Page 2.
By Mr. Weinglass - 45, 158
By Ms. Fisk - 76, 166
Page 3.
(At l0:30 a.m. the hearing was convened in the
presence
of the Court and councel.)
THE COURT: Good morning, everyone.
MS. FISK: Your Honor, I understand that Counsel has a
request to put something on the record at sidebar if we may, please.
THE COURT: Well...
MR. WEINGLASS: Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Good morning.
MR. WEINGLASS: Yesterday afternoon Miss Fisk gave me a
sealed envelope containing the name of a person who came forward to the
District Attorney's Office indicating they had relevant information on the
case. I have examined the letter and the letter contained the name and the
address of the individual. And last night we went out to his home and he
was not there. We are told that he is not available
Page 4.
at the moment; but I went with an investigator who left
his card and instructed people at the home to contact me as soon as they
have heard from this individual.
I just wanted to make a record of it. I appreciate the
District Attorney's Office coming forward immediately with an individual
who came to their office and providing the information. And I just wanted
to indicate for the record that we are following up on this information
but we haven't had contact with this person yet.
MS. FISK: Could I borrow the letter for a minute?
Your Honor, just so the record is complete: The letter
dated August 9th advises Counsel that a Mr. Michael Jones, whose address
is given to Counsel as we received it from Mr. Jones, came to the District
Attorney's Office yesterday. Also pursuant to our obligations established
by the United States Supreme Court, we advised Counsel that Mr. Jones
advised personnel at our office that he was a witness to the shooting of
Officer Faulkner and that it was Mr. Jamal's brother who was the
Page 5.
person who shot Officer Faulkner, when Officer Faulkner
was shot. I also advised Counsel this morning this morning that after
detectives, persons heard that information come from Mr. Jones, that Mr.
Jones was advised that he would be wanted by the defense. He was provided
with the address at the hotel where the attorneys -- I'm sorry -- where
the detectives understood the defense attorneys were staying and was
advised to go to that hotel immediately to speak to the defense
attorneys.
So it was immediately after Mr. Jones left our office
that we came back to Court and I provided that information to Counsel.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: And we wouldn't have been there at that
time, just so the record, I just want to make it clear.
MS. FISK: I didn't know where else to send them.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Fine, but at that point we wouldn't have
been there because we were in Court or lunch break.
MS. FISK: We assumed that this was a hotel and there was an individual
we could leave a message with.
Page 6.
MR. WEINGLASS: For future reference: We do have people staffed at the
Rudovsky office.
MS. FISK: We will send them there in the future.
MR. WEINGLASS: Could we have this portion of the record
sealed so it doesn't become public information? Is there any objection to
that?
THE COURT: I don't know how anybody will know that, he is
not typing it up yet. So unless somebody says something, it's there for
what it's worth.
MR. BURNS: What is the point of sealing it?
MR. WEINGLASS: Well, I think giving this information to
the public, number one, impedes our ability to contact this person. It
impacts our ability to talk to other witnesses. It creates a rumor based
on information that hasn't been obtained or evaluated. And I just think
it's very detrimental to the defense as a whole. I just ask that it be
sealed.
MS. FISK: Well, Your Honor, I am certainly not going to tell anybody
about it. I
Page 7.
fulfilled my obligations under the law by notifying
defense Counsel. I would assume, therefore, that if it becomes public
knowledge it came from a source other than me. And sealing this record
would not prevent any persons who already know this information from
divulging information.
MR. BURNS: There are allegations that information has
been hidden by the defense throughout this case. And I don't think it is
appropriate to be sealing parts of the record.
MR. WEINGLASS: There already have been parts sealed.
MR. BURNS: Well, I think there is no point to sealing this part of the
record.
THE COURT: Well, I don't know the necessity of sealing
it. I am assuming nobody is going to talk about it. But you have put it on
the record for what it's worth. I don't intend to talk to anybody. I don't
talk to the news media anyway. But you people talk to the news media so
you keep it quiet. I'm not going to say anything. All right?
MS. FISK: Yes, sir.
Page 8.
THE COURT: Do we have that witness...
MR. WEINGLASS: Your Honor, we'll have to be... Mr.
Harmon, William Harmon is indeed in the Courthouse today. He was made
available to defense Counsel this morning. It's the first time I've met
the gentleman. As the Court is aware, he did not testify in 1982. We are
dealing with an individual who has written to his attorney on July 29th
and his attorney made known to the prosecution and the defense Counsel his
name, I believe on August 2nd or 3rd. And one of the defense Counsel,
Rachel Wolkenstein, visited him on August 3rd, immediately thereafter. And
I spoke to him for the first time this morning, just before Court.
He is a person who claims he was there at the time of the
shooting. He claims he witnessed the shooting, both of Mr. Jamal and of
Officer Faulkner. Understandably, his recollection is affected by the
passage of time. He asked to see photographs of the scene so that his
recollection could be refreshed. We had
Page 9.
hoped that we would have photographs by this time. We had
asked for photographs going back and when the Court was in adjournment an
Tuesday, the day before yesterday, we understood that we would be hearing
from inspector detective or lieutenant Walsh, and we did hear at five
o'clock on Tuesday and then we were informed I believe yesterday that we
wouldn't have crime scene photographs until early next week.
So I would ask that we be provided with the photographs
so the witness may examine the photographs so that his recollection going
back over 13 years could be refreshed by photos of the scene. I represent
to the Court that the defense does not have photographs. I don't know what
happened to the photographs that were taken by Mr. Peraneau and apparently
given to Mr. Jackson. But in any event, I represent to the Court I have
never seen them. And we do not have photographs to show this witness.
There are photographs in existence. And we will have them I'm told on
Monday or Tuesday.
So that I would ask first that the photographs be provided to the
witness and shown
Page 10.
to the witness prior to his testimony. I don't think that
is an unreasonable request given the fact that this gentlemen is trying to
recall an event that happened 13 years ago.
THE COURT: So is everyone else, Counselor.
MR. WEINGLASS: Pardon?
THE COURT: Everyone else has the same problem. Every
witness that took that stand has the same problem. It's 13 years, 14
years.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: No, no, Your Honor, Dessie Hightower,
for instance, testified in June of '82 and he drew diagrams and he was
shown pictures. And it was all available to him then. And certainly he is
in a much different position than this witness is.
THE COURT: Counselor, if it becomes necessary I will let
him continue in that area. If it becomes necessary. But I think he should
take the stand now and proceed to tell us what he can recollect as of this
time, okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: If I may continue. Secondly, I want to
make this point. The witness informs us that he has revealed what he saw
to several people, including his daughter.
Page 11.
And he has given us the name and the address of several
people. We have not been able to locate these people. We can not confirm
whether or not he has told this to anyone previously. I ask for time so
that we can locate the people and see whether or not his story can be
confirmed.
THE COURT: Fine, you could call those people later on. If
you could find them. In the meantime, let's put him on, let's find out
what he has to tell us.
MR. WEINGLASS: Thirdly --
THE COURT: I have been waiting breathlessly to hear what he has to
say.
MR. WEINGLASS: Well, thirdly, I must say for the record
any testimony given by this witness is utterly unevaluated by the defense.
We have not had an opportunity to check his story. We have not had an
opportunity to talk to confirming witnesses. He names other people who
were there. We've not had an opportunity to show him photographs.
MR. WEINGLASS: I am saying, Your Honor, I am --
Page 12.
THE COURT: Are you saying that he is going to lie when he gets on that
stand?
MR. WEINGLASS: Of course not.
MR. WEINGLASS: I am saying that no lawyer, no lawyer can
tell anything about any witness if he wasn't at the scene himself until he
checks out the story. And we are talking about a death penalty case and
the Court is very anxious to hear from a witness whose story has not been
checked out. This is utterly and grossly unfair to Mr. Jamal. And this is
what happened in '82, and it's happening again. Tony Jackson put witnesses
on the stand who he never talked to. I am not about to repeat that same
mistake a second time. This is why we're here today, because that error
was made in '82. And the Court is forcing me to repeat the same error that
Tony Jackson made under the pressure of the time restraints that this
Court imposed on him.
THE COURT: No, I am not doing that.
MR. WEINGLASS: Well, you are.
THE COURT: I am letting him get on the stand and if it becomes
necessary, you have
Page 13.
to check it out or he says he has to take time or he has
to see certain things, well, I will let him come back later on those
issues after you have shown it to him. But let's hear what he has to
say.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, this is not a Municipal Court proceeding with a
traffic ticket.
THE COURT: I am not saying it is.
MR. WEINGLASS: I can't put a witness on whether he is
truthful or not truthful until I know for myself whether what this witness
is saying is truthful or not. I don't know now. I can't tell. The
gentleman tells a story.
THE COURT: Well, let him tell us the story he told you.
MR. WEINGLASS: You can not --
THE COURT: That's all.
MR. WEINGLASS: You can not proceed that way.
THE COURT: Yes, you can.
MR. WEINGLASS: I am being put in a position of calling a
witness whose story I can not vouch for. I am not permitted to do
that.
THE COURT: You are stalling.
Page 14.
MR. WEINGLASS: I am not permitted to do that.
THE COURT: Okay? if you are going to do that I am going
to sequester him so nobody could talk to him. Nobody could talk to him. No
one. All right.
MR. WEINGLASS: What is the purpose of that?
THE COURT: The purpose is so that he doesn't change his
story. That's the purpose. I want to hear from him. I want to hear his own
interpretation of what happened.
MR. WEINGLASS: 13 years ago, without looking at
photographs. Without having Counsel had the opportunity to determine
--
THE COURT: You called other witnesses without all of that information,
so what is the difference?
MR. WEINGLASS: I hope I have not.
MS. FISK: Sharon Smith as far as I could tell never
testified until yesterday and there was certainly no requests that she
look at photographs before she took the witness stand. He certainly
has.
MR. WEINGLASS: Her testimony was
Page 15.
about a single event: What she saw when she looked out the window.
THE COURT: This is a single event of what he said he saw.
MR. WEINGLASS: It is not that simple.
THE COURT: I am going to allow you to do that, bring your witness
forward.
MR. WEINGLASS: If this Court forces me --
THE COURT: Yes, I am forcing you.
MR. WEINGLASS: -- to put a witness on the stand who I
haven't evaluated, I want the record to reflect that I am being put in
that position.
THE COURT: All right, let the record so show.
MS. FISK: Let this record also show that the Court has
offered defense Counsel an opportunity to meet with the witness and also
an additional preview but said that the witness would not be made
available for further interviews until he then testifies, but that Counsel
would have the opportunity to investigate the names and other information
he obtained from that witness today.
Page 16.
The record should also reflect, Your Honor, that Miss
Wolkenstein had the opportunity to spend I believe four hours with this
witness in Mercer County Prison on August the 3rd. And in addition, Your
Honor made special arrangements this morning to allow Counsel into the
cell room at eight o'clock this morning. Counsel did not enter the
Courtroom today until sometime after ten o'clock this morning. so I could
only assume that they had access to him for another two hours this
morning, in terms of preparing his testimony.
MR. WEINGLASS: That assumption is utterly wrong. We were
with Mr. Jamal for half the time. Counsel is making assumptions and
putting it on the record.
THE COURT: Well, you asked permission to see him this
morning. I made arrangements with the Sheriff so that you could see him.
If you choose to spend your time with somebody else other than the witness
you do so.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We have to consult with him. I also want to correct
the record.
THE COURT: You had to consult with him. That's what Anthony Jackson had
to do at
Page 17.
the initial trial.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: I want to make the additional point that
I was not with Mr. Harmon for four hours. In fact, it was two-and-a-half
hours, and it was interrupted at the very end with two guards banging on
the door insisting that I leave without prior notice. That should be clear
for the record. That interview was interrupted and I was given contrary
instructions earlier that I would be able to be there until four o'clock.
In fact, at three o'clock I had guards knocking on the door insisting they
come in and pull Mr. Harmon out immediately. Let the record be clear.
MS. FISK: Your Honor, the Pennsylvania Department of
Corrections visitor tracking system passed visitors inmate record reflects
that Mr. Williams C. Harmon CK2563 on August 3rd, 1995 received Ms.
Wolkenstein, Rachel Wolkenstein, an attorney, as a visitor at 11:37:47, is
time in, and time out is reflected as 15:32.14.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Mr. Harmon was not produced until 12:30.
The guards were knocking on the door at 3:15. Three o'clock from 3:15
Page 18.
was when I left there, after I was interrupted at the end
by three guards. We are not talking about checkout times, we are talking
about the times that one gets to actually see an inmate.
MS. FISK: And that was, obviously, part of the ongoing
conspiracy being contrived by the police and the D.A.'s Office.
May I be advised as to whether Counsel is choosing to put
Mr. Harmon on today or keep Mr. Harmon further sequestered so they could
further investigate his story?
THE COURT: Let the record show Counsel are conferring with the
Defendant Mumia Abu-Jamal.
MR. WEINGLASS: The choice, Your Honor -- and I object to those
references by this Court.
MR. WEINGLASS: I am Counsel in this case.
Page 19.
THE COURT: I know.
MR. WEINGLASS: And I am making up my mind.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: And I object to this Court sequestering a
witness and preventing us from further interviewing a witness who you are
insisting we call. I want the witness --
THE COURT: I am not insisting you are calling him. I will
call him. The Court will call him for you. Anybody could ask him any
questions they want. I will call the witness for you, okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: But it is our record and it is our claim.
And we have a right to either put on testimony or not put on
testimony.
THE COURT: I'm here seeking justice. The truth. And I
will put him on. If you don't want to put him on I will put him on and
anybody could ask him whatever they want to ask him.
MR. WEINGLASS: If you put him on in this state without
him seeing the photographs, without our confirming his story, you are
putting him on over our objections.
Page 20.
over your objection.
MR. WEINGLASS: And we strenuously object to the Court
putting on this witness. You are compromising a potential witness for the
defense.
THE COURT: No, I am not.
MR. WEINGLASS: Yes, you are.
THE COURT: I just want to know what he remembers he saw, that's
all.
MS. FISK: Is Counsel requesting a recess, Your Honor, so
they could determine whether or not they wish to call Mr. Harmon today or
at a later time after they have investigated this information?
MR. WEINGLASS: The Court made a ruling, the Court is calling the
witness over our objection.
MS. FISK: No, I understood --
MR. WEINGLASS: We are not calling the witness. We are not calling an
unprepared, unconfirmed --
THE COURT: All right, then.
Page 21.
MR. WEINGLASS: -- unevaluated witness.
MS. FISK: Do I understand, then, Your Honor, that Counsel
is accepting the Court's proposal that the witness remain sequestered
until such time as they have fully investigated his story and made a
determination as to whether or not they wish to call him? If that is the
case I have no objection to that. The witness can remain sequestered,
unavailable to the defense; the defense can investigate whatever
information they have. The Commonwealth has absolutely no information. We
don't have a letter, we have nothing other than Miss Wolkenstein's
two-sentence offer of proof. We have no objection waiting until Monday,
Tuesday of next week. Counsel could talk to his daughter, his mother, his
priest, and they can then be prepared to call the witness as their witness
and we could go forward.
THE COURT: Well, I thought they gave us an offer of proof as to what he
is going to say.
MS. FISK: Your Honor, this is a three-point offer of proof signed by
Miss
Page 22.
Wolkenstein. There is nothing under oath by this
individual. And the offer of proof by Miss Wolkenstein is very general in
nature. The Commonwealth also has not had access to the letter which Mr.
Harmon allegedly wrote to his attorney other than we saw Mr. Weinglass
standing at the bar of the Court at some point holding it.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We read it into the record. It has been available
since the beginning (handing).
MS. FISK: Thank you.
MR. WEINGLASS: The District Attorney who was present at
that time said a copy was handed to her at the same time I got my copy.
But they didn't want it.
MS. FISK: And Miss Perkin's statement on --
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: The District Attorney's Office, either.
MS. FISK: That is correct, Miss Perkins' statement to the
person who handed it to them was if you want this to go to the defense,
you give it to them. She advised that she then handed it back to the
individual and
Page 23.
that individual walked away from her and the Commonwealth never had it
in it's possession.
MR. WEINGLASS: It was offered to the Commonwealth and they rejected
it.
THE COURT: They thought it was not proper to give to it
them. Give it to you. That's what they told the individual to do.
MR. WEINGLASS: I object very strenuously to this witness
being sequestered. That is a punitive act by this Court that is
unprecedented in this proceeding. No one else has been sequestered. If
this witness is sequestered you are interfering with the witness, you are
interfering with the defense. You are not giving us an opportunity to show
him the photographs. You are not giving us an opportunity --
THE COURT: Well, if he needs to look at the photographs
later on we will permit that. You will be permitted to bring him in later
on if this is a continuing thing.
MR. WEINGLASS: This is no way to treat a witness who is
coming forward after 13 years. He should be shown the photographs before
he testifies.
Page 24.
I do want to say one other thing, Your Honor. I did spend some time
--
THE COURT: Well, the suggestion has been offered to me:
Suppose you take the witness, the Sheriff takes the witness and takes him
right to the scene. Not to look at any photographs, take him to the scene
right now. He could look at the scene and then come back in here and
testify.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, Your Honor.
MR. WEINGLASS: Of course not.
MR. WEINGLASS: I will give you one small example, and it is a small
example.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. WEINGLASS: This gentleman contends that his car was parked right
near the scene.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: I believe that car might be in a photograph. He also has
to look at the photographs --
Page 25.
perfectly all right. He could say that.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, we have to see the photographs to
confirm it. Don't you see? We are being interfered with here.
THE COURT: No, no, no, no, no.
MR. WEINGLASS: Of course.
THE COURT: No. He could testify that his car was parked there.
MR. WEINGLASS: It is not the way the street looks now. There are
photographs.
THE COURT: You mean if he looks at a photograph and his
car is not there, he is not going to say that his car was there?
MR. WEINGLASS: No, I'm not sure what the photographs show.
THE COURT: Well, that's what I am saying to you. What is
the purpose? Is he going to say my car was there, and then if you show him
a photograph that doesn't show his car there, he is going to say well, my
car must have been over here, or my car wasn't there? Is that what you are
telling me?
MR. WEINGLASS: Why is the Court speculating so negatively?
Page 26.
speculating. And I am giving you the opportunity to take
him down there in the custody of the Sheriff and let him look at the scene
and then come back in. That's better than the photographs.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, this is an utter shell game.
THE COURT: No, it is not a shell game.
MR. WEINGLASS: They have the photographs, they won't give them to
us.
MS. FISK: That is not correct, Your Honor.
MR. WEINGLASS: We can't show them to a witness. The
witness is being sequestered and punished. This is no way to run a
proceeding. I say this respectfully.
THE COURT: Counselor, Counselor, I know you are saying it
respectfully.
MS. FISK: With respect to the photographs, Your Honor,
Counsel was told yesterday, and I believe before yesterday as well, that
when those photographs were found by Your Honor's clerk on Monday
afternoon they were given to Detective Walsh. Based on statement
Page 27.
made by Counsel in the Courtroom on Monday, that they
wanted copies of those photographs, Detective Walsh took those photographs
directly to the police laboratory where they have the facility of making
copies of photographs using the photographs. That process is ongoing. And
are there are multiple photographs, I believe more than 30. Detective
Walsh has been told that those photographs which are currently being
copied will be completed on Monday. If those photographs are taken out of
the chem lab, the process will stop and there will be further delay before
copies of those photographs would be available for the defense. This is in
fact the reason the photographs cannot be in the Courtroom, is because
they were immediately taken to the necessary laboratory to be copied on
Monday night. After they were finally discovered by Your Honor's clerk up
in Room 788 where the defense had been told they were for the two weeks
preceding the date Your Honor's clerk found them.
I would agree with Your Honor's assessment that the
showing of photographs to permit a witness to conform his testimony to
Page 28.
what is in fact the physical scene would not assist us in
reaching whether or not this witnesses' testimony is the truth. I again
have no objection to the Court's suggestion that the witness can remain
sequestered to permit defense Counsel to further investigate his story. If
they wish to do that, I have no problem with that. They can investigate
other witnesses. They have had opportunity on the 3rd and an opportunity
today to speak to him. According to Ms. Weinglass, they have received from
the witness the names of other persons who they claim can support this
witness' testimony. And if this witness remains in a sequestered state and
additional persons are investigated and we come back on Monday, on that
date, or on Tuesday, the photographs will have been duplicated, will be
available to Counsel, and when the witness testifies they can be shown to
the witness on the witness stand. I have no problem with any of those
suggestions.
If Counsel doesn't want to do that, then they have the
right to call that witness or not call that witness.
MR. WEINGLASS: We object strenuously
Page 29.
to this witness being put in a sequestered state. Which
will be perceived as punishment. It isolates him from us.
THE COURT: Not punishment. I just don't want anyone to get to him.
MR. WEINGLASS: But, Your Honor, as lawyers we have to talk to our
witnesses.
THE COURT: I know that but you don't have to talk to him until you get
the photographs.
MR. WEINGLASS: After we get the photographs we could meet with him and
talk to him.
MS. FISK: My understanding was he would be shown the photographs when
he was brought in to testify.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, that is no way to hold a hearing. They
would never put a witness on without showing the witness the documentary
proofs or photographs. We are being asked to do that in death penalty
litigation. This is unheard of.
THE COURT: I will tell you what. You
Page 30.
better start digging up law on this subject, the both of
you. I am not about to continue this matter. You told me you have a
witness you were ready to bring today and all of a sudden you are not
ready.
MR. BURNS: Your Honor, given the surprise nature of this
situation, we do not have the position prepared for the situation in which
the defense was going to call a witness today and now says that they do
not know whether they want to call him or do not know whether they are
going to call him in the future based on whether or not they are going to
be allowed to show him photographs or talk to his relatives. The Court is
correct: We should have some time to find some law on this subject. And I
would suggest that we recess for an hour or so so that we could do exactly
that.
THE COURT: Well, it's eleven o'clock. Do you want to recess until one
o'clock?
MR. BURNS: That's satisfactory, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Recess to one o'clock. Look up the law.
Page 31.
witness to be near anybody else. Sheriff. You keep him isolated
upstairs, please.
MR. WEINGLASS: Are we being denied the opportunity to talk to a
witness?
THE COURT: Yes, because you can't talk to him now because
you said you have to have the photos first. We don't have the photos so
there is no necessity for you to talk to him now.
MR. BURNS: We are talking about two hours, Your Honor, in
order for us to decide what we are going to do in the future. The defense
has had several hours to speak to the witness already.
THE COURT: They had plenty of time to speak to him this morning. So you
keep them separate, Sheriff.
THE SHERIFF: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay, thank you.
MR. WEINGLASS: Over our objection.
THE COURT: Of course, I know it is over your objection.
THE COURT OFFICER: This Court is recessed until one o'clock.
Page 32.
THE COURT: Good afternoon, everyone. I have issued an
order to get the films that are involved in this case.
THE COURT: I count 33 photos. Is that right?
MS. FISK: That was the reference made, I believe, at
trial, Your Honor. That was the number I remember hearing.
THE COURT: All right, we will bring the witness down and
I will give him an opportunity to look at these before anybody talks to
him.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, objection. We object to this process
very strenuously. We do not believe that we have had an opportunity to go
over these photographs with the witness. The witness is unprepared, the
witness is uninvestigated, the witness is unevaluated.
Furthermore, the Court asked us to do research over the
hour and I assume when the Court asks that the Court wants the product of
the research. So I will give the Court the
Page 33.
product of our research. The product of our research is contained
--
THE COURT: Well, just give it to me, let me read it.
MR. WEINGLASS: The Court has already been given this days ago.
THE COURT: Give it to me again and I will read it again, Counselor.
MR. WEINGLASS: We will give it to the Court again (handing). The case
is --
MS. FISK: No, sir. I'm sorry, on which issue, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Well, he said this issue.
MR. BURNS: For the enlightenment of Counsel for the Commonwealth, which
case?
THE COURT: The Government of the Virgin Islands versus Paul Mills.
MR. WEINGLASS: Third Circuit Court of Appeals. The same Federal Circuit
that governs this Court.
MS. FISK: It doesn't govern this Court.
MR. WEINGLASS: Yes, believe it or
Page 34.
not, the Federal Circuit Court of appeals do govern this Court.
THE COURT: Not as far as State law is concerned.
MR. BURNS: I can refer to the relevant parts or I could
simply hand them to you, if you wish. They have to do with the Court's
authority to deny a continuance in order for defense Counsel to interview
a witness.
THE COURT: Okay. I will look at it. Do you want to
underline it or anything or pinpoint whatever you want me to review.
MR. BURNS: I will hand it up, if that is the Court's preference.
THE COURT: All right, I will take a short recess while I look them
over.
THE COURT OFFICER: This Court will take a short recess until the call
of the Crier.
THE COURT: The defense's case, The Government of the
Virgin Islands versus Mills is not on point with the issue that we have
here. There the judge didn't allow a witness to
Page 35.
testify. It's not that I am not allowing a witness to
testify, I'm encouraging him to testify. He has indicated to the Court
that he has knowledge about this case and the Court wishes to hear what he
has to say about it.
The cases that the Commonwealth had given me to read talk
about whether or not the Court has a right not to allow a continuance, and
that is on point here.
Will you give this back.
MR. WEINGLASS: I just wanted to put on the record the
fact that during this 15 or 20 minute recess, at the start of it I asked
the Court personnel to request of the Court that we be permitted to
examine the 33 photographs which we've never seen and which were marked as
Court Exhibits in the trial below, and the Court sent word back that
Counsel was denied the right to look at the photographs.
THE COURT: Well. I want to be here when you are looking at them, if you
don't mind.
MR. WEINGLASS: Pardon?
THE COURT: I said I want to be here when you look at them, if you don't
mind.
MR. WEINGLASS: Yes. May we look at
Page 36.
them now? I don't know why the Court insists on it's presence if we
look at them.
MR. WEINGLASS: I take it as an affront.
THE COURT: Well, take it any way you want. I want to be here while you
are looking at them, okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: It is, I think, the question of the Court's bias.
THE COURT: I am, sure, real biased. That's why I want to be here.
MR. WEINGLASS: I take it as a personal affront.
THE COURT: (Handing).
MR. WEINGLASS: Having seen the photographs of the crime
scene and just the photographs of the crime scene, I'm asking the Court
that I be granted the opportunity to review those photographs with the
witness for the purpose of refreshing the witness' recollection and
preparing him for testimony.
Page 37.
THE COURT: I am going to give him all the time in the
world he needs when he comes down here to review these photos before
anyone asks him any questions, any questions at all. If he needs to refer
to these photographs to help him out in any way, he has a perfect right to
do that.
MR. WEINGLASS: Well, the Court is compelling this witness
to testify without reviewing the photographs or reviewing them with
Counsel.
THE COURT: No, he will review them.
MR. WEINGLASS: Then I protest this witness being brought
here to this Courtroom to testify under these circumstances.
THE COURT: Counsel, if you don't want to call him that's
fine, I will call him as my witness and anybody could cross-examine him.
He says he knows something about this case. I want to know what he knows
about the case. May I have my photos back, please.
MR. WEINGLASS: (Handing).
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. WEINGLASS: I did want to state one other thing which I omitted --
I'm sorry --
Page 38.
this morning. The witness informed me that he arrived
here last night at approximately 9:00 p.m. He was told that there were no
cells available. And he was given a wooden bench to sleep on. He indicated
to me that he had difficulty sleeping or he couldn't sleep. And that he,
he has some feeling today of sleep deprivation and is tired. And I wanted
to make that statement on the record as well.
THE COURT: The Court will take that under consideration when he
testifies.
THE COURT: All right, I count 33. Is that correct? Okay.
All right, bring the witness down.
MR. WEINGLASS: The record should indicate that the Court
counted the photographs twice after it was handed back by defense
Counsel.
THE COURT: Right, I wanted to make sure there wasn't any
mistake because when I hand them to him I want to tell him he has 33
photographs to look at. I just wanted to make sure I was correct, I didn't
want to mislead the witness.
Page 39.
Would you bring him down, please.
Bring him down.
THE COURT: Mr. Harmon, before anyone asks you any
questions: I am going to hand you 33 photos that were taken at the scene
to help you recollect what you may remember of this happening. And during
the course of any cross-examination, or by anyone, if you need to refer to
them, feel free to do so, okay. But look at them now.
THE COURT: Mr. Harmon, if you feel any of them are
important just put them aside for your benefit. If you think any of them
are important to you, just put it aside for yourself. But go through all
of them.
THE COURT: Hold onto them. How many have you put aside that you
Page 40.
think will help you in this case? Count them.
THE WITNESS: 16.
THE COURT: 16. All right, will you put them over on the
side there for you. And will you take a second look at those others to
make sure, you might decide you want to look at one of those. Take a
second look.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: All right, let me have those other ones here.
THE COURT: Look, I will keep them right here. Right here.
Those that you need are right over there (indicating). Now, if perchance
you have to go to these again, you can. Understand?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: Your Honor, let the record show that the
witness took 14 minutes to look at the photographs.
Page 41.
second time.
MR. WEINGLASS: Right.
THE COURT: And I had him look at all of them a second time. So that is
seven minutes for each.
MR. WEINGLASS: No, it wasn't broken down that way exactly.
THE COURT: Yes, he looked through all of them including
the ones he had initially selected. I am watching him, Counselor.
MR. WEINGLASS: But we are watching the clock also.
THE COURT: You watched the clock, I'm watching the
witness. He looked through the photos, all 33 photos, two times, okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: Right. Also at this point, these are
photos that were introduced into evidence. I would like to ask if the
District Attorney's Office has in it's possession other photographs that
were not produced into evidence at the trial below?
THE COURT: Well, I don't know about that, Counselor. This
is not the time for any discovery. You said you wanted to look at those
photos and I have gotten them for you.
Page 42.
MR. WEINGLASS: Those are the only available, but now I
would like to ask if the District Attorney has other photographs. The
District Attorney's staff is here, they could find those photographs. And
it would assist this witness.
THE COURT: Well, if he needs any further photos he'll let us know.
MR. WEINGLASS: Well, could we have a representation on the record
whether they have other photographs?
THE COURT: Counselor, I had denied discovery in this
matter. I have bent over backward for you. I've gotten the photos that
were introduced as evidence in the case. We are not here to retry that
case at this time.
MR. WEINGLASS: But we are here to attempt to assist the
witness to look at all the photographs of the scene of 13 years ago. And
the District Attorney's Office might have other photographs.
THE COURT: If he wants to visit the scene, we'll take
him, I will have the Sheriffs take him down to 13th and Locust and he
could look at the scene.
Page 43.
MR. WEINGLASS: This is 13 years later, there are photographs of
1981.
THE COURT: It is not my fault that it's 13 years later, Counselor. I
can't help that.
MR. WEINGLASS: But there are photographs from 1981 which the District
Attorney's Office has --
THE COURT: There are photographs that you people took and you people
don't even know where they are.
MR. WEINGLASS: I represented I don't have them.
THE COURT: You don't have them. Well, I don't have them either.
MR. WEINGLASS: But they do.
MR. WEINGLASS: Because they are sitting quietly and not responding.
THE COURT: I don't know that they have to respond to you.
MS. FISK: We are sitting quietly, Your Honor, because the
Court has ruled on multiple occasions over the past few weeks with regard
to the discovery requests. We sit
Page 44.
quietly after the Judge gives a ruling. We don't keep fighting.
MR. WEINGLASS: I take that as an admission that they have
photographs.
MS. FISK: Take it however you want, Counselor. I am responding to the
Judge's ruling.
MR. WEINGLASS: It is grossly unfair to the witness who asked for
photographs.
THE COURT: Let's see if he needs anymore. He selected 16
of them. That ought to be enough to help him to tell us what happened. If
he could remember.
MR. WEINGLASS: There are more and the witness asked me for
photographs.
THE COURT: Counselor, do you want to ask him any questions? Let's
proceed.
MR. WEINGLASS: Under the terms already stated.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: I will question the witness.
MS. FISK: I don't believe the witness has been sworn.
THE COURT: I thought he was sworn.
Page 45.
MR. WEINGLASS: He was.
MS. FISK: My fault.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT OFFICER: Yes, sir, he's been sworn.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Mr. Harmon, when did we first meet?
A. This morning.
Q. And when did you arrive here in Philadelphia?
A. Last night.
Q. And where do you ordinarily reside?
A. Ahh, while I'm incarcerated?
THE WITNESS: Oh, Mercer County, Pennsylvania.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Are you in custody now?
A. Yes.
Q. And you are serving a prison term?
A. Yes.
Q. And you came here last night?
A. Yes.
Q. By what means?
Page 46.
A. Ahh, Sheriffs.
Q. And do you recall approximately when you arrived last night?
A. Around 8:30.
Q. And did you, were you given a bed and a cell?
A. No, I wasn't.
Q. You were not?
A. No.
Q. Did you sleep last night?
A. On the floor.
Q. On the floor?
A. (Witness nodded head affirmatively.)
Q. Do you feel that you've had enough rest from last night?
A. No.
MR. WEINGLASS: Your Honor, I request that the witness be
given an opportunity to have a night's sleep and testify when he's
rested.
THE WITNESS: About an hour.
THE COURT: An hour, okay.
MR. WEINGLASS: May the witness be given an opportunity of
rest so that he could testify about an event 13 years ago in a
Page 47.
THE COURT: I don't think he needs any further continuance.
A. I seen Mumia standing out front the restaurant.
Q. And what did you do after you saw Mumia standing in front of the
restaurant?
A. I got up my seat, out of my seat, excused myself. And
told her, I said there go Mumia, I'm going to go out there and holler at
him.
Q. Did you go out and meet with Mumia?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him?
A. Ahh, for about two or three minutes, maybe.
Q. Now, in that conversation, did he indicate to you why he was
there?
A. No, he didn't. He said he was, I asked him what he was
doing down here, because it was funny seeing him down here, you know. Big,
you know, personality like that, you know, down 13th Street. So he says,
he says he's coming down here to meet his friend, a friend of his brother
or something. So I said okay.
Q. Did he say whether it was his brother or a friend?
A. A friend, yeah, I think he said a friend.
Q. Do you recall if you indicated to us this morning that
he said that he was going to meet his brother?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Well, do you know whether he said he was going to meet his brother
or not?
A. Uhh, I really I -- I can't recall. But... as I'm thinking, I think
he said his brother.
Q. Now, how did you arrive to the restaurant that night, if you could
recall?
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William Harmon
A. In my car.
Q. And what kind of a car was it?
A. I got a '64 -- well, I had a '64 Electra 225, four-door, dark
blue.
Q. Did you park it --
MS. FISK: I'm sorry, I missed the last part of that answer. '64 Electra
225?
THE WITNESS: 225, four-door.
MS. FISK: Yes.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. And blue?
A. Dark blue.
Q. Dark blue. And was the car with you that night?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Did you park it that night?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Where did you park it?
A. I parked it in between the restaurant and... and the,
the club next to the restaurant, I think it was Johnny Cadillac or --
Q. Could it be called Whispers?
A. It's in between Whispers and the restaurant.
Q. Between Whispers and the restaurant?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. And again, as you stand on the intersection of Locust
and 13th looking north, would it be on the left-hand side of the street or
the right-hand side?
A. On the left-hand side.
Q. On the left-hand side. So your car would be parked on
the left-hand side facing north on 13th Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Between Whispers and the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, while you were talking to Mr. Jamal, did you hear anything
unusual?
A. Well, not for that, ahh, area was it unusual, but I did hear a loud
talking.
Q. Loud talking?
A. Yeah, loud voices.
Q. Did it sound like an argument?
A. Yes.
Q. It sounded like an argument?
A. Yes.
Q. And from which direction did that come?
A. Ahh, it was coming from Locust Street, at 13th.
Q. Near the intersection?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. And when you heard that loud argument, what if anything did you see
Mr. Jamal do?
A. He, ahh, he immediately stopped talking to me and
started walking towards the parking lot. He walked across the street,
walked towards the parking lot.
Q. Did he walk through the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. So he crossed 13th?
A. Yes.
Q. And walked through the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you do at that time?
A. I followed him, you know, to a few steps behind him.
Q. Did you cross 13th?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you walk through the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. And did anything happen while you saw him walking through the
parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. What happened?
A. I heard a shot. And --
Q. Was that one shot?
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William Harmon
A. One shot.
Q. Was it a gunshot?
A. Yes. I think it was a gunshot, you know.
Q. And at that time where was Mr. Jamal?
A. He was still in the parking lot, on the way across the street.
Q. Ah-huh. And after you heard that shot, what did you see Mr. Jamal
do?
A. Continued to walk across the street. I mean through
the lot, through the lot, across 13th -- across Locust Street.
Q. Across Locust?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he walk to the other side of Locust Street?
A. Yes.
Q. The south side?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you walk to the south side of Locust Street?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Where did you position yourself?
A. I stopped in, in little -- I was in the parking lot
but it's two entrances to the parking lot, one that comes out on 13th
Street and one goes
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William Harmon
in on Locust. And I was in between the two entrances.
Q. Right. And, Mr. Harmon, why didn't you go further on?
A. Because I seen -- I seen -- I seen -- I heard a shot.
I looked over at the, the... at the place where I heard the shot at. And I
seen the officer fall. I seen Mumia walking towards the officer. Then I
heard another shot. And then I seen Mumia fall. So I stopped right
there.
Q. Now, at the time you heard the first shot --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- where was Mr. Jamal?
A. He hadn't gotten across -- he hadn't got out of the lot yet.
Q. Right, and at the time you heard the second shot where was Mr.
Jamal?
A. He was almost across the Street, on the south side.
Q. And when you heard the second shot what did you see happen to Mr.
Jamal?
A. I seen him fall.
Q. Now, prior to hearing the second shot, did you see where the officer
was?
A. He was laying against the wall with a gun,
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William Harmon
with his gun out.
Q. He was laying?
A. With his back against the wall.
Q. Was he down on the pavement?
A. Yes.
Q. And his gun was out?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, after -- and his gun was out when you saw Mr. Jamal walk
towards him?
A. Yes.
Q. After you heard that first shot that you told us about, did you see
anyone leave the area?
A. I seen somebody leave down 12th Street -- down Locust
Street running towards 12th Street. I don't know who it was. And...
Q. Right, was this person on the south side of the street?
A. The person was next, talking to the cop, I believe.
Q. And you saw him run on the south side?
A. Yes.
Q. Of the street?
A. After the shot.
Q. Towards 12th Street?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. That would be running east?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know how far Mr. Jamal was from the police officer at the
time you heard the second shot?
A. It may be about 10 feet.
Q. Pardon?
A. About 10 feet.
Q. Okay. But you were back in the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see Mr. Jamal front or back as he approached the
officer?
A. I seen his back.
Q. His back?
A. (Witness nodded head affirmatively.)
Q. And did you see the officer's front or back as Mr. Jamal was
approaching?
A. Well, I couldn't see the officer because Mr. Jamal was in front of
him.
Q. Right. But just prior to your losing vision of the officer?
A. Yeah.
Q. You say you saw the officer down on the pavement?
A. Yes.
Q. The sidewalk?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. With his back against the wall?
A. Yes.
Q. And his gun was out?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you heard that second shot once again what did you see Mr.
Jamal do?
A. Fall.
Q. Fall. Did you see any movement of his hands?
A. No. He grabbed his hands and put them to his chest
(indicating) like, you know, like any ordinary person would do when
they've been hit.
Q. And then he fell?
A. He fell.
Q. Having seen the photographs now, do they help refresh your
recollection?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ask me this morning if you could look at photographs?
A. No.
Q. You don't recall saying that to me?
A. Could I look at the photographs?
Q. Of the scene.
A. Oh, yes, I did, yes, I did.
Q. Now, let me ask you a few questions about Mr.
Page 67.
Jamal's brother Billy.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know Billy in December of 1981?
A. Ahh, yeah, I knew him. From seeing -- he had a
vending, he had a vending station I think. At 16th Street. And I used,
when I got off the El I used to see him.
Q. Okay.
A. But I didn't know him personally.
Q. You didn't know him personally?
A. No.
Q. Did you see him that night?
A. I don't think I did.
Q. Do you know the young woman named Cynthia White?
A. Do I know her?
Q. Did you know her then?
A. Yes.
Q. And how did you know her?
A. Well, my woman was a prostitute.
Q. She was a prostitute.
A. And that's the kind of work that she was in.
Q. Did you see her that night?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. After you heard the second shot, did you run
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William Harmon
to the scene of the shooting or what did you do?
A. After I heard the second shot and I seen Mumia fall, a
car came up beside him. And a guy got out of the car and pointed a gun at
the cop and shot again, got in the car, backed the car up to 13th Street,
and went down 13th Street the wrong way. They went, it went south on
13th.
Q. How much time elapsed between the time you saw Mr.
Jamal get shot as you described and that car arriving?
A. About 20 seconds.
Q. And did that car pull in behind the police car?
A. Yes.
MS. FISK: Objection, Your Honor. There has been no testimony about a
police car.
MR. WEINGLASS: I will withdraw the question.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. That night as you were in the parking lot looking south towards
Locust Street --
A. Yes.
Q. -- did you see cars parked on the south side of Locust Street?
A. Ahh, yes. Ahh, one car must have been, ahh,
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William Harmon
just in front of the cop car.
Q. Did you see a cop car?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And you saw another car in front of the cop car?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Did you see any cars behind the cop car?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. When this car that you have described came, where did it stop?
A. In back of the cop car.
Q. And did you see anyone get out of that car?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. The passenger side or the driver's side?
A. The passenger side.
Q. And what did you see that person do?
A. Get out the car, pull out a -- well, he must have had
it out but I seen him looking at, you know, get out the car and point the
gun down to the cop and shoot one time. Get in the car, the car backed up
across 13th Street and went down 13th Street (indicating), the one
way.
Q. Did you see what effect if any that shot had on the police
officer?
A. Well, when I seen, after he was shot, he was
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William Harmon
shot, he had to be shot in the head or face or somewhere because his
face was bleeding.
Q. His face was bleeding?
A. Yes.
Q. After you saw that, what did you do, Mr. Harmon?
A. I immediately backed up, went in the restaurant, got
Tina, and told her let's get out of here. She said what's wrong. I said
ahh, I don't know, but I'd like to get out of here. So when she got in the
car, we drove down, we drove 13th and Walnut and made a left down Walnut.
And I was telling her what happened. I said somebody got shot.
MS. FISK: Objection to what he said to her at the time, Your Honor.
MR. WEINGLASS: Well, I think the witness is permitted to testify as to
his own statement.
THE WITNESS: The cop got shot and Mumia got shot and I
don't want to be around here. Because I don't want to be involved, you
know.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. When you went to your car after you got Tina -- did you leave the
restaurant immediately?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. And when you got back to your car did you see police in the
area?
A. As I was starting the car up to leave, they were, I seen them
coming.
Q. You saw them coming down 13th?
A. Yes.
Q. But when you got in the car did you see police cars on Locust?
A. Ahh, no. Maybe it was one... coming from Broad. They
got there so fast, I don't know why the guy in the car went down 13th
Street and didn't get, get stopped. Because the cops was right there on
the button.
Q. Okay. Now, I'm sorry to get into this, Mr. Harmon.
Could you indicate to the Court what your work was, or employment at that
time?
A. I was a pimp.
Q. And was Tina someone who was working with you at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. And was that the reason why you fled the scene?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that the reason why you didn't come
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William Harmon
forward?
A. No.
Q. Why didn't you come forward?
A. I had a mother and, ahh, I spoke to her about it. And
she said Bippy, you're downtown every night, you see everything going
around, don't get involved. Don't get involved, you'll get yourself in
trouble.
Q. Did you contact anyone in the Police Department?
A. No.
Q. Or in the District Attorney's Office?
A. No.
Q. Did you contact anyone on the defense side?
A. Nope.
Q. You said you told your mother about this?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell anyone else?
A. Umm... I don't think I did. Maybe... in conversation. You know, like
it might have came up.
Q. How about Krystal?
A. My daughter.
Q. Yeah?
A. Well, I tell her everything. That's my baby. I told her.
Q. Right. Does she live in the State of, in the
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William Harmon
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania?
A. No, she doesn't.
Q. She lives out of State now?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know where Tina Santiago lives now?
A. No, I don't.
Q. With respect to the person who you saw shoot the
police officer, the person who came out of the car, did you see that
person's face?
A. No, I just seen the back of him.
Q. Did you notice anything with respect to his hair?
A. Yes, it was long and it hung on his shoulders (indicating).
Q. Right?
A. Straight.
Q. It was straight?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know the size of that individual?
A. No, umm, about -- I guess -- well, I wasn't paying
attention to what he weighed or how big he was, I was trying to take
cover.
Q. Oh. Did you know an individual at that time who went by the name of
Sweet Sam?
A. The name sound familiar.
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William Harmon
Q. Did you know an individual at that time by the name of Detroit?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you know, who is Detroit?
A. Detroit was another pimp.
Q. Was he working in that area at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. And could you describe his height?
A. Ahh, Detroit, he must have been about five-seven, 130, 140.
Q. And how did he wear his hair, do you remember?
A. Ahh, straight. Ahh, like a Johnny Mathis style.
Q. Pardon?
A. You know, how Johnny Mathis wear his hair.
Q. Yeah?
A. Yeah, straight.
Q. You are indicating with your hands that it hangs down?
A. Well, shoulder length.
Q. Shoulder length?
A. Yes.
Q. Straight down to the shoulder?
A. Yes.
Q. You saw Mr. Detroit that night before this
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William Harmon
happened?
A. Ahh... I'm not sure if I seen him before then. I knew
I seen him after. After, because we, we were in the restaurant talking.
It's a meeting place for all the gang, you know.
Q. That was later?
A. Yeah.
Q. Much later. Now, you know that car that pulled up, had you seen that
car around before?
A. Which car?
Q. The car that pulled up with the shooter in it.
A. I never seen the car.
(Pause.)
Q. Did you see Mr. Jamal shoot the officer that night?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Did you see Mr. Jamal get shot?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And it's your testimony Mr. Jamal was shot before the officer was
shot in the face?
A. Yes.
Q. And he was shot after the officer was on the pavement?
A. Yes.
Q. And the officer had his gun out?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. You indicated in your statement that after Mister,
after you saw Mumia fall back, he put his hands to his chest and he landed
against the car. Did you see him land against the car?
A. Yes. He fell against the car and then he fell on the ground.
MR. WEINGLASS: If I could have...
(Discussion was held off the record at
this time among
defense Counsel.)
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Did you see Mr. Jamal with a gun that night at any time?
A. No.
MR. WEINGLASS: I have no further questions.
MS. FISK: May I inquire, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, sure.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. Let me make sure I understand this, Mr. Harmon. You were at a
restaurant with Tina?
A. Yes.
Q. And then at some point you see outside the door of the
restaurant the man you know as Mumia Abu-Jamal?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. And you said you knew him from Sonny Hopson?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is Sonny Hopson?
A. He is a disk jockey on WHAT.
Q. And how did you know Sonny Hopson?
A. I used to work for Sonny. I used to drive the funny
car. They used to have a car that goes around the neighborhood and he used
to give records away with pictures. And he used to --
Q. When had you done that, sir?
A. This was in the late seventies.
Q. During what period of time in the late seventies did you drive that
funny car for Sonny Hopson?
A. Ahh... few... '76, '75.
Q. And how in the course of that employment did you have an opportunity
to meet Mr. Jamal?
A. Well, like I said, you know, I'm, I'm an all-around
man, I used to go around the City, you know, with the car. And I met a lot
of people. And, ahh, I think I went to the station one day and met, ahh,
Mr. Jamal.
Q. When was that?
A. I, I didn't know exactly the date.
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Q. Well, was that in the period of '75-'76 when you were driving the
funny car?
A. No, this was like maybe '78, '79.
Q. Did you have any other opportunity to meet or see Mr. Jamal between
then and December 9th, 1981?
A. Ahh, I think I've seen him in the club a couple times.
Q. Which club?
A. Whispers, Kim Graves. Ahh... ahh... all the local clubs that...
Q. Now, sir, when you would see him in the club, would you speak to
him?
A. Yes, I would.
Q. I take it you knew Mr. Jamal by name?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he know you by name?
A. Not William Harmon, no.
Q. What name did he know you by?
A. Bippy.
Q. And everybody knew you as Bippy, right?
A. Everybody.
Q. And he certainly knew your name was Bippy?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, when you saw Mr. Jamal outside the restaurant, you told us that
you decided to go out to
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holler at him?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you going to holler at him about?
A. Well, that's an expression we use. Went out to speak to him.
Q. Did you have something particular that you needed to speak to him
about?
A. Yes, I wanted to, ahh, tell him that Tina loved the
way he talked on the tel -- on the radio, and, you know, he had a sound in
his voice and the women loved it. You know, the quiet storm type
voice.
Good morning, this is Mumia, Mumia Abu-Jamal.
You know, women liked that.
Q. So when you went out to speak to him I take it you took Tina with
you so she could meet him?
A. Yes.
Q. All right, so Tina went outside the restaurant?
A. No, well...
Q. Oh?
A. Right there in the restaurant, it's, the tables and
the stools were right there and she didn't even have to get off the stool,
you know. Like I
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went out there to tell him I wanted him to meet Tina. And that's when
all the commotion started.
Q. Well, you told us that you were out there and talking
to him for about two to three minutes; is that right?
A. Yes. I wasn't talking to him about Tina. I was talking
to him about me and him, you know, like I like, I liked -- my mother even
liked his voice.
Q. Well, you just told us that you were going out to tell him that Tina
liked his voice?
A. Yes, I was going out there to tell him but I got cross -- I got
sidetracked.
Q. You talked about something different instead, by the
time you got from your stool to the front of the restaurant you forgot
what you were going to go out there for and talked to him about something
different?
A. Yeah, because I hadn't seen him in such a long time.
Q. How long had it been?
A. I don't know. And you, you don't see him that often in
the street, so when you do see him it's a big thing, you know.
Q. But you just told us that you would often see him down at the clubs
there, Whispers and the other
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clubs?
A. I seen him all the time.
Q. Right.
A. I'm saying but the public doesn't see him like that. And Tina wasn't
in the public, she was working.
Q. Did you tell us a moment ago that you would run into him
frequently?
A. Yes.
Q. At the various clubs in the vicinity of 13th and Locust Street?
A. Yes.
Q. And those clubs included Whispers?
A. Yeah.
Q. What other clubs down there?
A. The Serendipity. Ahh... on 20th and Sansom, Kim Graves. You know. In
that area.
Q. Center City?
A. Yes.
Q. So it wasn't at all unusual to see him downtown
because he would often be in those clubs and you knew that, right?
A. Not often. He wasn't there every night.
Q. Right?
A. Like I was. Like when you did see him it was,
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you know, like you were glad to see him, you know, because he was out.
He didn't come out that much.
Q. And it wasn't unusual to see him down there?
A. Yes, it was an unusual event. For most people.
Q. For you, Mr. Harmon?
A. Oh.
Q. I'm asking about for you.
A. Okay.
Q. Not for anybody else.
A. Yes.
Q. Was it unusual for you to see him down there?
A. Yes.
Q. It was?
A. Yes.
Q. Even though you saw him at these clubs?
A. On several times. But in the course of weeks, months.
I mean it wasn't everyday I saw him. So if I didn't see him for like three
weeks, that would have been a, a, a, you know, an event.
Q. So you went outside and you forgot to talk to him
about Tina and you started talking to him about something else, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And while the two of you were out there before
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there was any shooting, who else was out there on the street?
A. I can't recall who was out there on the street.
Q. Do you know?
A. Where we were at. Where we were standing at it was just him and
I.
Q. Well, did you see anybody else out there where you were or within
your field of vision?
A. I didn't see nobody until I heard somebody's voices.
Q. And that's the argument that you told us you heard, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, did you look when you heard the argument?
A. Yeah, I looked.
Q. And where was the argument coming from?
A. The southeast corner of 13th and Locust.
Q. And when you looked there, did you see any persons there?
A. I seen a guy talking to a, looked like he was talking to the
cop.
Q. Did you recognize the cop?
A. Ahh, not right then.
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Q. Did you recognize the guy?
A. No, I didn't know him at all. Because that's a, you
know, like it's pretty far distance just to be looking and to pick out
somebody. I couldn't, you know... really. Really couldn't tell you who he
was if he's standing in back of the room because that's about as far as it
was.
Q. What were they arguing about?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did you see any anything other than those two persons arguing on the
southeast corner?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Did you see any vehicles at that point when you heard the
argument?
A. I seen a cop car and a, I seen a Volkswagen.
Q. Volkswagen?
A. Yes.
Q. How is it you remember that you saw a Volkswagen?
A. Because obviously the cop was talking to whoever was
driving the Volkswagen. I thought it was a cab maybe at first. But a cab
was on the corner. I don't know which, which direction. It was a cop car,
a cab, then a Volkswagen.
Q. Let me just get it straight. You saw a cop
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car. Was the cop car closest to the intersection of 13th and
Locust?
A. Yes.
Q. And it had, if the cop car had been proceeding...
A. Had a cab stopped.
Q. So just so I understand the order of the cars: You had
a cop car and then was the cab in front of the cop car or behind the cop
car?
A. In front of it.
Q. The cab is in front of the cop car and then in front of the cab is
the Volkswagen?
A. Yes.
Q. And so you had three cars. Are they all parked or all in the driving
lane?
A. They're all on the right-hand side going north --
going east down Locust. But that would be in the driving lane.
Q. Oh. And as I understand it, the cop car was the car that was closest
to the intersection?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the cab was further east?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Volkswagen was further east of that?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. Now, do you know whether the person that was talking
to the cop was the driver of the cab or the driver of the Volkswagen, if
you know?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Okay. Well, did you see any other driver?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Did you see anyone in any of those cars when you looked over and saw
these two people arguing?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Now, you told us that after you heard that arguing for
a little bit of time, that's when Mr. Jamal stopped talking to you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he say something to you before he left where you were
standing?
A. Ahh, well, he was a little rude: He just walked away from me. You
know. And, ahh...
Q. Incidentally, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt
you. When you went out to him that night, when you went out to the front
of the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you call him by name?
A. Yes.
Q. And did he call you by name?
A. No.
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William Harmon
Q. What did he say to you?
A. Hey, man, what's up.
Q. And what did the two of you talk about in the two to three minutes
before he walked away?
A. Well, like I said, I told him about, you know, the
women that I was involved with loved to hear him talk, you know, and my
mother even liked to hear him talk. And, ahh, just conversation like
what's up, where you going, where you been, you know. Like I told him, I
said I was taking the lady's breakfast.
Q. So you told him what you were up to?
A. Yeah.
Q. And, now, you said that after about two to three minutes --
A. Yes.
Q. -- is when Mr. Jamal started walking towards the sound of the
argument?
A. Yes.
Q. And that caused him to walk diagonally through the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. Which had been directly across the street from where the two of you
were standing?
A. Yes.
Q. And you followed behind him?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. Now, as I understand your testimony, at some point while Mr. Jamal
was still in the parking lot --
A. Yes.
Q. -- you heard the shot? Or was Mr. Jamal in the street when you heard
the first shot?
A. The first shot, he was in the... the parking lot.
Q. He was in the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you told us that at the time of the first shot
you were in the parking lot halfway between the two entrances; is that
right?
A. It's a big parking lot.
Q. Yes, sir.
A. So by him being in the parking lot going through the
entrance that comes on Locust Street, and me going in on the entrance in
13th street, it would have still made us both be in the parking lot at the
same time.
Q. Yes. Now, I take it that since you are now following Mr. Jamal
towards the sound of the argument --
A. Yes.
Q. -- you're watching where you're going?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. And you are, obviously, getting closer to the area --
A. Yes.
Q. -- you are walking towards the entire time?
A. Yes.
Q. As you were walking closer, do I understand, though,
that you still were unable to see who it was that the officer was arguing
with?
A. Yes.
Q. You never were able to see who that was or you would never recognize
who that was, is that it?
A. Ahh, I couldn't recognize who shot the cop because
when I got that close, I heard the shot and then that unidentified person
ran down Locust Street. And that's when the cop was knocked back against
the wall.
Q. Now, when that happened -- just so I understand --
after that unidentified person ran down on Locust Street, was the only
person, so I am clear, the only single person who was on that sidewalk on
the south side of Locust Street was now the cop; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. There was no one else there?
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A. Maybe on the north side of 13th Street.
Q. Right. No, I am talking about that south side. The north side of
--
A. No, ahh, the north side of Locust Street.
Q. Right?
A. No, the south side of Locust Street. The southwest side.
Q. The southwest corner?
A. Yes, southwest corner.
Q. Who was there?
A. Might have been somebody there.
Q. Oh?
A. But nobody was there on the southeast corner but the cop.
Q. And the cop, as soon as this unidentified person that he had been
arguing with ran away?
A. Yeah.
Q. The cop you are certain fell down and up against the building?
A. Yes.
Q. And was he in a seated position sort of or was he on
his stomach or was he on his side? What was his relative position?
A. He had his back against the wall, his gun out, like this
(indicating).
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William Harmon
Q. And do I take it that his --
A. He was holding.
Q. He was sitting?
A. He was holding something. I don't know if it was his
chest or his stomach or what, but he was, he had the gun out like this
(indicating).
Q. But so I want to understand, though, his back was in
against the wall and he was in a seated position?
A. Yes.
Q. And his feet were in front of him?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you told us that you were about halfway between the two
entrances of the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Jamal was some distance in front of you?
A. He was in the street by now.
Q. Oh, so he was in the street?
A. Yes.
Q. So he was in the street when you heard the gunshot?
A. No, no, no, no, after he heard the gunshot he ran towards the
officer.
Q. Right.
A. The officer had the gun out looking up at him.
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And, ahh, the next sound I heard was another shot. And I seen Jamal
fall.
Q. Mr. Harmon, you were so far away that you were unable
to see who this unidentified person was who ran down Locust Street,
right?
A. Well, yes.
Q. But you were close enough that you were able to see
that the cop was looking at Mr. Jamal before he fired his gun; is that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. So the cop was that much closer to you than this man who had shot
the cop?
A. Yes.
Q. I see. How much distance was there between the man who shot the cop
and the cop?
A. Well --
MR. WEINGLASS: At what point in time? Objection. I want the question
clarified.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. When you saw the two men arguing?
A. Yes.
Q. That is the cop and this other man?
A. Yes.
Q. Were they standing facing each other?
A. Ahh, yes. Arm's length.
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Q. Within touching distance?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. When you heard the shot fired were they still in that same position
to each other?
A. Ahh, yes.
Q. And what you are telling us is that the cop, his
position to you and his distance to you allowed you to see where his eyes
were looking, but the guy who shot the cop who was arm's length from the
cop was too far away from you to allow you to see his face, right?
A. Well, first of all, when I seen the gun I didn't look
at nothing. That's number one. See. So when I heard the shot, I
immediately didn't see nothing. He went one way, the cop fell down, and I
stopped in my tracks. And --
Q. Did you close your eyes?
A. No, I didn't close my eyes.
Q. You kept looking, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you're telling us things that you saw happen after that
shot, right?
A. Yeah, but I close -- I, I, uhh, I went to the point
where, ahh, I watched Mumia fall. After I heard that second shot, and I
looked at him, I said
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oh, let me get out of here. And I backed up. Went back
through the parking lot to the restaurant. Before then another car sped
right beside him and shot again.
Q. We are going to get to that in a second.
A. All right.
Q. Now, that was, you're getting a little bit ahead of me
but that's all right. The guy who ran away after you heard the first
shot?
A. Yes.
Q. You said that he went south on Locust Street? I'm sorry, he went
east on Locust Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did he go when he went east on Locust Street?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Well, did you see him get to 12th Street?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Did you see if he went into a building?
A. No, he might have got in another car down there.
Q. Well, did you see him get into a car?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. You didn't watch where he ran?
A. No, I didn't.
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William Harmon
Q. Well, this was the guy with the gun, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And this was the thing that made you afraid because
there's somebody down there shooting and you're real close, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And in fact you told us that when you heard the shot what you
watched was the gun, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So when the guy started running did you see where the gun was
going?
A. Yeah, the gun went east on Locust Street.
Q. And how far did you watch him as he went east on Locust Street?
A. Until he went out of sight.
Q. And how far was that? Where was he when you lost sight of him?
A. He was... a little more than halfway down the block.
Q. Now, so I understand: This guy who ran, did you see
this guy shoot the cop or you just heard that shot?
A. I just heard the shot.
Q. Before you heard the shot you had been hearing the argument; is that
right?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. And in fact before you heard the shot and you were
listening to the argument you were walking towards the cop and this guy,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were watching the both of them as you are walking towards
them?
A. Yes.
Q. And they were continuing to argue at arm's length to each other?
A. Yeah.
Q. Before you heard the shot?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was the extent of their contact with each other?
A. Yes.
Q. They were arguing?
A. Yes.
Q. Nobody was hitting anybody, right?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Nobody was handcuffing anybody?
A. No.
Q. Nobody was putting anybody up against the car?
A. I couldn't tell.
Q. Now, you told us that there was a line of
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three cars parked on Locust Street. Closest to 13th was
the cop car, then in front of the cop car there was a cab, and then in
front of the cab there was this Volkswagen?
A. Right.
Q. Where in that line of cars were the cop and this guy who eventually
ran away?
A. Between... Between, between the cop car and the cab.
Like when the cop pulls up on a car to stop it, it leaves about maybe 4 or
5 feet in between. So if the cop got to go around the cars, so it's right
in between those two cars.
Q. And this was a typical Yellow Cab?
A. No, it was a United Cab.
Q. A United Cab?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Painted the color yellow? I didn't mean --
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now, you told us that after the first shot and
after that guy ran about half of a block when you lost sight of him, Mr.
Jamal was continuing to go across the street towards where the cop was,
right?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. And your testimony was that he was in the street when you heard that
second shot?
A. No, he was on the pavement.
Q. On the pavement?
A. Yes.
Q. On the other side of the street?
A. Yes.
Q. And at that point that you heard that second shot --
A. Yes.
Q. -- Mr. Jamal, I assume, was walking towards --
A. Towards.
Q. -- the direction where the officer was?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you define his posture as erect? He was standing?
A. Yes.
Q. And am I correct that the police officer was still in
the position the officer had been in when you had seen him fall against
the wall?
A. Yes.
Q. So he was down below him?
A. Yes.
Q. And how was the officer holding his gun?
A. Ahh, like he was pointing it.
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William Harmon
Q. Well, in what direction was he pointing it?
A. Well, I couldn't tell because Mr. Jamal was standing
in front of him. And when I heard the second shot, he obviously had to be
pointing it at Mr. Jamal because he fell.
Q. And did you hear anyone say anything when you heard that second
shot?
A. Yeah, I heard him slur some words, you know, you son of a bitch you,
you know, things like that.
Q. And who was saying that?
A. The cop.
Q. The cop was?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you hear Mr. Jamal saying anything?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Now, you then saw Mr. Jamal go where after that second shot was
fired?
A. On the ground.
Q. Where, did he fall right where he had been standing?
A. No, he fell on the car and then he fell on the ground.
Q. Which car did he fall against?
A. He fell between the cop car and the cab.
Q. And when he fell between the cop car and the
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cab, what was the last position you saw Mr. Jamal in?
Again, was he sitting upright? Was he lying flat on the ground? Was he
standing? Leaning against the cab? Leaning against the cop car? As best
you can describe, what was the position he was in?
A. He was laying on the side, holding his side (indicating).
Q. He was holding his side?
A. Yeah. I think. I'm not -- I can't, I wouldn't swear to it.
Q. When you say he was laying, was he laying up against
something or was he laying flat on the sidewalk or laying on the
street?
A. On the car. Leaning against the car.
Q. Leaning against the car. I see. And you didn't hear him say
anything?
A. No.
Q. Now, am I correct that at that point where you heard
the second shot, the only persons that you saw on that south side of
Locust Street --
A. Yes.
Q. -- east of 13th Street --
A. Yes.
Q. -- is now Mr. Jamal and the cop?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. And there is no one else there?
A. No.
Q. And you are certain of that?
A. I'm positive.
Q. Okay. In fact, the third person, or the next person
closest to the cop, with the exception of Mr. Jamal, was you?
A. Right.
Q. And there was nobody else in your field of vision?
A. I was across the street in the lot.
Q. Yes, sir. That's what I mean.
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't see anyone else out there?
A. No, I wasn't looking for nothing. Nobody.
Q. All right, so you weren't looking all over the place?
A. No, I wasn't.
Q. But you were looking where the cop was and where Mr. Jamal was?
A. Yes.
Q. And you are certain of what you saw in that area?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And there was nobody else there?
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William Harmon
A. No.
Q. Now, after that second shot you told us that Mr. Jamal
now fell up against one of the cars and was grabbing his side?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you said that a car... a car came up. Yes?
A. Yes.
Q. And you've told us, I believe, that in your estimate
that car came up about 20 seconds after you had heard a shot, right?
A. Yes, maybe it was a little, ahh, maybe I exaggerated a
little bit. It might have been two or three seconds later. As soon as
Mumia fell a car pulled up. It might have been parked on the other side of
the street and just turned it's lights on and came across. I don't know, I
wasn't paying attention. But the car stopped right beside -- behind,
beside the cop car, got out, pulled a gun out, shot the cop.
Q. All right, let me stop you for a moment. As I
understand you, the car came on Locust Street, right, it didn't turn off
13th Street?
A. No, no, no.
Q. So it came from Locust Street but you don't
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know how far up the street it had been?
A. Right.
Q. And you saw the car pull up alongside the cop car?
A. In back of it.
Q. Behind the cop car?
A. Yes.
Q. So was it blocking the intersection?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So it pulls behind the cop car?
A. Yes.
Q. And it's lights are on?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of car is it?
A. Midsize, Malibu I think. I think it was a Malibu.
Q. Do you think you know what color it was?
A. Gray.
Q. And did you say that you thought it was a two-door or four-door?
A. Two-door.
Q. And how many persons were in the car?
A. Two.
Q. Male or female?
A. Two males.
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William Harmon
Q. Black or white?
A. Black.
Q. Can you describe the driver to us?
A. No, I couldn't describe the driver at all. I wasn't
focusing on the driver, I was focusing on who got out of the car.
Q. And the person who got out of the car got out from the passenger
side?
A. Yes.
Q. And as I understand your position, the passenger side was the far
side of the car from you?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now, the person got out from the passenger side,
kept the door open, and pointed a gun in the direction of the officer?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, the officer was still up against the building?
A. Right.
Q. About what, 10 feet from this car now? 15? You tell me.
A. Maybe... ahh, like where you're sitting at.
Q. Yes.
A. Where that officer is sitting in back of you.
Q. This uniformed officer here (indicating)?
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William Harmon
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. So that the distance from the guy who got from the car --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- to the officer that he shot --
A. Right.
Q. -- was from where I am to the Sheriff?
A. Yes.
MS. FISK: Who, for the record, is in Courtroom 653
sitting at the bar, Your Honor, separating the public seating from the
attorneys' area.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. All right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it's what -- I'm not good -- 10 feet?
A. 10 feet, yeah.
Q. Okay. So from that distance of 10 feet this person who
got out from the far side of the car from you --
A. Yeah.
Q. Who had Johnny Mathis style hair?
A. Yeah.
Q. And was about five-foot-seven?
A. Right.
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William Harmon
Q. Fired a single shot?
A. Right.
Q. What was that person wearing, the part of their body you were able
to see?
A. Well, it was cold so he was wearing a black leather jacket I
think.
Q. Black leather jacket?
A. Yeah, I think it was black. I'm not sure of the color but it was a
dark, ahh, coat of some kind.
Q. And it appeared to you to be leather?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you see whether the person had anything on their head?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. He just had his hair down?
A. Yeah.
Q. Johnny Mathis style?
A. Yeah.
Q. And the hair was loose, it wasn't in a --
A. It was straight.
Q. -- ponytail? Now, after that guy shot that shot, did
that guy, the passenger in this Malibu, did he say anything when he shot
that shot?
A. He called him a son of a bitch.
Q. He seemed to be directing that to the officer?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. Other than saying -- did he just say son of a bitch?
A. No, he said you son of a bitch you. And got back in
the car and backed up. The driver backed the car up and made a right on
13th and went the wrong way on 13th Street towards Pine, I guess that is.
Pine there. Spruce.
Q. So the passenger after firing that shot got back in the car?
A. Yes.
Q. The car backs up to the other side of the intersection?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the driver made a right turn?
A. Right.
Q. Up 13th Street?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. Now, where were you during this part of the shooting?
A. I was ducked down on the side of one of the cars that was in the
lot.
Q. I have no problem with you leaning back, but move
microphone closer to you if you are going to do that, okay?
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William Harmon
A. Oh. I was ducking down behind the cars that was in the parking
lot.
Q. Do you remember what car you were ducking down behind?
A. No, no, no. My car was across the street.
Q. Now let me ask you this. Just so I understand. The
person that was arguing with the officer the first time, who fired the, or
who ran after you heard the first shot, was that person wearing a black
leather jacket?
A. I don't know, I think he had a... No, I'm not sure if
he had a black leather jacket or not. He had a jacket of some kind, I
don't know what style it was or what color it was.
Q. How did he wear his hair?
A. Ahh...
Q. Now we are talking about the first guy.
A. The first guy.
Q. Hight.
A. I think he had extensions, dreadlocks like (indicating).
Q. So it's clear to you, just so I understand, that this
second guy who came out of the passenger side of the car --
A. Yeah.
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William Harmon
Q. -- and who fired the shot, was not the same as the guy you had seen
running on Locust Street?
A. No, definitely.
Q. And am I correct that the person who was the driver of
this car is also not the guy you had seen running on Locust Street?
A. Well, I couldn't say. Because I didn't pay the driver any attention
at all.
Q. Oh, okay. Now, how far south on 13th Street did you watch this car
drive after it turned right?
A. I seen him turn left -- no, I seen him go down south, down 13th
Street until he got out of sight.
Q. I'm sorry, you saw it turn what direction?
A. It must have turned right. Because that's the only street that goes,
ahh, west.
Q. I'm sorry, I am confused, Mr. Harmon.
A. Pine Street goes west I think. 13th and Pine goes towards Broad.
Q. No, it doesn't.
A. No. Pine Street.
Q. Pine Street runs towards the Delaware River, Mr. Harmon?
A. Oh, okay. What's the next street from Locust?
Q. You tell me: You're the one who hung out at that corner so
often?
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William Harmon
A. Spruce, Spruce.
Q. Spruce is the street below Locust?
A. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's Pine Street. That's Pine after Locust.
Q. All right. That's your recollection?
A. Yeah.
Q. Mr. Harmon, after this car, after the shooter got back in this car,
the car backed up on Locust?
A. Yes.
Q. Towards Broad Street, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the car turned on 13th Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Right or left?
A. Right.
Q. After the car started travelling on 13th Street, did you see the car
turn again?
A. I didn't, I wasn't looking.
Q. Well, what were you looking at?
A. I was looking, after I seen the car pull down the
street, I said what the hell's going on here. I immediately walked over to
the restaurant, got Tina and said c'mon baby, let's get out of here.
Q. All right, now let me make, let me ask you this. Where was Mr. Jamal
at that point?
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William Harmon
A. Where was he at?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. He had, he was laying against the car.
Q. So he was still leaning up against the car?
A. Yeah.
Q. Sort of in an upright position, sort of leaning up against the car,
he wasn't on the ground?
A. Yeah, he was on the ground.
Q. Oh, he was on the ground?
A. Yes.
Q. Leaning against the car?
A. Yes.
Q. Which car?
A. Ahh... it was...
MR. WEINGLASS: Let the record show the witness is looking
at the photographs. Which he hasn't looked at before.
MS. FISK: Let the record show that they have been there
the entire time of his testimony and the Court made very clear he could
utilize them at any time.
THE WITNESS: Yeah... he was leaning on the cop car.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. The cop car. Now, after you saw this car that
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William Harmon
the shooter went back into turn right on 13th Street and drive
away?
A. Yes.
Q. Is when you turned around and went back into the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you were still, as I understand it you were still about in the
middle of the parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. When you were seeing all this?
A. Yes.
Q. So you had to walk halfway back through that parking lot?
A. Yes.
Q. Across 13th street?
A. Yes.
Q. Into the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. You had to tell Tina that the two of you were leaving?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And she asked you what it was about?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said what?
A. I told her, I said I'll tell you when we get
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William Harmon
out of here.
Q. Okay. I will tell you when we get out of here. The two of you
stopped to pay your bill?
A. Yeah, well, I paid -- well, she paid the bill.
Q. At that point when you walked in --
A. Yes.
Q. -- you picked up the check?
A. She had paid it already. She was just waiting for me to come
back.
Q. You go in, say c'mon, I'll tell you about it later?
A. Yes.
Q. The two of you walk out of the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. The two of you go up to your car?
A. Yes.
Q. Your car is parked on 13th Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Closer to Locust Street than the club was?
A. No, closer, closer to the restaurant. Right, when you
come out the restaurant door you could go right to my car.
Q. Your car's in front of the restaurant?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And she gets in your car?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. You got into your car?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you drive away north on 13th Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, at that time, as you are driving away north on
13th Street, do you see any additional police cars?
A. Yes.
Q. And where are these additional police cars that you see?
A. Coming across Locust Street, coming down Walnut
Street. Coming down 13th Street. I had to pull my car over to let them get
by.
Q. Oh, so the police car drove right past you?
A. Yeah.
Q. And that was a police car, what, coming the wrong way up 13th
Street?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Did you have your headlights on at that point?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And you pulled over and a police car passed you going the wrong
way?
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William Harmon
A. Yeah.
Q. Yes?
A. If I recall, yes.
Q. And you additionally saw police cars on Locust Street?
A. They were coming down Juniper Street. And coming down
Locust. Pulling up on the sidewalk. And parking lot. But I was gone by
then.
Q. Now, at that point, then, as you got into your car with Tina?
A. Yes.
Q. And drove north on 13th Street?
A. Yes.
Q. You were leaving the officer up against the building?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Jamal, who was leaning up against the police car?
A. Yes.
MR. WEINGLASS: Objection. The witness indicated he was on
the ground. Counsel is misstating the witness' answer.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: I think he said his body was leaning against the police
car.
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William Harmon
MR. WEINGLASS: And then he said he went on the ground.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. He was on the ground leaning against the police car; isn't that what
you said?
A. Yeah, that's what I said.
Q. That's what I thought you said. Those were the only
two people you were leaving on that section of Locust Street, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And as you and Tina drove away you knew based on what
you had seen that those were the two people who were there?
A. Yes.
Q. And the police were arriving to give them assistance?
A. Yes.
Q. Because it was clear to you that these two people needed hospital
assistance?
A. Yes.
Q. So where did you and Tina go?
A. We went to 58th and Hoffman Street, in our apartment. 1209 South
58th Street.
Q. Well, did there come a time after you and Tina
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William Harmon
left this location that you learned that the officer had been
killed?
A. Yes; my mother told me.
Q. Your mother told you?
A. Yes, the next morning.
Q. That next morning?
A. Yes.
Q. And did your mother also tell you that Mr. Jamal had been charged
with the shooting?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, I take it, Mr. Harmon, that it immediately occurred to you that
this was a terrible mistake?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew that Mr. Jamal had had nothing to do with that
shooting?
A. Yes.
Q. And that in fact he himself had been a victim of a horrible
circumstance?
A. Yes.
Q. So as soon as you heard that Mr. Jamal, this famous
person who people were delighted to listen to and happy to see on the
streets, had been charged mistakenly, you immediately called the police
and told them that they had made a horrible mistake?
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William Harmon
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Not that day?
A. No, I didn't, at all.
Q. Not the next day?
A. No.
Q. And not any day for the next 14 years; is that right?
A. No -- yes.
Q. Well, you certainly called Mr. Jamal and said to him
hey, you know, I could clear you on this, right?
A. No, because Mr. Jamal was in custody.
Q. Well, you knew Mr. Jamal's brother, didn't you?
A. I, I, I didn't know him personally. Like I said, I seen him before,
I didn't know him personally.
Q. And you knew where his business was: You told us that?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. His business was at 16th and Chestnut Streets?
A. Yes.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes.
Q. So you walked up to his brother's business and
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William Harmon
told his brother hey, I can be a witness for your brother because I was
out there that night?
A. No, I didn't say that.
Q. You didn't do that?
A. I didn't do that.
Q. Well, did you go up to his brother and his vending business and say
anything to him?
A. No, his brother wasn't around.
Q. So you went to look for his brother?
A. No, I didn't go look for him. But when you go in that
area and you don't see him, you know he's not around. Because he was there
everyday.
Q. Well, did you call your good friend Sonny Hopson?
A. Hopson, no, I didn't.
Q. And say hey, you know, your friend Jamal's being
charged and this is a big mistake and let him know to get in touch with
me, I could clear him?
A. I knew he would have found out anyway.
Q. Pardon?
A. I knew Mr. Hopson would have found out anyway like everybody else
did.
Q. You knew Mr. Hopson would have found out what?
A. That Mr. Jamal was charged with a, with a shooting. Because it was
on the news. And Sonny
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William Harmon
listens to the news.
Q. I am not talking about advising Mr. Hopson that Mr.
Jamal had been arrested, I'm talking about calling Mr. Hopson so he could
help you get in touch with Mr. Jamal or Mr. Jamal's lawyer or Mr. Jamal's
family to let them know that hey, don't forget to remind Jamal that Bippy
was out there with him right before the shooting and he should give me a
call because I saw what happened; did you do that?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. So you never notified anyone with the exception of your mother?
A. Yes.
Q. What you saw?
A. Yes.
Q. And six months went by and then the case went to trial, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were in town when that case was tried, weren't you?
A. I'm not, I'm not -- when did the trial start? I could tell you where
I was at. I'm not...
Q. Trial took place in June and July 1982.
A. Ahh, yes, I was in town.
Q. And were you aware that the case was being
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William Harmon
tried?
A. No, I wasn't.
Q. Did you have a TV set?
A. Yes, I did. Three of them.
Q. Did you have a radio?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you read the newspapers?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And did you see on any of those things that the case was currently
on trial?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. So you were aware that the case was on trial?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, did you walk yourself down to City Hall and stick your head in
and see what was going on at the trial?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Did you pick up a telephone and call an attorney or City Hall
information or a newspaper?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. And say hey, I know something about this case?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. You chose to tell no one about what you knew?
A. But my mother.
Q. Except your mother? Is that it?
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William Harmon
A. Yes. And my daughter.
Q. And your daughter?
A. Yes.
Q. Incidentally, Mr. Harmon, throughout this period, were you living in
the same place?
A. Yes.
Q. You weren't a hard guy to find, right?
A. No.
Q. So if, for example, someone contacted Sonny Hopson and
said hey, we're trying to get a hold of Bippy, do you know where he is,
Sonny Hopson knew how to find you, right?
A. Sure.
Q. Now, as I understand it, Mr. Harmon, this information
remained with you and your mother until... July 29th, 1995 (displaying)?
Is that right?
A. Yes. My mother was, she died June the 3rd, 1994. And
I've, I've felt as though it still didn't occur to me because it wasn't
nothing in the news about that then. And when I got to Mercer County, I
started hearing all these things and reading in the paper about Mumia
Abu-Jamal is going to be executed on the 17th and this and that. And I
said oh, no, he can't, this can't be done. I told a couple of the
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William Harmon
inmates up there that I promised my mother I wouldn't get
involved. He said man, your mother's dead now, so if you could help the
brother, help him. So.
Q. So as I understand it, in all those years from December 1981 until
the date of your mother's death --
A. Yes.
Q. -- in June 1994, the reason you never contacted anyone was because
your mother told you not to get involved?
A. Not -- yes, yes.
Q. And is that because, then, that you wanted to protect your mother or
not involve her?
A. Somewhat.
Q. Well, is it correct, Mr. Harmon, that you became so
well-known throughout the City for dropping bad checks that your picture
was sent to every bank in the Philadelphia area?
A. No, it's not right.
Q. That's not correct?
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William Harmon
A. No.
Q. Well, Mr. Harmon, you were in Court back in, was it
May of last year when Judge New sentenced you? Weren't you?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. And that is a sentence that you are currently serving?
A. Yes.
Q. A sentence of 33 months to 10 years?
A. Yes.
Q. And that followed a conviction for possession with intent to deliver
a controlled substance, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And at the time of sentencing, do you recall having an
opportunity to review the pre-sentence report that was prepared and that
discussed your background based on an interview with you and other items
that the pre-sentence investigator had a chance to review?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember having an opportunity to review
that with your lawyer and having the judge have an opportunity to review
that?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And am I correct that the presentence
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William Harmon
investigator in that report characterized you as someone who became so
notorious --
MR. WEINGLASS: Objection: It's hearsay. If they want to
put that investigator on the stand that is allowed. They can't read in an
out-of-court statement which is hearsay.
THE COURT: Well, I was under the impression that he read this.
MR. WEINGLASS: It is still hearsay.
THE COURT: I know that, but the question is did he read it.
MR. WEINGLASS: The objection stands, even if he read it.
THE COURT: Well, that he knew about it then.
MR. WEINGLASS: The question can be did you read the report and he could
answer. But you can't read from a report.
THE COURT: No.
MR. WEINGLASS: That was a hearsay document.
THE COURT: No, he already said he read the report with his
attorney.
MR. WEINGLASS: That's as far as it could go.
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William Harmon
MS. FISK: I will restate the question, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. Let me know, Mr. Harmon, whether you agree or disagree
with this characterization of you. From 1964 through 1977 the Defendant
was repeatedly involved with schemes involving the cashing of stolen
checks. He became so notorious at this unlawful activity that Court
records reflect that his picture was sent to every bank in the
Philadelphia area.
A. That's the first time I heard that.
Q. Did you read the pre-sentence report before you were sentenced by
Judge New?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Oh, you didn't?
A. No.
Q. Just a minute ago I asked you if you read it and you said you did,
didn't you?
A. I read what the pre-sentence investigator told me what
was going to happen to me. He told me I was going to get six months.
Q. Pre-sentence investigator did?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that person who told you that?
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William Harmon
A. I have no idea. And I end up with 33 months.
Q. You ended up with a mitigated-range sentence, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. And the pre-sentence investigator told you
nevertheless that even though the guidelines called for a mitigated-range
sentence of 31 to 36 months, that you were going to get six months?
A. He told me I would get six months in-house arrest for one year.
Q. Was that on the day you received sentence that that pre-sentence
investigator told you that?
A. No, that was March. That was March.
Q. Right after your conviction?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell your lawyer that your pre-sentence investigator had
told you that?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, as I understand it, following that conviction in
March 1994, you did file a Post-Conviction Relief Act petition?
A. Yes.
Q. And you filed initially a pro se petition?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have a copy of that with you today?
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William Harmon
A. No, I don't.
Q. Now, that petition, as I understand it, was assigned to an
attorney?
A. Yes.
Q. And that attorney was, you told us...?
A. Joseph...
Q. I think you told us his name is Joseph Capone?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, did you have an opportunity to meet with Mr. Capone?
A. No.
Q. He just sent you some letters?
A. Yes, sir. Letters.
Q. And were the letters letters that indicated to you or
said to you that he could find no basis for you getting a new trial?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, when did you receive those?
A. All last year. Umm... From October of seven -- I mean
of ninety, ahh, four. Until, ahh, a couple of months ago. The last letter
that I received he sent me a Finlan -- Finley letter, is it?
THE COURT: Finley.
THE WITNESS: Finley.
THE COURT: Is that what he said?
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William Harmon
THE WITNESS: Yes, he sent me a Finley letter. Is that correct?
THE COURT: That's the term they use.
THE WITNESS: Well, he sent me a letter and told me I was
denied, he didn't have any grounds. My lawyer was incompetent. I mean he
was, ahh, he was straight, he knew what he was talking about. I didn't
have any grounds to file.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. And is that the letter that you received last October?
A. No, that was the one I received in June.
Q. In June?
A. Yes. This year.
Q. All right. So you didn't receive that letter in July of this
year?
A. No.
Q. Now, after you received that letter, I understand it you wrote a
letter back; is that right?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. So if in that letter you said that you received the
attorney's letter on July 1st you would have been wrong; is that
right?
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. You didn't receive it July lst?
THE COURT: Do you have it there?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: Look at it.
THE WITNESS: I wrote, I wrote this back to my lawyer the 29th of
July.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. Right. And you see where it says I received your letter on July
lst?
A. Oh, yeah. I received your letter on July 1st.
Q. Well, did you receive it on July 1st or did you receive it in
June?
A. I received it July 1st.
Q. All right, so when you said you received it in June you were
mistaken?
A. Where does it...?
Q. You just told us?
A. It says on the letter here July 29th, 1995. And it says here I
received your letter on July 1st.
Q. Yes.
A. The letter, the Finley letter.
Q. So that's when you received it?
A. I received.
Q. Okay?
A. Okay.
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William Harmon
Q. And you also say in that letter to him that the only
thing that was untrue in the case history was the police officer said they
had a warrant which they never had?
A. Right.
Q. And my mother nor I signed our names on a warrant. You know why.
Because they never had one?
A. Yes.
Q. That is because it is your position, sir, that the police lied on
you in your trial, is that it?
A. Yes.
Q. Because the police at your trial said that drugs were
being sold out of the house that you and your Mom shared, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was the evidence at trial, right?
A. Yes.
Q. That drugs were being sold in front of your infirm mother?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was in a wheelchair?
A. Yes.
Q. And of course that wasn't true?
A. What?
Q. That drugs were being sold in front of your
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William Harmon
infirm mother?
A. No.
Q. Who was confined to a wheelchair?
A. No.
Q. Because you would certainly never allow drugs to be sold in front of
your infirm mother, right?
A. Of course.
Q. You wouldn't even let your mother be involved with
this case by reporting the fact that you had seen a murder to the police,
right?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. So the verdict of the court in that case was completely incorrect;
is that right?
A. Incorrect.
Q. Completely?
A. Completely.
Q. But nevertheless, you advised your attorney to tell
the defense attorneys that you wanted to share the information now that
you have?
A. Yes.
Q. That you have given us today?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know somebody named Vincent Silaberti?
A. No.
Q. No?
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William Harmon
A. Vincent Silaberti?
Q. Yes.
A. Vincent Silaberti... no.
Q. A cop?
A. Oh, Vinny. Yeah. Yes, I do know.
Q. And how about somebody named Gene Geary?
A. I knew -- yeah, I knew Gene.
Q. Tell us how you know Vinny and Gene?
A. Ha-ha, oh... well, they were the first officers that arrested
me.
Q. Way back in 1961?
A. No, not '61.
Q. Earlier?
A. No. '65.
Q. '65?
A. Yeah.
Q. But that wasn't the only time you ever met them, when
they were the first cops who arrested you back in '65, right?
A. As I can recall, yes.
Q. The only time you ever came in contact with them?
A. I mean several times after that, I mean. They arrested me a few
times.
Q. They were the check squad up in West
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William Harmon
Detectives, weren't they?
A. Okay, yes, yes, ma'am.
Q. They investigated bad checks?
A. Yes.
Q. Fraudulent checks?
A. Yes.
Q. That was something you knew a lot about, right?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. And wouldn't it be correct to say that throughout the
sixties and throughout the seventies into the mid-seventies you would
regularly give them information about bad check schemes that were going on
in their district?
A. Yes.
Q. Isn't that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You worked as an informant for them, didn't you?
A. No.
Q. You gave them information?
A. I told them -- ahh, they would ask me about different
things in the area. And I would tell them what I knew. But I didn't
inform, inform them of any information.
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William Harmon
Q. And sometimes you would give them that, tell them what
you knew by coming up to West Detectives and asking for them and going up
into a room in West Detectives and talk to them, wouldn't you?
A. No, after they came and got me. I never volunteered to went up
there.
Q. You never just walked into West Detectives and asked for them?
A. No, no, no, no, no.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. I'm positive.
Q. But you did provide them with information throughout
the seventies, maybe up as late as '78, about check cashing schemes that
were going on, right?
A. Well, from 1970 when I get out of jail, until '78, I
had a dancing school. My own dancing school. So I wasn't doing anything
wrong.
Q. Is that the dancing school that you folded and took everybody's
money and went out west with?
A. No, that was dancing school I had at 52nd and Spruce Street. And it
was still standing.
Q. This was a dancing school that you opened and took
money from people and then ran out west with the money; isn't that right,
Mr. Harmon?
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William Harmon
A. No, no, that's not right.
Q. You never did that?
A. No.
Q. Am I correct that from '71 through the seventies was
when you provided what you knew to Detectives Silaberti and Geary about
check cashing schemes?
A. Hmm-hmm, yes.
Q. Nothing bad ever happened to you when you gave them what you knew,
right?
A. No.
Q. Incidentally, on this morning of December 9th, 1981, had you been
drinking that night?
A. No.
Q. Were you high?
A. I don't drink.
Q. Oh, okay. Do you use drugs?
A. I didn't do drugs either. Then.
Q. In the period from 1979 through 1985, would it be fair to say that
you smoked cocaine?
A. No, it wouldn't be fair. No, it wouldn't be fair.
Q. It wouldn't be fair?
A. No.
Q. When you were placed on probation by the
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William Harmon
Federal Court for your mail fraud conviction in 1977,
wasn't it an order of your probation that you receive treatment for your
compulsive disorders?
A. No.
Q That was never a condition of your probation?
A. Never, never.
Q. So if I brought in that Federal probation file and it
showed that you were sent to clinical therapy for compulsive disorders and
that you were resistant to the clinical therapy programs, that would be
completely incorrect?
A. Incorrect.
Q. And if the pre-sentence reports that have been
prepared on you last year reflect that you had a past history of using
cocaine, those would be completely incorrect?
A. No.
MR. WEINGLASS: Objection: Hearsay.
THE WITNESS: They would be right.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. Well, when did you use cocaine?
A. Umm, I stopped using -- I started in '81, '82, and I stopped in '85.
I started back up in '87.
Q. Do you remember meeting Mr. William Strum, the pre-sentence
investigator who interviewed you
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William Harmon
following your conviction before Judge New?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you meet with him on the day of your conviction?
A. Yes.
Q. And he interviewed you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell him that you smoked cocaine from 1979 until 1985 but
never had an addiction problem?
A. I didn't, I don't, I don't remember the dates. But I did tell him
that I was a smoker.
Q. My question is: Did you tell him that you smoked
cocaine from 1979 until 1985 but never had an addiction problem?
A. My answer is no.
Q. You didn't tell him that?
A. No.
Q. So if he wrote that down he was wrong?
A. Yes.
Q. But you did tell him that you don't drink any alcohol?
A. Right.
Q. Because that's correct?
A. Right.
Q. Who is Dyon Anderson, Mr. Harmon? D-Y-O-N
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William Harmon
Anderson, a 45-year-old female.
A. Diane Anderson.
Q. Oh, I'm sorry, I mispronounced it. Yes, sir, Diane Anderson?
A. Who is she?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. One of my female friends.
Q. And how long has she been one of your female friends?
A. Since the seventies.
Q. And since the seventies have you had occasion to visit her?
A. No.
Q. Never been to her home?
A. No.
Q. Do you know where she lives?
A. No.
Q. Would it surprise you to learn that she lives on the
700 block of North 8th Street, about four or five blocks away from Mr.
Jamal's family home?
A. No, it wouldn't surprise me.
Q. Because you have never been to her home?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever been to Mr. Jamal's home?
A. No.
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William Harmon
Q. Mr. Harmon, in addition to giving information to
Detectives Silaberti and Geary in that period in the seventies, what other
police officers or Federal agents have you shared information with in the
past?
A. The Federal police, I don't recall their names. But I
told them that I had information of the kidnap, the kidnaper that... that
was killing them kids in Atlanta.
Q. You were able to give them information?
A. No, he asked me, that's the information he asked me about.
Q. And were you able to give him information about that?
A. No, I couldn't. He showed me pictures of certain individuals, I
didn't --
Q. And when was that, that he was showing you those
pictures and you were trying to help him with that information?
A. Yeah.
Q. When was that?
A. I guess back in the late seventies.
Q. I take it nothing bad ever happened to you when you spoke to that
Federal agent; is that right?
A. No.
Q. Yet despite all of those past relationships
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William Harmon
with police officers, and despite the fact that your
mother was aware that you had been convicted in excess of ten times for
bad things that you yourself had done --
A. Hmm-hmm.
Q. -- in order to protect your mother, you decided never
to tell any police officer or defense personnel about what you saw on
December 9th, 1981; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you're making it up
today; is that right?
A. No.
Q. Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you're
in it for the quick buck once again, would it, Mr. Harmon?
A. I haven't been offered nothing.
Q. You're getting out of jail in what, 18 months?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you got a job lined up?
A. I don't know.
Q. And in fact now your mother is deceased, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So you don't have that apartment available to
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you, do you, sir?
A. No.
Q. Now, this guy that you saw get out of the car and fire the shot?
A. Yes.
Q. You know that is the guy --
A. Yes.
Q. -- that fired the second shot in the officer: You told
us today that other than being a black man with Johnny Mathis hair, you
can't describe him further; is that right?
A. Nah. Brown skin fellow. Medium built.
Q. Medium built. And his height?
A. I couldn't tell the exact height because it was on the other side of
the car.
Q. Right, because you didn't have a good perspective, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Now, this affidavit that you wrote, Mr. Harmon, (displaying), when
did you write this?
A. Last Thursday.
Q. Was it while Miss Wolkenstein was visiting you or was it before she
came or after she left?
A. While she was visiting me.
Q. While she was there?
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William Harmon
A. (Witness nodded head affirmatively.)
Q. So while she was there and after the two of you had an
opportunity to talk you wrote this in her presence?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you give a copy of it to her at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. So when she left the prison facility last August the
3rd, to the best of your knowledge, Miss Wolkenstein had -- what was it, a
copy or the original of this affidavit, which has been marked Commonwealth
-- I'm sorry -- Defense Exhibit 28?
A. She had a copy of it.
Q. Or did she have the original, that's what I am asking you?
A. I think she had the original.
Q. You gave her the original?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was on August the 3rd?
A. Yes.
Q. Last week? And you told us that because there was no
notary public available when you and she were talking --
A. Yes.
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William Harmon
Q. -- that you signed this without benefit of a notary public?
A. Yes.
Q. Miss Wolkenstein didn't offer to tell you that she was a notary
public?
A. No, she didn't.
Q. Did you ask her?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Did you tell her you needed a notary public for it?
A. Yes --
Q. Did she tell you you needed a notary public?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you told us today that other than this man who
was the shooter being a brown-skinned man with Johnny Mathis style hair,
shoulder length, with a jacket which you think is leather --
A. Hmm-hmm.
Q. -- and may be black, he came out of the car, that you can't describe
him further, right?
A. No.
Q. Yet last week on August the 3rd, am I correct in the
middle of the second page you described him as a black man, tall and
medium built with shoulder-length hair?
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William Harmon
A. Well, anybody who is taller than me is tall.
Q So you described him last week as tall?
A. I told him that he was taller than I was.
Q. Well, is this written in your handwriting or Miss
Wolkenstein's handwriting? I am talking about this affidavit. This
handwritten document.
A. What part?
Q. Well, my first question is who wrote this out, you or Miss
Wolkenstein?
A. Miss Wolkenstein.
Q. Turn to the second page. Well, let me ask you this,
Mr. Harmon, before we talk about the second page. After Miss Wolkenstein
wrote this out, did you read it fully?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And did you make sure that it was correct?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And was it after you read it fully and made sure that
it was correct that you placed your signature on the bottom?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, do you see in the middle of that second page the
fourth full paragraph that begins a black man, tall and medium built with
shoulder-length hair?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. It doesn't say taller than me, does it?
A. No, it doesn't.
Q. It just refers to him as tall?
A. Yes.
Q. And is that how you described him last week?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Yet today you told us that you couldn't describe his
height at all because he was on the other side of the car; is that
right?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, when you drove away, sir, you told us today that
as you drove away the only people you were leaving back there was Mr.
Jamal and the officer, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Nobody else was out there that you saw, right?
A. That I saw.
Q. Right, yet do you see here two paragraphs down on this affidavit
--
THE COURT: Is that the same page for him?
MS. FISK: Same page, two paragraphs
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William Harmon
down.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. You already talked about the black man doing the
shooting and the car going the wrong way, and then the paragraph says
during this time people were coming on the street from the clubs,
restaurants and parking lots. Do you see that, Mr. Harmon?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, which was it: Were people coming on the street
from the clubs, restaurants and parking lots, or was Mr. Jamal and the
officer the only two people back there?
A. After the shootin'?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. After the shootin' people started coming out of the
building then. It wasn't nobody out there during the shooting.
Q. Mr. Harmon, were you here about 30 seconds ago?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. When I asked you whether as you were pulling away the
only two people you left back there were Mr. Jamal and the officer, did
you hear me ask that
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William Harmon
question?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Was my question confusing to you, sir?
A. No, it wasn't.
Q. Did you understand my question?
A. No, I understood it.
Q. And when I asked that question and you understood it,
did you agree that the only two people who were back there were Mr. Jamal
and the officer?
A. From what I saw.
Q. So you didn't see anybody else, right?
A. After that, no, after -- I got in my car and started
driving off I didn't see anybody. But when I got to the corner I started
seeing people coming out of the clubs and bar and, ahh, the
restaurant.
Q. When you got to which corner?
A. Just before I got to Walnut Street.
Q. So the people that were coming out of the clubs were coming out
clubs on Walnut Street?
A. No, no, no, no. They were coming out of the, coming
out of Whispers, the restaurant, ahh... it was... it's a sleazy little
topless bar there on, right next to between Whispers and the restaurant.
And, ahh, when I got to Walnut Street, you know, I looked in my mirror and
I see, you know, a crowd of
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William Harmon
people. It must have been time to let out.
Q. Now, Mr. Harmon, I understand that you had an
opportunity this morning to speak to defense Counsel; isn't that
right?
A. No.
Q. That's not right?
A. What, what did you say?
Q. I understand that you had an opportunity to, this morning --
A. Yes.
Q. -- to meet with defense Counsel?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, are you aware, sir -- well, let me ask you this.
Did you, and as I understand it, you asked the defense attorney if you
could review the photographs that were taken of the crime scene?
A. Yes.
Q. Am I correct, sir, that the reason, or one of the
reasons that you wanted to look at those photographs was because you told
the defense attorney that you might be able to see a picture of your car
in those pictures?
A. Yes.
Q. Now let me ask you this, Mr. Harmon. If within 10 seconds or 15 or
20 of the police officer
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William Harmon
and Mr. Jamal being shot you drove your car away on 13th
Street and ended up in West Philly, how could a picture of your car end up
in any photos taken of that crime scene?
A. Because I have two cars.
Q. Oh. And what do you do, you have one foot on each gas
pedal as you drive into the neighborhood (indicating)?
A. No, I don't.
Q. You just keep one parked down there?
A. Sometimes.
Q. Which car is it that you keep parked down there?
A. The Cadillac.
Q. What kind of Cadillac?
A. I got a, I had a '74 Coupe DeVille Cadillac. Yellow.
Q. And you let that sit parked there while you drove -- what was this
car you were driving?
A. A Buick.
Q. -- while you drove a Buick around?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it too much mileage on the Coupe DeVille?
A. No. I keep the car parked in that parking lot sometime. Just in case
I wanted to change up while I
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William Harmon
was in town.
Q. How would you get to town?
A. I drove one car.
Q. All right. So if you had one car that you were driving
around you still needed to have a second car parked in that parking lot
with your stuff?
A. Oh, I had, well, I had my buddy with me sometime and he drove one
down.
Q. Well, let me ask you this. Do you see your yellow
Coupe DeVille in the parking lot in any of the photos?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Do you remember the tag of that car?
A. My Cadillac?
Q. Yes, sir, your Cadillac?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Who was it registered to?
A. Me. William Harmon.
Q. As you sit here now do you remember whether or not
that Cadillac was parked in the parking lot that morning?
A. No, I don't. No.
MS. FISK: May I have a moment, Your Honor. Thank you.
(Discussion was held off the record at
this time among
Commonwealth Counsel.)
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William Harmon
BY MS. FISK:
Q. Mr. Harmon?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you see the gentleman, the gentleman right here (indicating)?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know that gentleman?
A. No, I don't.
Q. You never saw him before in your life?
A. He looks familiar.
Q. If I were to suggest to you that his name is Charles
Brown and that he was also a detective at West Detectives in the
seventies, would that help refresh your recollection as to who he is?
A. Not really.
Q. Not really?
A. No.
MS. FISK: I have no further questions, Your Honor.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Mr. Harmon, are you a little tired?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. I won't be long with you. Your record has been read here?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. Quite lengthy. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. In 1969 when you were last in prison you were about 26 years old, as
I recall?
A. Hmm-hmm.
Q. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And from the time that you were 26 years old until the
time that you were about 50 years old, you stayed out of prison?
A. Yes.
Q. After that first experience you didn't want to be back in
prison?
A. Yes.
Q. And I assume you're not enjoying your time in prison now?
A. No.
Q. And I assume you understand that coming to this Court
and testifying about Mr. Jamal's innocence is going to make the rest of
your stay in prison pretty miserable?
A. Yes.
MS. FISK: Objection, Your Honor. Objection, Your Honor. It might be
quite the
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William Harmon
opposite in fact.
THE COURT: Yes, I don't know that we could make that assumption.
MR. WEINGLASS: I'm asking the witness if it's his assumption.
THE COURT: Oh. I don't know what he is going to base it on. But that's
all right.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Let me ask you this, Mr. Harmon. Are you testifying
here today so that your life in prison will be a better one, or do you
think testifying here today will make your life in prison pretty
miserable?
A. I can't answer because I don't know what's ahead of me.
Q. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. You were giving
information to the police when they asked you; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You gave information to Federal agents when they asked you; is that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. You have nothing against police, do you?
A. No.
Q. You have nothing against Federal agents, do you?
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William Harmon
A. No.
Q. And you were in part cooperating with the police and
the Federal agents as a way of staying out of prison, were you not?
A. Yes. You could say, I guess.
Q. So you were trying your best to stay out of prison from --
A. Yes.
Q. -- from the time you were 26 until you were 50?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know when for sure you'll be getting out of prison now?
A. After this, I don't know.
Q. Why, do you think this might extend your stay?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you're testifying for Mr. Jamal?
A. Yes.
Q. You think you might have to be in prison longer?
A. Yes.
Q. So your appearing here today is going to hurt you, is it not?
A. Yes.
MS. FISK: Objection, Your Honor.
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William Harmon
That's what he thinks. Not whether he will.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. You think it will hurt you?
A. Yes.
Q. So what's in it for you?
A. I can sleep better at night now, knowing that I came forward and
said to what I thought happened.
Q. No matter what your record is with respect to receiving money or
larceny, you have a conscience?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. And that's why you're testifying?
A. Yes.
Q. When you gave information to the police or to the Federal agents,
did they accept your information?
MS. FISK: Objection, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: No.
MS. FISK: Withdraw the objection.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Did they come back to you more than once?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they come back to you over a period of months?
A. Hmm, no, after the first couple of times they found
out what I was telling them wasn't getting them no where, they just
forgot.
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William Harmon
Q. Okay. Have you and I had a chance to review your prior
criminal record, the way it was laid out here in Court today?
A. Yes.
Q. We haven't talked about your record this morning, did we?
A. No.
Q. To your knowledge, to your knowledge did Billy Cook know that you
were there that night?
MS. FISK: Objection, Your Honor. There's no testimony
from this witness that Billy Cook was there that night.
MR. WEINGLASS: Right. I will accept that stipulation.
MS. FISK: It is not his stipulation, that is the witness'
testimony. He saw Mr. Jamal and the cop, nobody else. It's clear that Mr.
Jamal knew he was there that night, though.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Why didn't you go to Mr. Jamal's brother?
A. What was that?
Q. Why didn't you go to Billy Cook and tell him what you saw?
A. Well, to tell the truth, I didn't know what to
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William Harmon
do after I seen all that. I was downtown, illegally
downtown with two prostitutes. And I really didn't want to... ahh, be
questioned about what I'm doing or where I'm at, you know, I didn't need
all that.
Q. You didn't want to get involved in this case?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did your best to keep from getting involved?
A. Yes.
Q. That red Malibu, that two-door, red Malibu, do you
recall telling me this morning that you had seen that car around that area
for some time?
A. I've seen it be, I've seen it before in the area.
Q. And do you recall telling me that you thought it was involved in
some kind of pimping operation?
A. Yes.
Q. When you saw the passenger get out of that car, was he
moving towards the police officer when he shot at the police officer?
A. No.
Q. What was he doing?
A. He just got out the car and pointed the gun towards the officer and
shot.
Q. He was standing on the sidewalk at that point?
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William Harmon
A. Yes.
Q. And his arm was extended?
A. Extended.
Q. Would you take a look at the photographs of the cars on Locust
--
MS. FISK: Objection, Your Honor. The photographs were
never referred to on cross-examination. This is beyond the scope.
MR. WEINGLASS: The witness did refer to photographs in
cross-examination. As a matter of fact, the Court noted it.
THE COURT: I noted what?
MR. WEINGLASS: That the witness had referred to photographs on
cross-examination.
THE COURT: I don't remember noting anything, but.
BY MR. WEINGLASS:
Q. Now that you see the photographs, does that in any way
refresh your recollection about the order of the cars that were on the
south side of Locust Street that night?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the order of the cars, going from the
intersection of 13th and Locust heading east towards 12th?
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William Harmon
A. A police car, a Volkswagen. And I think this is... A Ford.
Q. And in that order going east towards 12th?
A Yes, yes.
Q. Was there anything behind the police car towards the intersection of
13th in those photographs?
A. Behind the police car?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. And looking at those photographs, does that refresh
your recollection of what you saw when you were in the parking lot looking
south towards Locust?
A. Yes.
MR. WEINGLASS: Thank you. I have nothing further.
MS. FISK: I've got a couple more questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. Just so I understand, Mr. Harmon: Before you began answering any
questions today --
A. Yes.
Q. -- His Honor gave you a pile of photographs to look at; isn't that
right?
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William Harmon
A. Yes, yes.
Q. And you will recall that in fact Mr. Weinglass said
when you were done looking at those photos that you had spent, you had
spent 14 minutes?
A. Yes.
Q. Looking at those photos and you had gone through each of them
twice?
A. Yes.
Q. And you had as much time as you needed to look at all
those photos and refresh your recollection as to what that corner looked
like; am I correct?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. And your recollection was fully refreshed when you
started answering questions about what that scene looked like; is that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, am I correct that having had that opportunity
this morning to look at those photographs -- I'm sorry.
MR. WEINGLASS: That was this afternoon.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. This afternoon when you took the witness stand, plus
your own recollection of the events, that when you started answering the
questions today, you
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William Harmon
were doing so based both on your recollection and as it
was refreshed by photographs that you had had 14 minutes to look at?
A. Yes.
Q. And am I correct, sir, that having had that
opportunity and that review, when I was asking you questions about the
vehicles that you saw on Locust Street, that you were absolutely certain
and there was no doubt in your mind that you saw a police car nearest the
corner and in front of the police car you saw a, in fact a United Cab, not
a Yellow Cab?
A. Yes.
Q. And in fact in front of that cab you saw the Volkswagen?
A. Yes, right.
Q. And is that how you recall it still?
A. I -- yes. I...
Q. Mr. Harmon, do you understand my question?
MR. WEINGLASS: Objection.
THE WITNESS: Yes, yes.
MR. WEINGLASS: The witness has to be given an opportunity to answer
that question.
THE WITNESS: I see a cop car, the Volkswagen, and a cab.
BY MS. FISK:
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William Harmon
Q. Right. In your testimony on cross-examination, do you
recall saying -- and this was after you had the chance to look at these
same pictures in which you see what you told us you see -- do you recall
telling His Honor that you saw a cop car, a cab, and a Volkswagen?
A. Yes. I do remember seeing the opposite, the other.
Q. And that's how you remembered it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that recollection is as clear in your mind as
everything else you recollect about that morning back on December 9th,
1981; isn't that right, Mr. Harmon?
A. No.
Q. Oh, it's not?
A. No.
Q. There are other things that are clearer than that, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. I would take it, then, that what is clearer than that
was the fact that as you look at that corner and the officer is against
the wall and Mr. Jamal is up against the car, that there is nobody else on
that side of Locust Street, that's equally
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William Harmon
clear in your mind; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You were just asked about your working hard to stay out of prison
after you got out in 1969, right?
A. '70.
Q. You got out in 1970?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you were arrested many times between 1970 and now, right?
A. Well, no -- yeah, okay.
Q. Isn't that right?
A. Then it didn't occur or nothing.
Q. You received probation for all those convictions in the
seventies?
A. Yeah.
Q. But when you were arrested you didn't know you were going to get
probation, right?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, even when you were arrested in 1982, a case
that didn't result in a conviction, there was a chance you would go to
jail, right?
A. '82?
Q. Yes, sir. Do you remember being arrested in 1982?
A. No.
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William Harmon
Q. You don't?
A. No.
Q. If the Court records reflect that you were arrested on August llth,
1982, they would be incorrect?
A. Where?
Q. In Philadelphia.
A. For what?
Q. For promoting prostitution.
A. That would have been incorrect.
Q. You were never arrested and charged with that?
A. Yeah, I was charged with it, yeah.
Q. I said arrested, sir, I am just talking about being arrested. When
--
MR. WEINGLASS: It was dismissed for lack of evidence.
MS. FISK: That is correct, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: I know.
BY MS. FISK:
Q. But when you were arrested in 1982, even there there
was a chance that you would go to jail because you were being arrested and
charged with a criminal offense again, right?
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William Harmon
A. Not really.
Q. No?
A. No.
Q. You figured you'd never go to jail?
A. No, not for prostitution, no.
Q. Well, when you were arrested in 1975 -- I'm sorry,
strike that. When you were arrested in 1989, again in a case which
resulted in charges being dismissed or discharged, but when you were
arrested, you knew you faced the possibility of going to jail, right?
A. No.
Q. No. When you were arrested in 1993 and charged with
these drug offenses, you knew you faced the possibility of going to jail,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew you had something to trade, right?
A. No.
Q. You had the information which solved one of the most
famous murder trials in the City of Philadelphia, didn't you?
A. But I didn't realize I had that until two weeks ago
when I read it in the paper, you know. I wasn't using that to trade for
nothing because if I
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William Harmon
did I would have used it before I went to Court --
Q. Because you would have used it if you had it, right?
A. If -- not really. I wanted to help the brother out.
And it didn't make any difference to me at the time what I had to do to do
it. My mother's passed, she can't chastise me. So I figure I should help
him, come forward.
MS. FISK: Thank you, sir. I have nothing further, Your Honor.
(Discussion was held off the record at
this time
between defense Counsel.
MR. WEINGLASS: Thank you, Mr. Harmon. I have no further questions.
THE COURT: Anything further today, gentlemen?
MR. WILLIAMS: Your Honor, there is one other matter.
Regarding the August 7th letter to the Court where we attached numerous
exhibits, in particular Xerox cases pursuant to Your Honor's directive, we
now ask the Court, for our own scheduling purposes, if Your Honor's
reconsidering any of the rulings that are addressed?
THE COURT: Well, what rulings are you
Page 174.
talking about?
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, for example --
THE COURT: Be specific. What do you want?
MR. WILLIAMS: For example, in the letter we ask that we
be permitted to call numerous police officers concerning the confession.
In particular, Police Officer Bell, Heftner, Hinkel, Cook, Dunn, Captain
Bob, Security Guard Kenney. The nurse.
THE COURT: Were they the ones that testified at the trial?
MR. WILLIAMS: Ahh, well, I know that Mr. Bell, Officer Bell testified
at the trial.
THE COURT: Security guard testified.
MR. WILLIAMS: But not Security Guard Kenney. I believe that was
Security Guard Durham.
THE COURT: Well, who is Kenney?
MR. WILLIAMS: He was another security guard at Jefferson Hospital.
THE COURT: Well, he may have but what does he have to do with this
case?
MR. WILLIAMS: It is all fully addressed in the letter.
Page 175.
THE COURT: I know the letter. What did you give the D.A.
as to -- did you get an affidavit from him or anything?
MR. WILLIAMS: No, there are police reports. They know
full well what Mr. Kenney would testify to. I would expect that he would
testify in conformity to his police reports. And that's why we would like
to call him.
MS. FISK: I'm sorry, Your Honor, these are all witnesses
that we objected to their being called when it was suggested by defense
Counsel because none of these witnesses are witnesses about whom Mr.
Jackson was asked a basis for not calling.
THE COURT: Right.
MS. FISK: Our position was, without any explanation from
Mr. Jackson, Counsel at this juncture has no right to call them.
THE COURT: Do you want to call Mr. Jackson back again?
MR. WILLIAMS: No, we do not. We should do that, but I did
address that point in the letter. If Your Honor will recall.
THE COURT: If you want to call Jackson back again call him.
Page 176.
MR. WILLIAMS: So Your Honor is denying our application?
THE COURT: What I have done before I've done.
MR. WILLIAMS: And what about the rest of the witnesses addressed in
that witness letter?
THE COURT: Anything I have done before I have done. I see
no reason why I should change any ruling I have made.
MR. WILLIAMS: In light of the August 7th letter.
THE COURT: I said whatever I have ruled on I have ruled. And you have
an exception.
MR. WILLIAMS: That's all I am asking: If you have reconsidered your
ruling.
THE COURT: Why would I have second guesses about my ruling? I wouldn't
have made it in the first place.
MR. WILLIAMS: Your Honor asked for case law. We provided that case
law.
THE COURT: Yes, I know.
MR. WILLIAMS: So I am only here asking Your Honor if in light of the
case law --
Page 177.
THE COURT: I changed my opinion?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
THE COURT: No, it hasn't changed my opinion.
MR. WILLIAMS: Very well.
THE COURT: Do you have any other witnesses?
MR. WILLIAMS: I don't think we have any other witnesses today. But let
me confer with my Co-counsel.
(Discussion held off the record among
defense Counsel
at this time.)
MR. WILLIAMS: No other witnesses today.
THE COURT: All right, do you have a list of witnesses for tomorrow?
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Your Honor, there are two other matters.
THE COURT: No other matters. I want to know, do you have
a list of witnesses for tomorrow? So you could give it to the D.A. so we
don't lose anymore time. If there are no witnesses for tomorrow we could
take up whatever you want to discuss tomorrow.
MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We will take it all
Page 178.
up tomorrow, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay, do you have any idea of any witnesses?
MR. WEINGLASS: We will inform the District Attorney's Office.
MS. FISK: Well, Your Honor, the Commonwealth --
THE COURT: I had asked you for a list long ago and I would like to know
where we are going.
MS. FISK: I had also advised the Court that the
Commonwealth at some point when Defense rests will be prepared to rebut
some witnesses raised in these proceedings. Some of those witnesses are
not police officers, and it is inconvenient to keep them in Court. So I
would like some indication as to when the defense will be completed with
it's presentation of witnesses so I will know when to have those
Commonwealth witnesses available to Court.
THE COURT: Yes, I would like to know where we are going
too. By the way, are you going to call the Defendant? Or his brother?
MR. WILLIAMS: Umm, Your Honor, we don't intend to call any further
witnesses. All
Page 179.
we would ask is a witness list, if it's in any way
altered from the witness list that we've already received. As well as
affidavits from those witnesses.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. FISK: Your Honor, if defense has no intention of calling any
additional witnesses --
MR. WILLIAMS: Well.
THE COURT: She doesn't want to put on her case until you say you have
no more witnesses.
MS. FISK: I thought he just did say that.
MR. WILLIAMS: I may have misspoke.
MS. FISK: I will sit down.
THE COURT: You may call the Defendant?
MR. WILLIAMS: Your Honor, I didn't say that. I didn't say that.
THE COURT: Okay. How about his brother?
MR. WILLIAMS: We have no intention of calling Billy Cook to the
stand.
THE COURT: Okay. Then why don't you
Page 180.
let me know tomorrow what you intend to do so I could then advise the
D.A.
MR. WILLIAMS: Tomorrow, that's what I was referring to.
THE COURT: That's what I say, tomorrow you will let me know.
MR. WILLIAMS: Tomorrow we will not be calling any defense
witnesses.
THE COURT: Tomorrow you will let me know if you have no
more witnesses at all. And then I will give her a chance to prepare her
list and get it over to you. We will do that on Monday.
MS. FISK: So the Commonwealth is not expected to have any
witnesses available tomorrow; is that correct?
THE COURT: Well, I don't know. Are you saying that you want them to
have witnesses for tomorrow?
(Discussion was held off the record at
this time
between defense Counsel.)
MS. FISK: That's precisely what I was driving at.
THE COURT: Oh, you want her to get a list for tomorrow?
Page 181.
MR. WILLIAMS: If they could produce witnesses for tomorrow it might be
a good way to use up the day.
THE COURT: I only have one question: You are not going to call the
Defendant?
MR. WILLIAMS: I have already indicated.
THE COURT: I know that, but I would like to hear from the
Defendant.
MR. WILLIAMS: I don't believe that that's required, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, I don't know, I don't want to have a second PCRA
hearing.
MS. FISK: That was going to be my request, that at some
time, Your Honor -- and I will make that request at the appropriate time
when the defense indicates it is calling no further witnesses -- I would
make the request on the record to establish that that is in fact --
THE COURT: I want a colloquy to make sure that the
Defendant understands that he has a right to take the stand if he wishes
and he also has a right not to. All I want to know is whether this is his
wish. Because I don't want to get another, second PCRA against you
Page 182.
gentlemen from New York accusing you of preventing him from taking the
stand.
MS. FISK: I would also ask, Your Honor, to place on the
record -- with the exception of those witnesses whom the defense offered
whose subpoenas were quashed who were in the Courtroom and not permitted
to testify -- I would ask whether there were any additional witnesses who
they are not calling and if they are not calling them that it is as a
result of an intentional, strategic decision and for no other basis?
THE COURT: Do you want to think about it until tomorrow?
MR. WILLIAMS: Let's bring it up tomorrow.
THE COURT: Okay, let's think about it until tomorrow. Okay, adjourn
until tomorrow.
THE COURT OFFICER: Court stands adjourned until 9:30.
(The hearing was adjourned for the day at this time.)
Page 183.
I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are
contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on the trial of
the above cause, and that this copy is a correct transcript of the
same.
Official Stenographer
Date
The foregoing record of the proceedings upon the trial of
the above cause is hereby approved and directed to be filed.
Judge