Hi all,

After much effort, I am proud to announce the launch of our troupe's website. http://www.stas.net/liondance

Chris, could you update the info for Lee's Golden Dragon Dance Troupe under the Texas teams? Thanks a lot. And we hope you lion dancers out there enjoy the website.

Willy Le

Thanks Ernie.

To: Gee Yung members, do you have any pictures of your dragon? What other things can you vary besides the color and number of sections in the dragon? Thanks.

Willy

Hey willy,

I'm starting to remember something about chung ngai. back a year or two, my dragon dance team was doing the dragon (its the golden one that's in chung ngai's pic gallery) for a parade for the chinese hospital? with the hong kong stars? i remember we went to i think the holiday inn ( the chinese center across from portsmith square) and you guys were lion dancing (i recognized your blue uniform and your lions heads(not the malaysian ones). i wonder if you were there and if you remember me. that day i joined you guys in cymbaling because i felt the big urge to lion dance in some way ( dragon dancing isn't as great as lion dancing to me). i was wearing golden clothing (top and bottom) cymbaling along with you guys. wonder if you were there.

o well

Albert le

Hey Albert,

Yeah, I remember that day! Haha. I have a pic of Chung Ngai posing in front of the hospital with the HK stars. Also, I have a faint memory of someone joining us on the cymbals...it was when we were in front of the Holiday Inn, right? So that was you??? Hehe. Cool. I believe I was playing the gong at that point. Don't recall exactly, but gong was most likely it.

That day was funny. At one point I was trying to get off the moving truck in order to relieve some people on the lions (for the parade we brought out those old-style 30 lb. heads with the extra long tails). But the traction on my shoes obviously wasn't prepared for that kind of movement, and I slipped and fell onto the road. I was afraid I was going to get trampled because all of East West was right behind me!!! But I got up and promptly rejoined the parade. I hope nobody saw...hehe.

Willy

Hey Willy

THat was me alright. i have this thing with joining other teams in cymbaling. Haha, i didn't see anyone fall but I was with East West that day That day was fun. haha

Albert

Hi Liondancers,

I've got something to ask here, because this thing has just happened to another liondancers in my team who have been the best pair. One time, the liontail said that his stomach was hurt and felt really bad, so the lionhead told him to have a traditional massage. After a few days the liontail said 'hey, you're right. how do you know bout that?' the lionhead said that it because it had happened to him before. When I asked what was the matter, they said that their inside stomach fell down and by having traditional, it was back to its position. For all of you, does it happen to you? Coz I heard that someone died because his inside stomach fell down (not a liondancer). I have an idea, maybe that's why we have to use the sash tightly. Is that so? Also I heard that it's more easily happen to girls. Sorry for saying such strange topic. I hope it's wrong anyway :)

care,

Vela

Hi Vela, what do you mean by their stomach fell down? You mean like it was out of position or something. I don't think that this has ever happened to any of our lion dancers. I was told that we tie our sashes tightly to support our backs. This is the first time I heard about this stomach thing.

Si Si

Several things on the agenda:

1)Any info on the upcoming lion dance comp this weekend in Oakland, CA?

2)Saw an old movie, Year of the Dragon with Mickey Roarke. Anyone know which lion dance team did the openning scene?

3)Anyone in the LA area should definitely check out the Gold Mountain exhibit at the Gene Autry Museum. It only has one lion head on display, but for anyone interested in Chinese American history, the exhibit is a must!

That's it for now...as for the stomach thing, that's the first time I've ever heard of anything like it.

-Jj

JJ: I think our group will be there. From what my troupe leader told me, it's not really a competition, but more of an exhibit for those who have never or rarely seen lion dancing before. No props allowed, 2 lions, and traditional/freestyle only. I won't be attending, because I have paintball practice, and it's only allowed for 18 and under. I also heard that only 4 groups will be allowed to perform as as well.

You know I wish they held a competition for amateurs, meaning you can use props but not poles. That way those bigger groups can't come along and blow everyone else away. It would be cool if they could separate lion dance competitions according to class...

is that competition the street fest? and what day is it? i want to see if i can go see.

Albert

Hello everyone,

I am a former Liondancer from Portland, OR but am now attending school at UCLA. I was wondering if they were any teams in LA looking for new members?

Rex

Rex,

I don't know. I am in Austin, Texas. Is there anyone that would be interested in joing our team here?

Vinh Nguyen

I think that having your "stomach fall down" is more like an expression they use. Like how m y mother used to tell me that if I didn't sleep with my stomach covered I would get "wind in my belly" I think there are many such expressions for otherwise normally described ailments in Asian culture.

Look up East Wind in Chinatown L.A. go to the their website is http://www.eastwind.cjb.net (i think) they always accepting members. I think they should be good for you.

Albert

I have an uncle that's part of a lion dance team in austin but i have idea what team is he from. he has MY LION HEAD Still! its still at dock. i've been waiting forever for it. What team are you from?

Albert

Rex,

Really? What is his name? My team is with the University of Texas:

www.utexas.edu/students/vsa

Look at the gallery section and you should find us.

Vinh Nguyen

his name is son. he's pretty old, like late 50's i think.

Albert LE

Vela,

Do you know what the 'inner stomach' is? I'm not familiar with that term. Do you just mean the 'stomach', or is it some other organ?

Geoff

I think she might mean rupturing a kidney or spline. I don't his?or her? english is that good. I don't your stomach can "drop" unless you are gaining weight. I don't think that traditional massage helped him heal in 3 days, it was just probably the same amount of time the injury would normally heal. Or i think she/he might mean the person had a large pain in the lower abdomen when she said his stomach fell. and when he/she said it was put back in place, its just probab;y the pain going away. That death vela was talking about might of been a serious rupture of an internal organ. I'm taking guess its either one of those.

O well.

Albert

> Or i think she/he might mean the person had a large pain in the lower abdomen
> when she said his stomach fell. and when he/she said it was put back in place,
> its just probab;y the pain going away.

If it is lower abdomen, then it's intestines. The stomach is right below the junction of the rib cage below the sternum.

> That death vela was talking about might of been a serious rupture of an internal
> organ. I'm taking guess its either one of those.

Wow.. they must have really tied that belt tight! Either way, I don't see how women would be more at risk, so don't worry Vela!

g

With the "stomach dropping" they could be talking about a "hernia". Hernias are very common injuries. Some are minor, and cause some pain and discomfort, some are deadly.

A hernia is when the walls of your body, that contain your internal organs, burst open. Some people, weight lifters for example, love to wear a heavy belt for extra back and stomach support. You can still have a hernia when you are wearing a belt or sash. The best thing is not to over-stress your body. If you can't normally perform a lift or jump, dont do it.

The really bad cases of hernia can cause your entire abdominal wall to split open, and most of your internal organs spill out on the ground in front of you.

Hope that helps.

Austin texas...hmmmm....can u tell me wut the name of the group is??...me jus curios....my ghroup performed at austin before....on a grand openin for a temple...teo chew temple..in austin...aite thanx

Pk

I think you guys are looking at western medicine too much...In Chinese medicine the stomach is the center of your chee...All your life forces center on your "dan tien"...your stomach.

Those are two different things. In Chinese medicine (I'm graduation from Chinese medicine school next month), the source of post-natal (aquired) Qi (chee) is the Spleen and Stomach. The 'center' of your qi is the dan tian, an acupuncture point (qi hai) 3 cun below the bellybutton. But anyways, Chinese or Western, dead is dead. That's an amazing hernia though.. never heard of splitting open!

g

VSA Lion Dance Team
www.utexas.edu/students/vsa

Vinh Nguyen

That's because food goes into there. =) Of course it would be the center of your "chee" or energy. Most of us are from the western world and know the western medical terms. Looking at western medicine is the way some of us has to go. plus we are just finding what vela meant by stomach falling down.

Albert

Hi everyone and anyone,

Oakland, California's annual streetfest is going on. I went to get the info late this afternoon. Sorry about such short notice, Tomorrow 8/27 at 12 noon is the showdown. It's happening at the stage next to the golden dragon restaurant. on 9th and Webster.

Marina middle school in San Francisco is looking for someone to teach their liondance club. It's a small group. I used to pretend to teach them lion dance with what I picked up from my friends. My knowledge of the art is very limited. The club meets on Friday's at roughly 3:30 to 5. The pay's pretty good, though you won't get rich doing it. Kid's are really enthusiastic, though they don't practice as hard as they should. You have to go through the school district's security check, provide fingerprints and some other paperwork.

sincerely,

Perry

Where do you study Chinese medicine, Geoff?

Si Si

pls contact me regarding your proposal.
tlouie@earthlink.net

Wow! A *paid* job teaching lion dancing? That's pretty amazing. That should be good for someone down in the bay area.

Geoff

What groups are going? what kind of competition? amateur? I want to go see. Too bad i don't think i can't get up there without a ride.

Albert

Hey Perry,

Do you know Scott Yee?

Si Si

Hi Everyone,

I have been searching through the archives and there is really a lot of sharing and great information from the members of the list. I have noted one thing that disturbs me though and that is the occasional reference to non-Asians as Lo fan. As a non-Asian or actually 1/4 Asian and 3/4 non Asian, I can tell you that any Non Asian, in the know, will find this to be a Highly insulting term to use. The same stands for Gwei Lo. These are racist terms! Now I hope that this was not the intention and most likely it was not, given the friendly nature and no flames policy of this site, but none the less it is racist to Non-Asians. I have read Non-Asians on this site joke about this, but it (racist terminology) is not a laughing matter. I hope in the future not to see this terminology used on this site!

"Kam" - Wes Cameron, SiFu, Shaolin West Kung Fu Kwoon

Kam,

I agree with you about the term, "Gwei lo" and it's racist conotations, "Gwei" meaning "Ghost" and "lo" meaning person... Resulting in "white person." "Gwei Lo" is a slang term. However, "Lo Fan" in cantonese, refers to Caucasian, with no racist intention. I'm 99.9% sure that all asians have been called a racist name at least once in their lives, and more importantly, because of their race, may it be either Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean...etc. So I understand where you're comming from. "Lo fan" is the only term I'm awear of (in cantonese) when describing a caucasian person. I don't know where you got the idea of it being a racist term.

Jason

Hi,

As a caucasian who has spent some time in martial arts, has lots of cantonese friends, and works in an all Chinese business, I have no problem being called gwai lo, lo fan, bak jai, etc. I know that some of these terms can be really offensive to some, but jovial to others. It's similar to black people and the word "nigger". Maybe I'm just thick skinned though.

Lo fan is the only one that I dont know the exact meaning for. Can anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Paul

Paul,

I agree with you. I have heard ad nauseum about 'racist' terminology. As with the word 'nigger', the context and intention means everything. I don't give a damn if my best friend's mother calls me gwai jai or whatnot.. she still treats me like one of her family. It's a far cry from calling someone an asshole.. which has no interpretation of being used as a casual 'friendly off-color' term that I'm aware off.. The school that I study acupuncture and Chinese herbs in is called the Northwest Institute of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine. If you were an Asian studies major, that would be very offensive for some reason... which is stupid, because there is no possible of interpretation of the name of the school being a racial slur! There are some people who want to petition to change the name. All my Chinese friends who are not Asian studies majors (only one person in particular) use the term 'oriental' themselves as well. We never have had a foul intention behind the use of that word! I think the people who get so offended are skin deep and don't interpret the intention behind language and just focus on the word itself people use. Sorry for the rant... but I live in Seattle and the extreme 'PC'ness is about the most nauseating things about the city.. besides the traffic!

Geoff

ps- I thought that 'Lo Fan' meant 'round eye'.. but that might not be right.

Hello,

Sorry, disagree with both Geoff and Jason. I ask you to ask yourselves what the term Lo Fan translates to in English, and really ask yourselves if this is a complimentary term for Non-Chinese.

Geoff - your last post - well not too nice.

Wes Cameron

Well I was not able to give this a further response this Am as I had an appointment to keep, but now I have the time to - so: This is the first I have heard of 'Oriental' being offensive to Asians, so I will not go there. This site is no flames, so why Geoff, do you take out your anger here? There is no need for swearing. If you are encountering trouble at the school where you are studying, please do not project it onto this site. I am not calling anyone on this site a racist, but to use racist terminology is just simply not right. I find your post to rather wanting in politeness - please stick to the 'no flames' policy of this site. Now let me respond to Geoff, Paul and Jason. Having numerous Chinese friends over the past many, many years - all of them have the same opinion and that is - Lo Fan is just not polite terminology to use. Geoff, If you and your friends wish to call each other by the terms you mention, then that is your business, but it has no place on a public site devoted to 'friendly' dissemination of Lion Dance information. Frankly, my Chinese friends and myself call each other by our names. If they or I am speaking to another in the third person about each other and clarification is needed, then we use polite and correct terminology, such as Chinese, Non-Chinese, Asian, Caucasian etc. Thick or thin skinned has not to do with this issue. Rather, as I said, it has to do with correct and polite use of language. Lo Fan does not translate as Roundeye, rather it has to do with 'rice' and since the rice used in Asia is 'white', the term basically means 'white rice person'. I say basically, as often it is difficult to translate precisely, but this is pretty darn close.

Like I said, in my experience with Chinese culture and people, everyone I know says this is not polite terminology to use.To all other Lion Dancer posters on this site - sorry for opening up a can of worms. The reason I was attracted to this site was for what I perceived as the sharing, caring and of course the stated site policy of no flames - all for the purpose of increasing the knowledge, understanding and skill level of Lion Dance, regardless of race, culture, creed or color. I hope I was not mistaken! Now this has been an exceptionally long post. Enough said.

All the Best!

"Kam" - Wes Cameron

Hi,

What are you talking about? I speak 4 different dialects of Chinese. "Lo Fan" means Caucasian (white person). There isn't any other word for it. I asked my Aunt who is a Chinese professer at a University if there are any other words, she said that "Lo fan" is the politically correct term to call a caucasian. What to you suggest to call a cauasian person? Your use of "Non-Chinese" is very vague. If you're Italian, the Chinese term for an Italian person is, "ie-dai-lay, Yun." If you were Mexican, it'd be "muck sai goa, yun"... I tell it like it is, and if you can't handle it, Your mission to change a 5000 year old language will be a hard one.

Jason

You didn't have to construe it as taking out anger or flaming.. I was just voicing my personal opinion. There was a point to the response, but it was not to put you down Kam! No hard feelings, ok? If you come down to Seattle, let me know and I'll buy you a beer.

... but.. Lo Fan was about as polite of term that I've heard for whites. My best friend's father was a university professor in China and frowned at the use of 'gwai jai or lo etc' and would use the term lo fan in a very polite way.

Geoff