Niel,

Where in Canada is your group located? I am in Tacoma, Washington States and there are 3 Lion Dance groups and their name are: The Blooming Orchid Lion Dance, The Vietnamese Youth Martial Arts Association, and The Vietnamese Youth Buddhist Association. The "BOLD", Blooming Orchid Lion Dance is a very young group lead by my nephew. The BOLD in dead is very young and need lots of help from professional like you guys, video tapes, and training.

Here is their phone numbers:

> Darwell , san francisco (ask for corine)
> 415-826-0807
> darwell carries the traditional southern lions made in fut shan (foshan in
> mandarin). they are normally the cheapest and they also have southern style
> drums. at one time they had some northern lions but i am not sure if they
> still keep these in stock.
>
> clarion music, san francisco (ask for clara) 415-391-1317
> they stock the traditional fut shan lions, china lions made to look like
> malaysian lions and the northern lions. being a music shop, they carry all
> the instruments. they charge what i consider to be fair prices for keep such
> good stock, but they are more expensive than others.br> >
> chong imports 415-982-1434 or chong kee jan 415-982-1432
> they carry fut shan lions from china - might want to compare their prices
> with the above.

Yours,

Viet Thuan

Hi Neil,

I can help you with drums. My friend is selling them cheaper than clarion music, or any other place. He is getting top quality "gum sing" drums from Fatshan in the following sizes:

80cm (31.5") $450 Canadian
73cm (29") $390 Canadian
67cm (26.5") $350 Canadian
60cm (24") $300 Canadian
54cm (22.5") $275 Canadian

More info is on my website http://www.oocities.org/Colosseum/Bleachers/1728/.

About videos, I'm no expert, yet. But I have heard most of my lion dance friends give Tat Mau Wong, about a 3/10 for his lion dance videos. One of my friends may want to trade, I will ask him.

Is your lion dance team in Edmonton? I thought your master was with the hung mun lion dance team? Anyways, in Edmonton, there is one family I know of that used to make lions from scratch every Chinese New Year. If you want more info, contact me.

Please tell me where to get that Video/book on making your own lion head from scratch !!!! I have some MAJOR repairs to complete before New Year comes and could use the help on some structural issues !!

Thanks

Hi Neil. I'm sorry that I don't have that much to offer you in terms of a trade, besides the 1996 world championships (and 1998, hopefully soon), but perhaps we could work something else out. I am very interested in acquiring a copy of your Singapore tape. Thanks.

Willy Le

Hi there my name is Daniel , I am from Canada. Neil Mcrichie, I do have a video from China that is pretty good so if you want i could swap with you if you want. E-mail me privately @

orientaldragon@bc1.com

What is the status on the video availability for the 1998 Genting lion dance competition? Is it in the NTSC format? I have a copy of the 1997 Intl competition and it was taped off from a laser disc format. Is the 1998 competition on laser disc? (There will be better recording formating on ld.)

-kirby

Hi,

Can any of you guys on the list help me with some pictures? I need good, clear, head shots of the following lions; Kwan Kung, Lau Bei, and Cheung Fei.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help

Paul Skrypichayko,

Paul Skrypichayko wrote:
> I can help you with drums. My friend is selling them cheaper than
> clarion music, or any other place. He is getting top quality "gum sing"
> drums from Fatshan in the following sizes:
> 80cm (31.5") $450 Canadian
> 73cm (29") $390 Canadian
> 67cm (26.5") $350 Canadian
> 60cm (24") $300 Canadian
> 54cm (22.5") $275 Canadian

Very nice Paul. Thanks for the info.

> About videos, I'm no expert, yet. But I have heard most of my lion dance
> friends give Tat Mau Wong, about a 3/10 for his lion dance videos. One
> of my friends may want to trade, I will ask him.

Have seen Tat Wongs video's, ......I am looking for copies of some of the world Championships......If anyone has copies???????????????????

> Is your lion dance team in Edmonton? I thought your master was with the
> hung mun lion dance team?

We are in Winnipeg. Therefore I am a long way from Sifu Chan:-((But yes, My Sifu is "associated" with that team. But, in our school (Green Dragon) we have our own team

> Anyways, in Edmonton, there is one family I
> know of that used to make lions from scratch every Chinese New Year. If
> you want more info, contact me.

Cool

Paul, were you in attendance at last tourney? Did you compete?

Neil Mcritchie

Paul,

For the order of the lion you should list, first, Lau Bei (Yellow Lion), Kwan Kung (Red Lion), and then Cheung Fei (black lion).

Yours,

Viet Thuan

Willy (Huy) Le wrote:
> Hi Neil. I'm sorry that I don't have that much to offer you in terms of a
> trade, besides the 1996 world championships (and 1998, hopefully soon), but
> perhaps we could work something else out. I am very interested in acquiring
> a copy of your Singapore tape. Thanks.

Great. Will trade the singapore tape for anything you have on the world championships. What is your adress? I will send out in VHS format.

Neil

I heard that it was going to be released in vcd format a while ago (I think George from Malaysia told us). It was also supposed to be available in mid October but I haven't heard anything about it yet.

Willy Le

Hi Paul I have some pictures of all 3 of those lions! I do have some questions? Some of those pictures on your web site are from hawaii's jing moo lion homepage, Correct? also those pictures that you categorize as kei lunns look like Hok Shan lions to me.

Willy I have a training video tape made in hong kong or china, I was wondering if you might want to trade for the world championship tape??

>Will trade the singapore tape for anything you have on the world championships.
>What is your adress?
>I will send out in VHS format.
>Neil

I will trade for the singapore tape also! i have a instructional tape from hong kong!

I do have some lion dance video also and wanted to exchange too. I live in Tacoma, WA. USA. Do you guys want to help me out?

Yours,

Viet Thuan

Thuan, I have some news for you. We got some new information from the factory. The northern lions are much cheaper. One male and one female come in a set for $2000 Canadian ($1300 US).

Hi,

My Troupe has no videos or anything. :( Is there any way that we can buy a video from someone or somewhere? In the American (what is it...PAL or NTSC?) format? We are in desperate need of an instructor and it seems like videos are our only hope. We've milked all we can from the Wong Fei Hung series. We're even thinking about the Centipede since it's taboo to have the Lion breathe fire.

-Paul Hung

Hi Paul,

What kinds of lion dances are you looking for on video (NTSC)?

Corey

Hi Corey,

I'm basically looking for anything. Something instructional would be nice but we would LOVE to see liondances at a championship competition. Is NTSC the format that the United States uses? I'm confused.

Thanks everyone. This is a GREAT list!

If anyone wants to, take a look at our website at:

http://www.brandeis.edu/~lion

I know we still suck with no formal training and all but we're learning everyday. :)

-Paul Hung

Hey Paul. Maybe I can help. I have the 1996 world championships, a tape of a competition in Vietnam, and alot of footage of the shows that I have performed in. I'll send you a copy with all that I can find when I get home in mid-December (so maybe it'll give you ideas for Chinese New Year). Plus I'll keep you updated about other tapes that I'm going to get.

Have you heard about the lion dance clinic in San Francisco in March? Maybe you can send a delegation out here to attend it. The world champs from Malaysia are going to conduct it (Master Siow), as well as Dr. William Hu.

You know, all this talk about different tape formats has made me realize that I have a working tape of the 1996 competition with all 17 teams. I just can't play it on any of my vcr's!

Anyway, keep the head up, Paul. I know how hard it is trying organize a university troupe! See ya.

Willy Le

I was perusing through the Kun Seng Keng webpage and stumbled upon this message - they need sponsors to finance their trip (I'm assuming) to China to defend their world championship title Nov. 4-8, 1998. Check it out. http://www.maharani-online.com/kunseng/ I thought they were rich!

I guess everyone needs a helping hand once in a while...

Willy Le

Could anyone tell me why it is number 8 is a fortunate number in Chinese or when it comes to reward the lion in 8 or it's multiple? Here is what I received form Paul Skrypichayko of Edmonton, Canada, at

http://www.oocities.org/Colosseum/Bleachers/1728/

"Most people will put $88 in a red money envelope, but some will put as much as $800. The money is usually in multiples of 8 because that is a lucky number for chinese."

Hey Willy, and Paul P. Hung

It possible that I could get a copy of you guys video tape too? I have a couple of Lion dance video tapes and do not know what year it's form. The tapes look like the preliminary round of world championship series to me.

My Mailing address is:
Quoc-Vuong N. Ngo
906 South Winnifred
Tacoma, WA 98465

Thank you,

Viet Thuan

Hi guys,

This is a different kind of question, but does anyone know where you can get lions for fighting? I am talking about steel reinforced lion heads. I heard that there are only a few guys left who know how to make these kind of lions.

Also, does anyone on the list know how to properly kill a poisonous snake using the lion???

Thanks,

Paul Skrypichayko,

Is there a history behind or orther superstitious behind # 8. Last time we discuss about #4, now it is time for #8.

Please reply.

This is suppose to go on the Lion dance bulliten:

Hi Thuan,

I thought I'd give you some more info about the lucky money. I dont know all the details, but I have heard that 8 is a lucky number because the word sounds like "fut" (buddha), and because certain "good" things come in groups of eight.

I dont know if it is rude to talk about how much money a group gets for a dance, so I am telling you privately instead of on the list. In my city, I have heard of groups getting as little as $5 for a lion dance, while one kung fu club I used to belong to got a very big reward. There is a large Vietnamese/Chinese supermarket in our city, and they opened up a second location in Calgary. They ended up buying our club a new lion, (this was worth about $800), and they bought lunch for about 20 people, payed for our travel expenses, payed for lots and lots of firecrackers, and to top it all off, we got $800 li si.

This is really good for North America, but, it is small time compared to some of the big businesses in Hong Kong. I have heard of some average teams making $20,000 in 2 weeks.

I guess all of this depends on how succesful the business is, and how much money they can write off. (taxes/non profit groups).

Just thought you'd like to know,

Paul Skrypichayko,

As far as I know, it's not "fortunate" per se. It sounds like rich in cantonese, which is "faat", and 8 is pronounced "baat". But.. I'm not chinese, so maybe someone else can explain better.. and tie it into the 8x8=64 thing.. all I know is it can get complicated!

g

>I have heard of some average
>teams making $20 000 in 2 weeks.
>I guess all of this depends on how succesful the business is, and how
>much money they can write off. (taxes/non profit groups).

I'd like to see the IRS employee's face on that one... $20k - Deduction for lion dance... ;-)

Hey Neil.

Here is the message I received, originally posted by Thuan and written by Chung Ngai Dance Troupe/Chinese Performing Arts Foundation of San Francisco representative David Lei.

Info. on the conference is in the latter portion of this e-mail. I guess we can expect a definite schedule and official invitation sometime soon. I think they are expecting a huge turnout, and space will definitely be limited. Keep looking for more details.

--------[begin forwarded message]----------------
the chinese performing arts foundation in san francisco is planning a lion dance conference march 20-28 in san francisco. we have invited master h.p. siow and two of his top students from malaysia. master siow coached the world champion team the past several years and he is very much willing to teach. he has accepted our invitation.

dr. william hu from the university of michgan has also accepted our invitation to come and lecture on this subject.

invitations for speakers from the asian art museum, san francisco state university, university of california at berkeley and hayward state university has been extended and we expect most of them to participate.

there will be open workshops on the weekends of march 20/21 and 27/28 and closed workshops on the weekdays.

we are still trying to determine fees, but will probably be $30 for the entire week with discounts for groups from lion dance schools.

still working on affordable hotels and places to crash for those willing to bring sleeping bags. official invitations with details of the program are scheduled to be sent early-mid november.

can you help us by gathering up a list of lion dance groups in your area (or anywhere) so we can contact them about this conference?

our goals are to upgrade the level of lion dancing in america, create a sense of community amongst lion dance groups and increase general knowledge about history/customs of lions.

rgds,
david lei
-------------[end forwarded message]--------------

oct 30

thuan,

re the number 8:

although the popularity of using the number eight to represent "to prosper" is a recent phenomenon started in hong kong (maybe last 20-30 years), the chinese have for centuries enjoyed using puns, homonyms and rebuses. main reason is the language. the chinese language is basically monosyllabic with around 70 sounds. in mandarin, there are 4 tones (7-9 tones in various dialects of cantonese) so the total number of sound/tone possible (sound times tones) in mandarin is around 300. since there are around 8,000 words commonly used in mandarin and using only these 300 sound/tones, the average sound/tone will have 27 possible meanings. this cause for lots of CONFUSION*, but great for poetry, homonyms, puns and rebuses.

the word eight (batt in cantonese) is close enough to "fatt" (to prosper as in "gung hei FATT choi") that the cantonese use eight to represent "to prosper". nine (gow) sounds just like "a long time" so nine now represents longevity. six or "look" in cantonese sounds like the chinese word for "a high minister's salary" so six now represents wealth or status. three is "saam" in cantonese which sounds like "sang" which means "to grow". four is "say" in cantonese and death is pronounced "saay". this is an unlucky number unless it is combined with eight such as 48 ("saay fatt" in cantonese) which means "endless prosperity". never use 58 because 5 is "nng" in cantonese which sounds like "mmg" which means no or never so 58 means "will not prosper". Other combinations are 38 which means "to grow prosperous", 888 is the same as three eights or 38 and has the same meaning as 38. one is "yutt" and six is "look" and combined (yutt look) sounds like "yutt low" which means "continuous" so 168 means "continuos prosperity". two is "yee" in cantonese and "yee" also sounds like "easy" so 28 means "easy to prosper". there are so many more, but this should bore all of you enough! as a result, any of these lucky combinations can be used in lion dancing to convey auspiciousness.

* most high school/college person in america will have command of 40-60,000 english words. to read the chinese paper only requires knowledge of 2 - 4,000 words. an educated chinese will know 8-10,000 words. with limited words and sounds to describe any given situation makes the chinese language difficult to be precise in comparison to english. one theory why scientific advances slowed in china is because it was difficult, if not impossible, to pass on precise details of discoveries and experiments using this language. even today, the chinese language is not compatible with the use of computers.

david lei

Hi All,

Just to inform you all that the 1998 World Champs VHS and VCD has been officially launced last night (31st OCT) at Muar,Malaysia, home of Kun Seng Keng. The first sales are done to help them raise funds for them to go to China. However, I am not sure how fast the distribution is, but I don't think it will get too popular until nearer to the Chinese New Year. Anyway, I will keep you guys inform. For Guys in the US, I think you shoild have them in late March.

Kun Seng Keng is actually not rich (even by Malaysian standards,) sure they get a lot for a performance but that's mostly during the new year. Competitions prize money never covers their expenses. if not for the donations from the community and the sacrifice of their leader, they would not be at where they are now. They still don't have a place of their own to train, they rent an open aired parking lot at night for that purpose. The government never assits any LD activities (they are already very generous by not banning LD!).

As for the letter 8, I believe it sounds like 'fatt'.

As for the fighting lions, I haven't heard of anything like that before and hope I will not get to see lions fighting for the good of the sport. I do not recommend anybody getting any ideas about LD from any of Wong Fei Hung movies. They are all entertainment and most are fantasies, and the true parts reflects the bad past of LD which I hope all of us will totally overcome. Anyway, that's my personal view.

Paul (Brandeis Uni), I know it is hard to start and I hope you keep up your good work. I hope I can help you in some way, however, I am not a master but I know the competition rule and judging quite well. I will help you in any of your question the best I can. Just ask. As for the videos I think it is the best for you guys at this moment (but not wong fei hung's!). I hope people on the list in US will help out this budding group by offering their tapes to them. I know there must be a few good tapes there.

Well, that's all folks!

George,

Hello George. I have yet another crazy idea. If you would be SO generous to, could you buy a couple of 1998 world championship copies (VHS and VCD) and ship them over here? We could maybe do a pool of orders on this list, send you the money, and have the tapes sent directly to each person. I know it's a whole lot to ask of you (and you'll probably never talk to me again for bringing this up) but we're dying to see this tape here in the US!!!! Of course, you could always send all of the orders to one place in the US and that person would handle the distribution. Just a thought. Can you do it?

Oh, and to Geoff, I'll send my tape to you this week.

Neil, I still haven't made my copy yet. Will get to that asap.

Paul, still targeting a December date for your tape.

Thuan, what exactly is on your tape? Can you describe the teams and their performances?

Man, midterms are killing me right now.

See you guys later.

Willy Le