>As a common courtesy, if you are new to the list, please introduce yourself
>to the group by providing the following information about yourself:

Name: Ron Lavoie
age: 42
city: Toronto
province: Ontario
country: Canada

Although I am not a lion dancer (my art is Hombu style Aikido), I have an interest in lion dancing. I am the webmaster for the Toronto Lion Dance Festival:

http://ixtra.web2010.com/toronto-lion/

Our first festival will take place 31 August 1997, in Nathan Phillips Square, Toronto, Canada. Plans are already underway for next year's festival, with increased international participation. I *am* curious as to who on the list has heard about the festival and whether any of your groups are planning to attend/participate.

I would also like to know if a list of lion dance web sites is maintained somewhere and if any of the list members manage any of the sites.

Hi all

Just a little note to say that the CYSM (Chinese Youth Society Of Melb.) homepage hasn't prolly been accessable for quite a while now since my friend who had it has quit the course, so I'll try and get his files and some new photoes and put them up on my homepage..

I'll let you know when that happens..

bye!

The new URL for CYSM's homepage is

http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~wlau/CYSM.html

it has not been updated.. but i'll get some more photos scanned and off to wayne asap..

thanks

Hi!

My name is Hugo and I've been liondancing for about a year. I've been playing with Southern Lions and have experience in repairing and painting lions (I'm finishing off a black lion right now). I'm in Toronto, Ontario and study under Lee ChiWai Sifu in the CHung Wah Gung-Fu system.

Take care,

Hugo

ps- our school has a big show coming up in September (19). Anyone in the area?

Hello all,

As requested, here is new member info:

Eric Coles, age 39
New York, NY USA
School: New York Kung Fu
Style: Lama (Western) (Southern Lion)
Lion dancing experience: almost zero (practiced as back of lion once, practiced cymbals twice).

I'll be lurking about, don't expect to have much to contribute for a few years! :)

On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Geoff Hudson wrote:
> I noticed your e-mail address from the kung fu list. Glad your here on
> the lion list. It has some good info.. once in a while.. but there aren't
> many posts. Maybe a week with no posts! Not quite like the kung fu list!

Hi! Well, that's fine. I often have difficulty handling the volume on the k-f list. :) How about I start a thread...

How important are the specifics of a design on a lion? They're obviously important because they have to go with eachother and with the lion, but what is their importance in regards to the historical / symbolic significance? For example, the banner on the back of the head is a virility symbol, and the third eye shows wisdom etc.

Thanks,

Hugo

The "banner" on the back of the head with the painted Chinese characters usually tells the name of the school or the lion dance club. Sometimes it shows the last name of the teacher. Quite often, the Chinese words "sing see" (awakening lion) appear on either side of the biggest space in the center. And, one can sometimes find the name of the shop/factory that made the lion head in the bottom section.

The separate collar piece that attaches around the base of the lion head often shows the name of the lion dance club, but lucky Chinese sayings also adorn lion collars.

I've never heard of a lion having a third eye. The mirror on the forehead might be mistaken for an eye, but really, it's just a mirror that reflects evil spirits away from the lion. It's said that evil spirits seeing reflections of themselves distorted in the convex mirror are frightened by their own reflections.

Ever seen any of the more rarely seen lions that are decorated with coins (wealth), fish (abundance, plenty), dragons, and birds? It's neat to see and appreciate all of these things when one learns their meanings. It's good that people ask these kinds of questions-it helps to preserve the tradition/art, and it increases one's own enjoyment of the lion dance so much more.

Thank you Hugo,

Corey

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 14 Aug 97 09:28 PST
From: LIM.KIRBY_A@WEST-LA.VA.GOV
Subject: San Gabriel Valley Chinese Cultural Assn, Inc.

Hi, my name is Kirby Lim. I have been with the San Gabriel Valley Chinese Cultural Association (SGVCCA) since 1972. The group, headquartered in West Covina, Calif., sponsors a Chinese language school with Mandarin and Cantonese dialects, a kung fu program with northern Shao-Lin style, Peking & Cantonese lions, dragon and tradition dances. I formally assist our Youth Group as co-cordinator.

We just finished Nisei Week in Los Angeles. We participated in the parade with our 150' foot dragon and 3 lions. Our agenda includes (up to date):

- Fiesta Bowl, Tempe, Arizona 1998
- Los Angeles Chinese New Year Parade
- San Francisco Chinese New Year Parade (Feb 14, 1998)
- Alhambra Chinese New Year Parade
- Walnut Family Festival 10/17/97

I recently purchased a Fat-Shan style, Size 1 lion set directly from an importer in San Francisco. Their prices are reasonable. I'm current modifying the lion to customize it with color and looks.

welcome to all the new people on the list that have joined in the past month or so - we really haven't had too many messages posted lately, but maybe with the new people contributing, we can get some interesting discussions going.

Special note to Kirby Lim - I remember your group when you used to come down to San Diego for our Chinese New Year Fair - you used to perform the Northern Lions and the dragon. Too bad you haven't been around the past few years, though. Saw you at Nisei Week in the parade and I must say that I only heard one of your drummers and he was pretty good! You also got some new uniforms since I last saw your group.

Welcome again and happy lion dancing to all!

Chris

Hi corey and Hugo,

So what do others on the list have to add. I'll add a couple of things I can remember...

The color of the lion is significant. They correspond to the colors of the Opera characters. Unfortunately, I don't remember most of them.

Each color of lion has it's own "character" too. Black lions are the youngest and have the most aggressive and combative movements. White lions are the oldest and have more graceful movements.

Red and gold lions are the general good luck lions and have happy and powerful movements.

Many troupes today don't follow these conventions so it's becoming lost. I agree with Corey. Keep talking (writing) about it. With the wave of competitions coming from Malaysia/Singapore, the historical significance of many lion traditions are being forgotten.

Stephen.

Hugo has inspired me to start another thread.

How does your group teach new students? In the old days, you were expected to watch, listen and immitate. Not much was orally transmitted until you showed that you were going to be an advanced practioner. This is why alot is lost today.

My Si-Sook (who is on this list) has implemented a systematic approach to teaching lion dance. I'll defer to him on how much he wants to share.

My question first starts with the methodology of passing on the tradition. Is it watch and learn or,like the kung fu, is there a systematic method for teaching?

Ask your Sifu how they learned.

Hope this gets some interests.

Stephen.

This is the way that our si-hing and si-jieh teach us. From what I've seen, it takes a while to get the "rhythm", and with out the "rhythm", it would be pretty tought to do lion dance correctly. Everything goes around the drum, and once you have been around it long enough, then you know how the dance will go. There have always been people who have been casually interested in learning something.. even lion dance. So, in the past, instead of wasting their efforts on someone who doesn't have the discipline to do it well, they can weed out who is genuinely interested, and who is casually interested. It would be pretty frustrating to take the care and effort to teach a lot of people how to do it right, just to have them get interested in something else and leave the school. I'm not saying this is the right way, or the only way, just a way.. and my opinion!

Best regards,

Geoff

Hello,

My name is Wendy Conway and I've been studying Northern Shao-Lin (Lohan system) for about a year. I became fascinated with lion dancing when I had the opportunity to watch some of the Lion Dance competition at Tat Mau Wong's tournament in San Francisco. Unfortunately, nobody in this area (Rochester, NY) teaches lion dancing. For now, I'll just have to be content learning what I can about the art from books.

I am very interested in the details of lion construction. Are there any resources on this topic?

Thanks,

Wendy Conway

wconway@eteklabs.com

Hi all.

I remember someone had talked about the colour scheme of the lion on the list before... as far as I know, lion head makers found certain colour combination that fits well with the lion and they gave the combinations names of the famous generals during the three kingdom period. Briefly, they are: (brackets are in Cantonese)

1) Yellow face, multi-colour patterns and tail, and white fur --- Liew Bei (Lau Bay)
2) Red face, black and red tail, and black fur---Kwan Yi (Kwan Yee)
3) Black face, black and white tail, black fur---Zhang Fei (Zhong Fei)
4) Green face, black and green tail, black fur---Zhau Ze Loong (Zheu Zee Loong)
5) Yellow face, yellow tail, white fur---Wang Zhung (Wong Chung)
6) Purple Face and Tail, white fur---Ma Chau ( Ma Chew)

There is also a white lion used for funerals.

I hope it is helpful. You can find more info in Kung Seng Keng's home page. However, the above are just names for the colour schemes. There are many other combinations and colours now, e.g. Silver, golden, blue, red, etc. as more lion head makers are experimenting with different scheme to make them more appealing, just as the old makers were doing when they name the schemes.

The designs are also being modified too. I have seen a Malaysian made lion with three mirrors and also a small dragon in place of the horn.

There are fears in the Malaysia that competition are being over emphasize and they are now a traditional lion dance competition in Malaysia. However, lion dance team there are still very "traditional", it is just that some master is now starting to discard certain tradition they regard as too supertitious, i.e. women are not allowed to dance it etc. During chinese new years these lion dance teams still do many (most) of the "puzzle solving" and "fortune bringing" performance. We don't see them in competitions as the competition focuses on the "form" of lion dance. I do agree that there is a struggle to get a balance between the "traditional" and "entertaining" aspect of dance. I think that what is important is that the lion dance must evolve, not only in design,dance etc. but also the attitudes towrads it. Well, that's my opinion anyway. Do keep discussing it as it is good for ideas/traditions to be shared.

George Chan,

I agree that getting the "rhythm" is most important, that's why in our team everyone must be able to do the cymbals. Everyone starts with the cymbals as I find it is the easiest way to catch the "rhythm". We use Master H.P.Siow's written drumming system, so it is a bit easier to train the new members and to pass down. After that, we will ask the new members of their preferenceses and train them at it. We encourage every member to learn at least 2 skills. Since we are a new club, we are still finding the best way to train. Of course the most easiest way is still to observed and imitate, then train through actual performance. That is why we encourage the new members to participate in more performance as we find that this is the most effective training. We do find people who are "casually interested" but usually they will leave the club very fast. Since our aim is to promote this art we don't mind teaching everybody the art, even if they end up leaving the club, etc. In the end we hope at least more people will know a bit more about the art. Well, that is our club's opinion on training.

George Chan,

Hello,

My name is Peter Liew, I'm in Auckland, New Zealand. I wil be starting a Lion Dance club at the university here next year. Lion Dancing is one of my greatest passion, and I look forward to hearing from the group and share discussions. I have many funny accidents from my experiences and don't mind sharing for a good laugh. I'm not saying that I'm a really good or anything, the whole point of the club is so that I myself can improve on the art. I am still learning as much as I can and I hope that the "big brothers" who are reading this don't mind helping me out a little.

Although I have been lion dancing for about two years I do not know enough about the "HOI GONG" or opening blessing ceremony of a new lion. Perhaps someone would like to share.

Regards,

M Peter Liew W T.

Hello and Welcome.

It is so great to meet someone else on the list from New Zealand. We are a Lion dance group based in the University of Canterbury, but we also have members from Lincoln University. Our aim is to promote the art, and we are very interested in getting to know all teams around NZ. How is the lion dance scene up in Auckland? Is there many teams?

As for the "Hoi Gong" ceremony, I can sent you a copy of the "blessing" written in Chinese if you want. However, there are many different types of ceremony and mine is just one type used in Malaysia.

We hope that you will be sucessful in forming your club and if there is anyway we could help please don't hesistate to ask us. We hope our group will keep in touch.

Regards,

George Chan

Hi, Everybody!

I'm new to the list and would like to introduce myself, but first, I'd like to give thanks to the developer of this listserv for setting it up and maintaining it!!! Great job! Good discussions!

My name is Tim. I haven't had too much experience dancing, but really like to watch! Are there any instructional videos or anything out there? Any books? Any tips from you experts? I'm interested in the Southern Lion. Also interested in legends, color and symbolism, details, pic.'s, etc. Do you guys have home pages?

As my addition to the color discussion, I was told that if we saw a lion with a red beard or with a leg extended, pointing in our direction, it was a challenge or prompt.

I really like white lions (like the one Wong Fei-Hung danced in the funeral for the Daaih-yahn in "Wong Fei Hung IVa"), but too bad they are for funerals only.

Later

Tim

I've seen the competitions and the competition heads. They look good! But I'm interested to know what the traditional competition involves. We mainly have 'traditional' heads here in Hawaii and mostly choi changes (blessings) are done. Thanks!

Tim

Here's the info you've requested. Sorry, I can only receive text-email and email within the U.S. only. I have email at my work site only.

Chong Importers (Chong Kee Jan Co., Inc.)
838 Grant Avenue
San Francisco, California
USA 94108-1738

Tel: (415) 982-1432

They have both Northern and Southern Lions, dragon, some weapons and instruments. They recently raised their prices a month ago.

Hope this helps.

Maintainer of BDS wrote:
> I'm from the LionDance mailing list. My name is Paul Hung and I'm in a
> team at Brandeis University in the United States. I was wondering if you
> can send me a copy of the "blessing" in chinese as well. I will reimburse
> you for postage if you'd like. Thanks!

Hi Paul,

Sure, no worries. Just give me your postal address. Forget about the postage, just tell us something about your troupe! I am very keen in knowing everything about the dance and the people involved with it.

George Chan,

Hi Tim,

> My name is Tim. I haven't had too much experience dancing, but really
> like to watch! Are there any instructional videos or anything out there?
> Any books? Any tips from you experts? I'm interested in the Southern
> Lion. Also interested in legends, color and symbolism, details, pic.'s,
> etc. Do you guys have home pages?

Go to Kun Seng Keng's home page. There are a few good pages in Chinese. I have a instructional tape from Taiwan but the teaching is rather old. However, it does give a basic overview. There are quite a few lion dance competition tapes around, and they show more recent developements and good moves, but it is not too instructional. I'm sure there are some owned by the people on this list in the US, but if you are really keen, I can copy a few for you. Let me know if you're interested.

> As my addition to the color discussion, I was told that if we saw a lion
> with a red beard or with a leg extended, pointing in our direction, it was
> a challenge or prompt.

Well, from what I was thaught, any excessive leg movements(extending and waving), blinking of eyes, raising the lion(Hey Shi) and sniffing of the other lion's tail towards another lion is a sign of challenge and taunting. We are taught/warned never to do them as they are very, very disrespectful.

> I really like white lions (like the one Wong Fei-Hung danced in the
> funeral for the Daaih-yahn in "Wong Fei Hung IVa"), but too bad they are
> for funerals only.

Well, there are silver lions that look like(or even better than) the white lion, and they are now one of the most popular lion.

Happy Lion Dancing,

George Chan

Well, lion heads used in competition and 'traditional' fares are the same. It is just that teams tend to use their more hansome heads in competitions. I am not very sure in what exactly they do in the traditional competition (they were not well publicised) but I am pretty sure they compete in sketches such as the "lion coming out of the cave" etc.

George Chan,

I am curious what you mean by competition heads vs. Traditional heads. Are you confusing the Fat Shan heads vs. the Hok Shan heads? Hok Shan heads have a rounded mouth. Almost like a duck bill. They are both traditional from different regions. Traditionally they have different (slightly) movements and emphasis but today most use the quicker Fat Shan style for both.

This does not answer your traditional competition question but when I was in Singapore, I saw a lion dance competition on TV. Every group did modern style shows except for one. They were the third place winner and did lion coming out of the cave. It was great to see a tradtional team. Lot's of power and animation. It showed all the characteristics that I've been taught. Alot of the new competitions don't show the strong stances, fluid movements and expression of the lion moods. They did use the shorter lion though.

Stephen.

>I've never heard of a lion having a third eye. The mirror on the forehead
>might be mistaken for an eye, but really, it's just a mirror that reflects
>evil spirits away from the lion. It's said that evil spirits seeing
>reflections of themselves distorted in the convex mirror are frightened by
>their own reflections.

Hi all. This was my silly mistake. I _was_ told that it _was_ (as it is in actuality) 'supposed' to be a mirror. I did, for some reason, decide to leave that in the back of my mind and did allow myself to consider it a third eye. :) haha oh well. I still like thinking of it that way, but I won't agian make the mistake of stating that it is anything but a mirror. Sorry!

Thanks for a good discussion. Sorry I wasn't able to really be a part of it - business. You know. But you can be sure that I read all posts carefully. Thanks again!

Take care,

Hugo

On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Stephen Chew wrote:
> I am curious what you mean by competition heads vs. Traditional heads.

Oops. Sorry. I tend to use my own slang...when I say 'competition heads' I really mean 'competition tails.' The lions with the shorter bodies with matching pants and (I assume) lighter heads (to do those pole-jumping competition performances).

> This does not answer your traditional competition question but
> when I was in Singapore, I saw a lion dance competition on TV.
> Every group did modern style shows except for one. They were the
> third place winner and did lion coming out of the cave. It was
> great to see a tradtional team. Lot's of power and animation.
> It showed all the characteristics that I've been taught. Alot
> of the new competitions don't show the strong stances, fluid movements
> and expression of the lion moods. They did use the shorter lion though.

On the contrary, this DOES answer some of my questions! Thanks! I've never seen that traditional dance in a competition, just the pole-jumping ones - almost all with the shorter body. However, I did see one pole-jumping performance using the 'regular' (to me) longer body Fat Shan lion.

Tim