Friend: ...large comp2 paper that I just can't seem to stretch to 8 pages

Shaun: What's the paper on?

Shaun: Maybe I can help with an idea or two...

Friend: why faulkner county should be wet, not dry

Shaun: Hmm.

Shaun: So what are your reasons so far?

Friend: already covered taxes, jobs, business moving in

Friend: (chain businesses that need a bar to make profits)

Shaun: As in Applebee's?

Friend: exactly

Shaun: And do they really need a bar to make profits?

Friend: to make the profits expected of a business in their chain, yes

Shaun: What about countering arguments about increases in crime, increases in alcoholism, increases in demands for services related to alcoholism?

Friend: addressed using the tax money to fund programs to educate as well as pay for increased law enforcement

Shaun: Alcohol brings a number of other problems - emotional, relationships, etc...

Friend: all of which are likely to be incurred already due to the number of nearby counties that sell alcohol

Friend: it's easy to get...

Friend: esp for a town where a large portion of it's residents drive to LR everyday

Shaun: But when it's more easily obtainable (as in you wouldn't have to go out of town to get it) the problems would increase, wouldn't you think?

Friend: that's where tax dollars hopefully relieve the problem...

Shaun: Hopefully... The hole in the argument...

Friend: but "going out of the way" doesn't pertain to LR employees

Shaun: True...

Friend: and morgan is 15 minutes away

Shaun: But not everyone in the county works in LR.

Shaun: Another thing to consider is losing the attractiveness coming from living in a dry county.

Shaun: That would be an attraction for young families.

Friend: but loss of big business investment into a town they can turn profit on...

Friend: our town has no mall

Friend: no bars

Friend: no large eateries

Shaun: There are already plans for a mall...

Shaun: Despite the lack of alcoholic establishments.

Shaun: Define "large eateries"

Friend: cafe santa fe

Friend: olive garden

Friend: macaroni grille

Shaun: Ryan's Steakhouse?

Friend: any sports bar

Friend: night clubs

Shaun: Outback Steakhouse?

Friend: outback is waiting

Shaun: Ryan's isn't...

Friend: it's not that good though..not a national chain

Shaun: Ryan's isn't a local thing. We have them in Iowa, they're in Michigan, they're other places too.

Shaun: Is that not national?

Shaun: It's at very least regional...

Friend: but not what you'd go on a date to

Shaun: Why not?

Shaun: It's relatively inexpensive for the amount of food you could get...

Shaun: Plus, you have a lot of variety...

Friend: b/c it doesn't have a bar..

Shaun: So?

Friend: a college town should have places for 21 yr olds to drink

Shaun: Are you saying you can't have a date without a bar?

Friend: by not, they are drivign anyone that drinks out of town

Shaun: Maybe that's by choice...

Friend: lost revenue

Shaun: Possibly, but lower costs too...

Shaun: It's a tradeoff that Faulkner County is willing to make...

Friend: no..it's a trade off the owner of liquor license are willing to make

Shaun: ?

Friend: conway has 3 liquor licenses it grants each year..to three businesses...problem is, the same three get it every year (very likely politically skewed)

Shaun: Which ones?

Friend: country club, suppper club, and one other

Shaun: I'm not familiar with Supper Club...

Friend: out towards greenbrier...but tell me that granting the license is purely objective...i doubt it can be done..

Friend: i'm almost certain it's voted for by the city council..

Shaun: What is Supper Club though?

Friend: why shouldn't outback be given one

Friend: eating establishment

Shaun: How long has Supper Club been given a liquor license?

Shaun: Has it been there longer than Outback?

Shaun: That could have something to do with it.

Friend: supper club has been here a long time...but is it fair to only give licenses to "old" businesses? it still drives away companies that could help the economy

Shaun: I'm not saying that necessarily makes it right, but that could be a reason behind it.

Shaun: It could be that they have a freeze on granting new licenses.

Friend: probably politically motivated it true

Shaun: Possibly, but not necessarily.

Shaun: If you tried hard enough, you could make anything politically motivated.

Shaun: But that doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

Shaun: You know?

Friend: true..but hard to say that it's objective..something always affects someone's decision

Friend: bias is unavoidable

Shaun: Including the bias of uninformed observers. You can't tell me you know everything that goes into granting a liquor license, can you?

Friend: i can tell you that the entire practice limits conway's growth

Shaun: I don't either. That's why I'm not claiming I know why they aren't granting more...

Shaun: Is that necessarily a bad thing? Seems to me Conway is growing faster than they can keep up...

Friend: no..it's slowed down..

Shaun: If you don't believe me, try driving down Prince Street or Donaghey at about 8:00 or 3:30...

Friend: residential growth has always been a factor, but not commercial..

Friend: conway always shops LR

Shaun: Well, Indianola shops Des Moines, but they're still growing by leaps and bounds...

Friend: but losing money all the while

Shaun: Losing money where?

Friend: to shoppers that go elsewhere

Shaun: And making the county wet would change that because...?

Friend: tax dollars build things

Shaun: I mean, just because a county is wet doesn't necessarily mean that businesses will just flock here...

Shaun: We're in an era of tax cuts though, and services are often the first to go. How will you support the additional services that would be required when there isn't a significant amount of additional taxes coming in, combined with constant pressure to cut taxes?

Shaun: Yet still keep a balanced budget?

Friend: luxury taxes aren't being cut like necessity taxes

Friend: alcohol is a luxury

Shaun: All taxes are being cut...

Shaun: With the possible exception of sales tax...

Shaun: And if a lot of people had their way, that tax would be cut too.

Friend: not in this county

Friend: too many religious groups to allow it to come in and be untaxed

Shaun: I'm talking about sales tax...

Friend: taxation on the sale of alcohol?

Shaun: Taxation on sales in general.

Friend: my argument isn't taxation on goods in general

Shaun: People don't like paying taxes.

Friend: taxation of alcohol

Shaun: Plus, if we were to get a number of bars in Conway, that would hurt property values.

Friend: depending on location

Shaun: True, but who would want to live near one and take the hit in property value?

Shaun: Or who would want to build a business near one?

Friend: who says they'd have to?

Shaun: Where else would they go?

Friend: conway isn't exactly w/out open spaces

Shaun: Most of those are probably planned for anyway. Zoning regulations.

Shaun: Plus, wouldn't such a decision go up for a general election vote?

Friend: but that isn't the argument either

Friend: dry/wet county?

Shaun: Right.

Friend: yep, thus my argument for

Shaun: So how are you going to answer the questions I asked, because those are questions that people against making Faulkner a wet county would probably come up with.

Shaun: They're calling for SUN tomorrow!

Shaun: Oh happy day!

Friend: restate the question?

Shaun: (Sorry. Just excited that we may actually see the sun...)

Friend: no joke

Shaun: You said you were trying to stretch your paper to 8 pages.

Shaun: Why not include some of your responses to some of the questions I asked?

Friend: the rebuttal shouldn't be the longest part

Friend: and those questions took too much development

Shaun: What do you mean?

Shaun: "Took too much development?"

Friend: to get to those questions would take too much development of a paper that should be focused on argument, not rebuttal...

Friend: the paragraph to put the question into situation would be lengthy

Shaun: Well, argue in anticipation of the questions.

Shaun: You know that they exist, so argue the benefits that would outweigh those concerns.

Friend: i've already given the benefits

Shaun: (Which I haven't exactly heard yet...)

Shaun: But do those benefits really outweigh the concerns?

Friend: sure

Friend: you can always solve problems

Friend: even those that don't exist

Shaun: So why are we still in debt (as a country), and why is education so expensive?

Shaun: And why are teachers paid so poorly when they shape our future?

Shaun: Why do we pay basketball players more than the "leader of the free world" ???

Shaun: These are all problems.

Shaun: How have we worked to solve them?

Shaun: Or have we?

Friend: b/c the people that can fix it..don't

Shaun: (Can you tell I like philosophical discussions? ;-))

Shaun: So why do we put up with it? We elect the "people that can fix it" to their positions.

Friend: pay isn't done by congress or any other elected position (pro athletes)

Shaun: How do you "fix" an attitude?

Friend: as americans, there isn't a problem w/teacher pay

Shaun: Teacher pay is done by politicians.

Friend: yes, but it's not a problem

Shaun: Whether it's school board, state, or federal.

Friend: not a problem

Shaun: If it's not a problem, why is there such a teacher shortage?

Shaun: There aren't enough people training to be teachers to replace those that will be retiring in the next five years.

Shaun: There is a push for smaller class sizes, but no money to hire new teachers.

Friend: not a problem

Friend: only a problem is majority of people agree with ti

Friend: and obviously, they don't

Shaun: Agree with what?

Friend: agree that there need to be smaller classes or teacher pay raises or new teachers

Shaun: The thing is, if we want to maintain our education system, even as is, we're not going to be able to unless teaching becomes a more attractive profession.

Shaun: And most people are NOT satisfied with our current education system.

Friend: our teaching system is inferior to almost all other comparable nations...possibly we should change to emulate their gov

Shaun: Colleges and universities are having to spend more time and resources on remedial classes, taking faculty from major courses needed to allow people to graduate on track.

Shaun: It's not necessarily a change in government that we need though.

Shaun: It's a change in priorities.

Friend: you can't change priorities of a people

Friend: you can change their gov't

Shaun: And therein lies the problem with both situations, the wet/dry and the education.

Friend: not comparable

Shaun: Yes, they are.

Friend: nope

Shaun: If making Faulkner a wet county was a priority, wouldn't the people of the county have made it happen?

Friend: i'm not arguing that it's a priority

Shaun: OK, so why should we change it?

Friend: to make money!

Friend: and as a convenienc

Friend: e

Shaun: Will it really make enough money to cover the additional costs that would come with it?

Shaun: You still haven't answered that question...

Friend: what costs?

Shaun: Jail space, counseling services, rehabilitation programs, just to name a few...

Friend: if "additional costs" are a problem, then tax it more

Friend: counseling isn't a cost..it's a business

Shaun: It's a cost too though.

Shaun: If nothing else, it's a human cost.

Friend: places that allow drinking make it work elsewhere,

Friend: implement the same here

Shaun: What do you mean?

Friend: wet counties haven't fallen apart

Friend: why should this one?

Shaun: Depends on who you ask.

Friend: when it's already surrounded

Shaun: Plus, a lot of those counties have been dealing with the situation longer than we have.

Friend: gotta start sometime

Shaun: Do you think we have the resources in place to deal with them?

Shaun: How do you propose we get to that point, if not?

Friend: did they when they begain?

Shaun: Were they ever dry?

Shaun: (An honest question, because I don't know...)

Friend: nope...but did the money come from taxation of alcohol?

Shaun: Is there a separate alcohol tax?

Friend: yep

Shaun: I have never heard of a separate alcohol tax anywhere else...

Shaun: Must be an Arkansas thing...

Friend: how about this number..

Friend: taxation on alcohol took in 15 billion dollars last year in the US

Friend: why not get a piece of the overly large pie

Shaun: OK, but what about court costs from drunk driving accidents, the accidents themselves, health insurance costs, hospital costs, etc.?

Shaun: You can't tell me that was all covered by that 15 billion...

Friend: we aren't immune to them now..if there weren't alcohol in the county i would accept that argument, but it comes in daily as people drive home or 15 minutes to go get it

Shaun: We aren't immune, sure, but how much more would we have to deal with if it were more readily available?

Shaun: And would it be worth that?

Friend: it takes 15 minutes to drive across conway..."more readily available" isn't much more ready

Shaun: But if it takes 15 minutes to drive across Conway, it must take longer to get out of Conway...

Friend: not if you take the highways that run around it

Shaun: Dave Ward isn't exactly the quickest way around...

Friend: but much faster than donaghey or harkrider

Shaun: Especially if you go at certain times of day...

Shaun: Possibly.

Friend: definitely

Shaun: Depending on your point of origin...

Shaun: Even then though...

Shaun: It would still be more readily available if it were sold here in town.

Friend: yes

Shaun: And so would the problems.

Shaun: Binge drinking, drunk driving, alcoholism, abuse stemming from alcohol use, etc.

Friend: but can you say the increase would be greater than the benefits?

Shaun: Well, I would argue that insurance rates (especially auto) would be higher...

Shaun: That may be more of a hidden cost.

Shaun: But it's still a cost.

Friend: more obvioulsy felt by those who drink/wreck

Shaun: And those they hit...

Shaun: Or abuse...

Friend: only if they are accident prone

Shaun: Or steal from...

Friend: which makes security companies more money

Shaun: Makes the companies more money, sure, but not the average person.

Friend: learn to invest!

Shaun: And it's the average person that should be the concern when trying to determine costs versus benefits.

Shaun: Most families don't have enough to invest.

Shaun: They're struggling already to save for retirement, their children's education, etc.

Shaun: At any rate, I need to get to bed...

Friend: me too

Friend: thanks for the discussion thoguh

Shaun: Sure. Glad to help. :-)