Welcome, Dan! Thanks for helping keep the discussions lively - things had been looking quiet lately on the list...
Anyways, just my thoughts - I can't say what institution affected the development of lion dancing *THE MOST* but one that certainly helped the spread of it was the anti-Manchu revolutionary movement.
Like the mooncakes of an older time, the lion dance was used by the revolutionary movement to pass secret messages and identify fellow members of the movement. Dr. Hu's book also lists some of the changes made to lion dancing by the revolutionaries.
The affect of this union still goes on to today as I can trace my group's heritage from the "Chinese Consolodated Benevolent Association" today to the original tongs that consolodated to form it, and from the tongs to the Hung society that dates back to the time of the revolution and the destruction of the Shaolin Temple. (Or so the ledgend goes...)
I know that there's more to it than that, but this is a short version of the story.
Happy Lion Dancing!
Chris
Hi,
The institution (well, this is probably only one of many institutions) that has influenced the Southern lion dance is the Cantonese opera. The lion got much of its bright decoration from the opera. Also, there is some history about how the opera played a role in the Fut-shan region becoming a major lion dancing center.
Greg
At 04:02 PM 3/27/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>Dan you wrote.. # 5 #5.I think the cantonese institution that affected
>>the lion dance the most
>>would be Choy Lee Fut.
>Why is this ... ??/ I come from a Choy Lee Fut school in San Francisco.
>But I never thought we make any big changes to Lion Dancing. At the
>current time in History Yau Gong Mun and White Crane here in San Francisco
>are the innovators. And then there is always Singapore and Malaysia. We
>always hear about sifu Stow(?)
If I read the question correctly, I thought it said what institution affected the lion dance from the beginning of the lion dance history.
Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea because where a I lion dance the majority of teams are usually "CLF" so I just assumed. About "YKM" they do have a good history but I dont think they were around when lion dance started. What I am trying to say is that lion dancing came out of Kung Fu Right?? So "YKM" is actually a lion dance team started from breaking away from a Kung Fu club. Sure they still have ties to the club but where I am from they dont do Kung Fu at all just Dancing.
DAN
> From laay@ Thu Apr 10 15:55 PDT 1997
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:54:04 -0800
> To: Stephen Chew
>
> Stephen wrote: For our bio's, you can read the archives.
>
> How can I get to the ldl archives..
My bad. I saw the link to the archives on the web page and thought that's how you get to them but they seem to have only the very first months.
I don't know Majordomo well enough but doesn't it keep an archive?
Oh well. Chris, any ideas what we should do?
Stephen.
Actually, I never saaw the original questions but here's my two cents...
From a historical point of view, I have no idea which Kung Fu school really promoted Lion Dance. Choy Li Fut would be a good choice. But let's not forget Hung Gar Huen since it is the style that Wong Fei Hong taught. (and the one that I'm learning :-)
I've had a few high level Choy Li fut lion dancers coment that Hung Gar has more diverse drumming. Unfortunately, I'm a low level drummer so can't comment. Maybe Yeung Sifu can shed some light from the Hong Kong perspective.
All in all, I'm sure all the Southern schools had their influences. The lion dances tend to reflect their styles. I've seen a mantis style that is very different.
As for today, Yau Gung Moon in San Francisco is definitely a Kung Fu school. They enter many of the competitions. I believe the main school in Hong Kong is also.
In Malaysia, most of the great teams stem from White Crane. they are definitely Kung Fu schools and have some incredible fighters.
Hope that added to the discussion.
Stephen.
Greg
thank you for enlightening me I really appreciate it. About the lion questions like someone said "If you ask 10 different teachers you will get 10 Different answers"
about that whole opera thing I never heard about it but who knows I just may have learned something new.Along with the YKM being a kung fu club.
A bout the 4 styles of lion I did not understand the question but I do know for sure that there are 4 different lion dances (styles)Southern (fut shan/Hok shan), Peking (north) Unicorn(east), and Fukienese(west)
dan low wrote:
> about that whole opera thing I never heard about it but who knows I just
Yes, lion dancing did have its origins in the Chinese opera. That is where the southern lion got its colorful costume. Kung fu schools do dominate southern lion dance performing but they adopted it from the theatrical production. Northern lion dancing is still a very popular part of Chinese opera.
> A bout the 4 styles of lion I did not understand the question but I do know
> for sure that there are 4 different lion dances (styles)Southern (fut
> shan/Hok shan), Peking (north) Unicorn(east), and Fukienese(west)
Well, fut shan can be considered completely separate from hoh shan style. The heads are shaped differently and the movements are different and the tails are shorter. If you think more modernly, the Malaysians had a big part in creating a new style which is a blend of the southern lion playing in the northern style. This new Malaysian lion dance style seems to have caught on around the world and is now the most popular form in international competitions. Yau Gung Moon is one of the top lion dancing schools who brought the Malaysian style into the United States. Don't forget the other lion danced in the world. Japan and Okinawa have lion dances which are similar to the Northern lion dance because they originated from China. Korea also has their version of a lion which also came from China.
Dr. Hu's book has some background on different lion dances outside of China and also a lot about the origination of the lion. He also explains the hoy gong (kai kwang) ceremony and the significance of the red bibbon and gold leafs. It's worth a look.
Sherman
Hey everyone,
Regarding Malaysia being the innovators of lion dancing, especially H.P. Siow, he is a practitioner of Choy Li Fut. Just a tidbit.
Oh yeah, where can I go to get all the profiles of the members of this mailing list? Thanks. Take care!
J. Minh Nguyen
Hi whats up everyone this is Kiley wong From Chicago hung Ching, my old email address which is crazyguy1@juno.com havent been working so please send all mail to kileey123@aol.com, thanks, Are any of you from chicago or close by? Because i am interested in meeting you guys and talk more about stuff, ok thanks.
hi everyone This is Kiley, i discovered this site im not sure if you guys know yet but it has lots of photos, it is of the yees hung gar association, heres the address http://acweb.com/ben/hungga/lion.htm.
Hi Dan this is Kiley, about the sifu that passed away half a year ago you were talking about, i think you meant Kwan sifu and not Wong sifu. his name is Kwan Tak Hing and he portrayed wong fei hung in the old black and white movies and a few colored ones. He also invented many of his own kung fu such as his 10 pattern fist. Ok Thanks.
Kiley Wong, Hung Ching Association.
> Hi Dan this is Kiley, about the sifu that passed away half a year ago you
> were talking about, i think you meant Kwan sifu and not Wong sifu. his name
> is Kwan Tak Hing and he portrayed wong fei hung in the old black and white
> movies and a few colored ones. He also invented many of his own kung fu such
> as his 10 pattern fist. Ok Thanks.
I don't remember the original post but he could have also meant Sifu Lee Koon Hung, Tat-Mau Wong's Sifu who recently passed away and had a write up of his funeral in Inside Kung Fu.
There they talked about the lions entering on their knees and how they played very somber music. They had a picture of the scene as well.
I'm sure Kwan Sifu had a similar thing.
Stephen.
Thanx Kiley.
I knew that his name was something like tthat. Now I have support on my theory.
Also to Stephen what edition (month,Year) was that article in the kung fu magazine, I would really appreciate it if I could get this info. Dan
Does anyone out there have the names of Dr.Hu's Lion dance book because I am interested in getting that book and so I need the title of it. Also I would like to know the title of the lion dance video that is in Mandarin.. (formal names please,full titles)
Thanx
Dan
What Mandarin video are you refering to?
Dr. Hu's Book is called Lion Dancing Explained.
You can get it through the mail from Wing Lam Enterprises. Check out http://www.wle.com/page1.htm
Here's the excerpt:
----------------------
Lion Dancing Explained by William Hu (9" x 11", cloth, 410pp.) William Hu has been one of the most knowledgeable scholars in the martial arts since 1960. In the extraordinary work, Hu unravels the secrets of one of Kung Fu's most unique rituals, the Lion Dance. Never before has a book of this nature gone into so much depth! The origins of Lion Dance, its connection to Kung Fu, theater, and acrobatics, different forms of Lion Dance in different cultures, even its history and development in America is fully explained with informative text and detailed photos and illustrations. This is sure to be the classic reference for every martial library. B823: $54.95
----------------------
I know they have alot in stock. You can reach them at wlam@wle.com as well.
Stephen.
Thanx to all that helped me find the title of Dr. hu's book, John If you are interested I have 3 quarters of I think the 1994 Lion dance championships In hong kong.Mail me if you are interested..
Hello ,every lion dance lovers,
I am new in here.Let me introduce ,My name is Yung,a students in Hong Kong.I belong to H.K Yau Ku Moon ---Cheung Man Lion & Dragon Team.I have studying lion dance for about 6 years.
I have a home page which renewed the English page ,recently.if you are interested ,visit : " http://ecs.school.net.hk/~myyung " I have preparing the Chinese page .
I wonder if there are someone know Chinese words,because I am a Chinese,what problems I often face is translating the special terms of lion dancing ,in my home page.
regards
Hi, my name is Christopher Yee, 14 years old, from San Rafael, California, USA. I belong to the Marin Chinese Cultural Group Lion Dance Team. I don't know what style we do. I've been doing Lion Dancing for about 6 years.
hi Chris I'm DAN.
nice to have some new people on the list, guess I'll talk to ya later
DAN Low
here's a request I just got. Can anyone help him out?:
I would like to know if you have any clip arts or photo of Lion Dancing? I need one or two good ones to make flier. Please advise, thank you.
reply to: tyler m phan tylerphan@
Hi Mr. Phan.
I saw your request on the Lion Dance email list. Do you still need some help? If so, I gladly welcome you to visit my home page. There are some pictures there already, and you are free to download some of them.
http://www.isye.gatech.edu/~l_lin
I also have A LOT of other pictures from Dragon dance that are not yet made public on my WWW. These are pictures taken from this year's Chinese New Year celebration at Atlanta (Chamblee), Georgia. If you would like to use some of them, I can send them to you.
Finally -- I am forwarding this email to everyone else on the list so they can be aware of this availability, too.
Stay in touch & enjoy Lion Dancing!
p.s. Are you a drummer, agent or performer? I do both the drumming and the dancing in Atlanta area.
Larry S. Lin