�"A SEXUAL ALCHEMY" by Nicholas Robins

Six weeks into the run, Mark Rylance spoke to the Editor about the experience of playing Cleopatra.

Nicholas Robins : Do you think that as a man you have been able to extend the role-playing nature of Cleopatra ‚ and that the barrier of gender was therefore easier for the audience to overcome?

Mark Rylance: Play acting is very important to Cleopatra though she would never be conscious of it. Everything she imagines is immediately real to her. I hit the rehearsal room running like a child, running with delight. It was heightened even more by being the Master of Play in Julius Caesar, - watching others play, but not playing myself. There are more important things than ëlookingí the part or being the physical type of the part. I felt I could play her because there are many things I connect with in the character. These are to do with role playing. She reminds me very much of Peter Pan, a character I have played before. Heís desperate to convince people that heís alive, and that he could grow up but chooses not to; whereas actually he canít grow up. Sheís not reported to have been so beautiful as the reputation she created for herself. Her allure comes from her need to have other people around her. Sheís needy of Antonyís approval. She has a volatile temper and I have a volatile temper. She is changeable and can be very present. Thereís something unpolicied and instinctive about her. She is the antithesis to Octavius, who is so policied and rational. Since Iíve become an artistic director being unpolicied is something I canít live so much now in everyday life ‚ and as I used to when I was an independent actor and had time between jobs. Now I have more Octavius-like responsibilities.

NR: Were you surprised at how readily audiences accepted you as a woman?

MR: They sometimes laugh at the first time I speak, but on the whole I donít feel that theyíre laughing at what I donít want them to laugh at, or being silent when I want them to laugh. I do sometimes feel quite insecure backstage before or after going on, and wonder: I donít know if that went very well. If Iím tired or if I let my critical judgement overwhelm me I get uncomfortable with the performance, but perhaps this is inevitable when you are playing a part thatís physically remote from you. Playing Cleopatra requires quite a leap of faith and itís faith in what youíre doing that counts in the theatre. One of the gifts of the Globe is that it tests the faith of the audience. It tests their willingness to be co-creators in whatever is happening. When we as producers of theatre try and focus very realistically in the theatre we take away a certain delight of it for the audience ‚ the required jump of faith. Some will baulk at what this kind of theatre demands, but the people who leap will say ëI did it ‚ it wasnít just the actors, it was me too.í My prime interest is in the relationship between actors and audiences. That is the main reason to have men playing women this year. We want to encourage people to jump out of their lives. The Globe can help us achieve this.

NR: I sometimes think that it is impossible to tell whether she is calculating or compulsive ‚ which I suppose means sheís both. But youíve leant towards the compulsive side.

MR: She feels that the only way Antony will be saved is if heís defeated and she wins pardon from Caesar to let Antony live a private man. As long as he has forces to fight with heís going to use them. His forces are like the alcohol to an alcoholic, something sheís always trying to remove from him. The film Leaving Las Vegas influenced me in this respect. I tend to agree with what Enobarbus says about her, that she is made of ëthe finest parts of pure loveí. Shakespeare uses her as a literal manifestation of the qualities of love. She is able to dissolve Antony like a hard stone ‚ as in alchemy ‚ so that later he can describe himself as indecipherable as water within water. And itís fitting that she persuades him to fight on water rather than on land. Shakespeare shapes the characters poetically and picks and chooses what bits of the history he wants to bring out. But thereís always the question of whether she ‚ like Venus ‚ is a creature of lust or love. She is that part of us who leads us by her senses rather than her mind. She is a creture of the will, but in the end she does prove herself to be constant.

NR: You mentioned alchemy. Is that something which has been in the back of your mind in forming an idea of Cleopatra?

MR: Ideas like alchemy awaken me to a possible framework in understanding a character. These ideas are not to be expressed directly in the play, but theyíre there. Itís like dropping a part through different sieves and seeing what patterns have created themselves beneath it. But I donít really know how I do what I do. I tend to play. I like to read things about alchemy and so on but then when I get into rehearsals I like to find things out by playing. Some people assume I arrive at a part with an overall interpretation, a consciousness of the whole. I may be ignorant of myself but it feels rather as if I advance step by step, line by line. I build the character up by making small connections. Iím following a need to be believed. Not being believed is the most excruciating thing and I have a terror of that.

NR: Has your experience of playing the part in the Globe changed your approach to the character?

MR: I wish we could develop the character as much after performance as I do in rehearsal. I get attached to the nice reactions from the audience. All the same, itís still changing three weeks before the end of the run. Sheís like a snake you canít grasp and I want to express something ungraspable about her. Iíve gradually introduced more moments of stillness in the early parts of the play and Iím still working on her voice.

NR: Did you experiment with different voices for the part?

MR: Yes, but never a falsetto. In preparing the part I started listening more closely to womenís voices in general and concentrating on their range. Often they do come down into a manís register. If anything, the key is to find more sensuality in the voice. My voice is a bit penetrating , especially if I get angry. Iíve tried to capture a different modulation.

NR: One day, we hope the Globe will create a home for a classical youth theatre. Do you think that one day a boy or adolescent might play a part like Cleopatra at the Globe ‚ perhaps one who has passed through such a training here?

MR: Would you use a boy for Gertrude or the nurse? I havenít been convinced anywhere that they didnít use older actors to play women. Thereís a lot that is held not to have occurred because the reports donít include their use. But even our reports donít report everything we do. I gave myself Cleopatra because I felt that it needed someone with a lot of experience of playing in this theatre and of playing Shakespeare. I thought if it was to go wrong it would really go wrong and it should be me who took that risk. At the moment there isnít the kind of infrastructure for training actors in the classical tradition in this country. And itís also true that any actor who has played before has a running start. A classical youth theatre becomes an increasingly likely possibility here as we develop an artistic process led by masters of different theatre crafts ‚ movement, voice, verse and so on. It will be easier to admit apprentices into such a process than into a more conventional directorial system. Weíre already feeling advantages in this new way of preparing plays for the Globe. The acting company has found real benefit in breaking up the craft into certain disciplines such as verse and voice. This summer weíve looked closer than before at the structure and movement of Shakespeareís verse and prose, which I think may account for the far fewer complaints weíve had about audibility in the theatre this year.

"Around the Globe - The Magazine of Shakespeareís Globe", issue 11, Autumn 1999.