To whomever it is that maintains this list - I want an explanation about the unsolicited email that I am receiving via this list. I did not solicit it and do not want it. After large efforts on my part to keep my email address secret, it is now being displayed to who knows how many jerks who think they have the right to invade my privacy. I've already expressed my concernes about this - I want a reply this time.
I don't know what you can do to fix the situation - but the damage is done, and if you don't do anything to correct the situation, I will sign off. That's (obviously) not a threat. I'm just letting you know.
Hugo
If you ask nicely and not calling everyone a jerk, maybe your wish will come true....if you know how to "sign off" why don't you do so?
No hard feelings man. I know I have no rigts doing this, but people on this list deserve a little respect.
Everyone should realize that the liondance mailing list is a PUBLIC mailing list. Anyone with the right commands can easily (i.e. without hacking) get all the email addresses that are subscribed to this list.
This list is "public" because people can find the email address liondance@mail.sdsu.edu on the Web at http://www.oocities.org/Tokyo/3430/
This means that people sending spam don't even need to know the commands that can be used to obtain subscribers' email addresses. All they really need to do is send their spam to liondance@mail.sdsu.edu and everyone on the list gets it. After all, I'm sending this email to everyone on the list even though I don't know everyone's email address.
Greg
(BTW, I'm not the maintainer of the list)
On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Atay Voong wrote:
> If you ask nicely and not calling everyone a jerk, maybe your wish will
> come true....if you know how to "sign off" why don't you do so?
Mr. Voong - read more carefully please - anyone who participates in 'spamming' can rightfully be called a jerk, since they involve themselves in disturbing people who specifically wish to not be disturbed in the interests of money and commercialism. I did not in any way imply that the list maintainer was a spammer or a jerk - just that he had not replied to my earlier request and that his list, for whatever reason is routing unsolicited commercial garbage to my personal, private mailbox. I know how to signoff and I would prefer not to for the same reason that I signed on - I would like to correspond with the people on this list with regards to the tradition of Lion Dancing.
> No hard feelings man. I know I have no rigts doing this, but people on
> this list deserve a little respect.
You have every right to say what you said - all I ask is that you say it after reading more carefully and try to not take the side of the people who are forcing themselves into private forums and private lives with only the intention of making money. No one on this list (excepting any possible spammers) are receiving any disrespect from me. I will not behave as if I did not have emotions - spamming makes me angry, as do commercials, billboards and the various other signs of this disgusting consumer culture that we are living in. Enough said, thanks for your viewpoint - I would ask that you reconsider it.
Take care,
Hugo
On 15 Oct 1997, Gregory Chuck wrote:
> Everyone should realize that the liondance mailing list is a PUBLIC
> mailing list. Anyone with the right commands can easily (i.e. without
> hacking) get all the email addresses that are subscribed to this list.
Thanks Gregory. You're absolutely right. I don't spend a lot of time on the internet, and so I didn't properly think everything through and didn't remember that I didn't have to go through any verification process to join this list. Do you (or does anyone else) have the list maintainer's email address?
lowc@rohan.sdsu.edu does nothing but bounce
He should be scanning and removing any subscribers that do not seem interested in lion dancing, and hopefully, if he has the time, setting up a filter that will only allow subscribed persons to post to the list. All I know is that all the spam I am getting is being routed through the list.
Anyway, thanks.
Hugo (spam makes me mad) :}
Mr. Corruption:
On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Online Corruption wrote:
> in disturbing people who specifically wish to not be disturbed in the
> interests of money and commercialism. ^^^^^^^^^
^
^
^
THAT is a split infinitive...
=)
...come on, guys. Let's get back to lion dancing...
Did any of you guys do the Dbl. 10 celebration? We had a parade and some street dancing here in Hawaii (Dr. Sun Yat Sen went to Iolani High School here. Was he anywhere else in the U.S.? How did you list guys from Taiwan celebrate?).
Also, how do you guys choi chang? Specifically, how do you play the firecrackers (if allowed)?
Thanks!
Tim
MR. Lee (haha ;) )
Well, as anyone who knows me would agree, I am bound TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE!!!!
hehe =]
> ...come on, guys. Let's get back to lion dancing...
ok
> Did any of you guys do the Dbl. 10 celebration? We had a parade and some
> street dancing here in Hawaii (Dr. Sun Yat Sen went to Iolani High School
> here. Was he anywhere else in the U.S.? How did you list guys from
> Taiwan celebrate?).
Yeah, we had a big parade. I personally wasn't there, but I hear it was neat.
> Also, how do you guys choi chang? Specifically, how do you play the
> firecrackers (if allowed)?
Never done firecrackers. I believe the city of Toronto has a big problem with explosives on city streets. What are the laws in other cities? I'll find out from my Sifu what exactly goes on with regards to firecrackers and the law here.
Bye dudes...
Hugo
Tim Lee wrote:
> Did any of you guys do the Dbl. 10 celebration? We had a parade and some
> street dancing here in Hawaii (Dr. Sun Yat Sen went to Iolani High School
> here. Was he anywhere else in the U.S.? How did you list guys from
> Taiwan celebrate?).
Well, Tim, of course I was in it with Jeng Moo and Henry Ching was in it with Lung Kong. Dr. Hu just so happened to see the parade in Honolulu Chinatown and he told me he was quite disappointed. To me, the Hawaii 10/10 celebration has really been on the decline the past few years. KMT usually runs the parade but this year was tough because their group was split up - half at the parade and half at a Taoist ceremony. We don't even bring our nice heads out for the parade. Of course, the was a threat of rain that day, but secondly, there was hardly any publicity or audience. The whole parade lasts about ten minutes, and then gets back logged at the end where we all pay respects to Dr. Sun Yat Sen's statue. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I'm proud of Dr. Sun Yat Sen's origins in Hawaii and I'm also a proud graduate of Iolani. Its just too bad that Taiwan doesn't have a strong community representation in Hawaii. Good luck finding someone who speaks Mandarin in Honolulu:(
> Also, how do you guys choi chang? Specifically, how do you play the
> firecrackers (if allowed)?
Dr. Hu just gave me a tape from White Crane's annivarsary celebration. They had brand new Malaysian heads but the interesting part is they never even went near the firecrackers. Tail players stay out of the tails and head players just keep their distance until the firecrackers are through. Of course, if I had brand new heads, I'd probably stay away too. But as you've probably seen in Hawaii, we usually go right into the fireworks. None of the clubs hold the tails from outside. If we did, the old timers would definitely have something to say about it. Then again, at Jeng Moo, we usually add about 20 pounds of fibre glass and resin to the head to keep it from falling apart in the fireworks!
--Sherman
Hi everyone.
Here in CHCH we were invited to performed in a food fair+performances...we used two lions and one of them did a routine on some tables. The Taiwanese migrants here are pretty recent but their number now outnumbers all other chinese migrant. They brought along much of their culture, but they do not seem to know much about the lion dance...luckily they are pretty generous with their red packets!
>Also, how do you guys choi chang? Specifically, how do you play the
>firecrackers (if allowed)?
Wow, choi chang is such a broad subject to discuss! We could talk for weeks! Basically,the simplest way is to first ask the owner/arranger of the chang how it should be done. If the person has no idea, then the lion will just go for it our own way. What is the most unusual chang have you guys heard/seen? How do you guys complete it?
Luckily in NZ firecrackers is restricted and I only encounter it twice. It was a small and short thing, and we did the throwing ourself. In Malaysia the firecracker ban was lifted for 2 years, and it was hell! For the short stuff(5000 sticks) it is usually thrown at the lion's feet (if the thrower is a nice fellow). The lion will have seen it comming and just moved to one side and dance happily. Sometimes the lion will kick it around, and if the thrower is very annoying, back at the thrower. The worst case is those who throw form the upper floors, it is very difficult to avoid. For long stuff(>10,000 sticks) they tie it up and lit it either at the very begining or the end of the performance. If any firecracker is lit buring the middle of the choi chang sequence we will just get up and leave. We usually have somebody wearing goggles, mask, gloves, 2 layers of clothing etc. ready to dance very near to the firecrackers when it is lit. The smoke in this case is very bad, I was once unwittingly caught, in the lion head, when a long firecracker was lit, with no 'protection'. The lion head offers shelter from the blast but not the smoke. I nearly suffocated! Thank god firecrackers are banned again! Personally, I think firecrackers should be used just as a 'symbol' for good luck during a lion dance, not as a tool to test the skill of the lion dancers. By the way, someone once told me of a fire cracker chang. It is just a chang, red packet and firecracker inside a 'dragon jar'(Loong Kong). The lion has to jump and stand on the rim of the jar, lit the firecracker then proceed to eat the chang and red packet. Not a inviting thought at all!
Cheers,
George,
In Hawaii Choi Chang is the highlight of the new years festivities. Five clubs with two groups each visits all of Chinatown. All the streets are blocked off. Firecrackers are bought by the hundreds of dollars. 100,000 strings are becoming common and take a good 15 to 20 minutes to burn. But it's the 1000 short packs that are killer. Three shops are imfamous with 2 to 3 creates worth. Thats why clubs bring their worst heads cause most don't survive the night. This year,I mean next year it's scheduled for Fri. the 23rd of Jan. Bring your ear plugs!! aloha henry
HI TIM
IT IS DANIEL AGAIN. FIRST OF ALL B.C IS IN CANADA B.C STANDS FOR "BRITISH CLUMBIA"
ANYWAYS IN VICTORIA, WHERE I AM FROM. WE ONLY ENCOUNTER THE FIRECRACKER PACKETS OF ONLY 50 STICKS PER PACK. AND WE OUT HERE FIND IT VERY SIMPLE TO DANCE WITH WE JUST STEP ON THEM IF WE ARE WEARING RUNNERS. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I'VE ENCOUNTERED THOSE JERKS WHO LIKE TO THROW THEM RIGHT UNDER YOUR FACE.
THE MOST COMPLICATED CHAING I'VE HEARD OF BUT NEVER FACED BEFORE IS SOMETHING CALLED LONG GOO ?? I FORGOT WHAT THE REST OF THE NAME IS.
BUT I CAN DESCRIBE IT LIKE THIS.
THIS WAS MAINLY DONE IN CHINA A WHILE BACK.
YOU STARTED WITH ONE OF THOSE THIN NECKED BIG BROWN ALCOHOL BOTTLES, THEN YOU GOT THIS TYPE OF PLANT THAT HAS LEAVES LIKE THE TOP OF A PINNEAPPLE, CUT OFF THE LEAVES SO THAT THEY ARE STILL IN A BUNDLE . THEN YOU GRAB THE BUNDLE SO IT IS THIN SO THAT IT POINTS DOWNWARDS AND SHOVE IT DOWN THE BOTTLE. AT THAT POINT THE LEAVES ARE STUCK IN THERE FOR GOOD. SO THAT CHAING WAS SET FOR THE CERTAIN SIFUS WHO WERE ABOUT TO HAVE THERE RANKING KICKED FROM UNDER THEM. THE POINT OF THIS CHAIN WAS NOT TO TEST IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO, SO IT WAS SET TO DISRESPECT THAT SIFU. IF ANY OF YOU UNDERSTAND HOW I EXPLAINED THAT PLEASE SAY SO. AND ALSO IF ANYONE HAS HEARD OF THIS CHAING PLEASE ADD TO MY DESCRIPTION IF I MISSED ANYTHING
There used to be only one place that we would perform at which used firecrackers. In Michigan, where I used to perform, fireworks have been illegal for a decade or two unless some special arrangements are made for a specific performance.
The biggest problem we had was with the smoke. We'd set up the instruments, etc. up wind and try to have the monk manuever the crowd downwind. In the lion, we'd also try to stay up wind or (very briefly) not breath in while passing through the smoke. There were usually 3 chains >2 meters long each with thumb-size firecrackers.
Some years the firecrackers would get thrown under the lion. As the tail, I would either step around them or kick them back. I think those might have been too big to step on w/o boots. In the head, I don't recall having to deal with them being thrown; I try to move around alot and chase anyone that gets close.
Lars
Stephen Chew wrote:
> Glad to get you out of lurking...
It always seems to be much easier to hide in the shadows....
> This is how we train. We focus on the basics. We actually don't
> join competitions so we don't train for that. What is that like?
We don't do competitions either. Our Sifu broke down the stepping patterns into their most basic representations - walking step, the 3 bows, a few formal bows, sideways walking, walk-abouts, that sort of thing. He also broke down how to hold the head, why it does what it does, and how to move it from one point to another. Many of us (myself included) seem to incorporate our kung fu stepping, which is very smooth and flowy. Well.. if you put that under a lion, it looks drunk at best, lost at worst. It's been difficult to even move the lion forward.. after years of triangle fronts of bringing the feet together!! Lions don't walk like that! It's these basics that I need desperately to get the lion to begin to look like a lion!
> Not only that, without the proper basics the lion usually looks
> weak and not alive. It also doesn't have that martial "feel."
Ahh.. the "feel"... I'll get back to you after a few years of intensive training!
> Is your style a northern style or a southern style? The stepping
Ours is a Northern system.. and this could explain my difficulties! Speaking of which.. the Hung Gar people that I've seen in NYC look VERY good under the lions!!
> They definitely complemented. Lion dance works your stance work and
Absolutely! Thinking can sometimes be difficult!!!
This list is, as always very very informative, keep it up people! :)
Bernard
> > This is how we train. We focus on the basics. We actually don't
We have broken the lion dance into various parts.
For the lion portion, we start with a good horse stance. Then practice getting the "snap" with left, center, right, center, etc. It's a similar motiion to throwing a punch with the power originating from the waist. This is the Kung Fu tie. Later, we add a one legged stance on each side and do up down.
Next is the stepping. It's all Hung Gar stances.
Horse stance, Staggered stance, Bow stance, Cat stance, Twist stance, Staggered stance, Backbow stance, Horse stance.
Hard to describe in email but the above is a sequence that moves you forward and back to the same spot you start. This teaches you good stance, snapping and stepping.
After that, you learn the different pieces that comprise a show. FOR THE LIST, what are the "pieces" that comprise a show for you?
> Ours is a Northern system.. and this could explain my difficulties!
What about others on the list. A majority of the people in our lion dance group come from the northern class. I'm not sure what they had to do to adapt. They all appreciate Hung Gar more now :-)
> Absolutely! Thinking can sometimes be difficult!!!
I am the most guilty of this. I'm still a beginner. I've only been doing this for two years. I still just fall back on basic drills and don't really get creative. The senior of the group know how to make the Lion look intelligent :-)
> This list is, as always very very informative, keep it up people! :)
Hope I've kept up the standard.
Stephen.
> in our lion dance is in line with our Hung Gar training. The northern
> folks have to make adjustments but overall it's like you said, good
> for your overall training.
> waist power generation. It also builds upper body strength and
> teaches you to think creatively.
From: Stephen Chew
Subject: Re: Hi all ...
> > join competitions so we don't train for that. What is that like?
> We don't do competitions either. Our Sifu broke down the stepping
> patterns into their most basic representations - walking step, the
> 3 bows, a few formal bows, sideways walking, walk-abouts, that sort of
> thing. He also broke down how to hold the head, why it does what it
> does, and how to move it from one point to another.
> Speaking of which.. the Hung Gar people that I've seen in NYC look
> VERY good under the lions!!