J2wai@aol.com wrote:
> I saw your post on the Lion Dance list regarding Darwell. How is the quality
> of the Lion? I purchased an "upgraded" Lion from Beijing Imports, and it is
> already breaking. I would like to purchase another Lion and have talked w/
> Darwell about it. There prices seem very reasonable. Did you shop around or
> is Darwell the first place you went?

The quality is not that great. These are the old-style heads made in Fatsan which usually have very thin papier mache and the bamboo is not that strong. However, the neon series of heads are a little stronger then the traditional Fatsan heads. We do buy from other places as well. We've recently bought from Pak Wan and Sang Wo Loong in HK and we've bought direct from the same factory as the Darwell heads in Fatsan called the Foshan Musical Art Instrument Company.

Sherman

layton wrote:
> Are you happy with your Northern Lions.. I saw thoese set a few years back
> but my wife talked me out of buying another toy.
>
> Some made in China are suppose to be too heavy. I don't see enough of
> them to understand the difference. But some where bought for some of the
> Chinese Acrobats who are in the US. They refuse to use them because they
> said they were too heavy.. the Chinese Acrobats are some strong tough
> dudes.. But I guess If it is your daily job you want the right tools.

I don't know if its heavy relative to other northern lions because I never had any other northern lions. We only play these on special occassions like parades and stage performances. It is very difficult to play in parades because you get tired after less then a block - and then you have to go hide behind the drum to make a change. The costume cannot not just be switched off to the next player like the southern lions. And they are sooooooo hot - especially in Hawaii!!!!

Sherman

Hi. My name is Bao Nguyen. I am one of the Vietnamese Club members. I would like to ask you how much those equipments for LIONDANCE cost.

Thanks.

Hi Bao,

I didn't see anyone answer you but your question is very broad.

In the US, a head and tail from China will cost you from $400-$700. In Hong Kong, the same stuff is about $200-$300 and in China I bet it's a lot cheaper. Then again this is the most basic Lion that is usuable. The quality varies greatly and you need to shop around.

also popular now are lions from Malaysia. These are the ones you see in most of the modern competitions. They have shorter tails and the heads are made of lighter material. These cost about $1000-$2000 US depending on where you get it from. In Malaysia, they cost about $500-$800. These usually come with matching pants.

Where are located? Tell us a little about your club and the lion dancing interest.

Stephen.

Hi Bao,

Just to add some more info on equipment from Malaysia. I shall quote the amount in Malaysian Ringgit (RM). Normal lion head~ RM 1300, Silver/Golden head~ RM 1600, Batik(Malayan multi-colour fabric) head~ RM 1800, Musical instrument from China: Drum~ RM 270, Cymbals(a pair)~ RM 80 and Gong~ RM 320.

Hope you will find the above helpful.

George,
CHC, NZ

Geoff and My wrote:
> >I don't know if its heavy relative to other northern lions because I
> >never had any other northern lions. We only play these on special
> >occassions like parades and stage performances. It is very difficult to
> >play in parades because you get tired after less then a block - and then
> >you have to go hide behind the drum to make a change. The costume
> >cannot not just be switched off to the next player like the southern
> >lions. And they are sooooooo hot - especially in Hawaii!!!!
> Ahhh... horse stance, horse stance, horse stance!!! Go and practice! ;-)
> Geoff.... still practicing horse stance

I don't know if your familiar with performing the northern lion, but the dance is not one that originates from the Kung Fu school. It is a theatrical representation so horse stance is not necessarily the training method used. Also, the fatigue from parading in the northern lion is due to: 1) the extreme heat of being totally draped in a heavy body suit and covered with fur. 2) The tail player is hunched over continuously without being able to flap his arms and straighten his back. 3) The head player has very limited sight - he can hardly see his own feet because of all that fur.

Don't get me wrong, horse stance is very important for southern lion dancing. However, our group also marches parades with the northern lion and the unicorn which move very differently from the southern lion. Northern lions and Unicorns have their origins in theatre and opera.

--Sherman

Does anyone have any information on where to purchase a Malaysian Lion? I live in the US and am searching to purchase another Lion. I prefer the lighter lions.

John Wai

Hi John,

IMHO, the best place to buy lions from, in Malaysia, is from Siow sifu (a name George from NZ mentioned several times before). Again, IMHO, the nicest lions around and Siow sifu's a really nice guy.

Contacts:
Wan Seng Hang Trading
32, 2/29 Old Town
46000 Petaling Jaya
Selangor
Malaysia.

Fax/Phone: +603-7922968

Oh, one thing to note, sometimes he is really good in terms of getting it send to the US (6 weeks for a friend in SF) , but other times when he is really busy (like -often), it may take much longer...it's really hard to say...check with him. Siow sifu does not speak English well but can get someone to read his English faxes.

Good Luck

Peter Lee

-----------------[begin forwarded message]---------------------
Hey everyone,

Something that happened to Pat. See what you can do. Any lawyers? I forwarded this to the LFE listserve as well.

Subject: racism at serremonte, don't buy a car from them please

hey jeff, i crashed my car last weekend, and this happend to me on Sat. I tried to send it through the listserve, can you please put it on the list serve and tell everyone else.

thanks.

pat,,

On Saturday, September 27, 1997 ( about 3:00 p.m.)

My family (mother, father, sister, & girlfriend) and I went to look at the new Acuras at Golden Gate, Cadillac & Acura located near the Serramonte Mall. As we parked the car, a group of sales people were sitting in front of the dealership waiting to greet us.

As my father opened his car door, Dan Fallon, (sales rep.), greeted him with, "There are no Chinese salespeople here, so you have to speak English. No, speak Chinese. We fired all the Chinese salespeople because there were giving away the cars too cheap."

My father responded with his own comments about how they shouldn't treat people like that, while my sister was expressing how racist the men were. I was in shock and only expressed how tacky this man was. After this 2 min. verbal altercation, we decided to leave. When we started to back out of the parking space, Fallon and Sam Sharieh(sales rep.) started laughing and gave each other an elevated high-five, intoxicated with the fact they drove away an asian family.

We got to the end of the parking lot and decided to turn back. We parked in the same space and asked Fallon if he was the manager and he declared that he was. When my father asked him for the manager once again, he pointed nonchalantly to the entrance. So my father directed his attention towards the entrance of the dealership and asked another sales person for the general manager. He then turned back to Fallon and asked him for his name. Fallon told my father that his name was Dave Johnson.

For some reason, we were not directed to a general manager, but directed to another sales person. This gentleman, Raymond Kwong, was of asian descent. I suppose they thought his presence would make the situation better. Sharieh, frantic about the situation, pled with us to make a deal with an Acura to relieve the situation.

One of the salespeople, who was outside when the incident was going on, rushed in and stated that he understood why we were so upset. He then stated Fallon is comment was unnecessary and that he was an a**hole for saying such a thing. He then apologized for him.

When we explained the situation to Kwong, he stated that he was Chinese and that he was one of the best salespeople at the dealership. He claimed that the tension may have escalated within the dealership due to his excellent sales performance. When Kwong was trying to find Brian McSherry (General Sales Manager), Sam Sharieh pointed to another asian salesperson and asked him to deal with us so that Kwong can help other customers. Kwong was very helpful and directed us to Brian McSherry.

We explained the situation to McSherry and he stated that a comment like that would have bothered him also. He then called for Fallon, who ran off to the rear of the dealership. When Fallon arrived, McSherry asked him to go into his office. They spoke inside the office for a few minutes then came back out. We then explained the situation again and had another verbal altercation.

During the second verbal altercation, Fallon stated he had done nothing wrong and came up very close (about 18") to my face screaming that he will never apologize to me about what he did. If he believed that he didnit do anything wrong, then why did he feel the need to give us a false name. He then went on saying if we thought there were legal actions that we can take then we should try it. When we asked him why it was necessary for him to make a comment like that, he told us that many Chinese customers come into the dealership and that if we didn't find the comment to be funny then we came in with a bad attitude in the first place. Fallon was justifying his comment by telling us that they have many Chinese customers, therefore the comment should have been funny and that we are at fault for taking it so seriously. He then continued to stand very close to me and screamed, "I did nothing wrong, so don't think that you are getting an apology from me." The general manager had to push Fallon away from me and asked everyone to keep their voices down. McSherry then told Fallon to get out of there.

Fallon went back to the front of the dealership to greet new customers, while McSherry told us that he can't do anything because he didn't witness what really happened. I guess McSherry had forgotten that he had to hold Fallon back from harassing a customer. McSherry told us he can only apologize for Fallonis actions, but he could do nothing else or promise that there will be any other consequences that Fallon would face.

Luckily, Kwong wanted some justice for our mistreatment, so he told us to contact Mike Spano (General Manager), the gentleman who is above Brian McSherry. I guess McSherry didnit want to give this option to us. We then asked McSherry to write the two salespeopleis names down on a card.

As we were leaving, Sharieh continued to plea with our family to make a deal with them, saying that we would get a real good deal. We ignored his sarcasm and headed straight for our car. Here we were cut off by Fallon where he said that he had time to clear his head and told us that this was not a racist act. My father and I ignored his remarks and headed towards the car, but my sister had another verbal altercation with him. Then a female sales rep ran out and ordered my sister not to harass Fallon. She also told her that this was a place of business and ordered her to leave because there were customers inside.

The only bright side to the situation is that an african-amercian couple and two asian-american women witnessed the incident and walked out of the show room in disgust. As they were leaving, they stated that they werenit going to do business with this dealership.

I canit believe that this happened to my family and myself, especially near San Francisco. I only hope that this will never happen to anyone else. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or need further details about the incident. Please contact Golden Gate Acura if you would like to hear what they have to say about this incident. I am pleading with anyone reading this letter to advocate their community to contact Golden Gate Acura and express your own opinions on how they treat the asian-american community.

Their phone number is 415-985-1000, and is located @
707 Serramonte Boulevard
Colma/Daly City, CA 94014

My name is Patrick Poon and you may contact me at anytime about the incident. (415) 571-1999

Thank you very much for your time.

Sincerely Yours,

Patrick Poon
--------------------------[end forwarded message]-------------------------

Hi Cory,

Thanks for sending this information. Here is the follow-up. This happened very qucickly and shows that we should not stand by for racism.

This made the front page of the SF chronicle today and was mentioned on KCBS this morning. It's getting quite a bit of coverage.

Stephen.

----- Begin Included Message -----
Hello everyone, oct. 2, 1997 about 10:00pm

I wanted to thank all of you for your support. I get about 50 calls and 70 emails a day

If anyone hasn't heard Dan Fallon was fired, and Don Lucas of Lucas Dealership sent a formal apology. Unfortunatly, the other gentelman, Sam S., will not be punished. From Lucas, Sam says that he recieved a high five while we were leaving, because he had recently sold a car. Aparently he wasn't laughing at us leaving outraged. (only my opinion.)

Lucas will not do anything, because of fear from wrongful termination. I can see that.

sam is still working there, tomorrow at 2:00.

Goden Gate Acura 415-985-1000, and is located @
707 Serramonte Boulevard
Colma/Daly City, CA 94014

Victor Whang of Asian Law Caucus 415-391-1655 and Haden Lee of Organization of Chinese Americans, 415 342-8336, helped a great deal in settling this situation, and Ramond Kwong, sale rep. of gg acura,

Our family recieved the formal apology we asked for, but i really wish Sam was punished in some way.

I have attached the letter Lucas sent to me

Thank you again for your support and kindness.

thanks

Patrick Poon

ps. SF. Examiner is doing an article about the situation and outcome, check it out tommorrow.

p.s.s guess the passive asian stereotype is now abolished.

Lucas Dealership Group, inc
19330 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Cupertino, California 93014
ph. (408) 255-6400
fax. (408) 255-0560

Donald L. Lucas

October 2, 1997

Dear Mr. Poon:

As I stated during our recent telephone converstions, I was deeply disturbed to learn of your experience at Golden Gate Cadillac/Acura and wish to extend my profound apologies on behalf of all of us at Golden Gate to you and your family.

I have concluded my investigation into the incident of last Saturday. Sept. 27. involving you, your family and Mr. Dan Fallon. This letter is to confirm that we have taken swift and decisive action in termination Mr. Fallon. As I indicated to you, the behavior exhibited by Mr. Fallon is contrary to the spirit and philosophy at Golden Gate and will not be tolerated!

I sincerely hope that you, your father and other members of your family will not allow the insensitivity and ignorance of one individual to cloud your opinion of all the other employees at Golden Gate. I can assure you that our dealership personnel are dedicated to maintaaining a consistently excellent reputation for dealing fairly and professionally with members from all of the varied communities within the bay area.

all of us at Golden Gate respect and enjoy the ethnic diversity of your area. I would like to add that approximately 50% of the employees at Golden Gate are Asian descent, including techs, sales and management personnel. Further, over 45% of our sales are made of members of the Asian community. Needless to say, the staff at Golden gate are shocked, appalled and ashamed by the way you were treated by Mr. Fallon.

We all deeply regret the incident of last Saturday and hope that you and your family will accept our sincere apology.

I would very much appreciated it you would post this letter of apology as follow up to your original e-mail letter. Thank you.

Donald L. Lucas
Chief Executive Officer

Dll/jng

direct line (408) 255-0600
----- End Included Message -----

>This made the front page of the SF chronicle today and was mentioned
>on KCBS this morning. It's getting quite a bit of coverage.

That should have said, front page of the Penninsula section of the Chronicle. So only people in the area will get that. It won't be distributed across the Bay Area.

Still, it's a good amount of coverage and will cause others to examine racist attitudes.

Stephen.

My name is Paul Lam and I'm interested in lion dance. Even though I don't know how I would really like to learn. My friend has a small club in Hawaii and was about to teach me but I had moved. By the way where are u located?? Hey write me back though.. I'm really interested.

Paul Lam
El Monte Ca.

Hi Paul,
Did you join the list or are you just sending email to liondance?

In case you didn't know, this is an email list of a bunch of people around the world that like to write about lion dance. We have all different levels from people who just like to watch to famous Sifus.

What are your interests and ask some questions. We even have a few people from Hawaii here. Maybe they know your friend.

There are few people on the list from SoCal. Maybe they can answer as well. I'm from Sunnyvale Ca. (NorCal).

Ask specific questions. I'm sure you'll get an answer.

Stephen.

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering if there is a list of all the members in the Liondance list. How many members are in here anyway?

Paul
Brandeis University

Can someone on the list help Paul Lam out here? There are lots of LA Kung Fu studios that do lion dance. Not sure which one to recommend.

To answer Paul Hung, I don't think there is a main list. Chris, are there plans to put one together? Obviously, there are some people who may be on the list as lurkers and prefer not to be known. Any published list should be voluntary.

Stephen.

------------ Begin Forwarded Message ------------
hi Stephen. Well mainly I was just looking for a lion dance club or a
good kung fu teacher in l.a. thats about it..since most of the clubs on
ur page are kinda or very far from where i live it would be difficult
for me... if u know any clubs or good teachers here then could u let me
know.?? Thanks alot..
Paul
------------- End Forwarded Message -------------

Hello Paul ( and Stephen, et al the list)

Don't mean to be a 'lurker' but I just haven't had anything I felt would contribute to the discussions as yet. :)

I get about 120 messages a day to go through, so I'm conservative in the number I respond to.

My husband has a kung fu school in New Port Richey, Florida and we do southern lion dancing in and around our community. Also just got started last year with a regional competition in Orlando. I'm learning a lot just from your conversations about drumming and drum repair, etc.

My business is seamstress - I've re-done the lion body twice on the old lion, made pants to match, etc. I love to be creative when it comes to the uniforms the kids want - they like giving me a movie tape and saying "I want a uniform like THAT!"

Also have been interested in where to get supplies. We just got a new lion last November and it was water damaged, needed repairs, etc. We also got a new drum. The old one has been repaired twice with wood putty and repainting, etc. The head has lasted well, though. The new versions are noticably smaller than the old, and it seems less sturdy.

I sometimes still do the Buddha at local shows, but for the most part I've passed that on to one of the younger more flexible, athletic and durable students (I'm now 51). He's doing well, still a bit shy in working the crowd.

I'd like to know too how many people are actually on this list.

Chris Reardon
Cutting Edge
http://home1.gte.net/22sew