Stephen,

Hello, yes, you're right, you're the one that wrote about Bucksam Kong's lion dance, came from Hung Gar. Excuse me, I got confused between you and Geoff. But I read your posts again on this topic. And yes, I'm just making the corrections to this topic.

And no problem, I was glad to share the knowledge about Sifu Mak Hin Fai teaching Sifu Bucksam Kong's students the lion dance, and Choy Li Fut Kung Fu. Infact, speaking on this topic. I just picked up the newest issue of Kung Fu/Qi Gong magazine yesterday. And Sifu Bucksam Kong just celebrated his 60th birthday. In Chinese Culture the 60th birthday, is one of life's most celebrated occasions. It indicates a life well spent, looking back on family and accomplishments, and looks forward to another 30 years of good health and prosperity. Take care, bye.

Actually, Sifu Bucksam learned both Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar. He probably learned Choy Li Fut from the late Lee Koon Hung. But hired Sifu Mak Hin Fai anyway, to teach his students Choy Li Fut Kung Fu and the Lion Dance, sorry to leave this things out, but now you know. Sifu Mak Hin Fai and Phillip Ng was also invited to Sifu Bucksam Kong's birthday. Take care, bye.

Laine

Hello Andy, If you use a lion that has not been awaken (Blessing Ceremony), you will be spreading bad luck to whomever or whatever you are performing for and some believe that anybody who touches the lion will have bad luck also ( that is after performing with it if it isn't blessed). Also it was told to me that after a new lion has been bless that you do not perform a sleeping routine on its first performance, since the lion has been sleeping all that time.

Hey Andy,

I'm not an expert in the hoi gong ceremony but if I was in your situation, I wouldn't worry too much. I mean, none of your audience members brought up the issue and you didn't mean any harm. So no harm no foul.

Just do the hoi gong for your lions before the next time out. My troupe performs a rather simple hoi gong which isn't too heavy on the tradition but still keeps the spirit of the ceremony in mind. In lion dancing a lot of things are left to your preference so you can infuse your own style into it (opening salute, types of lions, etc) - I believe the hoi gong is one of them (as you can see from all these variations on the list).

Best,
Willy

I'm complete agreed with Albert. It's a matter of language term, you can call a dog for a cat or a cow. So the term lion dancing = Vu Lan/Mua Lan.

I have a question. On an earlier post, my partner and I bought a new lion head from China. We were gonna change the fur because it is too thin, we are gonna use lamb skin. Should we do it after the blessing or is it ok to do it before?

I would make whatever changes before the hoi gong. Its just like when we reinforce the lion and coat it with resin. Resining the head is done before the hoi gong and sometimes involves stripping the fur off and glueing it back on.

Circle of life...I guess. Drums get old, new drums are blessed....can't keep collecting old unusable drums.... We borrow the spirit from heaven by bringing it down in the hoi gong. We must return it to heaven when we no longer need it.

Hi there,

I was wondering.. do any of you people have nice tilable background images that pertain to liondancing? I am looking for images with a maximum size of 128x128 pixels.

Perhaps an unusual question, but I am curious what there is out there.

Regards,

Serhat Sakarya

Hi Serhat.

If you go to our wbsite at www.mts.net/~jamieson and look in the lion dance section, there are several images of Lion Dancing. Ask my Si Fu, Si Fu Kam, if you can use them and if he says yes then go ahead and use a couple of them. Please don't use them for commercial purposes though ok? Si Fu Kam posts here, but you can e-mail him at shaolinwest@hotmail.com to get his permission to use the images.

peace

Hi Andy,

As others have said, traditionally, you are spreading ba luck. That said, it's much like getting your house blessed. If you are practicing catholic, you wouldn't dream of moving into a house without it being blessed. It really has a lot to do with belief. Since your Sifu obviously didn't teach you this, it's not in your system so you may not have to worry about it.

As for implications, I will pass a story from my Si-sook. They were practicing for a big show and using new lions to get the feel for it. The kwoon is small so they need to practice outside. Everytime they wanted to practice, it rained. Then someone reminded him that they were using lions that hadn't been "awakened." Since they couldn't practice anyways, they decided to do the hoi gong. After they were done, the rain stopped and they were able to practice.

You can believe what you like.

Stephen

Hi Shiu Sifu,

Do you mean the first performance AFTER the hoi gong or during the hoi gong? We do the sleeping lion during the hoi gong. It's part of the ritual.

Stephen

hi everyone

i'm still trying to find a good paint that will stick to laser paper. i know i've asked this question before but please let me know if there are any products out there that would work. i am helping to repair my schools dragon. It was a homeade one that was built about 5 years ago and my friend and i want to update its style and everything. right now the whole thing is made of cardboard and it is pretty bad looking. i'll try to send some pictures later. we are goign to stick laser paper on it and atenpt to paint it but i really need to know what paint to use. i've seen the stuff they use on siow heads but i have no idea what it is. it seems to be really thick and has really good coverage. if anyone knows of any product please let me know.

also I e-mailed darwell for a catalog but i never got a response. does darwell check there e-mail? or they just don't have a catalog. does anyone know of other lion dance equipment places that has catalogs besides jonie's? THank you for your time guys.

~erick

Stephen,

When you get a new lion, the lion is considered not exist. After the Hoi-Gong, the spirit make the lion alive, so our sleeping routine is to wake up the lion from scratch eyes, ears, nose,...etc.

The whole routine is call the sleeping routine but not include the Hoi-Gong. You don't perform the Hoi-Gong everytime you perform the sleeping routine.

I hope it will help.

Si-Sok
Gobert Yeung

I don't know if others have this experience, but it never rains on the lion dance. We live in Seattle and I've given up trying to think that it's just coincidence. Thirty-five years of lion dancing in Seattle and I would have thought that it would be raining sometime when we do our dance. In other words.. I believe what you are saying. I've heard many stories that are related to the same topic as well. I'm pretty skeptical (I'm an Ox!).. but past a point, it's ignorant to think science and coincidence account for everything that happens on this world.

Geoff

I'm not familiar with laser paper, but paint will stick to anything pretty well if you score it up a little bit. Maybe if you take some really fine sandpaper and give it a once over so the paint has something to grip on.

Andy

Hi Andrew,

I do not know about the paint for the lazer paper...

But Darwell do have a catelog of all their products including their lion dance stuff. I am sure you have the right e-mail address...but here it is again: Corine Ask for Corine...she is really good at replying my e-mails (Try putting this phrase on the subject line: "Attn Corine") I thought I had her direct e-mail address but I don't...but if you address the message to her, it will get forwarded to her. Also, it takes awhile for them to sent the catelog to you...the best you can do is keep checking with them to see if they have send it out to you yet.

Good luck.

Vo Minh Duc

Hehe. Maybe Seattle is a more 'special' place than the Bay Area. Rain and the lion dance is a way of life in San Francisco. =) Anyone recall the parade of 1998? Terrible! And the Miss Chinatown contestants had to walk that parade cuz the float broke down, too... wow.

Maybe we can talk about this a bit - what do you guys do if it rains? We used to wrap the heads in plastic and go on out there no matter what (esp. during choi chang season). They were the 'utility' heads, of course. We once got rained on while transporting Siow Sifu's heads. Luckily they are protected with that sealant so no runny paint, no damage whatsoever. I wish I could say the same about some of the other lions I've used...

Best,
Willy

I can't believe that the rain ceases in Seattle during lion dance performances as much as it's known to rain up there. I'm not saying that it's not possible, I'm just saying...actually I don't really know what I'm saying because like Willy, I'm in the Bay Area where it is common to be performing in the rain. (And if I can recall that parade of 98, it just didn't rain, it hailed!)

The point I was trying to make about the rain performances, yeah we can wrap the heads and the drum with plastic, but what becomes a pain after awhile is when the body/tail becomes so soaked that it carries almost a few extra pounds of water. What can be done about that besides wringing them?

Hi Willy,

I have danced in the rain before...I even danced in snow one year during Lunar New Year (some time in the end of February)...We started dancing the streets and half way through the streets in Tacoma...it started to snowed. We continued dancing anyway...it is as if once the lion is in motion, it must finish.... :-) It was kinda fun to dance in these conditions but it is very damaging to the lion head....and the tail got really really heavy. At the time, we didn't have anything to cover the head at all...we continue dancing as if it wasn't raining (or snowing).

Vo Minh Duc

Hello Stephen, I mean the first performance after the Hoi Gong ceremony.

Hi,

I have never heard of the drum being part of the Hoi Gong ceremony...what spirit from Heaven would be brought down to it?...has anyone else on the list experience or knowledge of this...my Lo-Si and his father (verrrrry old) just did the Hoi Gong for our new Gold Lion and for our rebuilt Lion...nothing was done for the drum other than painting (regular paint) the name of my Kwoon on it with no ceremony at all and if you do the drum then what about the cymbals and the gong?...next time I see Lo-Si I will ask him about it.

All the Best!
'Kam' - Wes Cameron, si-fu

Hi All,

That should read www.mts.net/~jamieson/Index.htm. I believe we have some nice jpegs - you can contact me if you wish and I will be glad to share them with you.

All the Best!
'Kam' - Wes Cameron, si-fu

Sifu Kam,

When we did our lion blessings last Saturday night, the high priest blessed all of our lion heads, including our new drum, gong, butterfly knives, etc. What he did was after his call to the heavens, our old drum would be "rolling" and he would walk around the new lions, new drum, new butterfly knives, new drum sticks, new gong, new flags, etc., and would sprinkle "blessed" water from a small bowl with a pomelo leaf. That was a Taoist priest by the way. Whatever was presented to be blessed, he would sprinkle the water on top of them. After the drum is blessed, we would tie a red ribbon around the diameter of the drum just like the lion's horn.Just a little more about the ceremony, all of my students would pray before the altar before the ceremony and would wash their hands and face in pomelo leaf water before they first touch the lion after they are blessed. Something about cleansing the human body for the blessed lion dance. In regards to the old drum, when it is really broken down, i.e. the drum skin is stretch out of tone or there is no decent sounds after beating the drum, we strip down the drum of it's nails and rings and the springs inside. We throw away all the metal things. Everything else is taken apart and burned at the temple along with our old beatup lion heads. It is to return back to heaven what is no longer useful on earth for us.

Aloha,

Ernie

it's ignorance to rule it out. Seattle is known for its rain, but during what times of the year? and when do the lion dances occur? You account for coindences for the supernatural.

Albert

Darwell's catalog only has the old fashion fatshan heads. They do get more modern lions in every year but they don't have them in the catalog.

Hi guys,

We sometimes have used 'unbless' lion heads to perform. This is because there are always situations which do not allows this (esp. for competiton), i.e.getting the new head just at the competition venue whcih is out of town. However we did not mind as to us the 'kai kuang' ceremony is a blessing ceremony and did not really mattered then if we did not get the maximum 'blessing'. (FYI, our team had a minor fall then :)). As for our ceremony, it is very simple as we are a Buddhist team and only used 'pearl sand'. We also have a small blessing ceremony prior to our Chinese New Year LD season and one after it. This blessing is more for the safety of the dancers.

As for rain, I remember in 1988 our school started with 6 new lion (from China) on the morning of the first day of CNY. It started raining (in the best tradition of tropical rain forest downpours) at 8am and by lunch time none of our lion was useable(deformed/flatten). So, practice lions were taken out, repaired (by salvaging parts from other lions) did a qick blessing and went out again for the next few days. Man, those must be the worst/weirdest looking lion around town then!

Regards,
George

Hi guys,

We sometimes have used 'unbless' lion heads to perform. This is because there are always situations which do not allows this (esp. for competiton), i.e.getting the new head just at the competition venue whcih is out of town. However we did not mind as to us the 'kai kuang' ceremony is a blessing ceremony and did not really mattered then if we did not get the maximum 'blessing'. (FYI, our team had a minor fall then :)). As for our ceremony, it is very simple as we are a Buddhist team and only used 'pearl sand'. We also have a small blessing ceremony prior to our Chinese New Year LD season and one after it. This blessing is more for the safety of the dancers.

As for rain, I remember in 1988 our school started with 6 new lion (from China) on the morning of the first day of CNY. It started raining (in the best tradition of tropical rain forest downpours) at 8am and by lunch time none of our lion was useable(deformed/flatten). So, practice lions were taken out, repaired (by salvaging parts from other lions) did a qick blessing and went out again for the next few days. Man, those must be the worst/weirdest looking lion around town then!

Regards,
George

During the rainy season. I didn't say anything about supernatural, you did! I'm still trying to figure it out.

Geoff

That's exactly what I'm talking about as well. Glad to hear I'm not just imagining things. ha ha.

g

Hi Ernie and All,

Thanks for the info. Ernie...I guess it depends on whether you do a Taoist, Buddhist ceremony or a VIP does it.

'Kam' - Wes Cameron, si-fu

Hi!

WE do have ceremony done for new drums too!they would chant phrase regarding the heaven spirit(can't remember the exact meaning now)

Arnold

oops sorry

albert

To all those that placed reservation on VCD:

Here is update on the 2000 lion dance championship VCD from George. Seems like a mess, but I personally prefer to support the official producer of the VCD and not buy the pirated copies. This means waiting til January/February.

David

David,
I've just gotten back to my home town. I will try to get the VCDs tomorrow, and hopefully will be able to sent them next week. However, I've just heard from Master Siow yesterday that these VCDs are actually not from the official producer, but somehow got their hands on the footages. The official producers have not release their VCDs yet and are now in discussion with Genting Highland about the course of action. I pondered on what to do. There is a big chance that the official VCD will be release much later or not be release at all. I hope it is OK with you. Sorry for the inconvenience. FYI, each VCD weighs 200 grams.
George

George,
Thanks for the information. I can not understand why the official producer is taking so long.  Frankly I prefer to support the official producer, but if there is a chance that he won't come out with this at all then the demand pressure is too great on this side to hold off.  Is there a way for you to contact the official producer to get updated information?  However, if you have already committed to buying from the other source, then just send them.  But, if you have not committed to buying them yet, then maybe I can pass your e-mail to the lionlist and assume buyers will prefer to wait and see when the official producer will release this VCD. Thanks for all your help.
David

Hi David,
Well, I have just been told by my Master who was in contact with the official producer that they will be releasing the official VCD during January 2001. Apparently the 'pirated' VCD was pirated from the master VCD when the master VCD was given to Genting resorts for them to put on their website. Apparently somebody in Genting took a illegal copy of the master and released it themselves. Genting has admitted it, but I don't know how they are going to compensate the official producer. Maybe that's the reason why it is taking so long to release the official VCD.

Anyway, after I heard that I put my order on hold. I would also like to get the official VCD, as the one I have now is 'unprofessionally' done with just footages of the final lion dancing teams only. The official one will have at least commentary from Master Siow which really makes viewing the VCD more interesting and educational. It will also have footages of all teams that participated in the competition and their respective interviews, so that audience will get a feel of the whole competition. I think it will be much better for someone to get the official VCD if they want to know more about lion dance competitions. So, David, how? My suggestion is to wait for the official VCD until at least the 2001 Chinese New Year. If there is no news after that then we will consider getting the pirated ones.

Sorry for the inconvenience! I did not know things would have gotten so complicated! Feel free to post my mail onto the list if you want.

Regards,
George

Hello David,

I would like to stay with the official producers. I'm not into buying pirated or stolen merchandise. Which to me is the same.

I have no problems with being patient. Whenever you need me to send you a check let me know and you''ve got it.

Sifu Rahim Muhammad

Hi David,

Me too...I'll waite...just let me know when you get the official VCDs and how much it will cost...

Thanks for keeping us up to date on this.

Vo Minh Duc

Hello Deuces, I just wanted to know. What company in China did you get your new lion head from? How much did it costs you? You can reply to my email whenever you can, thanks. Take care.

Laine