Hi, Everyone!

More q.'s:

1. I have a copy of the beginning, introductory-level lion dance demonstration/training tape. At the end of this tape are some clips of the advanced training tape, but I haven't been able to find it. Any clues as to where in Hawaii or the U.S. I can find it? For that matter, I'd also like to get the original of the beginning tape. Can I order these tapes through the Web? The version I have is in English.

2. Can I start a discussion on what you guys think of a project like making a head out of aluminum sheet (w/o the bracing)? My friend was thinking of this as sort of an artistic project. But would it be too non-traditional?

3. I forgot.

I'll post more q.'s later. My friend has more info. but hasn't gotten his modem working yet. Thanks!

Tim

I am just wondering if anyone had recently visited the clarion music center in san francisco...to take a look at their lion heads...thanks

Hi James, I've been there recently. They have quite a few lion heads now. Mostly southern lions, only one northern lion. There are 2 kinds of southern lions that he carries, the fut san style and the hok san style. At least some of the lions appear to have been made in Guangzhou, China. Most of the lions have very bushy and brightly colored fur, almost like muppet fur. I can't say for sure where these lions were made, they look Malaysian made, but somehow not. Maybe they're Chinese versions of some of the new styles of heads that are coming out.

Did not get to look at their tails, pants or prices. Don't they have a website now?

Yes....i saw their website...and got some info about what kindda heads they carry and how much they cost.

i am just wondering if the heads they have are of reasonable quality for their prices...especially the hok san heads...i saw a picture of it a while ago on their website but i couldn't find it now...

i am wondering if anyone has some ways or techniques to check the heads before buying... i know that most of the time the heads need some sorta reinforcements...

Hi Tim,

It is true that the lion heads in competition is lighter and have shorter tail if compared to the older lions, but this is not because they are specially designed for competition. It is just another evolution in lion design, and most lion heads are made like this nowadays. There is actually a story about how the "shorter tail" Lion came about as told to me by Master Siow.

Decendants of the Hock San liondancers migrated to Singapore during the pre-war era. In the 1950's during QE II's coronation cerebrations there were big performances involving the lion and dragon dance. One of this "dance" involves the dragon surounding the lion. The lion will then try to get out of the circle, and this will eventually happen when the dragon dancer tires. In one of this 'sequence' one of the Hock San Master was surounded for too long, much to the frustration of the master. When he went back home he cut his 12 feet lion tail in frustratation. Later, he mended the now 9 feet tail, and found it much easier to use(maybe more agile). Today, the tail has evolved into the 7 feet tail, similar to the Northen lion. This style later influence the fat Shan head, and I can see even China now is following the trend.

I hope the above was interesting. I think the more modern 'pole jumping' competition style emphasize more on the form of the whole lion, wherelse the older lion style emphasize on the individual skills of the lion head dancer.

George

Hi Tim,

Tim Lee wrote:
> 2. Can I start a discussion on what you guys think of a project like
> making a head out of aluminum sheet (w/o the bracing)? My friend was
> thinking of this as sort of an artistic project. But would it be too
> non-traditional?

Well, in my opinion if it looks nice it should be okay. There is nothing 'traditional' about the material used, just the shape and practical usefullness of the lion head. Lion heads made in Malaysia has the base and the central surporting struct made of aluminium. These lion also have PVC tube hand grip, and many of the bamboon bracing replaced by rattan bracing. However, can alumonium be bended or formed into certain small and complex shape of the lion?

George

Just to add to this. Many of the heads in Malaysia are made with a metalic vinyl-type material. It looks similar to Mylar used in ballons but thinner.

This material is lighter then paper mache (sp?) and makes for shiney gold and silver lions. It's also more durable. I was very surprised at how light the heads were. I'm used to the very heavy old heads.

Stephen.

PS. I just wanted to thank George and Tim for keeping the discussion lively on this group. George, you are a wealth of information. did you study in Malaysia? With what group and where? My Uncle (in-law) is a Bai He Sifu in JB.

Hullo, Tim...

I would certainly give the lion a vastly different feel. No significant absorbtion or flexibility from the frame. THink that, personally, this would be my problem with an aluminum lion, rather than whetehr it's not traditional enough. The lionhead would be one static unit...plus, it would smell funny, no?

> 3. I forgot.

:) haha

Bye,

Hugo

Hi!

Can you please tell me and possibly others on this mailing the address of the web site you mentioned?

Thanks!

Johnny

At 22:51 19/08/97 +1200, you wrote:
>It is so great to meet someone else on the list from New Zealand. We are
>a Lion dance group based in the University of Canterbury, but we also
>have members from Lincoln University. Our aim is to promote the art, and
>we are very interested in getting to know all teams around NZ. How is
>the lion dance scene up in Auckland? Is there many teams?

Yes, I was hoping for a reply from you. I am not very well known yet in Auckland. At the moment I am setting up a basic team consisting mostly of members in my family and some close friends. By next year I should hope that we would be ready to set the club up and teach others what we can and build on it. Do you have any tips on how I may start? I have some ideas, like performing on enrolment week to attract students. I don't have much idea on how to start teaching, except a few basic forms of Kung Fu in the beginning. But with only one set of drum equipment and only one lion head, I have some concerns on teaching a big group of people. What is your experience and how do you deal with it if I may ask?

As for the Lion Dancing teams here, I know of only two good ones. One is from East Malaysia (Sabah) and the other one, the teacher is from Penang with some non-Malaysian students. There are other teams but these two are the only ones as far as I know do it properly and professionally. There is also a popular Wushu school which I have heard of which also do Lion Dancing but have not met them yet. They have a lot of connections with the Hong Kong Society here. But until I see them in action, I cannot comment on their Lion Dancing ability. Generally I see a pattern that each society or association of Chinese nature has their "own" preference of dancers for functions. It may be a bit much for me to say, but I have to say that sometimes when I see a group not doing the Lion Dance properly and looking as if the Lion is pregnant and crazy I do feel it to be quite an insult to our Chinese culture. In saying that, I am not referring that all other teams besides the two that I have mentioned are no good. Its only quite recently that I have started to be active in Lion Dancing and I'm sure there are others around Auckland which I may have not met yet.

>As for the "Hoi Gong" ceremony, I can sent you a copy of the "blessing"
>written in Chinese if you want. However, there are many different types
>of ceremony and mine is just one type used in Malaysia.

Thank you very much for your offer. I hope to learn your ways of generosity, people like you are scarce these days and are a good example to people like me. Although, embarrassingly I have to admit to you I can only read my own name and basic characters. But I am learning slowly and if you don't mind sending me anyway it would be great. Our teacher would be interested in your article. I'm Hakka (Kejia), but I can speak some cantonese.

>We hope that you will be sucessful in forming your club and if there is
>anyway we could help please don't hesistate to ask us. We hope our group
>will keep in touch.

Thank you and I wish you success too in your prospering club. I will definitely need your help and advice in the future.

Regards

Peter Liew W T

Early on when the list still only had a few members I made a suggestion that since many of us own different videos, we could find some system of sharing them. I only own one real video - Sifu Tat Mau Wong's Advanced Lion Dances of China, and my offer is this - I will lend it to anyone who wants to see it for free. The only thing I ask is that you hold on to it until the next person wants to borrow it. When someone wants to borrow it, they send you their address and you send it to them. The cost of postage to the next person is the only price you pay. Right now a guy named Leon Zeng-Ding Lee has them, so if you're interested in borrowing it, contact him and get it.

Also others have mentioned what tapes they had seen for sale and where to get them, so if possible, could people tell what they know for the people that missed it last time? Thanks.

One last consideration to keep in mind - in the US the standard format is VHS, but this isn't so in the rest of the world. Before you get a video, be sure you have a player that can handle the format the tape is in.

Not only VHS but NTSC format as well. Europe and some Asian countries use PALS. It'll cost about US$40 to convert a PALS format tape to NTSC.

Chris,

Got confused at the end of your mail. The tapes are in VHS format right? Not Beta or anything...

Anyways...I've written about my Troupe earlier in the year but here I go again.

My team is officially called the Brandeis Liondance Troupe. We haven't really decided on a chinese equivalent...but we're getting there. =) The "club" started in the spring of 97. We have a southern type lion with the long multicolored tail shipped in from GuangZhou. Since then we're replaced the Caddy fender and pot cover with an authentic gong and cymbals.

We're pretty much working outta the seat of our pants...I've managed to beg the school for $400 dollars to replace our plastic drum (hehe). Does anyone know where I can get one around Boston? I'll even settle for New York City.

My team also has a website. It's not complete but there are a couple of pictures showing us brutes. =) http://www.brandeis.edu/students/lion

-Paul

> Got confused at the end of your mail. The tapes are in VHS format right?
> Not Beta or anything...

I don't mean to speak for Chris but what he means is that tapes from outside the US are usually PAL format instead of NTSC. They are both VHS tapes but most US players wont play PAL.

Also, for those with PAL/NTSC machines, usually the NTSC will only read the SP speed of NTSC. I copied a tape for my inlaws in Malaysia at SLP and it looks like it's constantly fastforward :-(

> My team also has a website. It's not complete but there are a couple of
> pictures showing us brutes. =) http://www.brandeis.edu/students/lion

Neat site. Pictures are kinda dark. Keep on dancing.

Stephen.

>Does anyone know where I can get one around Boston?
>I'll even settle for New York City.

You can contact BLT Supplies Company in New York. They have a few selections and the price is fair market.

John Wai

Hi!

This is an addition to what Stephen has already mentioned above. The VCR system in North America (Canada and US) are usually PAL format. In Asia, the VCRs are in NTSC format. There is nothing to do with the video tape only the VCR itself is different.

Unless, you have a PAL/NTSC machine what Stephen has mentioned which can view both types of format.

I hope this will help those who are confused.

Johnny

Hi Johnny,

Just a slight correction. The US uses NTSC. Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia use PAL. These are the only countries I know for sure. I believe that Japan uses NTSC like the US. I don't know what Taiwan or China uses but my guess would be PAL.

In the US, VCRs that play PAL are big bucks (~$1000 USD). Most VCRs in asia play both but only the SP or 2 hour speed of NTSC. If you buy a tape in HK, Singapore or Malaysia, it will most likely be PAL.

Luckily, My Sifu has a PAL machine and I can view my PAL tapes that way.

Stephen.

As an addition to the abv...If you guys have PALS tapes, you guys might want to try your local university or library, especially if they have an East-West center or Asia or European studies dept. Universities are usually generous in their loan of International VCRs (PALS to NTSC converters). You might want to check out your instructional support dept.'s or A/V dept.'s or something along those lines. Then, just borrow the VCR, hook up your standard VCR (NTSC for US) and start dubbing. If you're dubbing copy-protected tapes (like Disney movies in Chinese, for instance), you may need to put an in-line signal booster to cut out the copy-protecting light/dark shift-thang. If you're a responsible grad. student or something, they might even let you borrow the VCR overnite (evening courses). If not, you gotta rush it to your dorm room, hook it up, dub, then return it to them within the time they allow. If you guys have trouble, let me know, you can send me the tapes, and I can dub 'em for you (and for my library :) )and return both to you. Note: You may have to white-lie a little when reserving the VCR ("Uhhh...I'm using it for...international cultural exchange..."). Hope this helps!

Tim

Thanks Tim for your suggestion regarding PAL and NTSC format conversion. Also I would like to thank Stephen Chew for my error. Also you forgot to mention the VCRs north of US -- Canada. We have the same format as you guys down there.

I just want to mention that if the tape doesn't work on your VCR then it is either the tape is not compatible with your VCR or there's a defect in your VCR. So, just pop the tape in and see if you get picture or not....it is easy as that.

I better stop now otherwise this lion dance mailing list will become more or less like a VCR mailing list.

Johnny Chan