broken in drums that sound really flat and just kind of go "Thud"....

Perry

When I was at Yue Wah, I saw heads for as low as $1200 HK. They did include the tail. I think the tail was about $800 HK. They said it included two pairs of pants. These are the typical "Fat San" heads from China. I wasn't too interested at the time so I didn't get more details.

This was also 2 years ago.

Stephen.

hello lion dancers,

i haven't introduced myself yet. my name is Jimmy Cheung i am 15 years old and i live in San Francisco i lion dance with Loong Mah.

while we're on the subject of Master Siow's heads, does anyone have any suggestions for tying those chinese style pants for Siowheads? my partner and i tie them real tight in the beginning, but they always seem to sag after a while. any suggestions?

thanks,
Jimmy

Usually when we do our regular 3 bows, we go left, right, then center. However I noticed that in many of the short 3 bows performed in the competitions, the lions go right, left, right. Why is that?

Hey Jimmy,

My troupe members really don't like the pants, either. Much rather prefer the elastic waistbands...but anyway, this is how we do it. We grab the pants by both hands so you have two ends and bring towards your front (also could be your side, or someone could help you tie in the back, doesn't matter). Then grab the opposite end with each hand (left to right, right to left) and pull tight. Then just start twisting the ends into a huge bun. After the bun is secure, roll the pants down to where you want it. For me it stays pretty tight, as long as you suck in your stomach while you're tying (so it stays tight when you exhale).

It also helps to tie a sash or belt on before you even tie the pants. Just tie the sash over your waist and the pants, then tighten the pants whichever way you prefer to do it. So even if the pants come a little loose, you have a tight sash underneath keeping it all together. Then you tie your real sash over everything so it looks neat. We've been tying the pants so tight that the seams are starting to rip!

On a different note, the world championships are over, right? Anyone have an update? I'd really love to hear how it turned out this time. I thought 1998 was great - hope 2000 can top it.

Willy

Hey Perry,

Thanks for the info. I am getting tired of those generic drums myself. I am really interested in how the drum barrel is finished and protected, since the generic drums often chip and crack. Anyone have any finishing tips for making these drums look nicer?

Willy

Hi guys,

with the infatigable Serhat as a man behind the screens, we were discussing the lists and options of hosting etc....

Serhat proposes to host the list, which could be placed behind it's own domain-name, of course possibly with some web-pages to explain subscribing etc...

Here's the kick: all those actively on the list can participate in the selection of the name.

The most interesting proposition will be chosen (by me and Serhat), just tell me what you'd like, or what it should not be (if there are names that can be interpreted the wrong way or whatnot, but do specify..)

Current propositions (in my personal order of preference):

liondancing.org
liondancing.net
liondance.nl
liondancing.com
What do you think?

We will decide soon (like, tomorrow, 10 am GMT..) so start typing!

Thanks in advance, and thanks to Serhat for creating the possibility,

Rob

Ps if there are no responses, I'll just pick one..:-)
BTW It 'll cost but not much so I'll pay (if ever I get an account in the US I'll let you all pay retroactively..:-)
Probably the most expensive is all the liquor owed to Serhat to pull this off..:-)

>liondancing.org
>liondancing.net

Here's my votes. Thank you Rob and Serhat for the work that you do that benefits so many of us!

Corey

Liondancing.com seems the most universal and easy to remember. On the otherhand, we are not a commercial group so the .org may be more appropriate.

Stephen

Hey your from loong mah? Do you remember me? I'm the guy that help you guys out once in a while whenever I see you guys. I'm the guy with spikey hair.

About the pants, try getting elastic into the wait of the pants.

Albert Le

Get a cord belt like the one at http://www.wle.com/cloth_train.html Tie belt once at the right height, wrap the excess material around the belt and then tie the rest of the belt around the wrapped excess.

This is the traditional pants style. When I was in Hong Kong, one maker of uniforms had a belt that was like a really thick karate belt. (thick, not wide) It wrapped around your body twice and had a real secure feel with no tie. (Just a tuck)

It was bulky though and I didn't like it.

Stephen

I would say...

liondancing.com
liondancing.org

Jason

I tend to agree with Stephen and Jason,

liondancing.com seems more likely to be remembered since .com is the most common ending, but liondancing.org works just as well for me. Sorry that wasn't very creative! What about lionheads.com? It isn't as general, but I think it sounds kinda cool...

Chris

I like liondancing.org or.com

liondancing.org
liondancing.com

.org, or .com, either way, seems cool...

Andrew

Hi list,

Chris: not bad: lionheads.com..:-)

But the majority of votes are for liondancing.org so we've (we=the list) found an agreement there. Serhat is arranging things to get the name registered, and he'll also host the domain, so a lot of thanks to Serhat!

BTW I'll soon be on holidays for 4 weeks, back mid August, take care all, and enjoy the summer,

Rob

Ps no one in Anchorage I presume..?

Well, I registered the domain a bit earlier today, so if all goes well (i.e. no jokers got inspired to register it also ;-)), it should be available and resolvable by the weekend.

The reason we didn't go for liondance.org/etc is because that was taken already for some inane reason -- I didn't find anything related to liondancing there. However, we do intend to let liondancing.org offer some information on liondancing.. but for starters we'll just host the mailinglist there and see where things go. We could also put up a FAQ of some sort if anybody wishes to compile one.

If anybody has some nice pictures of liondancing, perhaps we could put those up for the temporary page.. I don't know what the ideas on a possible site are, but we'll see when Rob gets back from vacation.

Now the question.. why are we doing all this stuff with the domain, etc when freud.et.tudelft.nl works just as fine and there are most likely many other places that offer something similiar?? Well... I think it's just cool to do and people seem to appreciate it :-) So.. why not, right?

I'll let you guys know if there are any new developments.

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

Well before we re-invent the wheel, Chris' site http://www.oocities.org/lionscave1/ is very good and it would be great if this domain could host his site.

Hey chris, where's my article :-) http://www.wle.com/resources/articles/51liondance.htm I noticed that Keng Seng had referenced this one.

Also, some pictures have been put up at: http://www.wle.com/school/liondance.htm

Stephen

Hello all,

The results of the just completed 2000 World Lion Dance Championship at Genting Highlands:

Final results:

Champion: Kun Seng Keng Dragon and Lion Dance Association, Team C, score: 9.325
1st runner up: Sg. Way Khuan Loke Association, Malaysia, 9.20 (Yip and Dicky, who were at the 1999 Chinese Lion Dance Conference in SF, performed in the head and tail)
2nd runner up: Hong Kong Chinese Martial Arts Association, 9.09

Other finalists (in order of appearance):
Wei Jin Dragon and Lion Dance Troupe, Singapore, 8.99
Associacao de Artes Marciais Chinesas de Macau, Macau, 7.04
Taiwan Fei Hong Guan Dragon and Lion Dance Group, Taiwan, 8.74
China Dragon and Lion Dance Sport Association, China, 8.85
Himpunan Bersatu Teguh Lion Dance Team B, Indonesia, 8.94
Kun Seng Keng Dragon and Lion Dance Association Team A, Malaysia, 8.63
Macau Chung Soon Sport Association, Macau, 8.38

I'll try to send more details/comments later. My Net access is limited right now.

Congratulations to Kun Seng Keng and to all of the teams who performed! The performances keep getting better every year!

Greg

Hi list,

>Well before we re-invent the wheel, Chris' site
>http://www.oocities.org/lionscave1/
>is very good and it would be great if this domain could
>host his site.

Hmm, but then why not mine, or why not the site of .. etc....

I have a different proposal:
if the domain is for the list, why not let the members present themselves there, sort of like: if you join, you get to be/discuss with these people...? People on the list who have a site could have it linked there, and people who have pics of themselves dancing or with a head or so could have it displayed.

It would/could be like this:
www.liondancing.org: page where you find information about the list (introduction story, (un)subscribing etc), and another page behind it (like liondancing.org/listmembers.html) with place for a short description (resume in <=35 words) and place for 1 or 2 pics (personal pics, all the same format), and a link to their preferred site (their own if they have one, if not, some other)..

Oops, it does sound an awful lot like a guestbook..... guess it would be a listmemberbook..:-)

What do you think?

Rob
Ps I'll be back from holiday mid August, leaving in 2 days.. got a zillion things to do

Well, I picked Chris because he started this whole thing. Then again, it's you who helped push it to where it is today.

> I have a different proposal:

The list member/contact page sounds like a good idea. Would that be easy to maintain?

SC

Wow!!!! Congratulations to Yip and Dicky! Second best in the world (and just a heartbeat below KSK)! Hahahahaha...I like the sound of that.

Willy

> The list member/contact page sounds like a good idea.
> Would that be easy to maintain?

Maintain by whom? The list admin or the invididual people? The latter case would be some work but it would a rather interesting IMO.. let every person who's interested set up and maintain their own profile. I would be willing do make some code for this.. chances are, I'm going to reuse the code in other projects anyway.

In general, any administration should/will take place through some easy to use web interface. I have some experience with this personally since I made something similar (but simpler) for a few clients of mine :-)

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

> Maintain by whom? The list admin or the invididual people?

Well that was the question. You say you can make it maintainable by individuals then I say that's the way to go.

One point to consider, some sort of passwording so I can't go and change someone elses profile and then some admin ability so the administrators can adjust as appropriate. Also the admin should not necessarily be you alone. Have some super user logins that can change anyone.

Of course, whatever you can produce will be fine. Just trying to offer suggestions.

Stephen

Yes yes, of course.. we'll make sure YOU can't change other people's profiles ;-) But seriously, people will get their own username/password to access their own data (and optionally other people's too depending on their access rights). The username could be equal to the email address, but it doesn't have to be.

There will be some super users.. I guess me (technical guy), Rob and Chris for starters. My role in this will mainly be a technical one.

> Of course, whatever you can produce will be fine. Just trying to offer
> suggestions.

It's fine to offer suggestions IMO.. after all, this domain, etc is for you guys so you are even *expected* to offer suggestions and ideas :-)

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

Are there any plans for VCD????? I WANT I WANT I WANT !!! i wonder how the USA, UK, Fr, And canadian teams did. Wow indonesia did pretty good. Is the 2nd runner up from Hong Kong the same ones in 1998 that did the pink lion?

Albert Le

interesting to hear the indonesian group placed a decent score in the competition. being the past repression of the chinese indonesians in expressing their language and culture until this year when the chinese of indonesia were finally allowed to publicly celebrate the new year after mare that 35 years.

Hi all,

On my way back home and just like to give a bit of review of the world champs. Congrads to KSK, HKG and Yip & Dicky!

Generally the judging was much more consistant and strict. A new colour card system was used whereby all the (point giving)judges slot appropriate color cards for appropriate mistake:(ie. red for major fall, black for minor fall and yellow for slight mistake). It was stricter than previous competition whereby any slight mistake was penalised(even a slip of a foot during stacking). Another modification was the deduction of 0.1 points for accidental falling of costume and decoration instead of the previous 0.5.

The mood of the competition was also much friendlier. This is due to the fact that many teams has practise together before(ie. the Indonesian team and Kung Seng Keng), and that teams like Kung Seng Keng and Khuan Loke(Yip&Dicky's team) was offering everybody with lot of help. Many teams not only borrowed the poles and decoration from the 2 teams, but also the 'drum' stage. I think it was really great that both teams lent their stuff, espl. the stage, as they cost a lot anf helps improve the mark. Thus no teams (except Taiwan's during the prelimenary)had 'bare' poles. Then, during the finals team USA's Harlan and Wayne help give Yip and Dicky massages which I think did help them during the competition. There were many new friendship from the champs.

After the presentation ceremony, there was also great atmoshere. Since all the top three teams are trained under Master Siow (though they don't train together), it was like a family reunion. All the tail dancers lifted different teams' head dancers onto their head's for photograph, and later even KSK's tail dancer lifted HKG's tail dancer and HKG's head dancer lifted KSK's head dancer for the photograph. Later, KSK took the trophy from the stage and let everybody take photgraphs with it. Among them was KSK's tail dancer lifting the USA's tail dancer.

The most surprising team was non-other than the Indonesian team. There were relatively unknown, but there performance was first rated. And both teams was just as good. 1 year ago there did poorly in the Macau Champs, but after that they trained with KSK(in Malaysia and Indonesia) and they really gave the audience and great stir. It was obvious that they were very happy to participate and was sarisfy with their score. There were also some Indonesian audience who came to the champs not knowing what to expect but were all very happy after seeing them. There were shouts of "Indonesia!" everywhere. Later, the Indonesian coach told me that one Indonesian audience asked whether they could but Indonesian flags in Genting! Clearly, they were one of the winners from the Champs.

Some teams had very little time in practise, ie. the French team had only 10 days, and it was the first time they put on the lion head to do the competition. Consequently they fell 3 times and could not continue. However, team USA had only 5 days to train and it was their first time putting on the lion head too. But they did not fall and only incured a 'slight mistake' penalty for a very minor mistake. They were even had a picture in the local newspaper with a caption: team USA used very stable and balanced steps to complete their 'exciting & dangerous' routine. By and by they did very good and has a lot of potential.

I also met James Lee, Vela and Greg Chuck from the list, though I must apologise for my lack of hospitality due to the very hectic nature of my trip and the chaotic reception of my phone. So we did not spent enough time together, but it was still very enjoyable for me. Hope we can get some review form you guys/gals too.

Well, that's all from me now. Next time I'll try to review each performance according to what I saw.

George,
Singapore(on my way back to Sabah)

George,

Thanks for the update.

Were there dragon dance or kei lun dance demonstrations at this championship? Pls advise when vcd of championship is available and I will be most happy to distribute in North America as before.

David

I think all the teams that participated deserve a pat on the back. It takes alot to make it to the championships and perform. The way I see it, if you made it there, then you're already a winner. Teams that participate in this event set the standards for the lion dancing community and the teams that didn't make it to the finals should hold their heads high. God only knows I can try half the stuff they do much less perform it in front of a stadium audience and on top of that not make a single mistake.

I've been away for a bit so i haven't been able to reply to everything going on...

While it would be great to have liondancing.org host free pages for lion dancers I don't think it would be practical in terms of costs, logistics, etc. I like the idea of having a listing that list members can post their information on and link to their own private pages hosted elsewhere.

Okay, looking objectively at it *IF* we were to pick one website to host at this domain from the existing ones I think it would be the Lion's Cave. Not just because I did it :) but because it isn't really a personal page--it has the list archives, links to virtually every other site out there, equipment retailers, etc...

That being said, I don't want to move again! :)
Having just transferred the files from the original Lion's Den site was a bit of trouble and that site still gets more visitors than the new Lion's Cave website! Geocities isn't perfect but I've settled in here.

I think Rob's suggestion is great and can't wait to see how it turns out! BTW Rob, are you still updating the FAQ on your site? I know we didn't give you much help with it, but there's tons of new people on the list now and maybe someone has more time...

This is going to be great!

Chris

Fellow lion dancers,

Hello! LionDance.com sounds more appropriate to me . Thank you .

Laine