Stephen Chew wrote:
> Does anyone have experiences with equiping a
> truck to carry the band?

Our school uses the truck to carry the equipment from one site to another. At the site, we will pull the drum. (I assume that this is how most troups do it?) In NYC, I did see a few groups that had much more complicated set ups, but the trucks were hand pulled and were really carts. But, they had just the band on it, the flags were hand carried.

> One big questions is how do you hold the flags in
> place? We do not have a dedicated truck so our
> implementation would have to allow for removal of
> the flags without permanent damage to the truck.

I saw the suggestion of the weopons rack.. that sounds like a great idea!!! You could take a standard rack, and tie it to the front of the car. I've seen people do this with pvc poles for fishing - they'd have about 6-8 poles tied in a horizontal bundle, strapped to the front of the car (usually, with some space there to place a cooler). The back of most pickups have tie downs where you could use bungee cords to secure the racks, if you chose to place them in back.

> Another question, is there a problem with the drum
> moving around? Our stand has wheels.

As stated in another message, you could block the wheels, or tie down the stand. When we transport the drum, we sometimes use a van that's big enough to fit the drum and the stand. When we've done this, we've used bungee cords to tie down the drum and stand, and it doesn't go anywhere.

Yes, I can imagine, this would be a great excercise for practicing your root, as the truck lurches back and forth and the drummer is concentrating on the lion.

Regards,

Bernard

Hi everyone,

In order to transport equipment, we usually just rent a U-haul. As for parades and stuff, we once performed at the Dallas Cowboys victory parade last year. (*sidenote: I'm not a Cowboys fan. I'm not even much of a football fan. It was just a job we were comissioned to do. Please don't flame me. (= ) Anway, we put the drum on a stand and pulled it around for fourty five minutes. My Si-Hing and I were under the Lion for the entire time, and it was exhausting. It was nice that we were able to do those things, but I'm glad we didn't do it this year. (=

J. Minh Nguyen

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. It's good to know there are still alot of you out there :-)

Let's hear those Chinese New Year stories.

As for the truck issue. I wasn't too clear. This not a point A to point B problem.

Sometimes we are asked to "generate interest" for a shopping mall by drumming around the area. We usually pull the drum along like a parade. We start at the farthest end of the area and go to the store.

My thought, (which could be wrong too), is that it is too slow to do it this way. If we walk at parade speed, people aren't going to follow us around. If we try to go faster, it looks really bad. In Chinatown, the groups all have pickup trucks that have the band playing and flags flowing. They drive around the block a few times and get everyone excited before they actually start their show. It's impressive too.

I'm pretty sure we can "live and learn" but I wanted to get the collective liondance alias to help. :-) I already like the "weapons rack" idea and the caution about driving speed.

Thanks to all of you for keeping the list alive.

Stephen.

Hi -Paul

What happen to the gong from the caddy.. I love it.. Great idea! I thing this inovation is good. Have you heard about the group STOMP.

Prices for cymbal can range from $25 to 100.. Depending on thickness quality and style. Usually the heavier the more exspensive. Weight plays a big part in the cost if they come from the Orient. Problem with cymbals is sooner or later with use the thinner ones will crack and split. Sound gets really bad.

Gongs last forever but cost over $100 and good one cost 175 on up. Again Weight is the factor. Gongs like the drum seem to get better with age and use.

layton

Yes Layton,

The fighting lion is a black lion with short bristle-like black hair. Sometimes the elders consider a red-bearded lion as a fighting lion as well. The fighting lions are fit with metal horns used to spear at other lion heads. The lion is supposed to be pretty ugly and comes with broken ears. I don't know of any groups with this type of lion but the stories about it are pretty common with the elders. If you want to see some lion fighting(although not this black fighting lion in particular), you should watch some of the Wong Fei Hung movies. In fact, I recall in one of them, there was a special lion head made of copper that they would take by the tail and swing the head at the enemies. There was also a huge lion head that took four guys to carry the head and it would basically swallow up the other lions. I also remember one of the movies which had a giant centipede made of metal. It was kind of like a dragon dancing through the streets but it seemed to be indestructable until the end (didn't mean to give away the ending).

I loved those Wong Fei Hung movies.

Please, all you lion dancers, get along with each other. I hate to see a beautiful and expensive lion being banged up for stupid egotistical reasons.

Respect one another.

Peace....

Sherman

Hey everyone.

Thanks for all the replies to how much the equipment will cost. I hoping that the allocations board for my school will give me at least half! Expensive equipment!!! I thought that our $530 lion head from China was expensive! Oh well.

Anyways, to answer some questions, my team isn't associated with any Chinese or Vietnamese Students Associations (that's VSA.) It's totally independent now that we're chartered. I believe we're the only collegiate Lion Dance group in the Boston area if not in New England. There are certainly many more teams that aren't university associated though...I would say I've seen about 3 or 4 different teams. I'm sure there are more.

My team actually has about 20 members. Since we're new I have people floating in and out of participation. How we're learning the drums and movements?? Heh..we pretty much watch and learn. In fact our favorite movies right now are Wong Fei Hung's movies. We also have a couple of lion dance 'veterans' who can do the drum pretty well although I'm sure that they don't really know what are three star and five star. Well..maybe they do but don't know the names. We pretty much just do a combination of Northern and Southern styles...I think most people do that. My knowledge of styles is pretty limited, but its pretty traditional. We're just basing all our moves on dances that we've seen as kids.

About transporting equipment...haha...I make multiple trips with my little sports coupe!

Oh yeah, the fender off the caddy was used to produce the sounds usually generated by the cymbals and gong. It worked quite well actually...too bad we lost it after the performance.

-Paul

Hi folks.

Dr. Hu is coming to town he will be giving lecture on Kung Fu>>>. is it art or science... it will be in chinatown friday April 4th 7:00 to 9:00 pm. If your intrested write me and I will try to get you a pass. I will be on vacation starting the March 31 so get back to me soon if your intrested. thanks.

Hi layton,

I swear I posted to the list answering all those questions...o well.

The gong (fender) from the caddy was lost right after we performed. It's unfortunate because the fender produced a really nice sound.

What's this group STOMP? They don't play with parts from junkyards do they?

Our group has been invited to perform along with a local lion dance group composed of Boy Scouts. Is there anything that we should keep in mind while we're performing with them? You know...to avoid starting a brawl with the Boy Scouts. =) I pretty much know about the "keeping your head level with the other head" and "sifus shaking hands and exchanging tokens of good gestures".

Thanks alot! =)

-Paul
Brandeis University

Hi paul,

Sorry I must have missed the detail about the caddy. But yes a group originally from the UK is touring the us.. In fact I think there are 3 or 4 teams doing the same show. People say it will be another CAT's or Chorus Line.

Eight percussionist use brooms,metal sinks, garbage cans etc. for an hour and a half. Straight up and entertained. The beats and sounds they produce are wild. Not alway loud but some soft sounds with newspapers, match boxes, claping hands and body parts. I was told the same performers did a commercial for Coke. But I have yet to see it. Catch it if your into drumming.

Sounds like your safe with the Boy Scouts. Respect for the Lion and each other is the key.

It buggs me so much when I see groups lay lions on their side or I have even seen lions set down for a perfromace and the mouth is folded under. How uncomfortable to have your mouth bent back like that. yech.

For some reason I see the Lion as a live spirit.

layton

hi guys and gals,

Paul wrote>>>
>"Oh yes, what kind of paint do you use when you write letters on your
>equipment? I'm thinking...nailpolish...

I been using a Hi-gloss enamel paint for the drum and. But it was hard to find nice Chinese Characters.

I had to pay a Chinese artist to make a stencil for me. Even tho I can write chinese it is hard to find someone to write the Characters in large brush strokes. There is a new way today with the stick on vinyl letters. If you can find nice Chinese Characters the sign people can enlarge it and then cut the vinyl letters in any color you want. Placement on the drum or other equipment is easy because the words are already lined up. Some groups are getting away from the traditional black lion drums. I've seen gold and red and even green drums. Some groups seem to like the idea of bringing their beat up taddered drum. Not only for the sound but it's rugged look. ( been through it ... been there... a vet... old and wise))

Paul Nail polish is very good paint with lot's of colors but cost is high and the brush is small.. Any one seen the paint job on the Korean Drums. Looks like and Janpnese tatoo. Wild stuff.

Anyone try the new mailing paper that will not tear to repair a Lion yet? You can get it from the PO.

layton

layton wrote:
> It buggs me so much when I see groups lay lions on their side or I have even
> seen lions set down for a perfromace and the mouth is folded under. How
> uncomfortable to have your mouth bent back like that. yech.

I can't agree with you more. Other clubs will throw the heads in the van on its back or side. Sometimes, they even stack one head directly on top another. The elders in our club have always told us to place the lion comfortably in the van just as though it was alive and had feelings. Even when putting the lions in the closet on the shelf, we should never place it facing the wall. How would you like to be stuck facing the wall for a long time? For the same reason, I hate seeing people playing the lion fast and recklessly. It is totally offensive to me to see lion heads being slammed into walls and furniture and even other lion heads just because people think it looks cool to play fast and they can show off how strong they are.

Lions should always be treated gracefully....

Sherman

IMHO, if someone is out there attempting to perform the lion dance, and treating the lions with disrespect, they should be told to stop their dancing.

As martial artists, we respect each other for the hard work we put in to our respective arts. As Lion dancers, we should do the same, not just for each other, but for the lions as well. The Lion has powerful symbolism, and if not treated with respect, will bring bad fortune to those with the disrespect.

just my 0.02 cents..

Bernard

Folks,

While we're on the topic of treating lion heads with respect, which I couldn't agree with more, I would also like to say that we should treat ALL the equipment used in lion dancing with respect. I always hate to see people sitting on top of the drum, stepping on cymbals or gongs, and throwing uniforms around as if the equipment can be easily replaced/repaired. In my experience, all of the lion dance equipment is rather expensive, and furthermore, it's hard to get. For those of us in the US (and I'm sure for most of us outside Asia), we have to either import equipment through a painstaking process or travel to Asia and search for equipment. Another option, of course, is to buy some of the equipment at an import/export store, but even in this case, I know that the equipment is not easily found. Regardless of how we obtain equipment, I know that it takes a great amount of care and effort to maintain and repair everything.

As for people playing the head fast and recklessly, this may have a lot to do with the older style of lion dancing seen in kung fu movies. I feel that the more controlled/choreographed style of lion dancing is a much better way to perform the lion dance, although as others have said, we should respect how other groups perform the lion dance. We should remember that other groups are at different levels of experience and all groups have different ways of performing the lion dance; there is no one correct way to perform it.

Well, these are just my thoughts...

Greg

Dan you wrote.. # 5 #5.I think the cantonese institution that affected the lion dance the most would be Choy Lee Fut.

Why is this ... ??/ I come from a Choy Lee Fut school in San Francisco. But I never thought we make any big changes to Lion Dancing. At the current time in History Yau Gong Mun and White Crane here in San Francisco are the innovators. And then there is always Singapore and Malaysia. We always hear about sifu Stow(?)

layton

Hey everyone,

J. Minh Nguyen You wrote>>>>>
>Regarding Malaysia being the innovators of lion dancing, especially
>H.P. Siow, he is a practitioner of Choy Li Fut. Just a tidbit.

Nguyen thanks for the tidbit.

Do you have any other details about H. P. Siow . What city in Malaysia Is he in and what is the name of his school. What branch of CLF does he come from????

thanks

layton

Kirby,Tim,

I've also bought a lion head from Connie at Darwell. Very nice people. There drums are a good buy too. too bad they don't carry the gongs and cymbals too.

I belive most of their lion tails are long and I made the mistake of not making it shorter before the blessing. (Kai Kwang) Now we have a short lion tail folded under a seam. Our seamstress did not want to cut the lion tail after it was alive. No use bucking the system for a little less weight and maybe some bad luck..

Any one out there ever repaired a drum. ??? Taiko drummer have direction on how to make drums with wine barrels.. I am sure it is cheaper to just buy the drums from darwell.. But like anything if you make it from scratch it has more meaning.

http://www.taiko.com/barrel.html

layton

welcome Ron.

How did the festival go in Toronto???? On your web page you mentioned the The National Lion Dance of the United States.. Which group is that and from what city do they come from?

And the National Dragon team from China. What kind of Dragon do they use? Small and bendable or the long giant type. I am looking for more news on the fancy dragon teams..

thanks.

Do you have the Iron and Silk sifu in Toronto now??? I think his name was pan ??

help with this one guys..???

layton.

At 06:31 PM 9/4/97 +0000, Andy Kaps wrote:
>Hi - I'm currently drumming with a liondance team in Northern
>California. Our 24" drum has a very high pitch. Does anyone know if
>the skin head can be detuned so that the pitch is a little lower?

Hi Andy,

Yes it can be .. moisture or dampness will soften the drum skin. but make sure you do not hit the drum when the skin is soft. I think the taiko drum web page or the Mendicino music store web page has a article on tunning the drum. I will try to find that for you.

Is this a new drum. We usually have the problem with our drums getting flat. IN the fog or rainy weather them we have to get the hair drier or hope it is sunny outside. Some drum troupes start a fire before a gig to tune the drum heads tight.. It is not very easy to start a camp fire in the city.

good drumming Layton.

Any one else see Jackey Chan do the Lion dance drum for the China/HK take over. (97 lions )gold drum and Jackey so serious. A very important position to drum for 97 lions.

Andy I found the link for tuning the drum

www.mhs.mendocino.k12,ca.us/...ness/retail/larknet/artdrumheadcare

it is along address you may have to go to Lark in the morning or Mendocino.... drum care

good hunting. layton

A Chinese music group is having a show this Sat Oct 4th at the Chinese Cultural Center( Holiday Inn Chinatown.. 2pm

The group is call the Melody of China.. WWW.melodyofchina.com

All pros from China (6 from Nan Jing and one from Beijing)

The pro Drummer is from Beijing his name is Pu Hai.. The focus for this concert is Strings and flutes but I think Pu Hai is playing some of his pieces.

Tickets are 10 for adults and 8 for senior and kids.

I have a few tickets left if your interested.

*** Also every sat at the park their is a free show at 4pm.. until Nov.22. Check the pink section to see who is playing .. Sometime wu shu or Lion dancing. last week was White Crane, Yellow River Drummers and Jade( famous female Magician)

Next week Yau goog moon.

thanks Layton

hi Andy.. here is the link for drum tuning..

hey I know I do it when I hold the drum stick to drum.. tight fist and wack the drum as hard as I can.. But I met a pro Chinese drummer from Beijing...

He teaching us to use just two fingers thumb and index to control the drum sticks. The other three fingers are just to grip the stick..

Thumbs have to be in line with the drum stick and no gaps between the thumb and index finger when you hold the stick.. yes there is a gap or opening with the index finger and thumb.. unless you have very long fingers or very thin sticks.. This will no make any sense unless you have a drum stick in you hand..

thumbs are the key to this system of control with the stick. all wrist..

layton

http://www.mhs.mendocino.k12.ca.us/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/articles

At 05:56 AM 6/23/97 +0000, Paul Barrington wrote:
>I am restoring a traditional Chinese lion for lion dancing. I would very
>much appreciate any info you might have on books , resources etc.

hi Paul,

try to get Dr. William Hu book called Chinese Lion Dance Explained... 400 pages to answer all your questions.. but how to repair a lion head in America...

Use strapping tape... I like to use white glue and newspaper... but try the white paper from the post office..Priority Mail envelopes.. The paper will not tear but I do not know how well paint will stick to it.. Let me know if you try it...

Fix the structure of the frame first.. strip bamboo if you can find it or wood bbq stick could work..

Patch with glue and paper.. then paint.. fur could be rabbit fur strips with a razor and glued..

Let me know if this helps. layton

Hello,

My name is Tyler Phan (a youth counselor for the Orange County Probation Dept.) I am searching for a lion head and drum distributor so I could make an order. I am trying to start a dance unit conjuction with gang prevention. Please send information of the nearest distributors in southern California (i.e., LA, Orange County, Long Beach). Thank you for your time and help. I am glad to find your site on the net.

Please correspond to the following addresses:

E-mail: TylerPhan@
cybderdrummer@

Employer: Orange County Youth & Family Services
2101 E. Fourth St. Suite 170-B
Santa Ana, CA 92705