... posted by Michael from Sydney  on Sunday, 25 February 2001, at 5:09 p.m.
 

                       Hi all,

                       I have just had an email from someone who wants to buy an R but stated

                       > I am based in Sydney an am looking at buying a 2nd hand '96 850R manual s/wagon with 46k on the
                       > clock. It is very straight, but I tested a '94 T5 sedan on the same day (auto) and it seemed
                       > noticeably quicker under hard acceleration... The dealer wants $38 000.00 for the 850 R and this
                       > power thing is the only real reservation I am having about parting with the cash. Do you know of any
                       >> places I may have the car independently given the once over (...etc)

                       I can help him with the info on specialists to sus the car out, but I was wondering whether any of you
                       have thoughts on the matter. I thought that the R should definitely pack more wallop than an auto T-5.

                       thanks

                       Michael

                       (PS Those in America, don't freak out over the cost, it is $AUD!)

                       --
                       Michael from Sydney

... posted by omni88 on Sunday, 25 February 2001, at 6:43 p.m. ...in response to ""R" manual
                       slower than T-5 auto???" posted by Michael from Sydney.
 

                       Well, all things being equal, the MANUAL R has 10 hp more and about 20-30 Nm more torque. But,
                       off the line in 1st gear they are regulated to 260 Nm in an attempt to maintain traction. Still, a perfect
                       manual R should accelerate harder off the line by about 1/2 sec. Whether or not one would notice it seat
                       of pants is moot though... And most people with some mechanical sympathy can reproduce factory auto
                       figures more readily than sidestepping the clutch on a manual...

                       Whether either car still makes factory hp could be questioned, so a quick power run on a dyno could tell
                       you quite a bit (find a reputable operator with big cooling fans or you'll risk some unpleasant explaining
                       to do back at the dealers.)

                       also, it is quite possible the T5-R is not stock. I drove one a while back that had that characteristic
                       "psst" from an external blow off valve - dead giveaway. Or they may have simply done the wastegate
                       actuator mod so you don't make any more max boost but get there quicker by not initiating bleed off so
                       soon. Makes the car feel quicker for sure.

                       Also, Fueltronics, Chip Torque, Powerchip et al all reprogram Turbo Volvos - so see if you can get the
                       car by yourselves somewhere where you can check inside the ECU without upsetting the owner/dealer.

                       --
                       omni88

... posted by omni88 on Sunday, 25 February 2001, at 6:47 p.m. ...in response to ""R" manual
                       slower than T-5 auto???" posted by Michael from Sydney.
 

                       A thousand apologies, didn't read message properly... assumed T5-R vs R. If you talking about a std T5
                       then yeah, 225hp vs 250hp. Even allowing for wear and tear on either car, R should best T5. Again, it is
                       trivial to reprogram a T5 to have similar engine map to T5-R/R so maybe it has been modded ?

                       --
                       omni88

... posted by Yannis Alatzas  on Sunday, 25 February 2001, at 7:01 p.m. ...in response to ""R"
                       manual slower than T-5 auto???" posted by Michael from Sydney.
 

                       All things being equal, meaning that both cars are in about the same mechanical condition, the 850R
                       should leave the T-5 automatic BEHIND! Especially if it is a non-US "R" model where they have
                       250HP rating. First gear, as Omni88 correctly pointed out below, is "regulated" so they should be about
                       the same but the R in second and third gear (as a manual T-5 would also be) is going to be...devilish!

                       Manual R....wow...I have driven once a Black 1998 V70 R AWD manual, in Greece for about 350
                       miles...I am still trying to relive the...dream , what a "monster"!

                       Yannis

                       --
                       (on order--3more days!) '01 V70 T5 M, Red/Graph L, Sunroof, Cold Weather, 4CD Surr.Sound, 17"
                       Tethys Alloys
 

                       I notice day-to-day differences in performance. The ECU might
                       allow more boost given the fuel, temperature, etc. on any
                       given day as it tries to give you the max power available for
                       the given conditions. Disconnecting the battery for a bit (resets
                       the ECU) can also make the car faster for about 10 miles as
                       the ECU goes to default settings and then "re-tunes" to the
                       fuel, temp, etc. (the default settings are not at all conservative,
                       as far as I can tell, since my T5M is a rocket right after an ECU
                       reset).

                       The T5 could also have an aftermark ECU.

                       My other thought is a manually tranny may take a bit of experience
                       to learn how to drive it fast. Floor it at 2000 RPM and not much
                       happens. Downshift a gear (or two) and floor it and it takes off.

                       --
                       Ray Niblett 95 855 GLT / 98 S70 T5M

Thanks guys,

More than enough good information here to help our prospective fellow-volvo-owner. Interesting how cars might vary based on history, climate, driving, etc.

And yannis, I imagine if that was not an AWD then things would have been even more devilish (- if posts that talk about how AWD slows you down a bit are correct.)

michael