Hi Tyler! One of the places I know of in LA Chinatown is a place called Sincere Imports - I don't have the exact address right off hand, but can look it up for you if you need it. Last time I checked their storefront they had about 5 lions and a small drum. They said they had much more equipment in their warehouse just a few blocks away. The heads were going for about $375, and seemed to be very light. Don't know how strong they would be, but I don't think they'd stand up well under very vigorous use. The tails were $250 for the medium length (around 7feet). Don't remember what the drum cost. You could also contact the LA CCBA to see where they get their equipment.

Good luck with the kids! Youth work is tough - I do some myself.

Chris Low

P.S. I'm in Pasadena, but would be interested in meeting with you when you get your group together - email me and let me know how things turn out!

At 06:12 AM 6/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I have a question about drumming. I've just started learning, and it's
>not as easy as si hing makes it look! I don't know how different schools
>differ in there drumming beats, but I know that different schools sound
>different. I am learning some basic beats which haven't been too hard,
>like the two-five. I am having some trouble with the six-four though.. if
>anyone has heard of this kind of beat, could you provide any hints on how
>to play it properly?

Sounds like your si-hing is one of those drummers who changes the beats every other time. That is being creative but it hard for you to learn with the changes. Try to find a system to write the beats down. Audio or video tape it. Then write it down and keep checking with your si-hing if it is right or not.

You need to be able to say the beats in your head before you can play them and it would not hurt if the right left stroke order of the hands are the same.

good luck ..layton

At 03:45 PM 8/28/97 +0000, Ng Chee Hong wrote:
>Well before I bore all of you all, I have a question which I hope
>you can solve for me. Presently, I have one lion-head which is
>beyond salvage and is due for disposal. Is there any specific
>procedure to follow before disposing of the lion-head? My instructor
>told me it is best to burn it as it had undergone the "Kai Guang"
>ceremony. What is the normal procedure before burning the lion-head??

According to Dr. Hu " You can fold a few Yuen Bo into the shape of Chinese gold Ingots. then place the Lion head on top withe some paper money and burn. He felt there are only a few people in Hawaii who still do this.

This was a verbal answer via David Lei and the Chinese Performing Art Foundation. thank.

hi Stephen,

sorry for the confusions on the thumbs and sticks. Even tho this drummer is a pro he is not a lion dance drummer. 99% of the Lion dance drummer I have seen do not use the thumbs.

In fact for Lion dancing and the martial arts connection It could be a bad habit.. The new students always have trouble holding tight fist and keeping their thumbs under control and tucked into a fist. When using a spear you sometimes use the index finger to get more control of the long shaft.

For pro Chinese drummer he wants you to use your thumbs pointing to the end of the drum stick.. Thumbs must touch the knuckle at the base of the index finger.. the tip of the index finger does not touch the thumb at all. IF it can it will only touch the base of the thumb..

position looks more like a Chinese number one .. thumbs up .. When you hold a stick , the base of the thumb has to close the webbed gap between the thumb and index finger.

>I usually use a grip like the A-OK sign and slide the stick
>thought the hole made by the index and thumb. The stick is
>cupped by the index finger.

The finger do not touch tip to tip.

you also need to swing the stick as far back as you can using only the wrist. small muscles in the wrist should start to buzzz if your doing it right.. One stick hits the drum the other should be pulled back as far as you can go..

layton

>When I drum, the key is to hold the sticks as loose as possible without
>having them fly out of your hands. If you grip them too tight, you
>will not take advantage of the bounce back and you will tire quickly.
>
>Also important is to keep your elbows down. This keeps the sticks
>in line.
>
>For Lion Dance, you should also be in a Ma Bo (Horse Stance) while
>drumming but this doesn't help the drummer just works him out :-)
>
>> Thumbs have to be in line with the drum stick and no gaps between the
>> thumb and index finger when you hold the stick.. yes there is a gap or
>> opening with the index finger and thumb.. unless you have very long fingers
>> or very thin sticks.. This will no make any sense unless you have a drum
>> stick in you hand..
>>
>I didn't get this. The two lines contradict themselves.
>Gap or no gap? Is the index finger cupping the stick and the
>thumb is on top?
>
>I usually use a grip like the A-OK sign and slide the stick
>throught the hole made by the index and thumb. The stick is
>cupped by the index finger.
>
>> thumbs are the key to this system of control with the stick. all wrist..
>>
>Definitely a lot of wrist.
>
>Stephen.

Hi everyone,

After meeting with our incredibly stingy allocations board, they have finally decided to pay for our drum. The only problem is that I can't find one around here!

I'm wondering if anyone on the list knows of a place that can ship one to Boston quick and cheap. I'm looking for a very inexpensive drum in the range of $350 if possible. If a price quote is available, I'm sure the school will drum up the money somehow.

Oh yes, what kind of paint do you use when you write letters on your equipment? I'm thinking...nailpolish...

-Paul
Brandeis University

Can anyone help this person out?

Rob Teng

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 17:15:14 -0500 (EST)
From: HannsST@aol.com
Subject: liondance

hi!

greetings from germany. the reason why i write this email to you is a problem with my father. uups sorry, not with my father, with the lion of my father. the lion needs a new cloth, and so we are looking for an address or info where we can buy/get a new one. so, thats the reason. my father is a shaolin kempo wu shu teacher with a couple of black belts and all this stuff and now he and his martial arts followers are into the lion dance. so perhaps you can help us and give us a short info where we can get a new cape for the lion. in advance thanks a lot and i hope to hear from you soon.

hanns

hannsst@aol.com
hanns stresius
forbachstrasse 14
47229 duisburg
germany

Hello fellow lion dancers,

Just wanted to let you know I'm very busy, but I'll tell you how this New Years lion dancing was,...

First this:

To all in the Netherlands or Belgium: I wrote a bit on lion dancing for "Action Sports" and they printed it (well most of it). Hopefully this helps in educating the people about what "all these dragons are doing".

This year we were in the Rotterdam lion dance event, and I was later told it is the largest in Europe.... Over 14 lions, a dragon and all....Well, some of you have been in much larger events, but I know that for instance in London there are only about 6 lions, no dragon etc.

Anyway, our teacher couldn't make it to the beginning, but he instructed us to help out the other groups. Seems there is a lot of good understanding between the different schools, I understand that's not always the case, but fortunately here it is. We (6 of my Kung Fu brothers and I) first were asked to help out with the dragon. In the beginning I was walking around with a Phoenix on a stick, along with the dragon; There were 2 phoenix's, two large crabs, a couple of shrimps and two round things, on which I later recognized the characters for sun and moon. All on sticks, held up by people that got tricked in doing that. I don't know what the significance of all that is, maybe someone in this group does?? Later I helped perform the dragon. That was fun,..... for a while,...I had seen the (or a) Chinese team perform the dragon dance, which was very powerful, they really made the dragon look alive and fly. Now quite a few of the people who did the dragon dance in Rotterdam didn't have a clue what they were supposed to do, they just walked at just over average pace and moved the stick of the dragon part they held up and down. Every once in a while, the dragon would have to turn around to walk back, we mainly stayed in one large street. So at the turn we (on KF bro who was standing in front of me, second, I was third, 12 in total) tried to make them go faster etc, but the (fat Dutch) guy behind me refused and complained "hey I'm not 20 anymore". Didn't have a clue.... :-(Anyway, then our teacher came, and he told us to go get our lion head, and dance. First I had to find my KF brothers to dance with, ... They were already helping another team, who had 2 lions and drum, cymbals etc, but not enough crew to hang in there long enough (3 hours or so). So we helped out, at some point we also got our own head, ...We 'kidnapped' (just kidding :-) those two lions, added our own, and our sifu was playing their drums, and a KF bro was doing the cymbals... It was quite a full day, we got dinner in a very nice restaurant and that was that. Oh and tomorrow we have the afterparty, dinner again.

About the respect for the material, I started thinking about that when it was mentioned here, and came to realise we were never told to treat the lion or material with respect, but we always do. Probably because our sifu sets the right example, in how he treats the lionequipment. One of my KF brothers has an old lion at his place, it's patched up a couple of times, and only used for practise nowadays,.. Anyway, he told me he sometimes accidentaly hits/kicks it, well not really hit, but he's got a small place and when he works out on his dummy or fools around with spinning kicks or so and loses balance,...etc. he tends to apologize to it, forgetting it's not a person. ("Oh sorry, didn't mean to hurt you" :-)

Have to go on with my studies now, greets and happy dancing!

Rob Teng

At 01:32 AM 9/27/97 +0000, you wrote:
>J2wai@aol.com wrote:
>> Has anyone on the list every purchased any Lion equipment from Darwell? I
>> would like to hear your comments. Thanks
>I also bought a few lions from Darwell and had them shipped here to
>Hawaii. The ones you should look for are the one's Corine calls the
>Neon lions. They are also black, red and colorful but the painting is -
>in my opinion - nicer. They have a lot of "tiger stripe" patterns
>instead of the flaming swirly type patterns on the traditional fatsan
>lions. They also have the flat toothed mounths as opposed to the old
>style fatsan heads with the wire teeth. However, Corine only gets these
>Neon heads once or twice a year. She usually gets a shipment in around
>October or November and she usually sells out of the Neon lions by New
>Years.
>Corine was very helpful. She took photographs of all the lions and
>mailed them to me before I bought them. She also sold me a family of
>Northern lions. However, I don't think she carries any more Northern
>lions.
>--Sherman

Hi sherman,

Are you happy with your Northern Lions.. I saw thoese set a few years back but my wife talked me out of buying another toy.

Some made in China are suppose to be too heavy. I don't see enough of them to understand the difference. But some where bought for some of the Chinese Acrobats who are in the US. They refuse to use them because they said they were too heavy.. the Chinese Acrobats are some strong tough dudes.. But I guess If it is your daily job you want the right tools.

Layton

Hi all and Stephen,

Stephen it was me who sent the buzzz about Jacky and the 97 lions. He was so serious. Someone gave me a audio cassette of lion dance music bought from Vancover... It has a furry orange lion on the cover.. It is old 1993.

I am pretty sure the group playing on the tape is from Taiwan( Liang Guang) . Anyone one on the list have any news about them .. I spent a summer with this group many moons ago.

Any way their music is traditional but like to use two gongs the small one ( hi piched )and the large one. The small gong adds a nice off beat ryhthm to the music.. The small gong is so lould and high pitched it almost takes over..

Question. ???? how many other groups use two gongs..???

Layton

Hi there whoever is running this program please give me a call at "orientaldragon@bc1.com if you want to know more about anything to do with lion dancing. I do not want to brag but I have a very good knowledge of lion dancing cause I have watched it ever since I was 2yrs old,I am now 17yrs old and it is my 4th year of lion dancing.All self taught through years of astonishment.Also I would like to be a part of your 20 member liondance club for I feel I have plenty of knowledge and LIGHT to shed on wiery questioners so please e-mail me ASAP so maybe I could help answer all of those questions.I know many other pages that mention lion dancing under other categories that you might have not yet tried.Again please explain how I become a member of your lion dance club thank you orientaldragon@bc1.com

At 03:22 PM 10/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi - if anyone is in the San Francisco Bay area, I was wondering if you
>know of a good praying mantis kung fu school. I'm moving there and any
>help would be greatly appreciated.
>John

I know of a teacher from Taiwan named James Shun... He teaches in the outer sunset.. Irving street... Eight steps Praying Mantis. ( Ba Bu tang lang) I beleive the orgin of his system is from Shan Dong.( mountain east)

I also have a classmate who knows some southern Praying Mantis but his roots are in Choy Lei Fut.. His name is Timmy Wong.. His school is close to the Pink palace( Western Edition)

Of course you need to check them out your self and find out if it is rightfor you..

layton

Hi Jennifer,

>I will take down all the info and try to put together a list of names. OK ?
> Jennifer"

Thanks Jennifer for being our List Master.

Layton Doung

HI guys,

Dr. Hu in town again and has been asked to talk about Drumming.. The group that asks wants to know about Lion Dancing drumming .. But Dr. is going to talk about Chinese drumming Origins and History.. I am sure most of the group at the lecture is only interested in Lion Dance Drumming.. This is a topic Dr. Hu will not be able to avoid...

This Friday in Chinatown at 7:30pm.

Let me know if your interested. E-mail me for details...

layton

> Hi there whoever is running this program please give me a call at
> "orientaldragon@bc1.com if you want to know more about anything to do with

Hi there.

I'm not sure how you got infomraiton on the list but if you look at the website www.oocities.org/Tokyo/3430 you'll see that to start receiving posts from the list you just need to send an email Majordomo@mail.sdsu.edu and include the following in the body

subscribe liondance orientaldragon@bc1.com

I am not the list owner but I am an active member on the list. There are alot of poeple on the list now and we come from all different background and experiences.

If you have knowledge you want to share, let us know. You say that you have been lion dancing for 4 years and are self taught. Maybe you could give a more descriptive bio. For our bio's, you can read the archives. Some people on this list have been doing lion dance for more years than you have been around and others (like myself) have been doing it less then you.

We have people from all over the world and some are even Sifu's of championship lion dance teams. Is your style of lion dance based on any Kung Fu tradition and what are your sources? Also, I'd personally like to see the list of lion dance pages you might know of.

In any case, welcome to the list. We all like to share our lion dancing experiences. We'll look forward to hearing yours.

Stephen Chew

Greg I got you mail O.K. I'll take your advice.

#1. I think the 4 major stules in lion dancing are Canton (fut shan,hok shan)southern,Peking(northern),Unicorn (east),and Fukienese(west)

#2. I dont understand what you mean by "TOPNOTS" please mail back and explain in detail.

#3.The green nose I think Has to do with "PLUCKING OF THE GREENS"

#4.The lion dance is performed at funerals as a last farewell to make sure no evilness hinders the SIFU in the after world.About the dance If you by chance watch,Read chinese news a Master known as Wong Sifu past away about half a year ago and at his funeral he had Three (in chinese Liveliness) white lions,(white the colour signifying death)dancing to a very "SAD" drum beat not muchg 7 stars and they were put into the fire at the end..

#5.I think the cantonese institution that affected the lion dance the most would be Choy Lee Fut.

Dan

At 12:08 PM 4/10/97 +0200, you wrote:
Rob thanks for the tip..

About the horn on the top of the head I'm not qu ite sure but I think it has to do with the merging of 3 animals to create the lion 1.Unicorn,2.Dragon,3.lion. About the gold,red ribbons it has to do with Hoy Gong when the ribbon is tied it ensures safety to the lion like a gaurdian angel,the gold I am ????? but I know they put Look Youw Leaves with the horn somtimes as a blessing.

Dan

Hey all! I hope the lion dancing has been good for you all this year! A lot of things have been happening lately and I've been keeping busy as I'm sure we all have. Just a couple of things I wanted you to know - THE LIST ALMOST GOT SHUT DOWN!!!!!!! My account at SDSU wasn't supposed to close, but they got a new system administrator and he wanted to close all accounts of people that aren't at SDSU anymore. Since I graduated in May, that meant me and the liondance list too! I made a few phone calls and as it ended up I lost my personal email account but was able to save the lion dance list since there was interest about it from all over the world. I was told that ours is the only list that will be run by someone that's not still attending university at SDSU.

Of course this means that I lost my email account at sdsu, but I got a new one at ChrisLow@fuller.edu where I'm attending graduate school. So if you still have the old one, please change it.

More good news is that the list is constantly growing, and we welcome many new members who keep the discussions lively. The bad news of that is with all the stuff happening on the list, it's hard for me to keep up with it and haven't had a chance to update any of the web pages for about a year! I barely have time to read my email, and don't usually have a chance to respond to it. However I hope to write to the list at least once a month, and I'll get started on updating the "Lion's Den" website as soon as I can - starting with the archives of old messages. I think majordomo keeps an archive, but I've been checking the documentation that they sent me when I started the list and haven't found a way to access it yet. I'll keep you posted.

Until next month, Happy Lion Dancing!

Chris