Hi all-

I've been talking with a member of the Yau Kung Moon in SF and for some reason he doesn't want to be added to the list. But he asked me if anyone on the list was interested in exchanging photos with him via regular snail mail. Drop me a note and I'll get back to him.

Also since there was some interest on the list in getting Singapore style heads, I mentioned to him that their heads looked good and might he be able to suggest a source. Well, he says they get their regular heads from all different places, countries, etc depending on their budget at the time, but that their contact for the Singapore heads is kept a secret. How do you like that? 8)

I just got this info from a lion dancer at UC Davis - does anyone else in the Bay area know of this event coming up in August? Sounds like something worth making a trip up there to see.

>A few of us help out each August in San Francisco to raise funds for the
>elderly (Self-Help for the Elderly) We join Sifu Tim Wong's group (Tim Wong
>was a long time student of Lai Hung) and participate in the city-wide fund
>raising event. Gungfu and Liondance schools spread out all over the town and
>perform lion dances at hundreds of businesses all day long. Afterwards there
>is always a big demonstration and group liondance at Portsmith Square.
>If you are in the City this August (the 15th??), look us up.

BTW - I think that he means Portsmouth Square just outside of Chinatown.

Chris

I have performed in this event before. When the groups go around to the stores, there's really not much to see. As you can imagine, after the first few stores, it can get pretty tiring and most of the time, the groups simply do 3 bows and move on to the next store.

The demonstration at the end of the day is probably more worthwhile to see (hopefully, the teams have some energy left). Sometimes the groups perform simultaneously (including the music) so it's hard to pick up a distinct drum beat and things consequently look and sound a little disorganized. I believe in recent years they have tried to have each group perform individually. Yau Kung Moon usually performs in this event, and yes, they do seem to keep things under wrap.

Greg

This is the first place that I have ever found any info on the LION DANCE. I have done the Northern Lion Dance in Hawaii at the Chinese Cultural Center for Chinese New Year. It was a very pleasant experience. I learned it at Dr. Lily Siou's School of the Six Chinese Arts in Hawaii.

If you find any other info on the Lion Dance, please contact me. Thank you for your consideration.

Is there anybody else out there who really likes playing the buddha to showcase their style's martial arts? Ever seen any groups perform any good routines with their buddhas? If this is you, what kinds of things do you do, and how did you learn how to perform the buddha? What makes it fun for you?

I am encouraged by what I see, so far, as an open attitude among members of the list server thus far. I know many groups across the US who guard their 'secrets' jealously and keep mum on many issues, including equipment sources, drum beats, etc. It is my opinion that we Lion Dancers need to help break this secretive and ultimately self-defeating type of attitudes. We will learn the most by being open, creative, honest, and constructively critical of each other. That's my opinion. I have met those who do not share it.

I hope that this group will remain open and constructive.

Thanks for letting me take the soapbox. I'm done now.

-Robert

> I've been talking with a member of the Yau Kung Moon in SF and for some
> reason he doesn't want to be added to the list. But he asked me if anyone
> on the list was interested in exchanging photos with him via regular snail
> mail. Drop me a note and I'll get back to him.

I don't have any photos to trade per se. I'd like to see what photos anyone has. Keep posting them on the web pages. They are great!

> Also since there was some interest on the list in getting Singapore style
> heads, I mentioned to him that their heads looked good and might he be able
> to suggest a source. Well, he says they get their regular heads from all
> different places, countries, etc depending on their budget at the time, but
> that their contact for the Singapore heads is kept a secret. How do you
> like that? 8)

It's too bad that the guy from Yau Kung Moon doesn't want to share his stuff. They have one of the best lion Dance troops in this area if not the country.

As far as Singapore/Malaysia lions go. I looked at some old pictures from when I was there during chinese new year. I see both styles of lion heads. (Fatshan and Hokshan) I also know two people that are Lion Dance instuctors in Malaysia and Singapore. (unfortunately they are not on email and are good friends of good friends kind of thing) I have not discussed anything with them since I didn't want to go through the hassle unless I knew I would be in the position of purchasing. If anyone on this list is interested though, I wouldn't mind getting critical mass and pursuing. One thing about the pictures I have. These lions are very nicely made. Lots of designs and flowing materials. I've seen Cory's Lions and these are of the quality of your Red lion if not better.

My school right now is getting ready to buy equipment real soon but we are looking at some of our old contacts before we venture into uncharted ground. My impression there aren't any local (SF BAY) sources for good equipment. Only OK equipment. Is that right?

Well that's it for now.

Stephen.

Hey all-

I'm in the process of setting up another hompeage - this one strictly dedicated to lion dancing stuff. So far it's got the same basic information as what was on my homepage, and I added the archives of the mail list. Eventually I'd like to have all kinds of other things like the FAQ if it ever gets put together, a list of places to buy equipment, and maybe even some .wav files of music or .mpg files of actual performances. I also took some pic's off of various homepages (hope you guys don't mind).

Check it out when you get a free moment - http://www.oocities.org/Tokyo/3430

Let me know what you think and what else to put up.

Thanx,
Chris

>I don't have any photos to trade per se. I'd like to see what photos anyone
>has. Keep posting them on the web pages. They are great!

If you run out of room on your server, email them to me and I'll post them on the new lion dance page I'm working on! Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner anymore or else I'd offer to scan them in too.

>It's too bad that the guy from Yau Kung Moon doesn't want to share his
>stuff. They have one of the best lion Dance troops in this area if not
>the country.

Actually he explained it to me better - he has email from work, but can't log in unless he's working on a project that requires it. Otherwise they lock-out their system. The project he was working on is scheduled to end tomorrow, so actually I won't have contact with him anymore either unless he gets assigned another project that lets him log in.

Corey -
You might have more info on him, since you were interested in exchanging photos with the YKM guy. I sent him your info, did he ever get back to you?

>My impression there aren't any local (SF BAY) sources for good equipment. Only
>OK equipment. Is that right?

Personally, I haven't found a source for good equipment anywhere in California - San Francisco, Los Angeles, or San Diego.

Hi i am a new subcriber to this group.

Kiley Wong age=16
email address= Luvly8@, Crazyguy91
Chicago illinois, U.S.A
Hung Ching Athletic Association
White Crane, White Eyebrow
Southern Lion
Danced 6yrs

I would like to know if any of you have waves of the lion dancing drums, because i just want to see how our drum playing style differ, if you have it please give it to me please.
Thank you . and i look further to discussing with everyone.

BIG DISCLAIMER: I'm looking for opinions and though we will seriously consider the opinions given, there is no guarantee anything will be used or done with them.

That said, I'm looking to see if a lion Dance seminar was held,

1) Would you go to it?
2) What would you want to learn? Expect?
3) How much would you be willing to pay?
4) Would you be willing to bring your own head? For a discount?

Assume it was held locally to you and you were available to attend.

A little background. Most of you may not know but the Wing Lam lion dance team was started by our Si-Sook who is now in Texas. I won't go into credentials but he went to texas with no students and this last Chinese New Year did a co-ordinated 9 lion dance on a 16 foot bridge of pots, boards and benches. It was televised by several local stations. He is an expert in Hung Gar Kung Fu and Hung Gar lion dance. He is also knowledgable about other styles of Lion dance.

We have been in contact with him and he has agreed in concept to coming back out here and teaching a 2 day seminar. Given this scenario, I want your opinions to the above questions. Most interesting to me is #3 since we have to make it worth his effort. I have seen seminars from $50-$200 for half day things. (kung Fu) We were thinking about $100 for an 8 hour seminar spanned across 2 days.

Again none of this is certain but the level of your response will be one of the determining factors of whether or not we attempt to make this happen.

Thanks in Advance for your response.

Stephen

>I am encouraged by what I see, so far, as an open attitude among members
>of the list server thus far. I know many groups across the US who guard
>their 'secrets' jealously and keep mum on many issues, including
>equipment sources, drum beats, etc. It is my opinion that we Lion
>Dancers need to help break this secretive and ultimately self-defeating
>type of attitudes. We will learn the most by being open, creative,
>honest, and constructively critical of each other. That's my opinion. I
>have met those who do not share it.
>
>I hope that this group will remain open and constructive.
>
>Thanks for letting me take the soapbox. I'm done now.

Amen.

When more and more people start thinking this way, then lion dancing can be appreciated by more people because most everyone's overall level of lion dancing will improve. Sure, everyone who lion dances should feel proud of their group and their special routines-nothing wrong with that. But a little humility and a little sharing go a long way too. If every gung fu master or lion dance master kept just a little something to himself, then in time the art we love would become so diluted it wouldn't be much different from putting on a horse costume like they have in the Three Stooges.

For those who have been lion dancing for awhile, think back to when you first started. Where would our skill levels be if our teachers hadn't unselfishly given of their time and talents? How good would we be if we didn't learn the "little secrets" that had to be passed down directly from teacher to student? And for those of us in the position of teaching others, we should also ask ourselves this question: What if I don't teach the skills I know to new, eager students? What will ultimately happen to those skills I spent so long developing and perfecting?

They'll be gone.

If we love lion dancing as much as we say we do, and if we're in it not just for our own personal glory but to preserve and spread the art-then please, share what you know with people who are interested. When I'm old, I don't want to see lion dancing that looks like a hollow shell of what it used to be. Who else is going to help to preserve and protect this rich cultural treasure? No one but ALL of us.

Practice hard.

Corey

Attention... Chinese martial arts practitioner...

Han Wei is currently planning to create a World Wide Web World Kungfu/Wushu Directory Search Engine

If you own a school or currently belongs to a kungfu/wushu school, we would like to put you into our World's Kungfu/Wushu Directory Listing. Just respond to the following requested information and we will set it up FREE OF CHARGE. If you want to have a picture/photo to be included with your listing, you are welcome to add it in for a fee of $5 per picture.

Anyone who have access to a Web-Browser can search through the directory to locate a school through any word that is listed. There is no FEE to pay, it is a free service for all except for the inclusion of pictures.

Please respond the following form back by clicking at REPLY option of your email program or back to wushu@hawken.edu. Pictures can be FTPed to hanwei.com (longon as anonymous), mail or email uuencoded to us at wushu@hawken.edu (Please mail check or money order payable to Han Wei for each picture - limited to 2 pictures per school).

The Directory listing will have an extended search engine to search through any possible word that is included in the listing (e.i. City, part of school's name, or style, etc).

For more information, please contact Han Wei by emailing back...

=================================================================
Please write next to the question or a line underneath. Thank you
=================================================================

Instructor's Name:
Rank:
School:
Address(1):
(2):
City:
State:
Zip:

School's Telephone:
School's Fax #:
Month(s)/Year(s) in operation:
Average # of students:

Email Address:

HTTP URL (no need to include the prefix of http://)
Homepage: http://
Webpage (other than homepage): http://

Main System/Style:

Additional Style(s)/System(s) Teach:

Affiliated/Associated grandmaster(s):

Description of main system (7 lines maximum)

Does your main have a traceable lineage?

Class average rate: $

Does your school have a Lion Dance Team?
Does your school teaches Lion Dance?

Does your school teaches:
San Da/Lei Tai/San Shou Full Contact?
Chinese medicine?
Chinese caligraphy?
Chinese music/instrument?
Chinese language?
Chinese custom?
Other?

Include Picture ($5 each)?
How many?

Pictures will be scanned in color placed next to your directory listing. Make check or money order payable to Han Wei, 3216 Payne Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44114.

Pictures can be ftped anonymously HANWEI.COM or mailed it directly to us.
--
Look at the wonders of the nature and you will feel insignificant
Look at the inventions of the humans and you will feel insignificant
Only when merge your body and soul into the nature, you will discover
wisdom, love, peace, intelligence, power to overcome ur obstacles...

Hi All,

first of all: could everyone please put something like "LDL" in the subject line, I'm on a couple of other lists and sometimes I get about 100+ e-mails a day.. :-(
It would be easier to get to the important Liondance messages..:-)

Next: I'm working on a faq, but I'm going to need a lot of help. First of all, since it is a faq: what questions should be answered? I've put a setup for that at:
www.et.tudelft.nl/~wingchun/Lionfaq.html

Any questions that you think are missing?
Any questions that you think are redundant?

Feel free to add info, just mail it to the list, so we can discuss it and when we all agree I'll put it up.
If you want I'll put your name and e-mail in the faq.

Rob Teng
http://www.et.tudelft.nl/~wingchun/Welcome.html
"the silence is never louder than now..." Marillion

Hey Steve, you made Malaysia sound like a lot of fun too--up until that ghost town part! Haha. Yes, I did your message about the survey last week, but I was busy trying to stay behind at work! Also, I wanted to give your questions the consideration they deserve.

1) Would you go to it?
Let's just say I wouldn't say "no" as my first response. I've always wanted to attend something like this where I could learn a lot about lion dancing. But before I say "yes" I need to ask myself some other questions. Questions like:

4) Would you be willing to bring your own head?ŠwellŠ
For a discount?ŠYes!

3) How much would you be willing to pay?
To fly out from Texas and to make it worth the Sifu's effort, heck yeah he deserves to make some money. After all, it's his time plus all the time and hard work he put into attaining his level of expertise. The amount you guys are considering ($100 for 8 hours over 2 days) is fair and reasonable. Certainly doable for most students. $200 may price the seminar out of range for some students-even if they are dedicated and willing to practice hard.

2) What would you want to learn? Expect?
If I were to consider going to a seminar, I'd like to make sure that there would be at least some sort of organized schedule that would be followed. If the instructor could flexibly change his/her schedule that day according to the abilities of the class that would be a big plus too. Other questions I'd ask myself first would be:

1. Is there a limit on the number of attendees? If not, how will I receive individualized instruction?
2. Will the Sifu himself be teaching all of the time, or will the class mostly be taught by his/her students?
3. What happens if there are attendees who have very different levels of experience? Will the levels be separated into different class sections?
4. Do the attendees have any opportunity to give input as to the things they want to learn? For example, what if some students are most interested in learning music, or playing the buddha, or learning new puzzles?

Wishing you much success in putting on the seminar! Keep us all informed! And thanks.

Corey

Okay, I guess it's back to the old style of putting "LDL" on the subject line again! =)

> 1) Would you go to it?
> 2) What would you want to learn? Expect?
> 3) How much would you be willing to pay?
> 4) Would you be willing to bring your own head? For a discount?
>
>Assume it was held locally to you and you were available to attend.

1) Taking the above assumption into consideration, yes!

2) Agree with Corey's response on the level of the attendee determining the content. Personally I'd like to learn puzzles and drumming.

3) $100 is very reasonable for an 8 hour/2 day seminar. I have been asked by others if a California area get together was possible, and this 2 day event might be a great opportunity for that in addition to 4 hours of instruction each day.

4) Depends on travel accomodations - will I be able to pack a head in whatever vehicle I'll be going in or will the cost of shipping a head from San Diego be more than the discount? It would be a consideration though.

>Next: I'm working on a faq, but I'm going to need a lot of help.
>First of all, since it is a faq: what questions should be answered?

Looks like a very good start on the questions so far - when this semester is over, I'll have more time to help out answering some of the questions - It'll be a few weeks though. In the mean time, you could put links up to the various articles that have already been written on the topics.

>Any questions that you think are missing?

Something on the distinction between Northern & Southern lions. Also "Isn't that a dragon?"

Oh yeah, for more info on the list you can direct people to me (clow@mail.sdsu.edu), or to the url:
http://www.oocities.org/Tokyo/3430/lioninfo.html

Here's a question for the list readers: Dr. Hu's book mentions instruments like clappers and other percussion instruments, anyone ever use these in a performance, or is it all just the basic 3 instruments (drum, cymbals, gong)?

>I sent you some bios on me should I send it to
>Liondandce@mail.sdsu.edu instead. Will you edit it and send it through?

I forgot I was going to do that for you - sorry! Sure, as soon as I get a chance I'll find the file and re-send it. No problem!

Here it is:

Name: Layton Doung (Jung or Tsang)
Age : Middle Age (always 39)
First Lion dance in the back yard with a throw away lion my older brother picked up after a Chinese New Year parade. (I only remenber this because my dad taped it on 8mm)

First trainning; got to Lion Dance with the Golden Lion in the S.F. New year's parade as a teenager. In High School fellow Classmates formed our own Lion dance team called the Hevenly Lions. Had formal Martial Arts training with Sifu Lai Hung. Spent one summer with Lion Dancers in Taiwan(Liang Guang) Been teaching children lion dancing for the last five years. Most of my student are active in the Chinese Immursion Program. (this program teaches Cantonese to non- native speakers)

>Here's a question for the list readers: Dr. Hu's book mentions instruments
>like clappers and other percussion instruments, anyone ever use these in a
>performance, or is it all just the basic 3 instruments (drum, cymbals, gong)?

Hi Chris,

There's a group I perform with called the Golden Shadows Performing Arts Troupe. Their music is BAD! I wish I could claim that I was part of the drumming section, but I always need to play the lion or the buddha when I perform with them. That's a thrill for me and all the other performers, because it's so easy to keep moving to their music. We don't get tired so quickly, and it just makes the lion dance so much better. Because some of them are also semi-professional musicians performing in nightclubs with various bands around the Bay Area, they're pretty creative with their music. Most of their music is played on their three basic instruments. But each one of their instruments was individually chosen by a member of the group who visited Clarion Music Center in San Francisco's Chinatown. Mr. Ma (the owner) patiently indulged him as he banged each and every gong in the store before some were selected. The Golden Shadows percussionists play several different gongs during a performance, not always all of them at the same time. They also incorporate percussion sticks, frog mouths (those red "dok dok" sounding monk things), as well as other instruments.

Jeff Chan, their drummer, knows his drum so well that he can get at least 4 or 5 different sounds from the drum face alone because he has located what he calls the drum's "sweet spots". To my untrained ear, it sounds like he's playing two or three different drums! Some of us are probably also doing this too, but if you aren't sure where your drum's sweet spots are, try hitting different spots all over the drum's face. If you ever get a chance to listen to their music when they play with a full crew, do it-they're so different! I've been dancing with them for over ten years now, but all I want to do is play music with them. Well, that's not all I want to do, I love dancing too, but dang-they sound so cool!