Hey John or nyone else who knows about the Malaysian Lions,

We get some lions from Foshan China which are cheap and used be pretty unattractive. However, recently, we've had some success in customizing our orders with them. We'ce sent them photos or illustrations with color combinations that we want and they've done a pretty good job in duplicating with quite a bit of accuracy. What I'd like to know is how long are the tails that the Malaysian lions use to perform? Being that it is a southern lion playing in the northern style, there is a lot of holding on to the head player's waste and so the tails are generally shorter. The typical southern tail is 8 or 10 feet long. What is the length of the competition style lions. Is it closer to six feet (or 2 meters)? Just wondering because we might try and see if the Foshan factory can make a shorter tail.

Sherman

Hi guys,

just as someone mentioned, I've been far too busy lion dancing, and after that with an attempt to clean up the mess from all the pieces of my studies at Uni, catching up and all that.

On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Sherman Wong wrote:
> That is why the southern lion has a mirror on its forehead and lights in
> its eyes. The light resembles that the lion's eyes have been opened
> with a spirit and the shield reflects the good light from the heavens.

I thought the mirror and shiny little pieces on the cloth were to reflect the image of any passing evil ghost, who would see himself and be scared of by its own uglyness..?

Glad to hear you mention the lights in the eyes,.. In December there was a Chinese sports day (well, tennis etc, but for the Chinese youths in the Netherlands) and it was opened with a Lion and Dragondance ceremony,.. About 8 or 10 lions and a dragon. The dragon was painted with stuff that would show up under blacklights (this was all in a very large gym-hall),..And so, during the dance, the lights were turned off,... revealing that only our lion had lights in its eyes. Very cool! I don't know why the other lions didn't have lights though...

I'll try to get a picture of some northern lions on my page, asap. I'll let you know. (I do have quite a nice one, just have to get around to it... wait and see:-)

Armel, what liondance group are you with? Were you at the ceremony for the start of the new lion dance organisation in Noord Holland, december 1996? Mail privately to: teng@ljouwert.et.tudelft.nl

Greets

Rob Teng

Well, after a long silence I decided to take a break from all that's keeping me from being more active on the list and send a msg to all of you fellow lion dancers.

To all of the new people - welcome! Don't be discouraged by the seeming lack of activity on this list recently. I'm sure we're all very busy, but still very interested in hearing from you about your lion dance experiences and are reading and thinking about the questions you ask.

When we first started this mail list, it was kind of like an experiment to see who was out there and was interested enough in lion dancing to participate on the list. I think there were originally only about five of us, but now we've grown to include people from all over the world - every continent except Antartica, Africa, and South America!

As long as there are people interested in lion dancing, this list will continue to be a resource in finding information about it!

Keep on lion dancing!

Chris Low

Unfortunately this year I didn't get a chance to do much lion dancing with my group in San Diego, since I moved to Pasadena to go to school, but I did make it up north to San Francisco (The center of lion dancing in the US, in my opinion) in time to see the Chinese New Year Parade!

Some very good groups were represented there -

Saw Layton's group, the Yellow River Drummers, near the beginning of the parade - great job!

Was impressed by this group called "Jung Ngai" who played 10 drums in unison while their lions danced through the parade.

Big shots, like Sifu Tat Mau Wong and Sifu Doc Fai Wong of course were represented (I think I saw Leung's White Crane Acadamy there too, but I'm not sure).

Yau Kung Moon had an impressive 11 lion dance along with their dragon.

And there was even a group there (I'm sorry, I forget the name - was it Ching Mo?) that did a performance with the traditional long southern style tails and without the "furry pants" of the northern/mixed style lions.

The San Francisco Police Department Lion Dance Team also did a performance on top of a fire truck near the beginning of the parade.

We got to watch the bandstand performances, but even still, there's not much "lion dancing" going on during a parade. It was exciting to see all of these groups though.

The parade itself seemed long and I had to leave early so if your group was in it and I left you out, I'm sorry! Was anyone on this list in it? Does anyone have any good stories to tell from this past lion dance season? Let's hear them!

Chris Low

Hi!

I'm wondering are there any lion dancers from Vancouver, Canada in this mailing list?

It seems to me that most of the lion dancers are from the US.

Johnny Chan

Thanks Chris! Did you see the tall guy on top of the Sears float with the painted eyebrows. That's me. The float was and added to our group just 3 weeks before the parade. To bad I could not get one of those giant drums from Northern China. The Chinese Music store on Waverly has one on display but cost over $3,000. If I knew you where coming up I would have invited you to (siu yea) after the parade with our group. None of us lion dance anymore but some of my team love to talk about the old day. (ex -lion dancers)

>Was impressed by this group called "Jung Ngai" who played 10 drums in
>unison while their lions danced through the parade.

I love it when ever I can see girls beating the drum. It is not confirmed but was told this group just came back from a Parade in Nice France.

>Big shots, like Sifu Tat Mau Wong and Sifu Doc Fai Wong of course wre
>represented (I think I saw Leung's White Crane Acadamy there too, but I'm
>not sure).

Traditionally Leung's White Crane gets the end of the parade with the long Golden Dragon. As always they do the Lion on the long pole.

>Yau Kung Moon had an impressive 11 lion dance along with their dragon.

I only got to see them on TV. But with their furry pants and short bodies the lions look like stout Kirin. Almost like real animals walking down the street.. I like the way Sung has a large team of cymbal and gong player (maybe 10 or 12 playing together) it is hard to hear it on TV.

>The San Francisco Police Department Lion Dance Team also did a performance
>on top of a fire truck near the beginning of the parade.

Missed the fire truck it was not on tv. I hear White crane was suppose to video their long lion dance set before the parade at the tv site. Just incase the tv people needed to fill time at the end of the parade. I am not sure if this happend or not but it would have been a nice show to watch with out the crowds before the parade. We do a lot of things to please the tv and sponsors of the parade.

>We got to watch the bandstand performances, but even still, there's not
>much "lion dancing" going on during a parade. It was exciting to see all
>of these groups though.

In june Tat Wong is having his Lion Dance Tournment. He is building a Web page with more info. "1997 Internatonal Chinese Martial Arts Championships"

> Tat Wong's Lion Dance Competition is Friday, June 20th.
> Sat, 6/2lst = Masters Exhibitions\ hand forms, weapons,
> and sparring competition .
> Sun. 6/22 = more sparring, Tai Chi, Wushu

This is all I have so far.

One change I noticed is there are many small children ( 6 to 8) who love to lion dance. I guess the influence of you big guys and the small Lion heads makes this possible. I also joined a team on the south bay to do show in the grade schools for Chinese New year. Fremont, Cupertino and Saratoga. Wow lot's of Mandarin speaker in the south bay now. Many from Taiwan and PRC.

Bernard Ortiz-de-Montellano wrote:
> > If you get a chance, read Dr. Hu's writings on the Kai Kuang ceremony.
> Where is Dr. Hu's writings avaliable? And, are they translated into
> English?

Bernard, the book is in English. Its a full size (approx. 9" x 12") book thats four hundred pages long and has a yellow cover with an illustration of a man holding the lion. It's called Chinese Lion Dance Explained. If you have trouble finding a copy, I have a few copies and wouldn't mind sending you one. The cover price is $54.95. I had touble finding copies of the book in Hawaii so I got them direct from the publisher. We were also able to get Dr. Hu to do a special autograph thing because he is a former member of our club. So now I have a few extra copies of the book and if you'd like me to send you one, let me know. We're not commercial sellers, our club just bought a lot so that we could get it out to our own members. I'm sure though, that you might be able to find it in NY. The name of the publisher is Ars Ceramica and it is distributed by Keramos in Michigan.

Good Luck!

Happy dancing.

Sherman

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 19:50:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Skyrink@
To: clow@mail.sdsu.edu
Subject: No Subject

Dear Fellow Lion Dancer,

I've been lion dancing for sometime. I'm interested in finding video tapes and books on lion dancing. I found one book called Lion Dance Explained by William C. Hu. It is very informative. I'm wondering if you can e-mail me a location where I can find this information. You can reach me by e-mail. It is Skyrink@aol.com

Thank you

Sincerely,

Frank Lew
Skyrink@aol.com

Please be sure that when you want a msg posted to the list you send it to liondance@mail.sdsu.edu (there was supposed to be a new address, but this one still works fine). Thanks!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:12:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Jglao@
To: chrislow@fuller.edu
Subject: Re: Lion Dancing Explained(fwd)

On the Internet it is www.wle.com, Wing Lam Enterprises I forget the street address, but it is at the web site. They sell the book for about $50.

John Gallagher

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:32:07 -0500 (EST)
From: NAHUHH@
Subject: Found your web sight!!!!!

I just found your web sight!! I Just LOVED it!

I have studied Shaolin, Northern Dragon Style for three years now. I am just starting to Dance the Lion Heads now.. I have however worked on fixing the Heads and Tails for my entire Training..... I was interested in starting a business on fixing heads for other groups?! I strengthen the existing head do touch up paint and work on new heads so they will last... I have also done major reconstruction work to repair heads that are worth the $$$ to fix.. My theory is why go out and blow $500-$800 on a head and then break it through one season? I can fix and repair it but better yet I can Make it LAST!!!!

Any way the other thing I wanted to discuss with you is that I was unable to subscribe to that list of Lion Dancing?! Could you please put my name on it?!

Thank You for your time!!!! Please feel free to e-mail me back with any questions!!!!

Jennifer

This was originally sent to me but I think it was meant for the list...My questions at the end.

> From: Bernard Ortiz-de-Montellano
> Stephen Chew wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bernard,
> >
> > Welcome to the list. It's been quiet. I bet everyone has
> > been busy with New Year festivities. Folks on the list,
> > lets hear the stories? I didn't get to particpate this
> > year but I saw some decent shows. Nothing spectacular though.
> It sure has been quiet.. one would think that with all the activities
> surrounding New Years that someone would have something to talk
> about, but maybe it's because we are still performing them? I don't
> know.
> > This is pretty common. Some folks here aren't tied to Kung Fu schools
> > but community groups. We all share a love in lion dancing and spreading
> > it around.
> The East coast has a very different attitude towards Lion dancing, I am
> discovering (and from reading some of the past letters in the list,
> this is an old topic..) that the people that Lion dance here are almost
> all Martial artists of some flavor (with a few exceptions). Many of
> us choose the Lion dance as a method of expression of our art - being
> that it would be illegal to practice the art itself on the general
> public (for some odd reason, people just don't appreciate the various
> broken limbs, disrupted joints, eye gouges, etc) There are some who
> have chosen to learn the dances because of the cultural aspect. Maybe
> they are Chinese, or of Chinese descent. It doesn't really matter,
> in my opinion. The more people that learn the dance for whatever
> reason,
> the better.
>
> > Tell of your experiences. How did the different teams work
> > together. I hear New York throws a big celebration but us in
> > California don't get to hear much about it.
> The celebration in New York this year was toned down quite a bit.
> The mayor had outlawed the fireworks, and this year, they were strictly
> enforcing that. This largely muted the celebration, but the noise from
> the drums, cymbols and gong were quite dominating! From what I
> understand,
> there were 14 martial arts schools participating in the events. I only
> saw a few of them, as our route did not cross many of the other school's
> paths. We did "meet" and "greet" our brother school - my Sifu's Sifu's
> school.
> I have that passing on tape! Anyway, we started relatively early -
> about
> 10:30am, and went until about 5pm. We wound our way through the
> streets.
> Most of the stores simply wanted a simple dance, so we did our 3 short
> bows,
> a little ditty, and moved on. We had a test (that I know of) where the
> greens were placed in a red bag hung from a rope. It was almost as if
> they had expected us to not be able to finish this test, from the looks
> on their faces! One thing of note is that our school is almost entirely
> non-Chinese. The instructor's name is McCoy, so when the shop owners
> got the
> card, they were higly amused at the "foreigners" wanting to dance for
> them.
> This was the first time we were allowed to dance as our own school. In
> previous years, we had danced with our brother school, and wore their
> colors.
>
> I know that there were lots of intricate formalities that we had to
> observe,
> and the ones I am aware of are probably only touching the surface.
> Twice
> during the routes, we had to cross another school, and we almost got cut
> off
> by the hung gar school (with about 200 members!!).. we had to "sneak" by
> them,
> and continue on our route while they waited for their performances to
> finish.
> Some of the schools really had elaborate displays! (That hung gar
> school had
> some incredible artwork, a dragon, two lions, and looked *very* sharp!)
> It
> would have been interesting to have been able to watch the other schools
> perform, but as I was in uniform, that would not have been a wise thing
> to
> do. I did note that they were very aggressive in their movements of the
> head,
> which meant that they tired rapidly, and had to change head people
> often. We
> had 3 people for each head, and we each had to share the load. Thus, we
> were
> *very* exhausted by the end of all of this. During the dance, I spent
> time as
> the tail (opened) and was the head for a while, and then played the gong
> and
> cymbals for a bit. My arms were so exhausted that when we got back to
> the
> school, and I had to drive home, that was a challange!!!
>
> > No offense to those who don't have a martial arts background but
> > I think the Lion is much more powerful and alive when solid stances
> > and powerful movements are used. Performing Lion dance in this
> > fashion not only makes for a good dance but improves your stance
> > work and your ability to generate power and speed.
> I couldn't agree more. Obviously, a martial background isn't required,
> but it certainly helps! Other backgrounds like gymnastics come in handy
> for some of the tricks that are performed. Some people just have a
> natural tendancy for the moves, and others don't. It just means that
> people's progress on the head will vary from person to person, just like
> anything else.
>
> Bernard

Benard,

what did you do when you "crossed" another lion?

Also, do you know who the Hung Gar school was?

Just curious.

Stephen.

Crossing paths of other lion groups.

In Hawaii, we are all peace-oriented groups so we do not have great rivalries which lead to confrontations. In fact, we all realize how hard every group is working so there's no use in putting in all the extra work to show that your group is better than the next. Part of the reason we all co-exist peacfully is that most of the groups broke off from the original Jeng Moo school (or Chinese Physical Culture Assn).

When we cross paths we always bow our heads three times. If we want to be playful, we circle around the head and run the mouth along the other lions back to symbolize one lion grooming the other.

There are some things we are not told to do. The lion, when greeting another lion, does not blink the eyes or lift the leg. This symbolizes that you want to physically challenge the other lion. We all know how expensive lions are so we don't want to get into a "head-banging" contest. (Although they do make black lions with metal horns especially for that purpose.) Another thing we do not do is circle behind the lion and walk between the lion and its drum. The drum symbolizes the lions' life rhythem and it is not polite to separate the two. The drum can also represent the club's sifu and therefore, you should not cut off another club's sifu from his lion.

just some "passing thoughts"...

Sherman