Hey David

well i'm willing to wait for the official producer of the VCD but what about the 1998 VCD.  Will I also have to wait till after the new year for that as well??

Shel

Hi David,

I too would prefer to wait until Chinese New of 2001 for the official 2000 chamionsip VCD. Take Care, bye.

Laine

didn't buck sam kong learn his choy li fut from lee koon hung too? lum jo's school isn't a strong lion dance school, meaning they don't empasize a lot on lion dancing, so i assume buck sam's lion dancing came more via lee koon hung and with mak hin fai contributing to it too.they they eventually had a falling out and mak hin fai went his own way..maybe cuz mak couldn't keep his shirt on whenever he lion danced.

The two off-shoots of Buck Sam Kong in Honolulu are not very strong in lion dancing. They focus more on the Kung Fu and rarely appear with the lion dance. We've asked them to participate in some group lion dancing exhibitions in the past but they humbly decline our invitations. They avoid playing at the same time with other clubs if at all possible. There was one occassion where the host of a birthday party had accidently invited two groups, us and Kong's. Normally, if this happens, and Ernie knows what I'm talking about, the two clubs just play together. However, despite our invitation for Kong's to play with us, they refused and played the birthday party first. Then when they finished, we went in and played the same party for a second time as requested by the party host.

I think that Buck Sam Kong traces his CLF to Lee Koon Hung. I don't know where he got his lion dance. As for Lum Jo school, it is true that his school currently doesn't emphasize lion dance but YC Wong one of his first students in the SF area had a very strong lion dance tradition. Again, I don't know where that tradition came from but I assumed it was Lum Jo.

My Si-hing went to visit Kong Sifu's school in LA. He said that they had a neat metal frame that weights could be added to in a shape of a lion head (very bare bones) to practice with. It sounded interesting but I've never seen anything like that. Anyone use similar items?

Wing Lam's lion dance tradition comes from his other Sifu, Chiu Wai.

Stephen.

PS. What is the reference to mak and his shirt?

You would think that each was presented with an opportunity to really perform and have some good natured fun with the two teams.

sort of like a dueling banjos thing! ha ha.

I can see some of the reasons why, in a case where two team show up, that they may not be comfortable playing with each other.

Drum beats are the first thing that come to mind. Whos drummer sets the pace? will the other team be able to find the groove and stepping patterns that fit to that drum beat?

the drum speaks to and guides the Lion in its motions. It would be difficult to know, when the jumps are, when to do the fancy stuff and so on. The drumming in Lion dance after all is the meter by which everything else moves. So I could see the problem with having two teams show up at the same time without knowledge of each being there.

peace
David

Greetings

I have a question:

You know during the New Year, groups come out and perform and bless stores, etc etc. Now what happens when you come across a funeral parlor?? What do you do with the heads, drums, cymbals, gong??

actually there is another funeral parlor in richmond sf, but that is not in richmond chinatown.

Hi,

I just want to introduce myself. My name is Eduann, and I am from South Africa. I was contacted by the list owner to join this list. I am 25 years old, and teach Kung Fu full time. I practice and teach Choy Lay Fut, and also studied other styles of Wushu (Nan Chuan, Hong Chuan). Although I am not yet very experienced in Lion Dancing, I enjoy it very much. Last year was one of the highlights for my school, when we did a Dragon Dance and Lion Dance at the closing ceremony of the All African Games. We were assisted by a team from China, Master Huang who played the good emperor in the Jet Li movie, Shaolin Temple.

Currently, our lions are very old and not in a good condition anymore, so I am looking to purchase new lions in the next year. Due to our countries exchange rate, I cannot really afford to get them from the USA, so if anyone can help me with a affordable new or good used lion set, please let me know.

I hope to learn more about Lion Dancing, and about everyone else from this list. Warm Regards (from a very hot and sunny Africa)

Eduann Barnard

hey everyone

i was wondering if any knows where i can buy rabbit fur. i need it to repair and add some rabbit fur to our dragon head. I live in the S.F bay area. please let me know thanks

~erick

Hello Eduann Barnard, si-fu

Welcome to the Lion's Cave. We are all avid Lion Dance enthusiasts...some are also involved in Chinese martial arts and we have a few si-fu on the list as well.

I am sure you will enjoy participating on the list!

All the Best!

'Kam' - Wes Cameron,si-fu

Buck Sam Kong has alot of controversies, surounding his name. Although, I do respect this sifu myself. So, if anyone of you lion dancers want to know, then you can contact me directly. Sifu kong wrote 2 books on the Hung Gar system, but it's out of print allready. His other book tiger and crane of hung gar still is being published. By Blackbelt magazine, I think. And also sifu kong also has videos out by Blackbelt magazine. And other than that his Gung Gee Fook Fu video tape, and you can also get the book too.

Sifu Kong probably does'nt know lion dancing at all. That's why he hired Sifu Mak Hin Fai to teach the lion dance. And if Kong's Sil Lum Pai did'nt get involved with any lion dance exhibition, when they were invited to dance with other groups. Then it's true they were more heavily into kung fu than lion dance. As stated in the previous posts on the Buck Sam Kong topic.

And plus, I'm just following the list@liondancing.org guide lines. Seng Au, himself was once a student of Sifu Buck Sam Kong too. Then one day he decided to branch off from Buck Sam Kong and. And formed his own kwoon known as Au's Shaolin Art Society, they do kung fu, lion dance, chi kung, and sifu au also holds monthly seminar on women's self defense. It was in July, I forgot what year but in Honolulu. At the Chinese Cultural Plaza, they had a Chinese Martial Arts Exhibition. Where Sifu seng Au's kwoon had done the lion dance with other kung fu clubs in Hawaii. Like Chinese Physical Culture Assn. Gee Yung Internatinal Martial Arts Assn. Lung Kong Physical Culture Club, Kuo Min Tang Physical Culture Assn. And the last but not least Chinese Lion Dance Assn. And seng au's group was able to blend in with the dance and music of other kung fu clubs in general. That's probably the difference between Sifu Buck Sam Kong and his student Sifu Seng Au. Another student like Sifu Veron Rieta also, branched off from Buck Sam Kong, and even opened his own school in California. He is also the stunt man and fighting choregrapher for the New Highlander movie, which stars Adrian Paul. Sifu Rieta also teaches lion dance too. Because, I have his Taming the tiger tape (Gung Gee Fook Fu ). The Highlander series is good for Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar practitioners. When I saw the series myself I was able to recognize those Choy Li Fut moves or movements.

Anyway, I've met people who's been students of Sifu Buck Sam Kong themselves. Only few has positive things to say about Buck Sam Kong. The other rest of the disscussions were negative. And people has their own opinion towards a sifu, and we have to respect it. Infact, I respect this lion dance list too. So you can contact me at goldengateone@webtv.net As times go by the truth of the person prevails. For me, although I know about Sifu Buck Sam Kong myself, I still respect the Sifu, but I would'nt learn from him. That's just my input, towards Sifu Buck Sam Kong, take care

so is it the same if we pass a funeral parlor instead of see a funeral procession?? we stop?? and just walk pass it?? i'm still confused...

Mak Hin Fai sifu and Buck Sam Kong Sifu was once teaching at the same place probably at the main Headquarters at the Houghtailing street area. In Honolulu, Hawaii. Originally Kong Sifu owned the place and let Mak Hin Fai sifu used the place for his Choy Li Fut classes, and the lion dance class.

As times went by alot of Sifu Kong's students wanted to learn Choy Li Fut instead of Hung Gar. So, the friendship between these 2 sifus was'nt good at all. Sifu kong accused sifu mak for stealing his students. But, it's up to the students to decide who they want to learn from. So sifu Mak moved the classes to the Mitsukoshi building in Waikiki, which is in Honolulu. This happened many years ago. One day there was an incident with 5 samoan mens. Mak Fai students ran away because they were scared, probably just beginners. So they left Sifu Mak alone. And Sifu Mak was just attacked by these 5 samoan men. Mak Sifu survived the confrontations. So he was good in his Choy Li Fut. The samoan men who attacked him probably was allright, to run away. From there sifu mak moved to the mainland, in seatle, to run his Choy Li Fut classes and the traditional lion dance. My good friend and other people that I know personally, told me this story. Sifu Mak was'nt the type of person to fight. He was good in performing kung fu or lion dance, or both. But, I guess when he could'nt prevent a fight from happening, by talking his way out then. He had to do what he had to do. Ofcoarse, he had troubles at the cultural plaza too, when he did lion dancing with his group, they just avoided the trouble by just walking away. Then if he could'nt avoid trouble, well he had to take care of it, the best way he knew how. If he can't talk his way out of trouble, then he's going to have to push and shove. But sifu Mak was and still is a good lion dancer. My good friend still knows the moves he learned from Sifu Mak Fai. He uses the moves when he dances with his kung fu/lion dance club. All this things happened when mak sifu was still living in Honolulu, Hawaii. Take care.

Buck Sam Kong did learn Choy Li Fut from Sifu Lee Koon Hung. But probably was into learning only Choy Li Fut kung fu. Instead of the lion dance. So that's probably why he hired Sifu Mak Hin Fai, to teach the lion dance. Take care

didn't mean to confuse u I never had the situation where we bless stores that had funeral palor on that same block. so i don't have answer for your question.

I was just saying that we are in Chinatown and a funeral procession is marching through, we stop the drum,cybols, etc

Depends.....

Is there a Chinese Funeral going on.....Well if any kind of funeral is going on, you should be respectful and not play outside. I would lower the sound of the drum and walk the lion past the funeral parlor quickly. However, if it is a Chinese funeral, you must not play near the parlor at all. There is a reason that a funeral lion covers all its red decoration and its shield for a Chinese funeral. Hiding the red is a way to take away "happiness" from the lion. The shield is a mirror, and in Chinese funerals, the spirit is free from the body and is affraid of its own reflection. Therefore, the mirror on the lion's head is covered. So, if you're walking with the lion outside during a Chinese funeral, you may scare that spirit away.

On the other hand, if there's no funeral going on, there shouldn't be anything special about the place. Some parlors have an alter, be it Christian or whatever. You don't have to stop to pay respects. Its just like walking by a store that might have an alter inside. If you have no reason to go in the store, you definitely need not pay respects to their alter.

Those are my beliefs......it all really depends on your own personal beliefs....

Hi Shifu Eduann! welcome to the list,hope you will have a nice learning experience like I have.

Arnold

Hi Ernie,

I just want to add some personal experience about my contacts with Lawrence.

I was also contacted by Lawrence Ng and had corresponded with him through many e-mails. Even though we're not buying any thing from him at this time but he offer to help answer my questions about liondancing. He had replyied to every messages that I have sent him. Through his e-mail, he sounded very sincer, warm, practicle and very knowledgable about liondancing. I believe he is a trust-worthy person to do business with. I have seen many pictures of his lion heads (he send them to me on my request)...they looked really nice but I have not used it so I still do not know how light and or strong it is....I hope to try one soon.

I am glad you were able to resolve your order through Lawrence. Good luck to you and your club.

Happy holidays to all...and like someone mentioned earlier, make sure you rest well because the Lunar New Year is just right around the cornner after this short break! :-D

Cheers,

DVo

Hi Geoff,

I don't know if someone else has answered you about why a monk would eat oyster on occasion....

I have been studying Buddhism for about 10 years now and I might be able to shed some light onto this...

Personally, not knowing what leanage the monk is practicing, i can't tell for sure but there are a few ways of practicing Monkhood. One of which allows Monk to consume meat...this is because during the days when the Buddha is still alive, he and his pupils would go around town (around noon every day) seeking for donations (Vietnamese term: Kha('c Thu+.c)... At the end of the Kha('c Thu+.c hours, he and his pupils would pray for the foods and would consume it. With that said, what ever was given to them in their bowl, they are allow to consume (even if it has checken or ducks). The Buddha allows this because it is the people's good heart that they donated the food...it would be very sinful if they dump it all away just because it is not vegetarian.....the thing is, the Buddha teach his pupils to consume the meal as a meal and be greatful to those who give you that meal...be it meat or vegetables, the pupils should consume the foods with a clear mind. That is why we see some Monk eat food just like you and me today.

This point was very confusing to me at first too....But I've learned that it is the mind and heart that really counts.

Anyways...I hope I had made this clear...or are you even more confused after this preply? :-)

....so how have you been? Is your school doing any performance around here this season?

Vo Minh Duc

Hi All,

I am really sorry about my previous post to Geoff...I meant to send it to him but have accidentally send it to the list....please excuse my post.

I'll try to be more careful next time. :-|

Thankx,

Vo Minh Duc

Does anyone know good places to find fortune/ sun balls (separate and on pole) for northern dance/ dragon dance? thanks

Siu Lung

Thanx every one. Please, just call me Eduann (o: or Ed :o).

Are there anyone else from Africa?

Regards
Eduann

This is not a direct response to goldengateone but just a general comment for the list. Although we can respect others opinions about a sifu, we should not propogate hearsay.

I have never met Buck Sam Kong so I can not say whether these "comments" are true or not. I can say that I have spoken to two of his senior students, Don Hamby and Martha Burr and they only have great things to say about Kong Sifu. I've also spoken to Lum Jo (his Sifu in Hong Kong) and he has good things to say about him as well.

I'm not saying we can't say negative things but I am saying that they should be first hand or you should state the source so people know what you are referring to. For instance, many folks have said negative things about my Sifu, Wing Lam, on internet discussion groups but when the sources are revealed, we have found them to be unsubstantiated or from disgruntled people.

Again, this is not against goldengateone because the post was very respectful ande he later explains some of the details in a different email.

However, just mentioning "negative" and "controversies" will leave doubts about a long time Sifu that has many students which can not be proven or disproved because no exact details were given.

Bottom line, public service announcements like the one about Peter Seen should be encouraged since they are first hand and can be verified. Plus they protect the general public. Indirect smears of people really serve no purpose.

Stephen

Hi All,

Yes...I agree with Stephen...likeing a si-fu or not really has more to do with the personality of the student. The only cases for notifying the general public would be in the case of a si-fu who was only pretending to be one or one who was cheating or hurting his students...and this is not the case with Kong, si-fu. Being a si-fu myself...some students like you and stay, others do not and leave, some stay because they like the art, some cannot handle the discipline...there are many reasons for students staying or leaving, likeing or dislikeing the si-fu. Also lets keep in mind that si-fu will at times discipline a student for numerous reasons and/or dismiss them from the Training Hall...for which the student(s) may start to spread slander Lets not get into slanderous hearsay and gossip. If a positive purpose is achieveable to the list, like someone not fullfilling an order on more than one occassion...then it is morally right to notify the list.

All the Best!
'Kam' - Wes Cameron, si-fu

Fellow Lion Dancers, The dream that I had actually came true. It was during the chinese new year festival in Hawaii. It happened at the Pearl City Shopping Center. When I was still involved with this kung fu/lion dance club. Anyway, the performance started at the other side of the shopping center, mainly at the bank of hawaii. Then proceeded through different stores, and businesses, like dentist offices. Then we went to the other side of the shopping center, and we began blessing the leeward bowling alley, and proceeded to the former holiday mart store which is a grocery and department store. And now Daiei Pearl City. The best part was when I was playing the lion's tail, and I ended dancing through parts of the store. And people in Hawaii, especially when they saw a lion dancing, regardless of school or club. They would get excited and especially when we were playing with fireworks. Although it happened many years ago. I still remember the dream. From the dream I began fantasizing it in my head. And I guess my good friend was playing the lion's head or another member of the club. But the performance was great. From the Daiei pearl city we went back to the other side of the shopping center. Because, we were divided into 2 groups. So we went and met with the other groups of lion dancers. And ofcoarse, we also had a kung fu demo , and we were also treated to dinner by this House of Dragon Chop Suey in the pearl city shopping center area. The End, although it's a late reply to the dream topic. Better late than never at all.

Take Care Bye.

Laine

Greetings

Anyone knows why competitions are always based on Poles?? Why are there not ground competitions??

I'm not saying poles are not challenging and that it does not require skill and practice but I find it repetitive... They all begin to look the same... At least on ground competition there are A LOT of varieties. Why doesn't Genting have one of those based on Poles and one based on ground...

Hi everybody,

I would like to wish all of you and your families, well over this great festive time of the year. Have a good Christmas, and a happy new year. Whether you celebrate Christmas, Chanukah or Ramadan (Eid Greeting), I wish you all well.

Regards
From a very Hot and Sunny South Africa
Eduann Barnard

Hi All,

Holiday Greetings from a cold and snowy Canada!

All the Best for the Holiday Season and wishing you all Peace and Happiness!

'Kam' - Wes Cameron, si-fu

I second that Si Fu Kam! hahaha.

And a happy Solstice!

peace, well being and happiness through all seasons to all of you.

David Jamieson