ok you're gonna think I'm some kinda prude or something--but you should not be smoking at all!!! never mind the fact that if it doesn't kill you or others around you it'll make you sick until you wish you were dead--rotting your lungs and throat and mouth with cancer that eats you alive...

...but in the 1600s a british scientist named Sir John Hill discovered over 19 cancer causing alkaloids that occur naturally in the tobacco leaf (which by the way is also called "black flag" which is also the name of a roach killer because nicotine is the active ingredient, being probably the most deadly poison available). So since the 17th Century it was known that you could get cancer from this toxic plant and yet not until the 1960s did the truth leak out to the general public! I don't know about you, but that kind of evil, deliberate, heinous plotting to addict and kill people isn't the kind of legacy that I want to pass on to my students, or my children.

Tobacco is a crop that was introduced to Asia by Europeans along with their opium crops. Nicotine is just as addictive as heroin, but believe it or not--it is even more deadly. The LD (lethal dose) rate is much lower for nicotine, meaning it actually takes less nicotine to kill you than heroin.

Sorry, I'm sure you didn't want a lecture, but I guess you pushed a button. My Grandfather died from it. I've watched friends suffer from it. It is a really debilitating drug and I am furious when I see martial artists destroying their health and encouraging children to do the same by their example.

So, maybe I'm just one of those crazy crackpots who wants to take away your freedom, or maybe I'm trying to help. You decide.

chuck

Hey I'm one of the few in my group that doesn't smoke But there are alot of people that smoke, so that's why i asked

Bravo Chuck !!!

'Kam' - Wes Cameron, Si Fu

We used to have a few guys who smoked, but nothing like that is ever done in uniform. I don't think it's too much to ask to hold out for the duration of your gig, even during setup and cleanup.

Best,

Willy

Hi guys,

I am sorry...but could someone please tell me what a 'gig' is? Is it another term for performance?

Thankx,

Vo Minh Duc

I totally agree! In fact.. even some of my friends who smoke would agree too. Why they do it? Short term satisfaction is high, I guess. Besides, it's neat to fiddle with something to pass the time. On the longer term, you slowly kill yourself, you damage the health of your loved ones and your wallpaper gets a nice brown color. I find it a shame every time I see a smoking parent with a baby. Bah.

I would say that smoking is one of the most widespread antisocial and stupid habits around. Surprisingly, I know quite a few smokers who are very intelligent. Being pissed at smokers has nothing to do with trying to take away their freedom.. as a non-smoker, it has to do with smokers taking away _my_ freedom to breathe safely. The right to breathe should always outweigh the right to pollute.

Sorry about the rant, but I too have some negative experiences with this bad habit.

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

Hi All,

Good to see you involved in the list again Neil.

The way we tighten our drum skin is to take a hair dryer and to put the drum over it on the floor (hair dryer is placed on the floor, blowing up towards the skin), with the heat on full and speed on high, for 1/2 to 1 hour. I have found this to tighten up our drum so it did not sound flat.

Neil....the wet towel is a neat idea, it would dampen the skin and with the heat, the skin would tighten considerably - good for really flat sounding drums with pretty loose skin where a lot of tightening is needed.

All the best!

'Kam' - Wes Cameron

I thought that Lion Dance was part of martial arts. You should learn how to live a healthy life in martial arts. But.. I've seen a 'sifu' in this area smoking with his students while giving lion dance performances.. I don't know what the hell he's teaching.

Geoff

Once again, I think that this is something totally blown out of proportion like the Marysville/gang topic. On the one hand, we have participation on the list, on the other hand, we start throwing out opinions that really don't pertain to lion dancing. What started out as a question of proper etiquettes and presentation to the general public/audience has now become a flurry of anti-smoking soapbox, and judgment indirectly towards other schools/teams. Please look as Deuce's initial question, and look at Geoff's response. (I'm using Geoff's since his is the last imput on the topic) I think out of the responses, only two answered the question directly. My team doesn't even tolerate gum chewing during performance and when we're in uniform, let alone smoking. Afterwards when the students are away from the performance and out of uniform, they make their own decision. But please bear in mind that working within a community, we do have a unique face, and people can recognize and identify us according to who's team we represent regardless of whether our uniform is on or not.

Personally, I don't smoke, don't recommend the habit, and are aware of several teammates who do smoke on their own time. Labelling the habit as "stupid" or questioning what the sifu is teaching because they smoke, I think crosses the boundary because that does become an opinion at this point which you are entitled to, but does that really pertain to the topic of lion dancing albeit setting examples for the younger students. As for this topic, I think there's enough answers at this point to move forward to the next topic of lion dancing. The reason why I bring this up is because the opinions are starting to touch or overlap upon another topic in lion dancing. Showing respect to the elders of the team, primarily the sifu, and whether our opinion on subjects such as smoking crosses the line of disrespect. Actually, I better stop on that one, but hopefully you get the idea.

-Jj

Thank you for the response. Your technique worked well!

D.J.

Hello Fellow Lion Dancers

I simply believed that since some of us are living in the United States or different parts of the world . It ' s true , smoking is bad for the health . I seen people smoke when in uniform as they are about to do lion dance performance . But , the main thing is that they sepererate themselves from the rest of the group.

Now gum chewing , there ' s nothing wrong with gum chewing. I ' ve seen alot of lion dancers in uniform chew gum , even in performing or leading the group in parades . The gum chewing is what freshens the breath or rather people chew gum because they want to , and the taste is good too . But overall smoking is like gum chewing . The difference is that smoking , like people on the list has said , it ' s bad or the health . Gum Chewing is ' nt , it 's alot safer than smoking . Ofcoarse , not to offend people but , some people have bad breath , and gum chewing solves the problem . And , people chew gum mainly because they want to . When you smoke too much you tend to have bad breath.

But , most of us live in america . And america is a free country . Which means , we can do whatever we want . As long as it does ' nt put people ' s lives in danger , or endanger people ' s safety . I know a kung fu sifu who smokes too himself even at a performance both in uniform or not in uniform . But , atleast he again seperates himself from the he ' s own group . For the lion dancers who smoke they smoke , because they want to and it also releases stress for them . Well take care.

Laine

Does anyone know if Jonie can cut/alter the length of a tail to make it shorter? We took ours off, folded it from the top and then re-assembled it. It's shorter now, but the excess tail can be seen sometimes.

I'm not too sure if she does alterations... Maybe you can ask if you can buy just the tail. I know that he has the modern lions with th 7 feet tails... and the old school lions with 12 feet tails.

Jason

Talk to jonie about it , if she does ' nt do alterations . Like what jason said earlier , maybe you can ask her if you can buy just the tail.

Laine

Yes the word 'gig' is a slang word for performance.

Yes she can shorten your tail for you.

Is there an accepted method used for shortening the tail that most groups use? What we did was to safety pin the heck out of the tail overlapping it on itself and then duct taping it on the inside. Doesn't look bad from the outside but once in a while the safety pins come out =(

Andy

Funny you should mention that about gum chewing and living in America. It's not so much a Kung Fu/Lion Dance thing but Society dictates what is acceptable. I'm sure if you live in Singapore, the same can not be said about gum chewing!!

hey everyone

i just bought a darwell drum(large) for 225$. was this a good price? corine was very nice bout everything but i was just wondering bout the quality of their drums. i've noticed there not as nice as the Jonie's drums. the nails on the jonies are gold and the sides of the drum are perfectly round. the darwells looks like there is a layer of fabric over the wood and then painted. it doesn't look that good cause the wood is not rounded nicely. the top black paint on the skin is already starting to chip off in the center. i' just got it today and it's already chipping. is this normal? does anyone have a darwell drum? and how long did it last? i also wanted to paint our schools name on the drum. when i bought it the whole thing was black (not the red band tho) there was no flower or any other design other than black. my schools name it " Mills" can anyone help me figure out a nice way to write it on the drum? we kinda want it to look kinda chinesey, like the way they write stuff in chinese on the drums. can anyone design a sketch for me to use on ur free time? our school colors are red and yellow, so if anyone can give me ideas it would be great. thanx

~erick

Sure it 's true society dictates what goes on , and yes , may be I don ' t know about singapore , I can admit that . But , don't you think that every body has a right to their own opinion , I was just speaking my mind , about what I think, towards the topic.

So , if I may not know what I ' m talking about . Why did'nt you speak out in the first place . Because , everybody has a right to their opinions , but when you attack people's opinions , that ' s how argument starts. If you can ' t chew gum in singapore , although I respect singapore too . Then , the rule or law about gum chewing needs to be changed . But , it 's all up to the goverment in singapore to make the change . So , what ' s so bad about gum chewing ? There are times, when we must learn to respect people ' s opinions . If we can ' t then , no sense in saying anything , it ' ll only create arguments.

Well... How long is the tail already?? I don't know any groups who use the old fasion lions for show anymore... we have a few but strictly for practice.

Hi Erick

I think this goes for buying any kind of new equipment. You get what you pay for. If you're willing to shell out more money, obviously you're going to get better quality. But if your budget it tight, finding a drum within your money constraints is your best solution... You just hafto do best with what you have. About your school name. I have this Font that's called "Chowmein". It looks "chinesey"... check it out, maybe you could use it.

Jason

Quick question: why have people been taking things so personally lately? The past few topics have turned into arguments very quickly when all it takes is a careful reading to see that the original post was not meant to be an attack in any way. Please people, read carefully and try to understand what the person is saying before you respond to what you think is an "attack" on you.

In my opinion both smoking and gum chewing are not acceptable during lion dance performances because they are not "professional." Lion dancers should see themselves as professionals dedicated to presenting the best possible image to the audience. It's the same reason we're supposed to keep our uniforms neat--if you look sloppy people will think of you as sloppy.

Personally, if I went to see a doctor or lawyer or any other professional and he was chewing gum I'd probably take my business elsewhere. Maybe lion dancing isn't as lofty a job as those, but we should still see ourselves as professionals and act accordingly.

just my thoughts,

Chris

Cheers Chris! My sentiments exactly. I think that as Lion Dancers/Martial Artists we are professional entertainers and should conduct ourselves accordingly. Our team does it's best to show up at our gigs at least an hour early, prepared and eager to represent our team (and martial artists in general) as professionals ready to perform. We all show up in clean uniforms and constantly monitor ourselves to ensure we present a professional image. In years past this has proven to keep everyone happy from our agents to our clients. We must remember that even though we may not see ourselves as role models, the young audience watching us might and any behavior not conducive to functioning/performing should not be observed by them.

k

I think $225.00 is a decent price. We bought ours from darwell, 4-5 years ago. It was a medium for $175.00 along with two heads for $450 each. The drum has outlasted the the two heads. The drum is still very tight. We just tighten the skin once in awhile, but it is still good. Yeah, the wood does chip easily, so becareful when you transport it. Ours has the flower and some chinese characters and does have the gold nails (faded off by now). So either they are buying from another manufactor or the manufactor are not creating the same exact drum as before.

If the tail is too long...i usually get inside the tail...and pull the end of the tail inbetween my legs...and tuck it in my pants...this is should only be done to the tails that doesnt have that stick thingy...other wise if u tuck the stick thingy inside...u know.....well it kinda hard to epxlain wut i do..but that as close as i can get it too.....it doesnt look bad when u do this.....it look pretty good if u can do it perfectly...which take pratices

Pk

We do - on our black lion. It makes the tail's arms quite tired though, since you have to hold your arms out straight to keep a good shape of the lion. I like the long tail because when you do the bows, the body puffs up like a parachute when the head goes down and makes the lion look quite big. The other lion we usually use has a lot shorter tail, so it takes getting used to when you switch from one tail to the next and have to adjust for the amount of slack.

g

Hi All,

What we did for body length was to take a 11 ft body and sew a 1/2 inch material elastic (the kind you use in the waist of pants or cuffs) along the length of the body from just below the rim of the head to about where the shoulders of the tail performer come to when he is bent over. This scrunches the body up (but the scrunches do not show) to a shorter body. When you need a longer body, the performers can just stretch the body out to the length they need (of course the maximum length of the body - 11 ft in our case - is dictated by the original length of the body).

All the best.

'Kam' - Wes Cameron

Well the tail is long enough that many of the people in my group have mentioned getting lost in it. Hence the shortening. It used to be long enough that it would slide down the tail player's back and toward the floor giving the appearence of a saggy butt.

Andy

I'm not familiar with tails having a stick of any sort... You've piqued my curiosity. Please explain.

Andy

I believe he means the newer tails that have a 5 inch white (stick with fur) furry tail at the end of the cape (tail). The tail man can wiggle it to make the lion look more lively.

Hello Chris & Sherman

First of all lets put this topic and argument behind us. And forget about it , okay . I apologize to you sherman , for accsusing you of attacking me . When I took your posts or e-mails personally , when I should ' nt . And you folks are probably right , I was thinking back when I chew gum I usually do it when people are not around . Because , it ' s rude when you talk with something in your mouth like a gum . And lion dancers like me and like you people are proffesionals so we have to act accordingly . So , you two are right , excuse me . So sherman , tell me about singapore ? What about gum chewing in singapore ? But , I just wanted patch up what I started , once again sorry sherman , and you right chris . Well , take care people bye.

Laine

P.S. Yes , I got to read the posts more carefully before I react to it.

Old fashion lions as in the ones with long tails.... we use it. That's all we have because they are all restore lion heads from my Sift. They are probably 25+ years old. I don't know if there are any safe ways to shorten it unless if it is shorten permanently.

Hello All,

Usually , when I play tail myself , it all depends on if it ' s a short tail or long tail . I ' ve learned that there's 2 ways of playing tail the regular way and the championship. I know that you people probably know how to play tail already . The regular way is the way geoff hudson mentioned, the way to prevent your arms from getting tired is to flap the tail slowely up and down . And it ' s good to get a reliever . The short tail the championship way all you do is hold the head players waist area where he ties his sash . I ' ve picked it up from seeing other tail players . As they were doing the performance.

The company where you get your tail and head from. Regardless , if it ' s jonies , darwells . They should be able to help you out . I would do the samething too . Other than that figure out where on the tail area I want to mend up . Cut it up carefully , and sew up the cut area.

Because , when I play tail myself . I always make sure that I can see the feet of the head player . I never did play a tail where it was too long. If it was too long , I probably tell the sifu to mend it up . The same way I metioned . Or if anbody has other ideas, then that ' s fine too . This is just my idea . But , if at all possible work with either jonies or darwells . Because , some times we can make a mistake and do some damages to the tail. During performances it won ' t matter because , while the lion is dancing no body will be around meaning people who watch the lion dance performances . Except the lion dancers themselves . But , after the lion dance performance is over . The spectators may want to come and look at the lion ' s head and tail. Because , spectators get curious about how lion dancers do the lion dance.

But today , like jonies their head are made of laser paper which makes the lion head look nice . Did'nt know that it could be made that way . Or may be the people who really make the head probably get a shipment of laser paper regardless of color , and make the head , and hand design it from there . anyway , take care people . Other than that do cross training exercises like aerobics , or practice lion dance to build your endurance and stamina. Bye

Laine