Lahore-based Pakistani scholar and activist thinks that 'in the beginning the state was fundamentalist but now the wider society is increasingly becoming extremist’

by Yoginder Sikand

Mubarak Ali, a leading Pakistani scholar and Lahore-based activist, has been a teacher at the University of Sindh where he used to teach history. Presently, Mr Mubarak is the editor of the Urdu quarterly 'Tarikh', and a guiding light to many emerging historians. With this much experience, his gaze still inspects the spirit of Pakistan in 21st century. This time Mubarak Ali talked on Islam and militancy in contemporary Pakistan.

What do you feel about the current madrasa talk in Pakistan?
Much of this talk is exaggerated. On the whole, the madrasas could create narrow-minded, sectarian students but not terrorists. Not all Taliban had their education from madrasas. But, we have seen that they (Taliban) also included young people educated in modern schools or colleges. They were influenced by the television, radio, newspapers and textbooks. During the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, the Americans motivated madrasa students to engage in armed jehad and prepared for them special textbooks glorifying 'holy war'. Afterwards, when Mulla Omar took power in Afghanistan, he encouraged these students to join him. During this period, they were militarily trained and fought for the new regime in Afghanistan.

How can madrasas be reformed?
In Pakistan, even the modern educational system is quite madrasa-like as far as the curriculum is concerned. The only way out is to radically change and reform the curriculum and introduce social sciences. Instead of realising this necessity, our government is bent upon introducing natural sciences in the madrasa syllabus and providing them with computers. I think this is a useless exercise. It is the social sciences that make people think and help them open their minds.
How successful has Musharraf government been in its dealing with the madrasas?
The Musharraf government lacks vision as far as education is concerned. Musharraf is trying to please both the Americans as well as the mullahs. He is attempting to register the madrasas, but the mullahs have resisted this move and he has no courage to defy them. I think the best way out of the dilemma is to establish faculties of theology at the college and university level and to abolish the madrasa system altogether.

Do you think Pakistani society is ready to redefine Islam with democracy, human rights, women's rights, religious pluralism etc?
As I see it, Pakistan is becoming more fundamentalist day-by-day. In the beginning, the state was fundamentalist. But now, the society at large is increasingly becoming extremist. Mullah is free to issue any fatwa he wants. Rich people in Pakistan prefer to give donations to a madrasa or a mosque rather than to an organisation working for social development. Dictatorship and 'feudal democracy' have disappointed the people, and economic hardship and social problems are forcing them to take refuge in religion. There is little hope for a real democracy in Pakistan. The army is all-powerful and has increased in size, consuming more and more of the country's resources and leaving little for the people. As the nature of state has changed in accordance with the interests of the ruling classes, there is shocking lack of respect for human rights. State institutions treat people as subjects and not citizens. In such a situation, the interpretation of religion is also backward. In presence of Hudood ordinance, women are denied their rights. The religious minorities are often made victims of the blasphemy law. There is little effort being made to develop new Islamic perspectives on issues of contemporary concern.

What are your views on the current relations between Muslims and the West, and on the emergence of Islamist radicalism?
There are several reasons for the emergence of Islamist radicalism and anti-West feelings among the Muslim community. What has happened, and is still happening, to the Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Palestine and Kashmir etc has convinced people that there is a conspiracy against the Muslims by the Christians, Jews and the Hindus. And so, growing numbers of Muslims feel that the only way out is to adopt the path of 'holy war', turning their backs on dialogue. Widespread poverty and economic backwardness is another reason, leading to the feeling of extreme helplessness among many Muslims. Acts of violence provide them with some 'satisfaction' that they can still terrify even their powerful 'enemies'.

Yoginder Sikand is currently engaged in a post-doctoral research project on Islam and Inter-faith relations at the University of London and also edits a website