Without Poverty, There Is No Liberation Theology
an interview with
Peruvian theologian
Gustavo Gutierrez
Without Poverty, There is no Liberation Theology
Interview with Peruvian theologian, Gustavo Gutierrez
[This interview first published in: Neue Luzerner Zeitung, Nov 27, 1998 is translated from the German on the World Wide Web, www.neue-lz.ch/. The seventy year old theologian Gustavo Gutierrez, "the father of liberation theology", focuses on the growing poverty in Latin America and the role of liberation theology in this context.]
LZ: Again and again we hear that the theology of liberation is no longer current but is dead so to speak. Do you agree with this assessment?
Gustavo Gutierrez: I don't know how this impression arose. Liberation theology was born in the midst of Latin Ameerica's poverty. This poverty still exists. When poverty disappears, liberation theology will not be needed any more. I will be very happy if that happens!
LZ: What is happening with the base communities closely connected with liberation theology?
Gustavo Gutierrez: There are great distinctions from country to country and from diocese to diocese. In addition, the usage or official version is different. In my country Peru, we don't speak of "Christian base communities". Nevertheless these communities exist among us.
LZ: Bartolome de las Casas, the dominican, was a fearless supporter of the Indians at the time of Latin America's spanish conquest. He is their "patron" so to speak. You refer to him very often. What would he do today?
Gustavo Gutierrez: He would transpose himself into the situation of the poor. In the 16th century,Las Casas told his people they would think differently if they were Indians. Having sensitivity for "the others", for those outside the dominant society, the Indians, blacks and women, would be his program today. The "perspective of the other" is the methodological way of pursuing theology.
LZ: The most powerful trend nowadays is called "globalization". How do you understand this phenomenon as a person who lives among the poor?
Gustavo Gutierrez: We must be very careful with this term. Globalization nourishes the illusion that we are on the way to a united world. This is not true. There are at least two worlds. One of them is the world of the marginalized, rejected or excluded. The expulsion of the poor is much more radical today than in the past. Whoever has no work is affected. There is a cynical saying which has a core of truth. The poor, it is said, were not interesting enough to be exploited. A large part of the population actually stands outside the economic system.
LZ: In Peru, the slums are called "Pueblos jovenes", "young villages". You recently spoke of the vitality there...
Gustavo Gutierrez: Yes, the vitality of the poor. Among the poor, there is a great creativity that exists nowhere else. I think above all of women. They organize movements and institutions which make possible survival in the areas of food and medical care. Vitality exists within an environment in which increasingly dreadful conditions prevail.
LZ: Do you have hope for the world of the poor?
Gustavo Gutierrez: A person may not give up hope. Nevertheless this is a difficult question! The gulfs between the poor and the rich and between poor and rich regions are obviously growing worldwide. This is especially true for Latin America and for Peru. We have horrible conditions. If someone would tell me everything will be better in five or ten years, I would not believe it. Still there are many movements of engaged persons which will certainly bear fruits.
LZ: What are your expectations of us Christians in the rich countries?
Gustavo Gutierrez: Poverty is not only a challenge for believers in poor countries. The "preferential option for the poor" is not only true for Latin America, Africa and Asia. It concerns everyone as a way of concretizing the discipleship of Jesus. Solidarity is the greatest challenge of our time?
LZ: What are forms of this solidarity?
Gustavo Gutierrez: Every person and every country must find concrete ways. I merely give one example: foreign debts. Pope John Paul II demands a radical debt relief. Debt relief is very important though not the solution to all problems. Christians of rich countries should exert pressure on the governments of their lands. In these days, remission of debts for central american countries afflicted by the weather catastrophes is emphasized. This is very good. However the relief must be expanded to countries of Africa and also other countries of Latin America. This is a challenge for the rich countries.