>If the cracks are on the top, well try oil. A little at a time until
>leather is elastic again? I don't think you should paint the top
>especially in a humid area. I've done it and humidity quickly dulled the
>sound.
Heh heh... you should see the cracks in our drum. Our school was invited to do a lion dance demo in China a while back.. in '89 or so. Even though my sifu is from Guangzhou, I guess the local schools didn't like the lo fan doing lion dance.. They came out to fight our lion, and got out of hand when someone from one of the local schools put a spear through our drum! Now there's a hole in the middle... makes a good practice drum!
Geoff
> sifu is from Guangzhou, I guess the local schools didn't like the lo fan
> doing lion dance.. They came out to fight our lion, and got out of hand when
> someone from one of the local schools put a spear through our drum! Now
> there's a hole in the middle... makes a good practice drum!
Wow Geoff. Were you there? Let's hear some details. What does it mean to "fight your lion?" I know in the old days, schools would challange each other and that's why Hung Gar schools would put the butterfly knives on the drum and carry long staffs and spears.
Stephen
I wasn't there with the school... this was back in 89 or so. I wasn't really old enough back then and couldn't afford to go. Our school is a Hung school, and we do put the butterfly knives on the front of the drum, hanging off of the edges of the drum skin. The way I understand it was that another school from Guangzhou brought out their feisty black lion to challenge our lion. I guess our lion was just a happy lion and didn't want to start a fight in a place where you are the guest. Our sifu talked to their sifu and it was over. Nothing too exciting.. except one wrecked drum where they stuck their spear through to try to provoke us to fight.. lucky for them our sifu stepped in.. heh.. just kidding.. che die pao!
G
Hi, Gobert!
Sorry took so long to reply. As a general intro., I'm posting this to the listserv.
I'm afraid I don't have much knowledge about lion dance - I'm learning a tremendous amount from this list! I didn't realize there were so many fanatic nuts about lion dancing (makes me feel less out-of-place!)!
I'm from Hawaii, my kung-fu and lion dance background is very brief (I know almost nothing). I practiced Lau-Ga Keun (Lau Family Fist) for about a year or two here in Hawaii.
It would be great to get together with a whole bunch of you guys and talk story and compare notes and trade tips! Check out my next posting to the listserv; I put down some ideas that maybe could fly...
Tim
Hello, Everybody!
There have been some posts about travelling and meeting and getting together but always with the financial hitch. So....
I've been thinking about this for quite some time, now (and also in relation to some other things going on here). I think there are a LOT of opportunities and sources of funding that we don't realize are out there. Here is a short brainstorm list of ideas (perhaps you guys could come up with some more OR hit this at a different angle than what I'm seeing).
What do you guys think? Anyway, I think it'd be cool to get together. Even if we just pay our own way. If we integrate with the Chinese New Year, we'd have a better chance of getting sponsorship. Or if not, we should all try to arrange to get together at HK for their annual Lion Dance Festival around Chinese New Year's time (AWESOME event, if 1995's program is any indication!)
Tim
Getting together would be great. I'm not sure about the funding though. It's worth a try. Personally I don't have the time to chase it down. I'm busy enough practising locally.
I would love to get toeghter and talk story, trade techniques and just get to know others who have a love for Lion Dance.
When we sponsered a lion dance seminar I got to met a few people from the list and it was great.
Those are my comments. Great idea. Let's hope someone will do the leg work.
Stephen.
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, James Kyin Ngoon Lee (Ngwe Soe) wrote:
> Have you tried out to get some grants from the funds?
Actually...no...just throwing around ideas. I don't even know how realistic these ideas are, just a thought. I've been seeing opportunities everywhere, and it seems to me that this is a good one. There are LOTS of funding sources untapped. People either don't know about them or think they're too hard to get, but I think with a good proposal and presentation, it's VERY do-able.
> I'm glad to see another fanatic nuts about lion dancing...=)
> By the way, do you have any good video tapes on lion dancing...like
> tournaments...in hk or malaysia...and stuffs like that.... thanks...
> oh...yeah...would you be able to find those tapes...in hawaii...just by
> going to the video stores?....
Nothing I got from Hawaii. It's not very big here. I DO have some tapes of tournaments in Malaysia and HK and stuff. I'll post a list of titles I have soon and maybe we can get some kinda tape rotation-thang going.
Tim
Dear Tim,
Great idea! Personally, I think it would be easier to get funding if the art has a bigger profile. We down here can get grants from similar(though much fewer) sources, but the biggest funding was by the University Student Union. The other type of funding we get are from the private 'donations' for the equipment. A suggestion, why not plan something in conjunction with next year's World Champs in Malaysia? Some list members will be participating there, and accomodation and stuff is cheaper there. If any event can be plan(like a Lion dancing 'camp' incl. watching the competition, visiting lion teams & factory)now, it will give us all an objective to fund raise towards.
Just a few ideas,
George
Hi - I was wondering if anyone knows of a source of traditional lion dance drum beats. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy,
Welcome to the list. Tell us a little about yourself.
What are you looking for? This question hit the list about a month ago. We don't know of any real documentation. there is a Sifu in Singapore that created a system for documenting beats and My Si-Sook (Sifu Gobert Yeung) also created a system for teaching the basic beats.
Both these systems, however, need to be taught to be understood. We have been trying to devise a way to teach this on the list but have been unsuccessful.
Stephen.
Hi Everyone,
I know it's kind of late but I just saw a tape of the Hong Kong handover celebration and saw the part where Jackie was drumming. Did anyone else see this?
I found it interesting. He had this theatrical start. (very slow single beats and then some beats where he did some kicks) but then he went into traditional Hung Gar drumming.
you could clearly hear:
1) High Dance (Go Wu)
2) 3 star (Sam Sing)
3) 7 star (Chut Sing)
4) Bow (Loi Gu)
5) Low Dance (what we call the 2-5-7 beat)
6) 3 star (Sam Sing)
7) 7 star (Chut Sing)
8) extended High dance (Go Wu)
Then the TV cut to something else. Anyone else catch it? Did they map it into their own system? I might have missed some stuff as I'm doing it from memory. 7 star was the short version and 3 star was when he clicked his sticks in between. Also, the drumming on the screen didn't always match the music. I think there was a delay in the replay. Of course, they were switching from the 97 lions to Jackie.
Someone mentioned Jackie's drumming earlier but I didn't get to see it till now. I didn't see any replies then. Did anyone else see it?
Stephen.
My first trip to China will be in January 98. I will go to Shanghi and Annuhi Province Can I see a Lion Dance? I am a Theatre scholar also interested in contemporary Chinese dance and theatre. What should I see? Also - when is Chinese New Year next year?
Karma
Dear Chris Low:
Would you please tell be where one can get lion dance equipment information? I would like to know how much a typical set of equipment will cost.
Thank you.
Sincerely yours,
Kit Heung
Amrak3@aol.com wrote:
> Chinese dance and theatre. What should I see? Also - when is
> Chinese New Year next year? Karma
The first day of the new year should be on the 29th of January 1998.
George
Hi,
Master H.P. Siow of Malaysia also has a system for the Hock San Drum style, but also suffers from the same problem. But it is a very usefull teaching technic. Most of our group learnt the beat throught he system. I think the best way is for the actual music to be played and refered back to the system.
George
Hi Andy,
What do you mean by traditional beats? There are actually many different versions of the (Fatt San)lion dance beat because there were composed so many hundreds of years ago. So many different schools & people have modified it that I don't think there's anybody who can claim to know the 'original' version. But it is great that there is this variety and growth in the beats.
George
Hi Kit,
Tell us a little about yourself and your lion dancing.
Here is some information from the list:
From: LIM.KIRBY_A@WEST-LA.VA.GOV
> Darwell Import Company, Inc.
> PO Box 882193
> San Francisco, CA 94188
> (415) 826-0807
> (fax) (415) 826-3554
>
> Darwell Import is open Monday thru Friday only. My contact here is Corine
> Lai, Office Manager. She assisted with the displaying of several lion
> heads that they have in stock. They carry the basic white (Pei), red
> (Kuan) and black (Chang). They also have the gold lions (head trimmed
> with orangish nylon hair/body is a golden yellow tail with white fur
> trim). They had a full stock of different sizes (1, 2 & 3s)-- not sure
> what they have now. They also carry the coordinating pants. Being 6 ft
> tall, they naturally didn't have my size. Corinne has been very helpful
> and she even let me take pix of the lions. They have an awesome red lion
> on display in their showroom. It's painted as an older Kuan/darker
> head colors. All their heads are fat-shan.
>
> Please let the above two merchants that I referred you. I told 'em that I
> would help "advertise" for them. You won't be disappointed with them.
>
> Clarion Music Store in SF Chinatown carries Hok-Shan heads but they
> are expensive!
>
[Note they carry all kind of equipment and you can see their web page
at www.clarionmusic.com]
> >Is it a China head or Hong Kong head?
>
> Darwell Imports' lions are from fat-shan in China.
> However, as with any head/purchase you should see the product and test it
> out. The one I chose was of solid construction. The exterior colors didn't
> matter b/c I'm modifying it to a hybrid. ...Well, okay, I did go for the
> colors of the pom-pom's!
>
> >Who is the manufacturer? Sang Woo Loong?
>
> Forgot to look this one up for you. But I still have the cloth tag that
> was tied to the lion's horn. They were sold out for the special top knots.
> They did have the sea eagle/phoenix in place of the standard horn.
>
> >How much was it?
>
> My price was US$450 for a multi-color Size 1. I paid an additional US$80
> to have ittrucked to Southern California 'cuz the darn thing wouldn't fit
> in my Honda CRX!! I told myself to not down-grade to a Size 2 and cough up
> the shipping fee. (I was glad I did!) I purchased it Friday and the darn
> lion had beaten me home! They use a small trucking carrier. Darwell
> carefully double-boxed my head. It arrived in good conditon/no damage.
> The elder staff took extra care. They give that special touch for YOUR
> merchandise. That's why I feel you won't be disappointed with 'em.
Hope that was useful. It was for me.
Stephen.
Hi Layton,
> hey I know I do it when I hold the drum stick to drum.. tight fist and wack
> the drum as hard as I can.. But I met a pro Chinese drummer from Beijing...
>
> He teaching us to use just two fingers thumb and index to control the drum
> sticks. The other three fingers are just to grip the stick..
When I drum, the key is to hold the sticks as loose as possible without having them fly out of your hands. If you grip them too tight, you will not take advantage of the bounce back and you will tire quickly.
Also important is to keep your elbows down. This keeps the sticks in line.
For Lion Dance, you should also be in a Ma Bo (Horse Stance) while drumming but this doesn't help the drummer just works him out :-)
> Thumbs have to be in line with the drum stick and no gaps between the
> thumb and index finger when you hold the stick.. yes there is a gap or
> opening with the index finger and thumb.. unless you have very long fingers
> or very thin sticks.. This will no make any sense unless you have a drum
> stick in you hand..
I didn't get this. The two lines contradict themselves. Gap or no gap? Is the index finger cupping the stick and the thumb is on top?
I usually use a grip like the A-OK sign and slide the stick throught the hole made by the index and thumb. The stick is cuppedby the index finger.
> thumbs are the key to this system of control with the stick. all wrist..
Definitely alot of wrist.
Stephen.
To whom this may concern,
I am interested in finding out where I may be able to obtain a VCR tape of the Liondance.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Ko
Has anyone on the list every purchased any Lion equipment from Darwell? I would like to hear your comments. Thanks
Hey list,
We need an archive. Is anyone doing that?
J2wai (what's your name)
> From: J2wai@aol.com
>
> Has anyone on the list every purchased any Lion equipment from Darwell? I
> would like to hear your comments. Thanks
>
Here's something from an old post:
----- Begin Included Message -----
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:20:00 -1000
From: LIM.KIRBY_A@WEST-LA.VA.GOV
Subject: Copy of: Re: San Gabriel Valley Chinese Cultural Assn, Inc. (fwd)
Hi Tim!
Mrs. Lai and her son, Alvin, have been very helpful. They have hunted down an importer located in SF as well who stocks lion heads and the musical instruments.
Darwell Import Company, Inc.
PO Box 882193
San Francisco, CA 94188
(415) 826-0807
(fax) (415) 826-3554
Darwell Import is open Monday thru Friday only. My contact here is Corine Lai, Office Manager. She assisted with the displaying of several lion heads that they have in stock. They carry the basic white (Pei), red (Kuan) and black (Chang). They also have the gold lions (head trimmed with orangish nylon hair/body is a golden yellow tail with white fur trim). They had a full stock of different sizes (1, 2 & 3s)-- not sure what they have now. They also carry the coordinating pants. Being 6 ft tall, they naturally didn't have my size. Corinne has been very helpful and she even let me take pix of the lions. They have an awesome red lion on display in their showroom. It's painted as an older Kuan/darker head colors. All their heads are fat-shan.
Please let the above two merchants that I referred you. I told 'em that I would help "advertise" for them. You won't be disappointed with them.
Clarion Music Store in SF Chinatown carries Hok-Shan heads but they are expensive!
>Is it a China head or Hong Kong head?
Darwell Imports' lions are from fat-shan in China. However, as with any head/purchase you should see the product and test it out. The one I chose was of solid construction. The exterior colors didn't matter b/c I'm modifying it to a hybrid. ...Well, okay, I did go for the colors of the pom-pom's!
>Who is the manufacturer? Sang Woo Loong?
Forgot to look this one up for you. But I still have the cloth tag that was tied to the lion's horn. They were sold out for the special top knots. They did have the sea eagle/phoenix in place of the standard horn.
>How much was it?
My price was US$450 for a multi-color Size 1. I paid an additional US$80 to have ittrucked to Southern California 'cuz the darn thing wouldn't fit in my Honda CRX!! I told myself to not down-grade to a Size 2 and cough up the shipping fee. (I was glad I did!) I purchased it Friday and the darn lion had beaten me home! They use a small trucking carrier. Darwell carefully double-boxed my head. It arrived in good conditon/no damage. The elder staff took extra care. They give that special touch for YOUR merchandise. That's why I feel you won't be disappointed with 'em.
J2wai@aol.com wrote:
> Has anyone on the list every purchased any Lion equipment from Darwell? I
> would like to hear your comments. Thanks
I also bought a few lions from Darwell and had them shipped here to Hawaii. The ones you should look for are the one's Corine calls the Neon lions. They are also black, red and colorful but the painting is - in my opinion - nicer. They have a lot of "tiger stripe" patterns instead of the flaming swirly type patterns on the traditional fatsan lions. They also have the flat toothed mounths as opposed to the old style fatsan heads with the wire teeth. However, Corine only gets these Neon heads once or twice a year. She usually gets a shipment in around October or November and she usually sells out of the Neon lions by New Years.
Corine was very helpful. She took photographs of all the lions and mailed them to me before I bought them. She also sold me a family of Northern lions. However, I don't think she carries any more Northern lions.
--Sherman
Hi everyone,
Our group used to use two gongs a long time ago. We used the big gong for the lion dance performances, and the small one was used for the kungfu performances. With the small gong, we also had a pair of small cymbals and a small drum as well. They both produced a different, higher pitched noise. The drumming that was played was also different. We referred to it only as "Gong Che," which is what the beat pretty much consisted of-an alternating pattern between the gong (which made a "gong" sound) and the cymbal (which made a "che" sound).
When I was in Singapore in 1991 for the Singapore Chin Woo Athletic Association 70th anniversary, I noticed that the northern lion dance performanced was done to the "Gong Che" drumming. There was also a horn that was played along with the drumming. Hope this helps.
J. Minh Nguyen
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