Hi.. first time caller.

I just found this address from a lion dance link I found on the web.

My name is Geoff Hudson and I have been practicing Hung ga kung fu for about 7 years under sifu John Leong in Seattle. Recently, I have been going to lion dance practice to start learning more about the "whole" kung fu bit.. So far, I have practiced a little tail work for the norther and southern lion, and playing instruments, including very basic practice on the drum. That's about it.. nothing too exciting, eh?

Geoff

I have a question about drumming. I've just started learning, and it's not as easy as si hing makes it look! I don't know how different schools differ in there drumming beats, but I know that different schools sound different. I am learning some basic beats which haven't been too hard, like the two-five. I am having some trouble with the six-four though.. if anyone has heard of this kind of beat, could you provide any hints on how to play it properly?

Regards

Geoff

Dear Friends,

I am an instructor in Okinawan Kempo and Chuan Fa and am very interested in beginning a Lion Dance team within my school, however I have found information concerning this beautiful art to be elusive. I am hoping that some of you may be able to help me. I have a few questions. Please forgive me if some of them seem naive.

1. How did Lion Dancing begin?
2. Is it a martial art in itself or is it purely ceremonial?
3. Where do you get the lion? Can you buy one or do you have to build them yourself?
4. Can anyone recommend any good books about Lion Dancing?
5. What significance does the laughing Buddha have?

Please forgive me if I have offended anyone by my naive questions.

Humbly,
kcox
kcox@infoave.net

> Sounds like your si-hing is one of those drummers who changes the beats
> every other time.

Actually, my si jieh is teaching me. One of my si hing is also learning.

> the changes. Try to find a system to write the beats down. Audio or
> video tape it. Then write it down and keep checking with your si-hing if
> it is right or not.

My si jieh wrote it down using groups of dots.. but I think I could do better with some notation that uses some time concept. I wonder what drum music looks like?

g

On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Geoff and My wrote:
> My si jieh wrote it down using groups of dots.. but I think I could do
> better with some notation that uses some time concept. I wonder what
> drum music looks like?

Just a thought....I myself uses a numbering system I devise on my own (of course, nobody understand this except me, but it helps me to play it in my head more easily). I wonder if anyone else out there actually writes down drum music.

-lt

Hi everyone,

From what we learned from Kun Seng Keng a few years back, they write their drum beats down as well. There are four beats: Tak, Dum, Zhang, & Chek. The beats can be combined together, such as in the case of slow balancing: "dum zhang, dum zhang, dum zhang, ..." or Down Fighting: "Tak Dum Zhang-Zhang Zhang-Zhang, Tak Dum Zhang-Zhang Zhang-Zhang, Tak Dum Zhang-Zhang Zhang Zhang ..." There are actually symbols that we use for each note/beat. It's hard to explain through writing. The best way to learn is to have someone play the beats for you and then see the written notes. Thus, you have an image to accompany the beat. Just my two cents worth.

J. Minh Nguyen

> From: Geoff and My
> I have a question about drumming. I've just started learning, and it's
> not as easy as si hing makes it look! I don't know how different schools
> differ in there drumming beats, but I know that different schools sound
> different. I am learning some basic beats which haven't been too hard,
> like the two-five. I am having some trouble with the six-four though.. if
> anyone has heard of this kind of beat, could you provide any hints on how
> to play it properly?

Sorry to be so late on this one...

What is 6-4? The way I learned was to learn certain small patterns and then combine them together. Some names we got from our Si-Sook and others we just made up.

> From: John M Nguyen
> From what we learned from Kun Seng Keng a few years back, they write their
> drum beats down as well. There are four beats: Tak, Dum, Zhang, & Chek.
> The beats can be combined together, such as in the case of slow balancing:
> "dum zhang, dum zhang, dum zhang, ..." or Down Fighting: "Tak Dum
> Zhang-Zhang Zhang-Zhang, Tak Dum Zhang-Zhang Zhang-Zhang, Tak Dum
> Zhang-Zhang Zhang Zhang ..." There are actually symbols that we use for
> each note/beat. It's hard to explain through writing. The best way to
> learn is to have someone play the beats for you and then see the written
> notes. Thus, you have an image to accompany the beat. Just my two cents
> worth.

A great 2 cents! I have two questions.

1) What do the 4 beats translate to? Tak - side of drum, dum - center hit etc.

2) You mention down fighting, Do most of you out there tie music to movements? We strictly do. When I've seen other groups perform, I don't see this as much. I was wondering what others do. It goes with how we name our beats and patterns.

Stephen.

John M Nguyen wrote:
> From what we learned from Kun Seng Keng a few years back, they write their
> drum beats down as well. There are four beats: Tak, Dum, Zhang, & Chek.
> The beats can be combined together, such as in the case of slow balancing:
> "dum zhang, dum zhang, dum zhang, ..." or Down Fighting: "Tak Dum
> Zhang-Zhang Zhang-Zhang, Tak Dum Zhang-Zhang Zhang-Zhang, Tak Dum
> Zhang-Zhang Zhang Zhang ..." There are actually symbols that we use for
> each note/beat. It's hard to explain through writing. The best way to
> learn is to have someone play the beats for you and then see the written
> notes. Thus, you have an image to accompany the beat. Just my two cents
> worth.

Hi everyone,

We also learn the drum beats using the Kun Seng Keng's system devised by master H.P. Siow and it is very useful. However, we did need somebody who knew the actual drum beats to start us off. There are five distinct symbols for the different sound:

1. Tak ( hitting the side of the drum)--triangle
2. Dum ( hitting the drum by itself) ---filled circle
3. Zhang ( drum + cymbal)---empty circle
4. Chek (pressing the surface of the drum )-- comma (,)
5. "Heavy point" ( either a louder drum beat or cymbals without drum)--half-filled circled

Lines are used to join the symbols together to show that the beats are continuous.

I hope the above is useful.

George Chan,

Hello

I am restoring a traditional chinese lion for lion dancing. I would very much appreciate any info you might have on books , resources etc.

Thank you.

Paul B.

Hi, I've recently joined the mailing list. I am Lars Nooden and I practice in Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA) with the Asian Martial Arts Studio's Lion Dance Troupe here in Ann Arbor. We practice southern style lion dancing, though we did a performance of northern once. The southern lion is part of our training program here for the intermediate and senior students in Hung Gar kung fu.

I've been with the troupe since 1990 and we perform in and around southeastern Michigan. Most of our performances are for schools and cultural arts programs, but we have also performed in many parades and in resaurants for lunar new year and other occasions.

Lars Nooden ( lars@umich.edu | http://www.si.umich.edu/~lars/ )
Research Associate, Internet Public Library

Hi, Paul.

What part of the lion are you trying to repair? I hope none of the bamboo is broken. We have made major repairs on five of our lion heads over the last 10 or so years, but have not yet figured out lasting techniques. Plus, most repairs are increase the weight of the lion. Some of the lion heads that we use for practice have been reinforced in a few places with fiberglass on the inside. Cotton string and wood glue are good materials.

I agree with Layton that you should start with the frame. I emphasize further that you should start with the load bearing components of the frame first. Be sure that every joint is snug, but not too tight prohibit the frame from flexing. You will also need to ensure that the tension is symmetrical. (i.e. that the joints on one side of the head is as tight as the other) Take a bunch of picture of the head before you start so you can duplicate the paint work, etc. Are you going to strp the whole head down to the bare frame?

A note of caution regarding the book mentioned below. It is an interesting book, but examine it carefully before you purchase it. If you are looking for a coffee table book on lion dance and are not concerned with having an authoritative source, then it is an ok book. If you are looking for a reliable source or scholarly work, then look elsewhere; the only illustrations and quotations are cited are ones attributed to Dr. Hu or colleagues of his. The rest are not cited and are thus impractical to verify their authenticity or source. I recognized more than a few of the unattributed illustrations from some untranslated kung fu books.

-Lars