oil change [850][1994]  ... posted by Don  on Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 11:46 a.m.
 

                       I'm getting ready to change the oil in my recently purchased '94 Turbo
                       850--Is there anything I need to know, or is it as straight-forward as
                       it appears? I changed oil in my 240's for years but, for some reason,
                       I'm a little intimidated by my 850(a technical marvel compared to the
                       old 240 series). Thanks in advance for replies to this really basic
                       question.

                       --
                       Don Hurt

                       In fact I just do mine 1 month ago... to remove the oil filter you can reach your hand in from the bottom
                       without jacking the car up from the passenger side and twist the filter out....

                       the oil filter located about 1 foot in from the front pumper....

                       it was a shocker when I can do it ....

                       cake walk... it fun it cheap it is easy....

... posted by Ray Niblett  on Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 12:47 p.m. ...in response to "oil
                       change" posted by Don.
 

                       You will want a new crush washer for the drain bolt. It should
                       be aluminum (don't accept the copper ones).

                       The pan you drain into should hold 6 quarts (mine nearly
                       overflows with all the oil).

                       When you poor the oil in it is easy to spill it around the filler
                       and down under the spark plug cover. I use a rag around the filler
                       as I pour in the oil to catch any spills.

                       --
                       Ray Niblett 95 855 GLT / 98 S70 T5M

... posted by Terry Haywood  on Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 6:53 p.m. ...in response to "Re:
                       oil change" posted by Ray Niblett.
 
 

                       Might be a dumb question, but what's wrong with a copper washer for the oil drain bolt? That's what the
                       dealer gave me when I picked one up, but maybe I _asked_ for a copper washer since that's what I'm
                       used to from my 240. When I started changing the oil in my '97 there wasn't any washer on it, Jiffy-Lube
                       had I guess thrown it out (and then torqued the drain bolt to about 6000 ft-lbs to keep it from dripping).
                       So, I didn't have anything (copper or aluminum) to go by.

                       Now that I think of it, the '95 850 I just bought and had been dealer serviced before I got it had a
                       copper washer...

                       I used to use a nylon washer in my 240. It worked great for years until I dropped it in the drain pan. I
                       didn't like it enough to fish it out. Anything wrong with nylon? It didn't need to be replaced was the nice
                       thing about it.

                       Not trying to start a religious war about drain plug washer material, just curious what difference it
                       makes.

... posted by Nathan  on Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 7:13 p.m. ...in response to "Re: oil
                       change" posted by Terry Haywood.
 

                       Get yourself a pair of "Rhino Ramps" to get acccess underneath.

                       Well worth the investment.

                       Also get your self a decent torque wrench - the drain plug needs only 18 foot pounds of torque -DO
                       NOT OVERTIGHTEN !!

... posted by Nathan  on Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 7:11 p.m. ...in response to "Re: oil
                       change" posted by Terry Haywood.
 

                       The reason you want an aluminum washer is that a copper washer require too much torque to
                       compress/crush to form an adequate seal.

                       The risk of applying too much torque in compressing the copper washer is you risk "stripping" your
                       VERY EXPENSIVE engine oil pan.

                       Hey, no war intended - just my understanding of the facts.

                       FWIW- I too have errored in the past using copper washers on my 1995 Volvo 850 Turbo.

... posted by Terry Haywood  on Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 8:29 p.m. ...in response to
                       "Why Aluminum Washers >>>Re: oil change" posted by Nathan.
 
 

                       I learned something today! I didn't know about the copper vs. aluminum washers. I was half expecting
                       something about corrosion between dissimilar metals, didn't even think about the amount of crush force
                       needed.
 
 

 The Haynes manual suggests 26ft.lbs of torque for the engine oil drain plug. However, it does not specify
 between aluminum and copper crush washers.

 Recently, I checked Volvospeed.com and they recommend 26ft.lbs only for the aluminum and more for the
 copper.

 If you use the copper, what torque should you use?
 --

 Sin,

 Do not use copper washers !

 The reason being that the add'l torque required to obtain the proper seal ( "crush") can damage the drain
 pan. A replacement drain pan is mucho dinero !

 Hey - I used copper washers a few times myself before I learned of this risk..

 The local dealership have all been using copper, and don't even carry the aluminum ones.

 So where do you recommend I get them from?
 --

 sin, There is no question that the dealerships in your area are using the wrong crush washer. On these
 white engines only the alum ones should be used.
 If you cant get one of the Volvo dealers in your area to order them for you, I think your best bet would be to
 order a hand full from Borton or Nils Sfeldt....or oen of those mail order guys.
 BTW: If you need the Volvo PN, just e-mail me, and I will look it up or ya.

 --
 Steve Ferraro / Hoboken, NJ / 2000 S70-GLT

                                     Steves 2000 S70/GLT

 I am not sure why people throw away the washers after every oil change. I've almost never had to do that
 on any of my cars and have never had drips or oil pan damage. I also have NEVER torqued the oil drain
 plug with anything more precise than my own oomph meter. One oomph for most of the cars I owned. If the
 car is new to me, I start with one oomph and look for drips the next few days. If there is a drip, I add one
 more oomph. So far on my S70 I've been using the same washer (aluminum that came with the car when
 new) with one oomph and no drips, no oil pan damage approaching 25K miles with oil change about every
 5K). No ofense, but you guys have to get a life if you are torquing the oil drain plugs with a torque wrench ;)
 And save yourself some time and trouble (if not money) and just re-use the darend thing. If you see drips,
 tighten some more and rive on. You will prpbably eventually wear out the washer (too many crushings) and
 will have to replace it, but not every oil change. I hope this thread doesn't get too long as this is one of the
 least important topics I've ever seen (giving good competition to "what kind of tire valve caps you are
 using and what the torque setting is).

 I'll shut up and flame-shield myself now.
 

 --
 Vladimir. Base 1998 S70 5-speed manual.

 You know, I agree...I used the same aluminum crush ring on my 98 V70 until the last oil change...I bought a
 new filter at the local dealer and they "threw in a new ring" so I said what the heck---changed the ring and
 tightened up...now I have a case of the drips--cant stop it and am not willing to dump 6 quarts of Mobil 1 to
 replace the crush ring again so I'll wait until nex oil change but dont plan on replacing that ring every time I
 change the oil in the future.
 --
 Mikebox, 98V70, 95Chev Blazer, "oily garage floor"

 Sin
 the part number for the crush washer is 977751, it's the same number for the transmission drain plug.
 Often the dealers will have the crush washer for the trans and claim no knowledge of the aluminium for the
 oil plug. Ask for the part number and see if they have it. Next bet is try the mail order guys, I'm sure they
 would be glad to help.
 --
 Rich K.

 IPD carries the aluminum washer. My dealer offers only the copper despite numerous requests for the
 aluminum. VOLVO of America, how about publishing a TSB on this complex topic.

 Mikebox, let me get this straight. You were using the same old washer since 1998 and no problems. You
 put a new washer recently and now you have a leak you can't eliminate? Does this mean that maybe we
 should not change the washer EVER? I am not sure. Please clarify. Do you have a leak with a new washer
 or with the old one? I just don't see why I would want to put a new washer on if the old one doesn't leak? I
 think this is the case of "If it ain't broke, leave it well enough alone".

 Thanks.
 

 --
 Vladimir. Base 1998 S70 5-speed manual. Deluxe plastic tire valve caps all around. Still on the original oil
 drain plug washer and going strong.

 Vladimir,

 These are a use once and throw away item.
 For the ¢.50 or so cents they cost.....once they ave been "crushed", and done their job of sealing the drain
 plug to oil pad union they will not be as maliable(sp) and may not seal as well.
 I just dont get it....what the hell is the big deal? These should not be used more than once....and for the
 price why would you want to re-use one?
 --
 Steve Ferraro / Hoboken, NJ / 2000 S70-GLT

 I just had Dan at www.volvoparts.com ship me 20. About $0.80 each.

 DO NOT use copper - don't trust any mechanic or dealer that does. I got my copper washers from a dealer
 I'll never go to again.

 Good luck,
 Barry

 Geesh, are we ever wearing this most complex issue out !

 We'll I consulted with Professor Swede at the Volvo Institute of Aluminum Washer Technology and this is
 what he said " Ya aluminum ein nein to copper".

 Ya see- the drain pan is made of soft aluminum. The torque required to crush copper is too mucho for the
 pan.

 Aluminum washers will crush and make seal= no leakey oil.

 I have been changing the oil and filter on my 850 for over five years (every 5,000 miles) and replace the
 washer each time with never a peep of a drop of oil.

 Can we now progress to how to add oil to the engine ??

 All in jest - but really, next subject please !

 Steve, there is no big deal, I just wanted to point out to people that it is not ESSENTIAL to change that
 thing EVERY time. The issue is not the cost, obviously, but the trouble. If you don't have one on hand do
 you run to the dealer? Do you abandon the oil change? I say NO, go right ahaead an re-use the old washer
 and don't loose any sleep over it. And if you don't happen to have a high prescision torque wrench on
 hand, I say: just live a little on the edge and change the oil anyway using "your best guess" method. This is
 not brain surgery.

 So, unless this horse is not quite dead yet, I'll stop now (but hey, this is the "entertainment" aspect of this
 wonderful board :) I love you, guys).

 P.S. I now declare tire valve caps a throw-away item to be replaced with the new set every time you check
 your pressure! What's the big deal? They're only $10/year's supply.
 

 --
 Vladimir. 1998 S70. Base, 5-speed manual.

 Hey now! To all you guys - regarding the drain plug washer issue, here's what I would suggest, but do it at
 your own risk/discretion: Weld the frickin nut to the pan, that way you don't ever have to replace the washer
 again - ever. End of story. All in good humor!

 You say yam, I say sweet potato. Who's right anyway????????? The darn washers only cost a few cents
 anyway. If I could only find some sperm whale oil to use in my engine, I wouldn't have to worry about oil
 changes anyhow.

 Best regards,
 Bou Bou

 Hey,

 Does anyone know where I can buy an Oomph meter? I think it is used to measure Elbow Grease but I
 could be wrong. Just kiddin', ladies and gentlemen. Remember, a smile a day keeps the blues away.

 Bou Bou

 I have never changed an oil drain plug washer in my life.
 --
 Ken

 Ken wrote:

 > I have never changed an oil drain plug washer in my life.

 I used to have a VW Rabbit GTI and the washers on those suckers were the holow type (copper), so you
 structurally crushed them when tightening the drain plug. That was the only washer I ever changed. Even
 that one I managed to re-use 3 or 4 times. This is when I learned the wisdom of re-using them. I didn't feel
 like abandoning an oil change on a Sunday (dealer closed), so I just flipped the old one upside down and
 re-crushed it. No drips no leaks, no oil pan damage. I had that car for several years and 40K miles with no
 oil pan problems whatsoever.

 Cheers.
 --
 Vladimir. 1998 S70. Base, 5-speed manual.

 Vladimir,

 I like your idea about making valve caps a "throw-away item", you can never get those darn little grooves
 completely free of brake dust anyways ;-)

 The great thing about the more trivial topics is that everyone has an opinion, and they're not afraid to
 express it. This makes for a fun and interesting thred.

 Koz.

 I was busy lately and missed this wonderful trend about the oil drain plug. After spending some time on this
 board I did buy new aluminum washers and used one for my last oil change. I used one oomph (sp?:-)for
 torque, something crushed, either the washer of the oil pan thread, I'll find out at my next oil change.
 NOW, to pour some gasoline into this lively discussion - why not use nylon washers? I used them on my
 Hondas and Olds before, they require very little torque and seal well. There were no oil drops and
 practically no effort unscrewing the plug. I was tempted to try this on the Volvo, but was horrified about this
 crazy thought.

 Yuri

 Actually, that's what a guy at a mod shop recommended.

 And I would be more then happy to try it out. But I'm not big on wasting AMSOIL to test this out when I have
 access to the alluminum washer originally designed to be used for this application.

 BTW, for those that have been in this thread, I found a local source for the washers.
 --

 Sin wrote:

 > And I would be more then happy to try it out. But I'm not big on
 > wasting AMSOIL to test this out when I have access to the alluminum
 > washer originally designed to be used for this application.

 Strange, you seem to be willing to throw away a perfectly functioning ECU chip that was designed for this
 application (not to mention about 10 lines in 6 pt font - worth of other stuff), but not a washer...

 :}

 --
 Vladimir. 1998 S70. Base, 5-speed manual.

 I agree, and there is absolutely no harm, only some entertainment!

 Smile on.
 

 --
 Vladimir. 1998 S70. Base, 5-speed manual.

 You're a barrel of laughs man. You're becoming almost as annoyingly/stupidly funny as Dan. Well, maybe
 not that bad, but pretty close.

 But seriously, you should know by now that the stock programming doesn't come close to the potential the
 engine is capable of. I would bet that with regular maintenance, the increase in wear wouldn't be
 noticeable even to the best engine builders.

 And what else did I throw away? My exhaust? I still have that actually. The air filter, and air box, I've still got
 them too, and I can put all the stock parts back on almost anytime I choose. So what have I wasted?

 BTW, I like the obviously accurate use of one precise "oomph" for torquing the engine oil drain plug. It
 makes sense to go with an "oomph" that doesn't allow for overtightening. Yes, if you notice leaks as a
 result of too little torque, go right ahead and tighten it up, and more then likely, about the only harm done
 will be a couple drops of oil. But what if your "oomph" is too tight? By then, the damage is done. Talk about
 bad decisions here.

 Sin, by your own logic, live a little and try that nylon washer (but don't throw away the aluminum one he-he).
 Anyway, what I meant was a little sarcasm in noticing that you have modified your car heavily, but are
 afraid of trying a different washer in the oil drain plug stating the OEM design superiority as a reason.
 C'mon, I could not resist that one. All in good fun. Modify to your heart's desire. I have fun reading your
 posts, but allow me to chuckle when you ask what torque you should use for the drain plug. Hence the
 oomph suggestion. I give credit to everyone on this board to be smart enough and/or cautious enough to
 not over-tighten their drain plugs. Funny, I have owned and maintained my own cars since 1981 and have
 performed many, many oil changes and the question of torque value for the oil plug has just never come
 up. Never ruined an oil pan either (well, not by performing an oil change, anyway). Dude, relax and let go of
 your numbers for a moment and embrace life as it is. I agree in some places proper torque is essential (I
 am a recent adapter of torquing my wheels, even), but an oil drain plug? Time to take a break from nuts
 and bolt and take a good hard drive in that screamer of yours, man.

 Keep smiling.

 --
 Vladimir. 1998 S70. Base, 5-speed manual.

 ...HEY, This "AIR ISSUE" has been funny as Hell!...I Think it evolved from the tendency to take Our Cars
 Too Seriously...Man, I Really started Laughing when I read the Whole Group! Thanx Everyone!!!

 AL

 1995 T-5R, PS, PB, Turbo, BIG Tires(Swedish Racing Air), Nice Stereo (getting ready to buy more CD's),
 Chip, Waxed Recently (Good Wax), oiled door hinges, tire shine, High Performance Washer Fluid, Power
 Windows (tinted), Deer Alert Whistle, High Torque valve stem caps(plastic .000156ft/pds), Synthetic
 Gasoline, Low Drag Window Cleaner(00.0024HP Gain),Highly Intelligent Driver...HAVE FUN Folks!

 Considering the aluminum washers are less then a buck, I'm not really worried about buying a new one for
 each oil change. And since I'm not doing another oil change until atleast late fall, I'll probably pick up a
 dozen or so when I go to my local dealership's annual "garage sale" held every September. I get atleast
 20% off, so it'll make the washers so cheap, I couldn't possibly rationalize not using a new one each time.

 It's not a matter of not wanting to try a different washer, it's a matter of not wanting to waste engine oil on a
 cheap part.

 And regarding oil pans, nowadays, more oil pans are aluminum instead of steel, and as you probably
 know, aluminum is a heck of a lot softer then steel. So I think it is only prudent to use the specified torque.
 And with all the rotor warping problems associated with 850/_70s, I can't possibly imagine a reason NOT
 to torque the wheel lugs accordingly.

 Thanks for the reminder to lighten up. I just didn't want you to become another Dan. I've read a number of
 your posts, and I find a lot of good points in them. It's just that I noticed a certain shadow of Dan in your
 posts, and didn't want you to stray to the "dark side."
 --

 Dan is this guy that feels insulting others is the way to persuade them to take his own opinions.

 A while back, there was a discussion regarding synthetic ATF. He made a number of pseudo-proofs that
 synthetic ATF would not benefit us, because "ATF is one of the most over-engineered lubricants in the
 world." And because of flawed logic, irrelevant analogies such as "Who says elephants in the petunias is
 caused by a lack of naked arm-waving?" that are made irrelevant by the initial flawed logic in his
 explanations, many got tired of reading his posts. And things starting getting really bad when he started
 telling people what to do and what not to do.

 Check this post from him, and the replies to his post.

 No, I am not him, but he has a lot of good points to contribute to this forum. Also, he raced his stock turbo
 brick to Pike's peak several times and has over 100K miles on it running well (I think, Dave?). I call this
 real-world experience as opposed to number crunching. Yes, I agree, he can be overbrearing, but he is
 often correct, too. I am glad my tranny is manual and I could just assume a position of observer on that ATF
 thread, but boy, he had you guys foamed at the mouth by stating some common sense things. I am not
 sure what I would do if I had an auto, but Dave's advice was, as I recall: replace the fluid when it looks and
 smells bad with what Volvo puts in there. Seems more than reasonable to me. Now, the way he said it may
 not have been exactly diplomatic, but his point was no less valid for that.

 Anyway, I am not him and I am not you, I am MYSELF, I am UNIQUE (just like everyone else).

 Cheers.

 --
 Vladimir. 1998 S70. Base, 5-speed manual.