Hey Laine, and everyone on the list.

The person you mentioned as Brendan Lai's student might be my kung fu brother Eric.

Does the name Patrick Hodges ring a bell? or the Chinese Physical Culture Club?

Anyway, I'm just gonna' put this out there for some feedback.

I hooked up with a guy named Peter in Malaysia for some Lionheads. His troop is called Wai Meng liondance troop. I forget his teacher's name, though. I'll have to check with him.

He'd like me to see if there's enough interest in the SF Bay area for him, I think his Sifu and one or two others, to come out and do a seminar on traditional ground formations and maybe some modern stuff.

I'm not a business person. I make my living as a third grade elementary school teacher. Don't hold me liable for what might or might not happen.

Anyway, what was the process for you guys to get Sifu Siow out to hawaii. You guys must have sprung for the plane fare, right? How may days did Sifu Siow stay and teach...

I gave the guy my word that I would ask around and see if there's an interest. I'm interested, but I can't afford to fly out a private instructor from malaysia for me to learn liondancing.

I don't know all the costs involved, yet..... Just tryin' to get an idea if I should give it a go, or will I end up having to take tons of money out of my account, again.

I talked to one or two schools already, but they'r e kind of saying, " Oh Yeah, that sounds cool. maybe we'll show up, but most likely not. And don't think about asking the more established, big name schools, they won't want to go."

Anyway, my idea of a seminar is not discussion and response. I'm talking hands-on workshop, so everyone, somehow gets to participate and learn by doing.

Open to suggestions and wisdom,

Sincerely,

Perry

I'm new--not to lion dancing, but to this group-- I like the idea of a central web page for listings and links but I have to say I really don't like geocities--too many pop ups and it's hard to save without saving an advertisement instead. Well, that's my 2 cents.

chuck

Hello, just testing...

Bye,

Serhat

Hi All,

I haven't been checking my messages for over 4weeks so I am having to read over 100 messages...they're mostly from this list....I have enjoy reading every messages coming from you guys...

Too bad I could not participate with the voting of the domain name...but I would have choosen the one you guys chose anyway.

Anyway...having the new domain is nice any all...but what would be of the lionscave? Are we transfering all those pages over or are we starting from scratch with the new domain? Creating a member's list and bio is a great idea because I had wonder many times who most of these members on the list are (i.e. whether they're mail or femail, from the US or not, middle aged or teenage...etc). It would be great if we can have something like that for the list...but in terms of time and the amount of work involve...will Rob and Serhat have the time to maintain it.....remember, this mailing list is an ongoing process and will take a long time. I hate to see it up for a few years and die out....the list as it was had been doing very well and is growing every day. Will this new switch be able to keep up and most importantly, will it be able to continue to help the list grow.

Those are just some pondering thoughts I had about the new domain. It's cool and everything but we (all list members) should consider the possibilities (advantages and disadvantages).

In the mean time, I have a few question for Rob and Serhat: with this new server you guys are hosting, do you support CGI scripting? I had accepted to do the search engine for the list in Javascript...but it would be much easier for me to do it in Perl Script. I am still in the process of developing the Javascript engine though. Please inform me. Thankx.

It's been a long message...will write more latter.

Thanks all and It's been great seeing the list active! :-D

Vo Minh Duc

> Anyway...having the new domain is nice any all...but what would be of the
> lionscave? Are we transfering all those pages over or are we starting
> from scratch with the new domain?

The details on the contents of the site itself will have to be decided at a later point (like when Rob gets back from vacation). I don't see it as a big issue or problem. I don't see this domain as a replacement for anything but 'freud.et.tudelft.nl'. It is an addition to what already exists rather than a replacement (i.e. we mean well! ;-))

> Those are just some pondering thoughts I had about the new domain. It's
> cool and everything but we (all list members) should consider the
> possibilities (advantages and disadvantages).

As far as I am concerned, 'list@liondancing.org' is the final destination of this mailinglist. That's the nice thing of having our own domain name for it -- should I and/or Rob decide to discontinue this list, then the domain can be hosted elsewhere. This is completely transparent.

One of my (technichal) reasons for moving this list is because the freud server hardware seems to be getting a little old and unreliable.... sometimes we get uptimes of only a few days (this should be weeks/months).

If there are any other disadvantages than the mailinglist email address changing, I'd like to hear it.

> In the mean time, I have a few question for Rob and Serhat: with this new
> server you guys are hosting, do you support CGI scripting? I had accepted
> to do the search engine for the list in Javascript...but it would be much
> easier for me to do it in Perl Script. I am still in the process of
> developing the Javascript engine though. Please inform me. Thankx.

Yeah, we've got CGI scripting on the server, but personally, I prefer using PHP ;-)

Please try using 'list@liondancing.org' from now on... I'd like to see how well this holds up :-)

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

Hi Serhat,

I am replying to you and the new list address...I hope it delivers alright.

Anyway...so then, will all the list's archive from the lion's cave be transported over to this new server? From now on, who will be incharge of maintain and updating the archive? Chris has been doing a great job at it.

Yes, I know you and Rob means well and I totally supports you guys! I just want us to keep an eye on what we do and aim for long term effects and benefits. My question for you is, will the new server you host be able to handle all these trafics and messages comming through every day?

Good luck to you guys and let me know if you needed any help.

Vo Minh Duc

> Anyway...so then, will all the list's archive from the lion's cave be
> transported over to this new server? From now on, who will be incharge of
> maintain and updating the archive? Chris has been doing a great job at
> it.

Well, the archive can be made in an automated fashion. We can integrate the new archives with those that already exist, so they will always be up to date, etc. This should make things a little easier on the maintainer.

> Yes, I know you and Rob means well and I totally supports you guys! I
> just want us to keep an eye on what we do and aim for long term effects
> and benefits. My question for you is, will the new server you host be
> able to handle all these trafics and messages comming through every day?

Well, what traffic are we looking at? A few messages per day (ok, these get resent 100 fold) and some visits to the webpage. All in all, I don't expect traffic to exceed 1-200MB monthly. The server and connection are fast enough.. in fact, it could probably handle thousands of messages per day. We are pretty much below that limit still ;-)

> Good luck to you guys and let me know if you needed any help.

Thanks :-)

Please don't expect much to be available on the website yet. This will all be worked on when Rob gets back from vacation. The reason we hurried up with the domain name was twofold: the freud machine is doing badly and we didn't want someone else to beat us to the domainname. As you can see on www.nic.com, liondance.com/net/org have all been registered. No interesting contents there :-(

>From now on, please use list@liondancing.org for mailing to the Liondance mailinglist.

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

Hi Perry,

This sounds like a great idea. I'm comming (from Seattle). My team can really use some extra help on the ground formations.

About cost, you might want to ask David Lai because he took care of Master Siow's visit last year....David should be able to give you an idea.

I hope you get enough responds!

Good luck,

Vo Minh Duc

Perry ,

Hi ! How are you ? I'm doing fine . Anyway , I myself have been trying to contact you too . I tried e - mailing you two times allready and it came back to me . But I'm glad that the new lion dance e - mail list came out . So , I thought I try the list@liondancing.org to see if it'll work or not .

I see now that mr. vo has contacted you through e - mail . Which is good , atleast you got a feedback . My solution to this whole thing was to create a flyer with the information on the man you wanted to conduct the seminar . Or get a video of the lion dance expert doing the lion dance . This will help convince people that this guy really knows his stuff . And set up a P.O. Box so that if anyone is interested they can contact you through you the P.O. box . And , you just done it , through e - mail , which I forget to think about . But doing it through e - mail is a great idea . But I was just giving you my solution . You may want to go with mr. vo's idea which damn good .

Before I get carried away , if people are interested , they can write to the P.O. Box and you can send them the video just to give them an idea about whose going to come down and do the lion dance seminar . Or make an advertisement wih the man's picture whose conducting the lion dance seminar . And make a flyer with the man's picture . And the info of where they can contact and who to contact for this lion dance seminar . Other than that , that's all I can think of .

I was training with Patrick Hodges for about 2 years , a damn good instructor of kung fu . He's the one who had influenced me to do research on different kung fu systems. Which I am doing now . I met Patrick Hodges , while I was a member at the Chinese Physical Culture Association ( Jung Mo Tai Ouk Oui ) . I was a member of the club for about 5 years . Off and on mainly because at that time I was working and going to school at the same time . But kung fu was my life too , so whenever I had time I would go down to the club to train or to see what's going on . From there whenever I saw him or rather whenever we saw eachother we would greet eachother . Then one day I became his student , and he became my teacher . He once said that it was up to me to keep the art alive . Because once I stop practicing the art is dead allready . But , I myself like kung fu so much that I decided to continue the training . The philosophy is what intrigued me towards kung fu . Then one day Patrick had go work part time because the place where he worked had cut the budget so that's why my training stopped . So one day it was at a performance it was at the jung mo club house . Where the gee yung club , had paid a visit to the jung mo club house . So the jung mo lion and the gee yung lion plaed together . At that time my good friend was allready a member of gee yung . So I went to the performance with him . After the performance was over me and patrick talked about this whole thing where he'll no longer teach . Because he had to work another job . But I got his permission to join gee yung . Which is the second oldest club in Hawaii . But even though I'm with gee yung today , I still talk to him whenever I see him . I'm also working too , so it's been a long time since I had talk to him . So I just have to make the time to see him . Because were trading instructional videos ( kung fu ) , and we still are , as soon as I have time to see him . Because , he's one of my resources in kung fu , other than him , would be thomas , and my sifu today mr. lee . Well , take care my friend and keep in touch .

Laine

Hi All,

Why is the list all of a sudden went so quiet? Well here is a question I had while practicing with my team this week.

I had just began teaching them how to use the rope to blink the lion's eye during performance...the problem is, everytime they let go of the string, it went out of their view and they had to search for it....Also, if they hold the string during a performance...they lost a lot of control of the head. This is because their right elbow is not as strong as holding the right side with their right hand. So, what have we done wrong? Is there a specific technique of tieing the string so that it will not fly around inside the head or got stuck inside the bamboo frame?

What is the trick here? I saw the competition videos and they seemed to be holding the string all the times (except when raising the head but they did not loose track of the string, neither did they loose control of the head). How did they do that? Could somebody please help me out?

Thank you,

Vo Minh Duc

Choice #1: Tie the string to the stick holder of the lion(where you it with your hands). Then whenever you need just put.

Choice#2: replace the string with a longer bright color string so it can be easily reached and spotted.

Choice#3: this is not recommended. Hold the string in your mouth and when you need to blink, nod.

Albert Le

Hi all,

Just like to share some thoughts about the recent World Champs before I get the review ready....

There were more teams that entered this time. However the accomadation that was provided was a bit rough (Ria Apartments)and many teams were not happy about it. Genting apologise for that and explained that there were just not enough rooms in their hotels, but promise to have hotel rooms next time as there will a new hotel in Genting soon. I think it is fair and good that the teams brought this matter up as it is important for this competition to improve. In Hong Kong, hotel rooms were provided.

The turn out for this year was a bit less, because unlike previous years the tickets were sold and not given out free to hotel guest. The place was quite packed, but there were still places for the participants to sit(luckily!). In 1998 during the finals the place was so packed that all participants had to stand. However the prelimanaries had more audience than last time.

The competiton went more smoothly this time and it ended quite on time. However, There were no surpporting performances(like dragon dance) such as in 1998. It would have been great to have some.

There will be VCDs of the champs, likely to be on the Malaysian market during November. It was done by the same group last year and hopefully they will be of the same, if not better, quality.

There are plans for the 2002 world champs and the tickets will be sold at RM 100(US$25). This will definitely limit more audiences. Well, maybe it will be better for the participants and the true followers of LD as there will be more seats available.

Any comments from those who were at the champs?

George

Hi,

We here tie the string (add a bit more string)to the handles on the bottom of the lion head. Tie the string to the correspounding side to the hand which you would use to blink the eyes. So, when you want to blink, just 'swat' the string. Master Siow, who tought this up for KSK, show this technique during the LD Seminar in SF in 1999.

Hope you find this helpful.

George

I have the same problem with some of the lionheads we have, but I noticed that that's only with the lions with lighter weight string. We have lionheads with heavier string that is more stiff so that it doesnt fly around at all when you let go of it. Tie that into a loop, and I never had a problem with the string when it is of the stiffer type and tied into a loop. Also I think it would help to make the loop not too small so that you can find it easily. I think that should work. At least it has for me so far.

Si Si

What I would do is that tie a big string to the string that came with the head . The string should be big enough so that you can grab it, when you need to. When in the head use your upper body and both of your arms and elbows to support the head. You still can move , by using your entire body to do the lion dance movements . Or you can even use sifu siow's way of blinking the lion's eye , since he's an expert in lion dancing himself . because when I practice on the lion head myself . I notice the blinkking eyes area myself . And those are the way that I thought of , my head already came with a big string that's why it was `easy to grab . But I did learn from it though.

Laine

Hi Everyone,

Although I am new to this group, I have done Lion dance for a long time now.

Re: string for the eyes, I use nylon rope with a medium diameter to replace all of the pulley rope that comes with the Lion Head, but I do not have a section that hangs down for the dancer to pull on. Instead I tie a rope to the systems of ropes that connects eyes and ears and then tie this rope to the hand bar. I do this on both the right and left. Where these ropes are tied to the ropes for eyes and ears I secure them with cloth tape (as used for sports injuries) to the ropes attached to ears and eyes - if this is not done, then the ropes from the hand bars to these will slide and move and also secure the rope to the hand bar (in its first 1/4) with tape.

When doing this conversion, it is important to do it with the Lion Head in its normal position and not turned upside down. If it is upside down, the whole mechanism will have too much slack. When doing it this way, make sure that the whole rope system is fairly taunt so it does not require a lot of pulling distance to make the eyes blink. What I have my students then do is to grab both hand bar ropes where they and operate the eyes by pulling straight down on them. With this system, the ropes for operating the eyes can easily be found and operated even when in the midst of a jump and the dancer can use either right or left hand. Just make sure not to pull to one side or the other, but straight down, otherwise the eyes do not blink evenly - but this can be neat too, to make just one eye blink - like playing with a spectator. The arm of the hand that operates the string, supports the hand bar with the forearm and shoulder and the Lion head can be easily manipulated and is fully under the control of the dancer.

Hope this may be of help!

"Kam" - 'Wes Cameron', Si Fu, Shaolin West Kung Fu Kwoon

Hi , I know some clubs actually add a piece of string to the eye string so that it is long enough to tie to the "CHIN BAR"( the bar that goes straight across the frame of the head where the mouth is tied to!!!)

Daniel Low

Hello , the sifu from the shaolin west center is right . Tie a nylon piece of rope , to the string that controls the eyes and ears at the same time . it's good to make it big and long enough so that you can grab it , when you need to. Also , for certain lion dance moves , you can also use your elbows to support the lion's head . And you can also use your hands at the same time to blink the eyes of the lion . Also you can hold the head on your shoulders , support with the elbows and still use the hands to manipulate the eyes and the ears . Because that's exactly what I would do . I have a lion's head at home , but the string that came with my head , was big allready so I was lucky , that I did'nt need to fix it up or to modify it . I got mines from far eastern furnishings a store in Hawaii . But I don't think that they carry lion heads any more , but I know that my lion came from china . The people at far eastern furnishings bought it during a trade show in china or hong kong ad that's how they got it . Take care .

Laine

Just wondering.... would tying a the string like that get in the way?

Hi All,

Wow, that was a handful of ways to deal with the eyes blinking. Thank you very much for all the suggestions you guys have given me. I will try them out one at a time and pick one that best suit my member's needs and style.

Many thanks to all who had contributed to my question and to this list!

Cheers,

Vo Minh Duc

P.S.: I will have some follow up questions on this as avaialable. Thanks again.

>Just wondering.... would tying a the string like that get in the way?

not really just tie it more to one side . for example all of our dancers are right handed so wee tie it more to the right and so even when we choy cheng you can either tap on the string or pull it regularly. and the good thing about it is that you can rest the head on your right elbow , have your left hand on the handle bar and hold the chin bar and operate the mouth with your right hand and blink with having the string right there waiting for your pull!! haha

Ok, I have a question but it doesn't have so much to do with the blinking of the eyes as with the stuff below. Do you guys find it useful to have the information on how to unsubscribe, etc at the bottom of each email? Apparently it causes problems when people quote the whole message.

So.. shall I just remove the trailer message or what?

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >To unsubscribe, email: list-unsubscribe@liondancing.org
> >> >For additional information, see: www.liondancing.org
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, email: list-unsubscribe@liondancing.org
> >> For additional information, see: www.liondancing.org
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, email: list-unsubscribe@liondancing.org
> >For additional information, see: www.liondancing.org
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, email: list-unsubscribe@liondancing.org
> For additional information, see: www.liondancing.org
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